Several years ago, I made a tool list that seemed like a mountain. But
thanks to some overtime, I'm down to only four large tools left.
(before I start doing other things like upgrading to a cabinet saw or
maybe a large resaw or cyclone DC). The candidates a

Grizzly G0453 15" planer with cast iron infeed/outfeed tables
Grizzly G0512 edge sander with the big melamine table
Grizzly G1071 oscillating spindle sander
Performax 22/44 drum sander

I should add that I already have a delta benchtop planer and a delta
6x48 belt/disk sander.

I've already bought rough-sawn wood for several large furniture
projects I'm about to embark on. And the overtime mixed with the sale
of a car should allow the purchase of one or two of the machines listed
above.

I'm not looking forward to planing the wood I have, and I don't have
the dust shroud. i could make one, or it may still be available. Or I
could just replace it. That's a vote for the planer.

The edge sander won't get much use in the projects I'm about to do
since they don't have drawers. But the doors I make are likely to be
set into the frame. If I screw up the size of the doors, or even if I
don't, the edge sander will really help to dial in the fit.

The OSS would really help to take advantage of the band saw, as would
the drum sander. I can think of a couple places where I could use both
in the upcoming projects. If I had the performax, I'd be more likely
to attempt to venir some curly maple onto the panels in the door.

So which should it be? Feel free to suggest a different machine if
there's a good price/performance ratio or other cool feature. I
already have most of the other normal shop power tools.

brian

brianlanning wrote:
So which should it be? Feel free to suggest a different machine if
there's a good price/performance ratio or other cool feature. I
already have most of the other normal shop power tools.

I built lots of stuff before I had a cabinet saw. Even before I had a
RAS. Or a bandsaw. Or a joiner. I had no effective way of doing what
I can now do with my Performax.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I built lots of stuff before I had a cabinet saw. Even before I had a
RAS. Or a bandsaw. Or a joiner. I had no effective way of doing what
I can now do with my Performax.

So your vote is for the 22/44? I'm thinking about mainly sanding table
tops and cabinet doors. David marks uses his to sand small stuff like
inlays or veneers, I can see doing that also. What else do you use
yours for? Where do you get your sandpaper?

brian

So which should it be? Feel free to suggest a different machine if
there's a good price/performance ratio or other cool feature. I
already have most of the other normal shop power tools.

I don't mean this as sarcasm, but if you don't know what tool you need, you
probably don't need a tool; you just need to use the ones you have more.
Then you will find out what is missing, if anything.

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Several years ago, I made a tool list that seemed like a mountain. But
thanks to some overtime, I'm down to only four large tools left.
(before I start doing other things like upgrading to a cabinet saw or
maybe a large resaw or cyclone DC). The candidates a

Before I make suggestions, as usual you should probably not buy a tool if
you cannot decide. You will always need the other one in the list. However
this is how it worked out for me.

Grizzly G0453 15" planer with cast iron infeed/outfeed tables

A large planer is nice to have however IMHO the small ones do a good job
slowly. I used a single small planer for 15 years and finally upgraded to a
larger 15" Delta . What I was most concerned about over greater capacity
was planer speed. Many of the larger stationary planers are not much faster
than the portables. I see that the model that you are looking at goes up to
30 fpm. IMHO that is good. I saw a lot of big ones only go from 16 to 20.
Not a real improvement IMHO.

Grizzly G0512 edge sander with the big melamine table

After tweaking my TS and using a premium quality blade I seldom have to edge
sand at all. Some times a quick pass or two with my Steve Knight Smoother
and all is well.

Grizzly G1071 oscillating spindle sander

A luxury item that I thought would be nice. I bought one last year and use
it more odd ball situations than I would have imagined. Not only on wood.


Performax 22/44 drum sander

Nice if you build lots of panels or cabinet doors. I have redone probably
10-12 kitchens and bathrooms and still don't have one.


I should add that I already have a delta benchtop planer and a delta
6x48 belt/disk sander.

If you have a LOT of rough cut lumber the bigger planer will make the work
easier and some what quieter.



I've already bought rough-sawn wood for several large furniture
projects I'm about to embark on. And the overtime mixed with the sale
of a car should allow the purchase of one or two of the machines listed
above.



I'm not looking forward to planing the wood I have, and I don't have
the dust shroud. i could make one, or it may still be available. Or I
could just replace it. That's a vote for the planer.

I think I planed 6 boards on my small planer out of 50 rough cut Oak boards
and almost immediately bought the larger Delta planer.


The edge sander won't get much use in the projects I'm about to do
since they don't have drawers. But the doors I make are likely to be
set into the frame. If I screw up the size of the doors, or even if I
don't, the edge sander will really help to dial in the fit.

I always use the TS to clean up the tops and bottoms of the cabinet doors
where the rails and stiles meet. Build the doors slightly bigger than the
opening and then trim to fit. This removes clamp marks and glue ooze.
Typically you do not notice a door rail or stile being 1/8 to narrower.

Brian,

I think that your question is flawed. If you don't know what you want next,
it's just speculation. Wait until you are in the midst of a project (or
planning something specific) and you say... This would be so much
faster/easier/accurate/possible if I had an XYZ.

