Anyone aware of a source of saw blades that leave a "V" shaped cut?

wrote:
Anyone aware of a source of saw blades that leave a "V" shaped cut?

How deep? In what material? For what kind of saw? Does the whole cut
need to be a "v", or just the ends of the teeth?
My first thoughts would be to make 2 passes on the TS with the blade at
an angle, to use a v-groove router bit, or to use a beading tool,
depending on the answers to some of your questions above.
Andy

The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
..75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

The resulting V shapes helps the plastic heat bend in the right places,
and the 90 degree kerf closes the plastic up after the bend.

A multistep procedure is not practical here. We run thousands of these
parts per year in my plastic fabrication shop and I'm trying to replace
my current set up which is two routers staggered apart on a shop built
router table with a fence. I've tried every possible router bit
geometry available and get results that are acceptable but not ideal.
I'd like to get cleaner grooves and avoid running two screaming routers
for days at a time.

I could use shaper cutters which are available off the shelf and build
myself a machine, but I thought if I could find a table top table saw
with enough room on the arbor for blades .75" apart and the right
blades, I could save some time, effort and $$$.

I asked the question in this group because I can't find my desired
blade on the internet and figure you guys may have the answer.

Thanks for your help.




A How deep? In what material? For what kind of saw? Does the whole
cut
need to be a "v", or just the ends of the teeth?
My first thoughts would be to make 2 passes on the TS with the blade at
an angle, to use a v-groove router bit, or to use a beading tool,
depending on the answers to some of your questions above.
Andy

writes:
I asked the question in this group because I can't find my desired
blade on the internet and figure you guys may have the answer.

Have you tried asking a blade manufacturer, like Forrest? If you do
this a lot, it might be worth paying for a custom-ground blade.

Sounds to me like you are thinking of the WRONG TOOLING . . .

How about a 'Trim router' with a 'veining' bit. Can't believe one isn't
available in Carbide?? In fact, there are some companies who will CUSTOM
MAKE a bit. {In a high production shop this cost should be amortized
quickly} Easy enough to handle, and the 'set-up' jig equally so. {One router
.. . . re-positioned for each cut, or two routers - 'off-set' {'staggered}}
'Muffling' should be easy . . . small enough to put a 'blister' around the
jig, with 'air in' and 'air out' flexible 'piping' for cooling. Not much
strain on the equipment . . . you'll be barely touching the material as you
are cutting.

Obviously, you could use a heavier, full sized router . . . especially if
the weight was to your advantage.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

wrote in message
ups.com...
The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
.75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

The resulting V shapes helps the plastic heat bend in the right places,
and the 90 degree kerf closes the plastic up after the bend.

A multistep procedure is not practical here. We run thousands of these
parts per year in my plastic fabrication shop and I'm trying to replace
my current set up which is two routers staggered apart on a shop built
router table with a fence. I've tried every possible router bit
geometry available and get results that are acceptable but not ideal.
I'd like to get cleaner grooves and avoid running two screaming routers
for days at a time.

I could use shaper cutters which are available off the shelf and build
myself a machine, but I thought if I could find a table top table saw
with enough room on the arbor for blades .75" apart and the right
blades, I could save some time, effort and $$$.

I asked the question in this group because I can't find my desired
blade on the internet and figure you guys may have the answer.

Thanks for your help.

wrote in message
ups.com...
The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
.75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

The resulting V shapes helps the plastic heat bend in the right places,
and the 90 degree kerf closes the plastic up after the bend.

A multistep procedure is not practical here. We run thousands of these
parts per year in my plastic fabrication shop and I'm trying to replace
my current set up which is two routers staggered apart on a shop built
router table with a fence. I've tried every possible router bit
geometry available and get results that are acceptable but not ideal.
I'd like to get cleaner grooves and avoid running two screaming routers
for days at a time.

I could use shaper cutters which are available off the shelf and build
myself a machine, but I thought if I could find a table top table saw
with enough room on the arbor for blades .75" apart and the right
blades, I could save some time, effort and $$$.

How big is the stock you want to run through this device?

If it is not too big, and you need to do some volume, I would look into a
molder. Get a custom molder knives made and just run the material through
the molder. If you haven't seen a molder, they kind of look like a planer.
With various shaped knives to cut a profile into the wood.

You might even be able to get a custom molder blades made for a table saw.

cbenson wrote...
The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
.75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

I would think Mike Santarone @ National Carbide Saw & Tool could make
something like that up. He's made custom blades for my shop; top-notch
quality, tight tolerances, and very resonable pricing. His understanding of
saw-blade geometry is impressive, so he'll understand how to get the cut you
want in the material you're using. Worth giving Mike a call at
215-333-0441.

We used to do v-grooving in plexi for heat bending using a triple chip at a
45. Your idea to have a blade ground just for v-grooving sounds like a much
better idea.

