I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics
technician and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios
from the 30s and 40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but many
of the cabinets were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf. I would
like to make new ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

I have a spacious workshop and a couple of power tools (router and mitre
saw) to begin with. I haven't even used the router yet as I'm not really
sure what it does for me.

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Router and Miter saw are a good start, start planning for either a
table saw or a bandsaw so you can rip/resaw surfaced stock. I suggest
a bandsaw since they are generally safer and can do more.

After that, find resources to help you that suit your learning style.
There are plenty of books, if you cant find a club nearby.

Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snipped for brevity]

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning?

It was for me. My first project was a loudspeaker box.
I used a jigsaw to cut the panels, and the router/straight edge combo
to straighten out the edges.
That in itself tought me a few things: NEED a table saw. Even a small
one.
Probabaly the most important piece of equipment would be a pair of
quality safety glasses, followed by some ear-muffs.
Then, learn to take your time. Contemplate your next moves with care.
Never take too big a bite, especially when using a router, as they can
be a nasty piece of kit in a hurry.
Always assume that the machinery you are using will cut 'you' a whole
lot quicker than wood.
Don't be afraid to try new ideas. For instance, when making a box, the
corners could be rabbetted, butt-joined, mitred..you name it, there are
many ways to skin a cat.
You can rabbet using a dado blade on a table saw, router table, using a
regular saw-blade or a router with a straight edge.
Learn to think backwards from the piece with which you want to end up.
(How's that for sentence structure, eh?)
I found that using a sketch was very helpful. With dimensions.
Learn how to say: "^^%$*%^$% I won't be doing it this way again!!"

....and keep your blades/bits sharp. Dull ones are dangerous.

Ask us again when you have a specific question, we'll be glad to help.

Good luck with this great hobby and keep driving on the wrong side of
the road!

"Wayne McDermott" wrote in message
...
I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics technician
and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios from the 30s and
40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but many of the cabinets
were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf. I would like to make new
ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

I have a spacious workshop and a couple of power tools (router and mitre
saw) to begin with. I haven't even used the router yet as I'm not really
sure what it does for me.

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Wayne, Reading here is a good start. Although many in this group will
encourage you, some will not. Ignore them and keep learning. Google is your
friend. Start by building a simple project, such as a box with a hinged
lid. Use pine or poplar to practice with. Buy the tools you need to finish
a project. Woodworking does not require a significant number of tools. The
majority of tools only serve to make the project go faster, and help with
repeatability. Some will tell you too buy good used table saw. I would
recommend a bandsaw as well. Its safer and easier to learn and you can
straighten edges with a hand plane, yet another good tool to learn about.

Some here will recommend Harbor Freight tools to start with, I would avoid
them. They will only frustrate you and waste your money. Find a
friend/group or class near by, check with local tool suppliers, they should
be able to steer you the right direction.

Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:53:46 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics
technician and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios
from the 30s and 40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but many
of the cabinets were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf. I would
like to make new ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

The mantra I tried to follow was one new skill per project. Try to
take a hard look at a good example of what you'd like to make and try
to figure out everything that needs to be done to make it. Then take
one of those processes and do a project that uses just that, for
example a simple picture frame would be a good test of doing mitered
corners.

Try to do projects for your workshop, but go about making them as if
they were going in your living room. They won't come out as well as
you would like, but you'll learn a whole lot in the process. In the
end it's going in your shop so it doesn't matter if you screwed up,
and that screw up will be there in front of you as a reminder the next
time. You might try making a bunch of boxes to organize your radio
parts. Make each box a little different.

The important thing is to take the simpler projects all the way to
completion, not just fool around with scrap pieces (though that's part
of it too). Get a big done stamp on them, blemishes and all. Go
through trying to get a good finish on them, as that's one area where
things can quickly spiral into a disaster.


-Leuf

Wayne McDermott wrote:

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning?

snip

Do you have adult education classes available thru your local high school?

