I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Smitty

can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?

I wouldn't. Unless you have some unusually thick drawer sides, there isn't
much meat for the screws to grab on to. And because the drawers will
presumably be opened and closed a lot there will be more stress on that
joint than on one that just sits there and doesn't move.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

wrote:
I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Ever since I was a kid, the first thing I do when I look at a piece of
furniture is open the drawers to see how they're joined, and in all
that ime, I've never seen pocket screws. I'm not saying it wouldn't
work. But there must be a reason why it's not done. Probably what the
other poster said: There's not enough thickness in the long-grain
piece. Drawers get a hell of a workout. A setup like that would
probably rack and twist, and eventually, the front would just come off.
But not before you hated the drawer for sticking all the time.

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
. ..
can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?

I wouldn't. Unless you have some unusually thick drawer sides, there
isn't much meat for the screws to grab on to. And because the drawers
will presumably be opened and closed a lot there will be more stress on
that joint than on one that just sits there and doesn't move.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

Of course, you could just use the pocket hole screws to hold the parts
together until the glue dries. I would not use pocket screws by themselves.
Jim

Of course, you could just use the pocket hole screws to hold the parts
together until the glue dries. I would not use pocket screws by
themselves.

It would still be a weak joint for something that gets stressed as much as a
drawer front.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
. ..
Of course, you could just use the pocket hole screws to hold the parts
together until the glue dries. I would not use pocket screws by
themselves.

It would still be a weak joint for something that gets stressed as much as
a drawer front.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

Yes, end grain does not take to glue very well.

Jim

Jim wrote:

Yes, end grain does not take to glue very well.

Well, that's why you dovetail the joint before you put in the pocket
screws. :-)

"boorite" writes:
Well, that's why you dovetail the joint before you put in the pocket
screws. :-)

If you do the dovetail right, why do you need the screws?

I made a set of drawers for an existing kitchen island for a friend.
The dovetails were snug enough to hold, and the drawer extensions kept
the sides from coming apart far enough to let go anyway. I told her,
if it ever loosened up, *then* I'd glue it. That was a couple years
ago, there's still no glue in them, and she uses them every day.

Yes...

http://www.kregtool.com/education_center/index.php

But they will need a glue joint also.

Build the basic box with pocket hole screws and
cover the face with the "finished" front.




wrote:

I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Smitty

wrote:
I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Smitty


Of course it is best to use dovetail joints or other interlocking wood
joints, but you can use pocket holes, and they will be strong enough
even with fairly heavy loads if you are using decent drawer slide hardware.

You do need to pay attention to how you do the pocket hole joints
though. As with any screwed joint, you should never screw into end grain.

When building false front drawers you can build a basic box where the
sides are the full length of the drawer and the front and back pieces
fit between the sides. You then drill pocket holes through the front of
the front piece and then attach it to the sides... The back is done that
same way... by pocket holing the back of the back to the two sides...

Then you add the false front which covers the pocket holes in front.

When the box is complete, no pocket holes will be visible at all except
those in the very back of the drawer, and those will only be seen when
the drawer is removed.

This method is actually described in the book "Building Kitchen
Cabinets" by Udo Schmidt... It's a Taunton publication. It is a very
basic box... the book goes on to tell you about better ways to drawers
using drawer lock bits, lock miters, through and half-blind dovetails, etc.

Personally, I don't care for false fronts or pocket joinery in
furniture. I would prefer to attach the drawer sides directly to the
actual drawer front using a quality wood to wood joint and some glue.

On 21 Sep 2006 10:39:10 -0700, "boorite" wrote:

wrote:
I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Ever since I was a kid, the first thing I do when I look at a piece of
furniture is open the drawers to see how they're joined, and in all
that ime, I've never seen pocket screws. I'm not saying it wouldn't
work. But there must be a reason why it's not done. Probably what the
other poster said: There's not enough thickness in the long-grain
piece. Drawers get a hell of a workout. A setup like that would
probably rack and twist, and eventually, the front would just come off.
But not before you hated the drawer for sticking all the time.

I seriously doubt you would have those problems, so long as the drawer
parts are at least 1/2" you have enough thickness for pocket screws.
And they are very strong. And the drawer bottom, properly sized,
keeps the whole thing square.


-Leuf

DJ Delorie wrote:
"boorite" writes:
Well, that's why you dovetail the joint before you put in the pocket
screws. :-)

If you do the dovetail right, why do you need the screws?

Joke!

Kind of like pulling a M&T together with cam locks.

"boorite" writes:
Kind of like pulling a M&T together with cam locks.

Actually, I *have* used pocket screws with M&T joints. Just one or
two to hold the piece together while I'm building it; in this case, it
had to be assembled and disassembled many times (it was custom fitted,
then shipped to a pro finisher, etc) before committing to glue.