--
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com

Wow, I'm impressed with the prompt and thoughtful replies generated in
this group.

Ron, I think I've tried every off the shelf "V" producing router bit
available. The one we've settled on is a Bosch V-grooving and scoring
bit #85284 (solid carbide). We use the Porter Cable 3+ horse routers
because we've got a bunch of them and they last forever. I'm skeptical
about the laminate trim sized routers standing up to continuous use.

I think the real problem is there isn't a good path to evacuate chips
from a router cutter. The material has a low melting point and regrind
and chips melting back onto the kerf are the main problem. A saw blade
would carry the chips away from the kerf.

Lee, the parts are 14" wide. I'll check out molders before I take
action.

Hambone and DJ, I think the custom blade idea is the most promising,
especially since they'd fit on a table saw and save the expense of
custom machine building. (of course I was hoping someone already made
such a blade as a standard product.) I will call Mike Santarone.

Thank again.

Curt Benson
fablab.net

I would think Mike Santarone @ National Carbide Saw & Tool could make
something like that up. He's made custom blades for my shop; top-notch
quality, tight tolerances, and very resonable pricing. His understanding of
saw-blade geometry is impressive, so he'll understand how to get the cut you
want in the material you're using. Worth giving Mike a call at
215-333-0441.

We used to do v-grooving in plexi for heat bending using a triple chip at a
45. Your idea to have a blade ground just for v-grooving sounds like a much
better idea.

--
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com

Seems to me regular kerf blades are more than 0.06", so you really just need
the regrind, not custom teeth.
Wilson
wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, I'm impressed with the prompt and thoughtful replies generated in
this group.

Ron, I think I've tried every off the shelf "V" producing router bit
available. The one we've settled on is a Bosch V-grooving and scoring
bit #85284 (solid carbide). We use the Porter Cable 3+ horse routers
because we've got a bunch of them and they last forever. I'm skeptical
about the laminate trim sized routers standing up to continuous use.

I think the real problem is there isn't a good path to evacuate chips
from a router cutter. The material has a low melting point and regrind
and chips melting back onto the kerf are the main problem. A saw blade
would carry the chips away from the kerf.

Lee, the parts are 14" wide. I'll check out molders before I take
action.

Hambone and DJ, I think the custom blade idea is the most promising,
especially since they'd fit on a table saw and save the expense of
custom machine building. (of course I was hoping someone already made
such a blade as a standard product.) I will call Mike Santarone.

Thank again.

Curt Benson
fablab.net

I would think Mike Santarone @ National Carbide Saw & Tool could make
something like that up. He's made custom blades for my shop; top-notch
quality, tight tolerances, and very resonable pricing. His understanding
of
saw-blade geometry is impressive, so he'll understand how to get the cut
you
want in the material you're using. Worth giving Mike a call at
215-333-0441.

We used to do v-grooving in plexi for heat bending using a triple chip at
a
45. Your idea to have a blade ground just for v-grooving sounds like a
much
better idea.

--
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, I'm impressed with the prompt and thoughtful replies generated in
this group.

Ron, I think I've tried every off the shelf "V" producing router bit
available. The one we've settled on is a Bosch V-grooving and scoring
bit #85284 (solid carbide). We use the Porter Cable 3+ horse routers
because we've got a bunch of them and they last forever. I'm skeptical
about the laminate trim sized routers standing up to continuous use.

I think the real problem is there isn't a good path to evacuate chips
from a router cutter. The material has a low melting point and regrind
and chips melting back onto the kerf are the main problem. A saw blade
would carry the chips away from the kerf.

Lee, the parts are 14" wide. I'll check out molders before I take
action.


Here is a couple to look at that are not monster industrial machines.

http://www.rbiwoodtools.com/woodplaner.html

http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/planers.cfm

I should point out that both of these machines can do gang ripping. You can
install multiple saw blades to any width you want. The advantage of these
machines is that the spacing of the rip blades can be changed at any time.
Or just change the molder cutters.

The size of stock that can go through them or the size of saw blades are
thing you will have to check out. I just knew about these and threw out the
suggestions.

I know that custom guitar makers use a gang rip machine (usually made in
shop) to cut the fret grooves on the neck of guitars. Maybe there is some
info on these you could research that could help you.

Good luck coming up with a suitable solution for your problem.

Hambone and DJ, I think the custom blade idea is the most promising,
especially since they'd fit on a table saw and save the expense of
custom machine building. (of course I was hoping someone already made
such a blade as a standard product.) I will call Mike Santarone.

Did you look at the LRH molding head for tablesaws?

I think they might have a v-groove cutter head for your work.

Here's a link:

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...agicmolder.htm

MJ Wallace

Sounds like a custom grind would be the answer. Added benefit to that is
that the grinder could insure that both blades are the same diameter. Not
surprised that the routers didn't work well.

wrote in message
ups.com...
The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
.75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

The resulting V shapes helps the plastic heat bend in the right places,
and the 90 degree kerf closes the plastic up after the bend.