Might find a wood working class offered there,

Get a copy of Fred Bingham's book, Boat Joinery & Cabinet Making
simplified from either the library or about $20 USD on Amazon and read
it over.

Skip the boat stuff, but read the rest.

Some very good basic information about tools, joints, etc.

After that, you will have learned enough to know that happiness is a
decent table saw with the best fence available.

Have fun.

Lew

Wayne McDermott wrote:
I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics
technician and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios
from the 30s and 40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but
many of the cabinets were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf.
I would like to make new ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

I have a spacious workshop and a couple of power tools (router and
mitre saw) to begin with. I haven't even used the router yet as I'm
not really sure what it does for me.

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't
found anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]

MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

G'day Ben,

You're absolutely right, the two cabinets i have are / were cheap ply
with a veneer.

Cheers,

Wayne

Wayne McDermott wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]

MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

G'day Ben,

You're absolutely right, the two cabinets i have are / were cheap ply
with a veneer.

Cheers,

Wayne

No problem,my man :-)

Your first choice of tooling would be a router as most of the cutout and
beading or rounding off work is done with the router.
As most of the casing on those radios is square a table saw would be needed
with an 80 toothed blade for fine cutting of plywood.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]

Your first choice of tooling would be a router as most of the cutout and
beading or rounding off work is done with the router.
As most of the casing on those radios is square a table saw would be needed
with an 80 toothed blade for fine cutting of plywood.


Thanks Ben,

Assuming I get my skill to a level that I can attempt it, I was thinking
of remaking the cabinets in something better than ply, maybe something
like a maple of cedar...when I find out exactly what would make a nice
cabinet. What would you suggest?

Wayne

Todd the wood junkie wrote:

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Router and Miter saw are a good start, start planning for either a
table saw or a bandsaw so you can rip/resaw surfaced stock. I suggest
a bandsaw since they are generally safer and can do more.

After that, find resources to help you that suit your learning style.
There are plenty of books, if you cant find a club nearby.

Thanks Todd, just this morning I have found a woodworking tool supplier
only 5 minutes from my home so I shall be visiting them this morning.

Wayne

Robatoy wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning?

[snip]


Thanks very much Robatoy ! Down here we prefer to think of ourselves as
driving on the "correct" side of the road.

Your reply is much appreciated, I owe you a beer.

Cheers,

Wayne

Teamcasa wrote:
"Wayne McDermott" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Wayne McDermott

Wayne, Reading here is a good start. Although many in this group will
encourage you, some will not. Ignore them and keep learning. Google is your
friend. Start by building a simple project, such as a box with a hinged
lid. Use pine or poplar to practice with. Buy the tools you need to finish
a project. Woodworking does not require a significant number of tools. The
majority of tools only serve to make the project go faster, and help with
repeatability. Some will tell you too buy good used table saw. I would
recommend a bandsaw as well. Its safer and easier to learn and you can
straighten edges with a hand plane, yet another good tool to learn about.

Some here will recommend Harbor Freight tools to start with, I would avoid
them. They will only frustrate you and waste your money. Find a
friend/group or class near by, check with local tool suppliers, they should
be able to steer you the right direction.

Dave



Thanks very much Dave, just this morning I have found a woodworking tool
supplier close to my home and shall visit them today.

In appreciation,

Wayne

Leuf wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:53:46 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

[snip]

The mantra I tried to follow was one new skill per project. Try to
take a hard look at a good example of what you'd like to make and try
to figure out everything that needs to be done to make it. Then take
one of those processes and do a project that uses just that, for
example a simple picture frame would be a good test of doing mitered
corners.

Try to do projects for your workshop, but go about making them as if
they were going in your living room. They won't come out as well as
you would like, but you'll learn a whole lot in the process. In the
end it's going in your shop so it doesn't matter if you screwed up,
and that screw up will be there in front of you as a reminder the next
time. You might try making a bunch of boxes to organize your radio
parts. Make each box a little different.

