I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be made
from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

I meant to say should I provide support using a center rail not a 5th leg.


--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

In article , stoutman
.@. wrote:

Do I have to support this table top from the center to prevent sag?

Is there a structural advantage to *not* doing so?

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:230420061736483126%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , stoutman
.@. wrote:

Do I have to support this table top from the center to prevent sag?

Is there a structural advantage to *not* doing so?

No. I am just wondering if it should be a concern. I tend to over worry
about things.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs
are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have
to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will
be made
from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really
a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

Both

The top is going to be supported/attached on all four sides...it isn't
going to sag. However, if you were to whack it with a sledge hammer or
stack a bunch of concrete blocks on it, it might split so don't do
either.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Nope, you have skirts for that purpose. Now if you plan on using the table
for storage with a lot of weight another support between the skirts may not
hurt.


"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be
made from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

I thought the fifth leg would be rather novel. I would use a center rail.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I meant to say should I provide support using a center rail not a 5th leg.


--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:230420061736483126%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , stoutman
.@. wrote:

Do I have to support this table top from the center to prevent sag?

Is there a structural advantage to *not* doing so?

No. I am just wondering if it should be a concern. I tend to over worry
about things.

As a friend of mine commented about his arc welding once; "I'm not much for
pretty, but I'm hell for strong".(He was actually an excellent welder!) In
your case, "why not"?

I'm assuming the top grain will run the long way. Probably wouldn't sag, but
center support stop-dadoed into the side rails will add the support, and
won't be seen anyway.

(I also tend to over-engineer).

Good luck, lookin' fine so far.

--
Nahmie
The only road to success is always under construction.

I'm assuming the top grain will run the long way.

Yes.

Probably wouldn't sag, but center support stop-dadoed into the side rails
will add the support, and won't be seen anyway.

Problem is I already glued up the table frame. It was then that I strated
worrying about sag. If I throw in a center support rail I would probably
glue it in with just a but joint and add metal L brackets and screws on the
bottom and sides of the rail. What do ya think?


(I also tend to over-engineer).

Good luck, lookin' fine so far.

--
Nahmie
The only road to success is always under construction.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be
made from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

First, if it makes any difference to you, my degree is in mechanical
engineering with a concentration in materials engineering. My opinion is
that you do not need any additional support. Your end conditions won't
allow for much movement. If you hadn't already assembled the thing, I might
say "oh, what the hell", but I really wouldn't bother with it now.

I know you didn't ask, but I'm going to say that solely IMO, 3/4" finished
is too thin for a top this size. In fact, 3/4" is too thin for just about
any size. For my money, If I were doing it, I'd be starting at least with
5/4 and maybe 6/4. Just my $0.02. And it will minimize any sag ;-).

todd

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I'm assuming the top grain will run the long way.

Yes.

Probably wouldn't sag, but center support stop-dadoed into the side rails
will add the support, and won't be seen anyway.

Problem is I already glued up the table frame. It was then that I strated
worrying about sag. If I throw in a center support rail I would probably
glue it in with just a but joint and add metal L brackets and screws on
the bottom and sides of the rail. What do ya think?


(I also tend to over-engineer).

Good luck, lookin' fine so far.

--

Should work fine. Otherwise, do you have a bench you could put the frame up
on it's side? Then use a router for the stopped dadoes.

--
Nahmie
The only road to success is always under construction.

Sounds like a perfect place for pocket screws.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I'm assuming the top grain will run the long way.

Yes.

Probably wouldn't sag, but center support stop-dadoed into the side
rails
will add the support, and won't be seen anyway.

Problem is I already glued up the table frame. It was then that I strated
worrying about sag. If I throw in a center support rail I would probably
glue it in with just a but joint and add metal L brackets and screws on
the
bottom and sides of the rail. What do ya think?


(I also tend to over-engineer).

Good luck, lookin' fine so far.

--
Nahmie
The only road to success is always under construction.

Hey Stoutman,

Whats up with the painters tape on the skirt piece?

RangerPaul

--
Email replies to remove the "nospam_"
before you reply.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dream-designs


"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be
made from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

I suspect he's trying to avoid getting glue squeeze-out on the aprons (AKA
skirts). I seem to have mixed results with this.

todd

"Ranger Paul" wrote in message
...
Hey Stoutman,

Whats up with the painters tape on the skirt piece?

RangerPaul

--
Email replies to remove the "nospam_"
before you reply.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dream-designs


"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be
made from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

"todd" wrote in message
...
I suspect he's trying to avoid getting glue squeeze-out on the aprons (AKA
skirts). I seem to have mixed results with this.

todd

Yep, helps with glue squeeze out. I use to put in on the legs as well
around the mortise, but one time I put it on to close to the mortise and a
little bit of blue tape got pinned underneath the tenon. I didn't notice it
until after the glue dried. I could never get it all off. If you look
really close at one of my pieces you can see a tiny piece of blue tape in
between the tenon and leg. Oops!

Now I only wrap it around the tenon. It speeds up clean up time a little.

In article ,
"stoutman" .@. wrote:

Problem is I already glued up the table frame. It was then that I strated
worrying about sag. If I throw in a center support rail I would probably
glue it in with just a but joint and add metal L brackets and screws on the
bottom and sides of the rail. What do ya think?

Great spot for some pocket screws... and glue.
Another method would be to rabbet a couple of cleats onto the ends of
the cross-support and attaching that in a 'T' fashion with a couple of
proper screws to the end grain. then screw the 'flange' to the inside of
the skirt on both ends.

"stoutman" .@. wrote:

Problem is I already glued up the table frame. It was then that I strated
worrying about sag. If I throw in a center support rail I would probably
glue it in with just a but joint and add metal L brackets and screws on
the
bottom and sides of the rail. What do ya think?