"boorite" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim wrote:

Yes, end grain does not take to glue very well.

Well, that's why you dovetail the joint before you put in the pocket
screws. :-)

I would have said to just use a dovetail joint, but my brain short circuited
for a while.
Jim

In article .com,
wrote:
I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Smitty


If the drawer sides are 3/4" thick you could. If these drawers ahre
going to be heavily loaded and slammed shut I'd have my doubts about
longevity unless using a hardwood that really held a screw well.


--
Every complicated problem has a simple solution that doesn't work.

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwasserm(@)charm(.)net

Leuf wrote:
On 21 Sep 2006 10:39:10 -0700, "boorite" wrote:

wrote:
I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Ever since I was a kid, the first thing I do when I look at a piece of
furniture is open the drawers to see how they're joined, and in all
that ime, I've never seen pocket screws. I'm not saying it wouldn't
work. But there must be a reason why it's not done. Probably what the
other poster said: There's not enough thickness in the long-grain
piece. Drawers get a hell of a workout. A setup like that would
probably rack and twist, and eventually, the front would just come off.
But not before you hated the drawer for sticking all the time.

I seriously doubt you would have those problems, so long as the drawer
parts are at least 1/2" you have enough thickness for pocket screws.
And they are very strong. And the drawer bottom, properly sized,
keeps the whole thing square.

That sounds logical, but what I'm wondering is, how come nobody does it
that way?

With production machinery, they would never slow
down for any screw applications. That can cut a
box joint or dovetail so fast, it makes no sense
to do it any other way.

Most DIY folks like the process of making joints
and pocket holes don't fill that need.




boorite wrote:

Leuf wrote:

On 21 Sep 2006 10:39:10 -0700, "boorite" wrote:


wrote:

I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Ever since I was a kid, the first thing I do when I look at a piece of
furniture is open the drawers to see how they're joined, and in all
that ime, I've never seen pocket screws. I'm not saying it wouldn't
work. But there must be a reason why it's not done. Probably what the
other poster said: There's not enough thickness in the long-grain
piece. Drawers get a hell of a workout. A setup like that would
probably rack and twist, and eventually, the front would just come off.
But not before you hated the drawer for sticking all the time.

I seriously doubt you would have those problems, so long as the drawer
parts are at least 1/2" you have enough thickness for pocket screws.
And they are very strong. And the drawer bottom, properly sized,
keeps the whole thing square.


That sounds logical, but what I'm wondering is, how come nobody does it
that way?

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
Most DIY folks like the process of making joints
and pocket holes don't fill that need.

That and the fact that the pockets would normally need to be filled for a
finished look.

Only in certain situations where the joints are easily
seen.

I admit that you can't use them "all of the time"
but they sure beat nails for attaching face frames and
I use them at every chance.


Upscale wrote:

"Pat Barber" wrote in message

Most DIY folks like the process of making joints
and pocket holes don't fill that need.


That and the fact that the pockets would normally need to be filled for a
finished look.

Here's some pocket-hole information and diagrams.
http://www.rusticwoodworking.com/Inf..._main_page.htm

(from Pat Barber )
Yes...
http://www.kregtool.com/education_center/index.php
But they will need a glue joint also.
Build the basic box with pocket hole screws and
cover the face with the "finished" front.
~~~~~~~
(From Trevor)
When building false front drawers you can build a basic box where the
sides are the full length of the drawer and the front and back pieces
fit between the sides. You then drill pocket holes through the front
of
the front piece and then attach it to the sides... The back is done
that
same way... by pocket holing the back of the back to the two sides...
Then you add the false front which covers the pocket holes in front.
When the box is complete, no pocket holes will be visible at all except

those in the very back of the drawer, and those will only be seen when
the drawer is removed.
~~~~~~~
Thanks to all with their various suggestion. I did make the drawers
using the suggestions of Pat & Trevor.

I made the drawers out of 1x3s. Used the pocket hole jig
to attach the ends to the sides.
I grooved the sides & ends with a 1/4 inch slot for the bottoms.
I bought an adjustable dado blade at Home Depot, but my saw
arbor wasn't long enuff, so I didn't use it. Instead, after a lot
of thinking, sandwiched another sawblade next the one one
I had on the arbor, & separated both with a piece of manila folder.
WALA. . . I cut a test pc. & the slot was perfect.
Yesterday, I used my router & a round-over bit to get a round
top edge on the ends & sides.Attached a 1/8 in. ply pc to the front
end to cover the pocket holes.
Will stain the pine material a darker color & varnish.

Smitty
Pat Barber wrote:
Yes...

wrote:

I am building some under-the-counter drawers
for my kitchen bar. I have a pocket drill kit,
but never used one.
My question: can I use this to secure the drawer
fronts & backs to the sides ?
I plan to do a test set-up, but any info on this
by the group would be most welcome.

Smitty