The important thing is to take the simpler projects all the way to
completion, not just fool around with scrap pieces (though that's part
of it too). Get a big done stamp on them, blemishes and all. Go
through trying to get a good finish on them, as that's one area where
things can quickly spiral into a disaster.


-Leuf
Excellent advice, thanks very much Leuf.

Wayne

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning?

snip

Do you have adult education classes available thru your local high school?

Might find a wood working class offered there,

Get a copy of Fred Bingham's book, Boat Joinery & Cabinet Making
simplified from either the library or about $20 USD on Amazon and read
it over.

Skip the boat stuff, but read the rest.

Some very good basic information about tools, joints, etc.

After that, you will have learned enough to know that happiness is a
decent table saw with the best fence available.

Have fun.

Lew
Thanks Lew, I am going to look at table saws this morning.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Thanks Lew, I am going to look at table saws this morning.


Remember there is a lot you can do WITHOUT a tablesaw - pick projects
based on the tools you have, and buy tools as you need them. I'll
agree with the bandsaw recommendation - safer, and arguably more
versatile than the tablesaw. Unless you're starting right off with
production-scale cabinet-making or something like that. Furthermore,
many people here will recommend that you get a TS that costs more than
$500US if you're going to be serious about woodworking, and that would
probably be a good investment, but maybe not on your very first
project.
I'd strongly recommend against buying up a whole shop full of tools
before you really get into the hobby. If you buy slowly as you go
along, you'll have a lot better idea of exactly what you need, and
you'll probably run into good deals on used tools or sales also.
You'll also have a chance to work on skills with each tool, rather than
trying to master everything at once. I'd say there's a lot you can do
with your router (buy a book about routers) and miter saw, especially
if you get an inexpensive handheld circular saw and some hand tools.
Make sure you get good-quality, accurate measuring tools (start with a
combination square that costs MORE than $20US).
By the way, someone mentioned Harbor Freight, which probably doesn't
exist in Australia - think bottom-of-the-line chinese import tools -
some are total junk, but some have their place for infrequent use, in
my opinion. Again, after you've been woodworking a little while,
you'll get a better idea of what you can save money on and what you
should buy top-of-the line.
Good luck,
Andy

Wayne McDermott wrote:

Thanks Lew, I am going to look at table saws this morning.

Just remember, the table saw is NOT as important as the FENCE.

A table saw without a good fence is a total PITA.

Lew

Andy wrote:
Thanks Lew, I am going to look at table saws this morning.


Remember there is a lot you can do WITHOUT a tablesaw - pick projects
based on the tools you have, and buy tools as you need them. I'll
agree with the bandsaw recommendation - safer, and arguably more
versatile than the tablesaw. Unless you're starting right off with
production-scale cabinet-making or something like that. Furthermore,
many people here will recommend that you get a TS that costs more than
$500US if you're going to be serious about woodworking, and that would
probably be a good investment, but maybe not on your very first
project.
I'd strongly recommend against buying up a whole shop full of tools
before you really get into the hobby. If you buy slowly as you go
along, you'll have a lot better idea of exactly what you need, and
you'll probably run into good deals on used tools or sales also.
You'll also have a chance to work on skills with each tool, rather than
trying to master everything at once. I'd say there's a lot you can do
with your router (buy a book about routers) and miter saw, especially
if you get an inexpensive handheld circular saw and some hand tools.
Make sure you get good-quality, accurate measuring tools (start with a
combination square that costs MORE than $20US).
By the way, someone mentioned Harbor Freight, which probably doesn't
exist in Australia - think bottom-of-the-line chinese import tools -
some are total junk, but some have their place for infrequent use, in
my opinion. Again, after you've been woodworking a little while,
you'll get a better idea of what you can save money on and what you
should buy top-of-the line.
Good luck,
Andy

I am a woodworker of two years still using my first table saw - a $100
Ryobi. I built an auxiliary table to give me more work surface, and it
is quite satisfactory for everyday cutting. I'd love to have an extra
$2,000 for a good cabinet saw, but you can work wonders with a bit of
ingenuity and a few homemade jigs.

