Like this whole thing is on topic? "rec.woodworking"

I give you win yep I am and was off topic was the question about a TS? BS?
Router? Planer? Jointer?

Al


"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:_eednd5JTZbJUv_ZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@forethought. net...
Al wrote:
All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure
whats
in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro
area.

You are making an offtopic argument then, as what's being asserted is
that snooping through your bag thing is completely voluntary on your
part and they have no right to do it if you refuse. If they suspect you
are a shoplifter they have procedures to follow. If they don't, they
have procedures to follow.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/nc-s...294/giantgenie

The trial court erred in directing verdict for defendant
grocery store manager as to plaintiff's claim for assault and
battery where the evidence tended to show that the manager
accused plaintiff of stealing cartons of cigarettes, grabbed
plaintiff's arm, and pulled him two aisles down toward the
store office. Since defendant manager was acting within the
scope of his employment by the corporate defendant, the
manager's actions will be imputed to the corporate defendant
under the doctrine of respondeat superior.

etc.

er
--
email not valid

On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:35:59 -0500, nanook wrote:

this may be true, BUT, chances are if you take something back and
there is no mark on it from the door checker, they're not likely to
allow you to return the material.

They can't legally do that either and what's to stop you from going
home and putting on your own highlighter mark? So long as you have a
receipt, they are obligated, under the law, to treat you equally or
they open themselves to a major lawsuit.

Here lately, WalMart has really backed off in our area, they just like
to check the carts that are carrying oversized items that are not
bagged.

Walmart has gotten sued a lot over this, my local store just has an
old guy sitting by the door in case the alarm goes off, they don't
even pretend to check receipts. There is one Walmart that I used to
have to go into to get things for work where the little old lady at
the door would literally chase you out into the parking lot screaching
at the top of her lungs.

personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
stealing affects all of us in the long run.

If you're not stealing, what difference does it make? And you think
the people who are stealing are going to stop?

In article ,
Brian Henderson wrote:

so we just set
off alarms going into and out of a lot of stores. It was as
interesting to see which ones weren't going off as it was to see which
ones were.

In my experience, those store (and library) alarms draw as much
attention from "official" store personnel as do neighborhood car alarms.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

Roy Smith wrote:

...

Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?

What *I* did, in a very similar situation at Home Depot was go
somewhere
else to buy what I needed, leaving the merchandise at the checkout
station.

The next time I was there, the 'self service; checkout stations were
gone.

They've come back now, but only a couple of them with an adequate
number of real people who can check our items priced by quanity.

Like lumber, for example.

--

FF

John Emmons wrote:
Heehee...I did the same thing at a Home Depot once, called the manager and
asked him why he wasn't running one of the cash registers since the lines
weren't moving and there were no cashiers to be found, amazingly, after I
hung up, he found some employees to put to work.

One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that I
thought I had stolen something to call the police.

You had told the employee that you thought you had stolen something?

Why?

I asked a _competent_ employee why they were checking receipts
on the way out. He explained that sometimes people will buy something,
take it home, them bring back the receipt and try to walk out with a
second item. The person at the door is supposed to be checking the
TIME and DATE on the receipt to verify that it was just issued.

--

FF

Jay Pique wrote:
If I were you I would just go back and pay.

I was at the local Napa today to get an airfilter, and told the guy
that I owed the store $1.26 for a couple of plastic license plate nuts
and machine screws. He remembered the transaction, said thanks for
coming back to pay, and looked genuinely pleased to have had me come
in. That's just gravy for me. The real payoff is the satisfaction and
peace of mind I get from doing the right thing.


Hopefully that makes up for the frustration you feel when you
discover that the NAPA parts don't fit your car....

Leastways, they usually did not fit mine.

--

FF

On Thu, 11 May 2006 20:46:30 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:25:48 -0500, George Shouse
wrote:

Really?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...ml#amendmentiv

I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".


Since you top-posted a post that had been responded to in proper
chronological order, we have no clue as to whether you are agreeing with
the first post or the second. ... and frankly, I'm not interested in
having to wade through some legal link to find out.

lol, so you semi top-post to tell me this?

I'm hoping you can guess from the url - constitution, bill of
rights - #4?

as to top posting, I top posted to a top poster. What do you
do? I used to "fix up" with a cut & paste to the bottom but
I've gotten tired of that. Used to net-cop, too.



On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" wrote:

They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
Walmart.


