On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:14:05 -0700, charlie b
wrote:

Unless the breadboard end crooks it
won't pull away from the ends of the top, opening the joint.

Right. If the end wants to warp and there's nothing holding it on the
ends the joint will open up. You want to fix the joint in two axes
while allowing the third with the cross grain to move.


I have no doubt there's plenty of Japanese furniture with your snazzy
mitered corners that are just that, plain ol mitered corners with some
kind of mechanical fastener for reinforcement. I'm sure they do it
too.

I don't think mitered corners are snazzy, nor are they common
in Japanese furniture - but quite common in Chinese furniture.
All oriental furniture does not look alike. Chinese joinery is often
complex - inside - yes - outside quite plain - but, IMHO, effective
in the overall design.

I think it's a Western vs Eastern approach to the visual arts,
furniture being functional visual art. The Eastern approach
is evocative, providing just enough information to imply the
rest, the viewer filling in what isn't actually there. The Western
approach is more provocative - "I'm showing you EXACTLY what
I want you to see.". We Westerners have a tendency towards
details and specifics and dislike ambiguity and not proned to
nuances. But in cultures where your life, and the lives of your
family can be jeopordized by saying the wrong thing to the wrong
person, nuances and ambiguity are necessities of existence.
Ambiguity and nuances then spill over into other things - furniture
design being one example?

I'm told that in Japanese, there are numerous ways to say "no"
by using variations of what sounds like "yes". Both the speaker
and the listener know that what is being communicated is "no",
but both parties may "save face" by appearing to agree.

snip

I think having the grain running all the way from top to bottom on the
stiles gives your eye direction, it defines the corner. If you've got
miters everywhere then you've got a bunch of rectangles stuck
together. If the top is a frame and panel I like miters there, but on
the sides give me my trusty butt joints.

see above Evocative vs Provocative regarding eye direction.

"a bunch of rectangles stuck together" - that's basically what
furniture is. The trick is to integrate them in a pleasing manner
while maintaining the functionality.

I didn't say that well. I meant it would be like you took a
cube/rectangular solid and stuck picture frames on 5 sides. It just
doesn't seem right to me, though I've only seen the closeup

As for the woodworker ego - it doesn't go with their culture.
Ego can get you in trouble - "it's the proud nail that gets hit
again". I think Chinese joinery is more about the seamless
blending of form and function. Why in the world would one
go to all the trouble of making these kinds of joints when
no one will ever see them. I suspect there is more ego in
A&C joinery - though couched in "honesty" and "design elements",
you must admit there is a little bit of "look what I can do -see".

Well you go back to the past and you have a time where people did not
move as much, furniture was more expensive compared to the wages of
the day. The builder's reputation was I think more important to him.
Regardless of culture the thing just had to not fall apart. When you
can say I built your father's furniture and my father built his
father's, and they are all still together you don't really need to
show off your skills. So that guy can do whatever he wants that no
one but him will ever know was there, and it's not about his ego. But
for me, if I do that then I'm just showing off for myself. And if I
enjoy doing it that's fine.

Then there's the Western "over design" thing. If you examine
most Chinese furniture, there's a minimalist quality about
them - using just enough to do the job, and then making it
seem like there's less there than there actually is. Western
furniture typically over designs then emphasizes that it's
over designed - but stout and solid. Ironically, "clouds" are
often added to lighten the piece up a little, in a purely
decorative way.

Well I think you compare a typical Western and Eastern home and the
Western home is full of "stuff" and so the furniture needs to shout a
bit to be noticed amongst the clutter.

You clearly know about A&C furniture and no doubt have a
favorite piece. Have you really studied it

You must have me confused with someone else I only really have a
vague understanding. And don't ask me about Queen Anne or anything
like that, I have no clue whatsoever.

Mostly what I like about the style is that it can be done without a
million router bits, and it's extensible. Sort of a blank slate. You
can keep it the way it is and it works. You can add twists and
embellishments and it still works.

The fact that most of it is in oak must dictate some of the
joinery requirements and grain selection for some of the parts,
quarter sawn "moving" less than riff sawn, . . . What are
some examples you've noted?

Not so much in terms of joinery, but I think that oak being what it is
in terms of appearance, which unless it's QS is pretty dull and
coarse. As I said in the beginning, I don't think subtle design
features and oak really work. Not that the design shouldn't have some
subtleties, just that it's got to have 'something' to it.


Pick your favorite piece, really study it and share some of
what you discover - please.

Well I do mainly jewelry boxes, it's rare for me to do a full size
piece of furniture. So I'm going to pick out this jewelry box:

http://jewelry-chests.com/index.cfm/...&product_id=21

What I like first and foremost is that it looks good with 'ordinary'
wood. Okay they are showing it there in some really nice cherry, they
show it in birdseye too, though you can't see the eyes at that size
picture and it still looks good. They also show it in a really wild
cocobolo, and honestly I think it looks better plain despite the
gorgeous grain of the cocobolo. I think there is too much reliance on
fancy woods and mouldings in jewelry boxes, so it's nice to see a
design that works without relying on that.

The open sides - never would have occured to me. I wonder about the
practicallity of it, doesn't it allow dust in? But it gives it a
feeling almost like it's a little table with the drawers hanging in
space below it.

The drawer slides are structural.

I'm curious about how the 'legs' are attached to the top. They
specifically mention something about it in the comments, but don't
give any details. I'm assuming one pair is fixed and the other is
allowed to slide.

I wish I could get away with those prices...


-Leuf