I had a similar situation once, only I forgot to insert a centre support
rail when I installed the entire face frame assembly. What I ended up doing
was cut a centre support rail to size, fitted it to ensure it was of proper
length and then used biscuits to glue it into place. Since I couldn't insert
both biscuits and support rail considering the tightness of the fittings, I
made top and bottom cuts with the biscuit joiner, with the top ones being
slightly off to one side. I could fit and glue the bottom one properly in
place but the top one I put the support rail in place and then with glue
applied, slid the biscuit into place. Naturally, it was proud on the offset
side, but after the glue dried, I trimmed the proud part off and it was
virtually unnoticeable unless I leaned over and looked up at the bottom side
of the rail. Worked like a charm.

Since it's a dining table, why didn't you build it with dteachable legs so
it could be moved, i.e. to another house/owner?????

R

Not sure. I know i can get it in my back door with the top off and attach
the top once inside.

I never made a table with detachable legs. I guess I could have used bed
rail hardware.

Oh well. I just hope my next home has a back door (french doors?) near the
kitchen.

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)
"Rumpty" wrote in message
news:kH63g.868$Te.561@trndny04...
Since it's a dining table, why didn't you build it with dteachable legs so
it could be moved, i.e. to another house/owner?????

R

I always overengineer everything too so I vote for reinforcement of
some kind.

By the way, I have the exact same table saw as you. I snapped the
trunion and I have upgraded most everything on it over time but it's
been great through the years...

http://www.ccsi.com/~mbrown/Woodwork...shop_tour.html

Mike Brown

todd said:
snip
I know you didn't ask, but I'm going to say that solely IMO, 3/4" finished
is too thin for a top this size. In fact, 3/4" is too thin for just about
any size. For my money, If I were doing it, I'd be starting at least with
5/4 and maybe 6/4. Just my $0.02. And it will minimize any sag ;-).

Stoutman,
FWIW, I agree with todd 5/4 would look better. 3/4" is so mundane. I try
to avoid using it whenever I can.

Dave

By the way, I have the exact same table saw as you. I snapped the
trunion and I have upgraded most everything on it over time but it's
been great through the years...

It is a good saw. I think I am ready for an upgrade though!

I think it is a little funny that we both moved the two side extension wings
to the left side and put in a router table on the right! I thought I was
being original with this saw when I did that!

Thanks for the feedback...

"Teamcasa" wrote in message
...
todd said:

Stoutman,
FWIW, I agree with todd 5/4 would look better. 3/4" is so mundane. I try
to avoid using it whenever I can.

Dave

It is all in how you treat the edges. With the right profile router bit you
can make the 3/4" appear thicker or thinner.

"Rumpty" wrote in message
news:kH63g.868$Te.561@trndny04...
Since it's a dining table, why didn't you build it with dteachable legs so
it could be moved, i.e. to another house/owner?????


Geez, did you stay gone long enough. LOL Did that kitchen get the best of
you?

BTY I built a butcher block table that had legs that were longer than the
door was wide. Tip the table 90 degrees and go out with the bottoms of the
legs and clock around with the bottom of the opposite legs coming out last.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
. ..
Not sure. I know i can get it in my back door with the top off and attach
the top once inside.

I never made a table with detachable legs. I guess I could have used bed
rail hardware.

Oh well. I just hope my next home has a back door (french doors?) near
the kitchen.


Clock the table so that the top is vertical and then start with the bottoms
of the legs going out first. You will figure the rest out at that point.

How can you work in that shop?!?!?!?!?!

Comeon, there ain't a speck of sawdust anywhere.....I bet you just
collect tools, right?



wrote:

I always overengineer everything too so I vote for reinforcement of
some kind.

By the way, I have the exact same table saw as you. I snapped the
trunion and I have upgraded most everything on it over time but it's
been great through the years...

http://www.ccsi.com/~mbrown/Woodwork...shop_tour.html

Mike Brown

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 20:14:39 -0500, "todd" wrote:

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
I am making a cherry dining table for my wife (her design!). The legs are
made from solid 12/4 cherry and are tapered.

Question. The table measures 36" X 54" from rail to rail. Do I have to
support this table top from the center to prevent sag? The top will be
made from 4/4 solid cherry milled down to 0.75" - 0.8"

I know I would usually consult "The Sagulator", but this isn't really a
shelf.

Am I insane or should this not be a concern? Or both?

You can see my progress he

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Cherry_Table.htm

Thank you!

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

First, if it makes any difference to you, my degree is in mechanical
engineering with a concentration in materials engineering. My opinion is
that you do not need any additional support. Your end conditions won't
allow for much movement. If you hadn't already assembled the thing, I might
say "oh, what the hell", but I really wouldn't bother with it now.

I know you didn't ask, but I'm going to say that solely IMO, 3/4" finished
is too thin for a top this size. In fact, 3/4" is too thin for just about
any size. For my money, If I were doing it, I'd be starting at least with
5/4 and maybe 6/4. Just my $0.02. And it will minimize any sag ;-).

todd


For what its worth, I came to the same basic conclusion as Todd before
reading down this far. IMO, the top will look weak at 0.75~0.8".
And, going 6/4 would alleviate the issues related to strength.

Thas $0.04 now...

How many books do you plan to pile on it?
Bugs

"Teamcasa" Stoutman,
FWIW, I agree with todd 5/4 would look better. 3/4" is so mundane. I
try to avoid using it whenever I can.
Dave

"Leon"
It is all in how you treat the edges. With the right profile router bit
you can make the 3/4" appear thicker or thinner.
Agreed - to a point. With a slight taper it will appear somewhat thicker.
However, 3/4" is still boring. Todd could still add a edge/skirt to the top
to make it appear heavier.

Dave



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