Al


"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
wrote:

One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
I
thought I had stolen something to call the police.

I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.

You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.

I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
yelling "I have to see your receipt".

No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.

Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
for me.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Should have read, "told her as I had told the employee that if they thought
I had stolen something to call the police."

Sorry bout that.

John

wrote in message
oups.com...

John Emmons wrote:
Heehee...I did the same thing at a Home Depot once, called the manager
and
asked him why he wasn't running one of the cash registers since the
lines
weren't moving and there were no cashiers to be found, amazingly, after
I
hung up, he found some employees to put to work.

One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had
someone
who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee
that I
thought I had stolen something to call the police.

You had told the employee that you thought you had stolen something?

Why?

I asked a _competent_ employee why they were checking receipts
on the way out. He explained that sometimes people will buy something,
take it home, them bring back the receipt and try to walk out with a
second item. The person at the door is supposed to be checking the
TIME and DATE on the receipt to verify that it was just issued.

--

FF

On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:17:18 GMT, "CW" wrote:

How many times has letting them look through your things stopped you from
stealing? Can't you stop on your own?


"nanook" wrote in message
.. .
personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
stealing affects all of us in the long run.



LOL!! funny, but you know what i'm talking about, CW. I personally
don't steal, but i'm sure it acts as a deterrent for some folks.

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:37:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
it.

Nope, that's not even reasonable suspicion. Their security team has
to have proof that you stole something (ie. you on video doing it).
The alarms at the doors are largely a deterrent, not a way to catch
people. You have zero obligation to stop.

Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
while
to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.

--

FF

George Shouse wrote:
Really?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...ml#amendmentiv

I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".

On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" wrote:

They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
Walmart.


Al


"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
wrote:

One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
I
thought I had stolen something to call the police.

I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.

You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.

I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
yelling "I have to see your receipt".

No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.

Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
for me.



It becomes necessary to determine when it is that ownership
of the merchandise changes from the store to the customer.

One would naively su[ppose that happens as soon as the money
changes hands but ISTR that in most states it actuall happens
when the merchandise passes through the door. I guess you
money is still yours up to that point too.

Of course this has nothing to do with your effects that you brought
with you to the store.

And of course the Bill of Rights directly restricts government action,
not private action. Private action is restricted by a number of
indirect appraoches, mostly via the ICC and the 14th amendment.

--

FF

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:37:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
it.

Nope, that's not even reasonable suspicion. Their security team has
to have proof that you stole something (ie. you on video doing it).
The alarms at the doors are largely a deterrent, not a way to catch
people. You have zero obligation to stop.

Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
evidence may fall short of proof.

--

FF

On Fri, 12 May 2006 11:15:35 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Henderson wrote:
so we just set
off alarms going into and out of a lot of stores. It was as
interesting to see which ones weren't going off as it was to see which
ones were.

In my experience, those store (and library) alarms draw as much
attention from "official" store personnel as do neighborhood car alarms.

Pretty much. They might have looked up, we pointed to the tag and
they shrugged and went back to reading a book.

On 13 May 2006 10:25:51 -0700, wrote:

Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
while to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.

Which ones, the stick-on ones that they put inside DVDs and the like?
They just peel off. It's the big plastic things that you have to have
a special tool to remove that are a pain in the backside to get off
without damaging your merchandise. Most stores are pretty careful
about removing those since they re-use them. It's the little ones
that are the ones that set off most alarms because the employees don't
bother to deactivate them.

On 13 May 2006 10:35:50 -0700, wrote:

Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
evidence may fall short of proof.

The courts have ruled that having the alarm go off is not sufficient
evidence of anything and won't stand up in court regardless. Ask the
security people in a store and they won't bother stopping someone
going through the door with an alarm, they know what the level of
evidence they have to take to court is, and that ain't it.

Brian Henderson wrote:
On 13 May 2006 10:35:50 -0700, wrote:

Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
evidence may fall short of proof.

The courts have ruled that having the alarm go off is not sufficient
evidence of anything and won't stand up in court regardless. Ask the
security people in a store and they won't bother stopping someone
going through the door with an alarm, they know what the level of
evidence they have to take to court is, and that ain't it.

The continous reduction of value added services and the unyeilding
increases in prices and profits are no excuse to walk away with 25
cents worth of metal goods marked up to $1.08.
You are expected to take the place of the cashier at no charge to the
company and above all do nothing to prevent the company from growing
and meeting its sales targets and showing stellar profits.