Wayne McDermott wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]

Your first choice of tooling would be a router as most of the cutout
and beading or rounding off work is done with the router.
As most of the casing on those radios is square a table saw would be
needed with an 80 toothed blade for fine cutting of plywood.


Thanks Ben,

Assuming I get my skill to a level that I can attempt it, I was
thinking of remaking the cabinets in something better than ply, maybe
something like a maple of cedar...when I find out exactly what would
make a nice cabinet. What would you suggest?

Wayne

I think that wood, working with it and the end result in getting a high
mirror finish is down to personal preference and I would be biased to
choose select a type for you because I fall in love with Walnut, Rosewood
and Cedar,particulary Walnut this wood has a stunning appearence when
highly french polished.
However on saying that quite a few of those old radios where covered in
Walnut veneer I suspect that this type where in the higher priced bracket
of their day.


--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Wayne:

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Good luck. I'm one who believes, just keep trying. You'll make a lot of
mistakes, but we all do, all the time, but if you keep doing, you'll
learn.

I'd second the suggestion of a good woodworking class. I'ld look
around at tradeschools, colleges, etc, and see if they offer
adult evening classes. If that doesn't result in a hit, try your
local friendly woodworking group. Should be one in your area,
(try your tool shop that you mentioned or a lumber supplier).

Look for great books - Danny Proulx has some wonderful
basic cabinet books out. He is since departed this earth, but
his ability to educate live on.

And, as always, ask here in this group. Great bunch of people!

MJ Wallace

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

There was plenty of MDF and its immediate precursors around in the
1930s.

OK, so the thick stuff wasn't the same density and the dense stuff was
only thin, but "glued up rendered fibre boards" were certainly
prominent, if not actually common.

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

There was plenty of MDF and its immediate precursors around in the
1930s.


Sorry but MDF was introduced in either the 50's or 60's?
I read an artical somewhere on the web about its first manufacture.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
MDF in 30's&40's? no chance, ply and bakalite yes MDF no.

There was plenty of MDF and its immediate precursors around in the
1930s.


Sorry but MDF was introduced in either the 50's or 60's?
I read an artical somewhere on the web about its first manufacture.

oop's 20 years out. :-(
http://www.trustile.com/about/default.asp?cid=46

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:00:35 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]

Your first choice of tooling would be a router as most of the cutout and
beading or rounding off work is done with the router.
As most of the casing on those radios is square a table saw would be needed
with an 80 toothed blade for fine cutting of plywood.


Thanks Ben,

Assuming I get my skill to a level that I can attempt it, I was thinking
of remaking the cabinets in something better than ply, maybe something
like a maple of cedar...when I find out exactly what would make a nice
cabinet. What would you suggest?

I like maple, but it will burn on you if you're not careful, and it is
very hard. That's not to discourage you- it's a very nice wood, and
good to work with once you get used to how it wants to be cut and
shaped. Avoid stains with it, though- it gets blotchy very easily.
Leaving it blonde and polishing is beautiful.

Cedar is difficult for a number of reasons- while it can be very
pretty and smell great, there is an acid in the wood that can harm you
after prolonged contact with the dust (just make sure you wear a mask)
and it has an annoying ability to eat through a lot of finishes.
Again, not to discourage you- just make sure you do a little research
first on that one. Personally, I only use it for outdoor
applications, where the water-resistance makes it particularly useful.

Seeing that you're in Austrailia, I think I'd be using lacewood (they
might call it silky oak) like a fiend. Stunning stuff, and it grows
in your neck of the woods. Sort of looks like african mahogany with a
pattern like snakeskin- and it's superb to work with.

And to answer your first question, of course box-making is a great
place to start- a cabinet is really just a big fancy box when you get
right down to it.