A multistep procedure is not practical here. We run thousands of these
parts per year in my plastic fabrication shop and I'm trying to replace
my current set up which is two routers staggered apart on a shop built
router table with a fence. I've tried every possible router bit
geometry available and get results that are acceptable but not ideal.
I'd like to get cleaner grooves and avoid running two screaming routers
for days at a time.

I could use shaper cutters which are available off the shelf and build
myself a machine, but I thought if I could find a table top table saw
with enough room on the arbor for blades .75" apart and the right
blades, I could save some time, effort and $$$.

I asked the question in this group because I can't find my desired
blade on the internet and figure you guys may have the answer.

Thanks for your help.




A How deep? In what material? For what kind of saw? Does the whole
cut
need to be a "v", or just the ends of the teeth?
My first thoughts would be to make 2 passes on the TS with the blade at
an angle, to use a v-groove router bit, or to use a beading tool,
depending on the answers to some of your questions above.
Andy

On 31 Jul 2006 08:47:49 -0700, wrote:

The depth is .06" in .125" material. The whole cut in the material is
shaped like a 90 degree "V". The material is Sintra,(expanded
polyurethane)--a soft plastic. I want to stack two blades on an arbor
.75" apart--somewhat like one would do with a dado set up. Then I
could cut cut two V shaped grooves at once.

The resulting V shapes helps the plastic heat bend in the right places,
and the 90 degree kerf closes the plastic up after the bend.

A multistep procedure is not practical here. We run thousands of these
parts per year in my plastic fabrication shop and I'm trying to replace
my current set up which is two routers staggered apart on a shop built
router table with a fence. I've tried every possible router bit
geometry available and get results that are acceptable but not ideal.
I'd like to get cleaner grooves and avoid running two screaming routers
for days at a time.

I know "production" and "hand plane" are not generally found together
these days, but what about a simple wooden plane with 2 v cutters in
it? I would think that you could do it in one pass and just have one
long curl come off. It'd sure be quieter than any number of routers
or table saws.


-Leuf

The problem with V groove router bits is that they don't cut at the center.
The surface speed at the outside edge is quite fast enabling it to cut well.
Surface speed diminishes toward the center of the bit becoming essentially
zero in the middle The tip acts as a scriber, plowing a groove rather than
cutting. A saw blade would be much better for your application.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, I'm impressed with the prompt and thoughtful replies generated in
this group.

Ron, I think I've tried every off the shelf "V" producing router bit
available. The one we've settled on is a Bosch V-grooving and scoring
bit #85284 (solid carbide). We use the Porter Cable 3+ horse routers
because we've got a bunch of them and they last forever. I'm skeptical
about the laminate trim sized routers standing up to continuous use.

I think the real problem is there isn't a good path to evacuate chips
from a router cutter. The material has a low melting point and regrind
and chips melting back onto the kerf are the main problem. A saw blade
would carry the chips away from the kerf.

Lee, the parts are 14" wide. I'll check out molders before I take
action.

Hambone and DJ, I think the custom blade idea is the most promising,
especially since they'd fit on a table saw and save the expense of
custom machine building. (of course I was hoping someone already made
such a blade as a standard product.) I will call Mike Santarone.

Thank again.

Curt Benson
fablab.net

I would think Mike Santarone @ National Carbide Saw & Tool could make
something like that up. He's made custom blades for my shop; top-notch
quality, tight tolerances, and very resonable pricing. His
understanding of
saw-blade geometry is impressive, so he'll understand how to get the cut
you
want in the material you're using. Worth giving Mike a call at
215-333-0441.

We used to do v-grooving in plexi for heat bending using a triple chip
at a
45. Your idea to have a blade ground just for v-grooving sounds like a
much
better idea.

--
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com

"Leuf" wrote

I know "production" and "hand plane" are not generally found together
these days, but what about a simple wooden plane with 2 v cutters in
it? I would think that you could do it in one pass and just have one
long curl come off. It'd sure be quieter than any number of routers
or table saws.


You know Leuf, you may be on to something there.

Figure out some kind of fence system. Lay it on the plastic stock, then just
push a sweet, pretty Steve Knight Plane over the stock. Maybe something in
cocobolo.

It would require some kind of specialized plane blades. But oldtimers had
thousands of profiles. I am sure something could be figured out pretty
easily. An added bonus would be that the stock is soft. This would greatly
reduce the sharpening involved.

Steve Knight, are you listening?

wrote:
Did you look at the LRH molding head for tablesaws?

I think they might have a v-groove cutter head for your work.

Here's a link:

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...agicmolder.htm

MJ Wallace

I don't know about LRH, but Corob definitely make a molding head and 90
degree V cutters:

http://corobcutters.com/shapeknives.php

Nice folks to deal with, too.

John Martin