Your time and expertise is worth nothing - knave!

I can't figure out why you go there and then complain.
It's your duty for heavens sake!
Get with the program!

Bob

On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:32:10 GMT, Brian Henderson
wrote:

On 13 May 2006 10:25:51 -0700, wrote:

Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
while to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.

Which ones, the stick-on ones that they put inside DVDs and the like?
They just peel off. It's the big plastic things that you have to have
a special tool to remove that are a pain in the backside to get off
without damaging your merchandise. Most stores are pretty careful
about removing those since they re-use them. It's the little ones
that are the ones that set off most alarms because the employees don't
bother to deactivate them.

They also include them active in mail order DVDs. It's fun to put one in your
pocket then go shopping.

By Thu, 11 May 2006 15:01:25 -0600, Dave Balderstone
decided to post
" I stole from Home Depot!" to rec.woodworking:

In article , David
wrote:

They also check everyone's basket, not just spot checks. Therefore, I
don't feel singled out at Costco. Besides, the prices are so good, I'm
not gonna complain about them checking baskets at the exit...

Walmart here in S'toon only checks items that aren't bagged, ie larger
items in the cart. If the checker is right there, I don't mind the 2.5
seconds it takes to smile, say hello, and show her the receipt that has
the item highlighted by the checkout clerk, but if she's busy checking
someone else I just walk out the door (I'm certainly not going to queue
for them) and have never been chased after.

Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to ****
them off....

/..


--

find / -iname "*gw*" -exec rm -rf {} \;

In heaven, there is no beer,
That's why we drink it here,
And when we're all gone from here,
Our friends will be drinking all the beer!
-- Famous old Czech song about beer --

Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to ****
them off....

/..
What a ****ing moron!

Is it true that the chinese military owns Walmart . . . .? Sam Walton
didn't look a bit Chinese . . . These face transplants are getting out of
hand . . .



"TT" wrote in message
...


Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to ****
them off....

/..
What a ****ing moron!

TeamCasa wrote:
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.

The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the
bolts.
4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
hung out and observed the chaos.

Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to
summon
help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
what
I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
Still no assistance-droids.

Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
complete the transaction.

Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?

Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet, shop
at a place that has better customer service.
Dave

Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.

"Roy Smith"snip
Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?

TeamCasa wrote:
Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
shop
at a place that has better customer service.
Dave

redice said,
Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.

Nonsense.
No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
"Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"

Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Teamcasa wrote:

"Roy Smith"snip

Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?

TeamCasa wrote:
Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
shop
at a place that has better customer service.
Dave


redice said,
Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.


Nonsense.
No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
"Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"

Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com


LOL! I almost asked the poster earlier today to provide names and dates
of such arrests. Maybe he heard it from a friend who heard it from a
friend...

Dave

Teamcasa wrote:
"Roy Smith"snip
Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?

TeamCasa wrote:
Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
shop
at a place that has better customer service.
Dave

redice said,
Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.

Nonsense.
No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
"Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"


It may seem like there is a fine line between telling the manager,
I stole these last week but wan tto pay for them now, and
I got home and saw from the receipt that I hadn't paid for these
and want to pay for them now.

But the former is admitting to a crime while the latter stops
short of that and simply acknowledges that he owes the
store some money.

A third option is to carry them in and simply go through the
check-out counter and pay for them without saying anything,
which I think is what the advice suggested.

--

FF

By Thu, 25 May 2006 21:55:56 -0500, "Petrified Woodworker"
decided to post
" I stole from Home Depot!" to rec.woodworking:

Is it true that the chinese military owns Walmart . . . .? Sam Walton
didn't look a bit Chinese . . . These face transplants are getting out of
hand . . .



"TT" wrote in message
.. .


Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to ****
them off....

/..

You shop at Megalo Mart for crazy low prices.
Most, if not ALL, goods sold there are from China.
With their tremendous market power, they've driven
higher priced goods made elsewhere in the world
from their shelves.
Other stores that couldn't compete with them have
died out.

I bet you can easily stipulate to the above, eh,
aphorisms.

China produces a tremendous amount of low
priced, low quality goods.
The Chinese Communist party runs China.
The Chinese Military runs the CCP.

Well damn, it's too complicated for you!!

Sorry!!!!!!!

/..


--

find / -iname "*gw*" -exec rm -rf {} \;

In heaven, there is no beer,
That's why we drink it here,
And when we're all gone from here,
Our friends will be drinking all the beer!
-- Famous old Czech song about beer --