Good luck, and have fun!

Prometheus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:00:35 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Wayne McDermott wrote:
[snip]
Your first choice of tooling would be a router as most of the cutout and
beading or rounding off work is done with the router.
As most of the casing on those radios is square a table saw would be needed
with an 80 toothed blade for fine cutting of plywood.

Thanks Ben,

Assuming I get my skill to a level that I can attempt it, I was thinking
of remaking the cabinets in something better than ply, maybe something
like a maple of cedar...when I find out exactly what would make a nice
cabinet. What would you suggest?

I like maple, but it will burn on you if you're not careful, and it is
very hard. That's not to discourage you- it's a very nice wood, and
good to work with once you get used to how it wants to be cut and
shaped. Avoid stains with it, though- it gets blotchy very easily.
Leaving it blonde and polishing is beautiful.

Cedar is difficult for a number of reasons- while it can be very
pretty and smell great, there is an acid in the wood that can harm you
after prolonged contact with the dust (just make sure you wear a mask)
and it has an annoying ability to eat through a lot of finishes.
Again, not to discourage you- just make sure you do a little research
first on that one. Personally, I only use it for outdoor
applications, where the water-resistance makes it particularly useful.

Seeing that you're in Austrailia, I think I'd be using lacewood (they
might call it silky oak) like a fiend. Stunning stuff, and it grows
in your neck of the woods. Sort of looks like african mahogany with a
pattern like snakeskin- and it's superb to work with.

And to answer your first question, of course box-making is a great
place to start- a cabinet is really just a big fancy box when you get
right down to it.

Good luck, and have fun!

I shall go looking for Silky Oak. Thanks Prometheus !

Wayne,............I would suggest that you become proficient in two
skills. Making simple boxes in mdf and secondly learning to apply
veneers. Dont forget to put a balancing veneer on the back and get a
book on veneering..its quite easy on small items like radios and you
can get very striking effects.

Most cabinets in those days were made in this way and the process still
applies for speaker cabinets today. Solid timber is likely to warp and
crack with the heat geneated from old radios. You dont need many tools
and your router and mitre saw are a good start.

Try some small boxes first with glued mitre joints.

and the best of luck.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:53:46 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics
technician and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios
from the 30s and 40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but many
of the cabinets were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf. I would
like to make new ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

I have a spacious workshop and a couple of power tools (router and mitre
saw) to begin with. I haven't even used the router yet as I'm not really
sure what it does for me.

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Bob Smith wrote: Well, he actually wrote nothing i guess...


On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:53:46 +0800, Wayne McDermott
wrote:

I am a complete newcomer to woodworking other than stuff done in high
school over 20 years ago. When I had a read I was an electronics
technician and have a current hobby of buying old wood console radios
from the 30s and 40s and repairing them. The electrics are easy but many
of the cabinets were actually made of quite cheap and nasty mdf. I would
like to make new ones but do not have the skill at this stage.

So what should I start with? Would box making be a good beginning? Can
anyone recommend something like a set of projects to get me to a skill
level that would let me attempt a full cabinet?

I have a spacious workshop and a couple of power tools (router and mitre
saw) to begin with. I haven't even used the router yet as I'm not really
sure what it does for me.

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

Kind Regards,

Wayne McDermott

Wayne McDermott wrote:

Any advise, pointers etc greatly appreciated. I live in Brisbane
Queensland and have been looking for woodworking clubs but haven't found
anything to date.

I recently picked up and was impressed with this new book:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Kitchen-Cabinetmaker-Professional-Constructing/dp/189283622X/sr=1-1/qid=1162383954/ref=sr_1_1/104-5139835-3138346?ie=UTF8&s=books

This is also quite good:
http://www.amazon.com/Building-Traditional-Kitchen-Cabinets-Tolpin/dp/1561580589/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_0/104-5139835-3138346

I have both books and would buy both again.