Grizzly G0453 15" planer with cast iron infeed/outfeed tables

Upgrading from a lunchbox to a 15 is going to get you throughput and a very
marginal increase in width capacity. It's not going to get you a cleaner
cut. A pro shop can justify this based on time savings. I sure can't. What's
this about no dust shroud on your current planer? I used to plane on the
absence of dust collection... I really don't want to do that again.
Replacing a planer to enable dust collection seems a bit extreme to me.

Grizzly G0512 edge sander with the big melamine table

This too, strikes me as a production tool that saves valuable time, but does
not provide a unique function. As far as trimming is concerned, a table saw
or a hand plane will do a pretty good job in that department.

Grizzly G1071 oscillating spindle sander

If, you do a fair amount of curved cutting on your BS, this can be
worthwhile. But, you yourself have said that need is a bit speculative.

Performax 22/44 drum sander

I can't think if another way to do veneer prep. Otherwise it's also a time
saver. Although I have never owned one so it may have applications of which
I am unaware.

I think you should keep you wallet in your pocket for now. Sooner rather
than later, a project will dictate the answer to your question.

Cheers,

Steve

But personally, I'd rather swim underwater in a pool of panther
**** than give up my sander.

Thanks for the visual. :-)

Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do and whatever you already
have

I would probably leave the dimentioning to the planer, but maybe I
would like the performax more once I had it.

Why not finish sand? can't you put 320 grit on it and take an
ultra-light pass at the end?

brian

I got my Performax 22x44 drum sander about 10 years ago. It came with a
2 inch dust port, that's how old it is. I make furniture, and do a lot
of turning. The biggest problem that I had with it, was that it would
constantly bog down on wider projects. I fixed this on a recomendation
from my dad, who is a mechanical engineer, and has a smaller model. It
comes with a 1 1/2 hp motor, and runs on a 110v circuit. I had the
motor rewired for 220 (note this requires a separate on/off switch for
the motor, and keep the old one for the feed belt drive. No bogging
down ever. If I am doing several tables at once, I will take them, and
have them comercially done because it is so much faster. In 30 minutes,
they can do what will take me about 2 hours or more with my machine. I
do use it a lot for final sanding of all of my stretchers, and rails. I
do run the pieces through a couple of times (2 to 4 times) before
lowering the thickness, especially for the final grits. I don't
consider the machine to be a production machine, but it really helps in
the shop. The planer is the roughing machine, and the sander is the
finish machine.
robo hippy

I don't mean this as sarcasm, but if you don't know what tool you need, you
probably don't need a tool; you just need to use the ones you have more.
Then you will find out what is missing, if anything.

Actually, I sort of need (ha!) them all. At this point though, it's a
matter of priorities. I'm finding that I'm limiting projects based on
tools I have or don't have. I'm building the shop I plan to have for
the next four decades and I sort of want it to be complete. I can also
see buying a tool now if it's on sale or something because I'm likely
to find new uses for it once I have a chance to play with it.

And I guess I'm half-way fishing for ideas that maybe I hadn't thought
of or maybe for someone to suggest a machine that I hadn't considered.

brian

Upgrading from a lunchbox to a 15 is going to get you throughput and a very
marginal increase in width capacity. It's not going to get you a cleaner
cut.

Yeah, like leon said, it should be quieter and a little faster. I
guess that's my real goal. I'm not really in a hurry though and I
should be wearing ear plugs anyway.

What's
this about no dust shroud on your current planer? I used to plane on the
absence of dust collection... I really don't want to do that again.

When I first started woodworking, I picked up half a dozen benchtop
tools. Most were junk, but the planer was good so I kept it. I never
got the dust shroud though because I didn't know any better. I had
constant problems with chips passing under the roller and denting the
wood. Five years later, I know what the expect and have a dust
collector. I'll have to look for the dust shroud. Maybe if I hook
that up i'll be happy with the planer.

Replacing a planer to enable dust collection seems a bit extreme to me.

That wouldn't be the only reason. I don't really need the extra
capacity, except maybe to run boards through at an angle if I need to.
The guess my point was why spend time/money on the dust shroud for the
portable if I'm just going to get the bigger one.

I can't think if another way to do veneer prep. Otherwise it's also a time
saver. Although I have never owned one so it may have applications of which
I am unaware.

I'm starting to lean toward this machine now.

I think you should keep you wallet in your pocket for now. Sooner rather
than later, a project will dictate the answer to your question.

I guess I'm going at this with a different attitude. Rather than get
stuck because I'm missing a machine, only buying it when I absolutely
need it, I tend to avoid certain things if I don't have the right
machine. For example, I haven't gotten anywhere near the use out of my
bandsaw that I thought I would because I don't have the performax or
the OSS. I really hate hand sanding so I'm more likely to cut things
square for example than put a nice curve into a table leg or apron or
something. So I can imagine the types of things that I would be able
to do more efficiently with the new tool, which affects when I buy
what.

brian

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Several years ago, I made a tool list that seemed like a mountain. But
thanks to some overtime, I'm down to only four large tools left.
(before I start doing other things like upgrading to a cabinet saw or
maybe a large resaw or cyclone DC). The candidates a



If you don't have a project that requires a new tool, and are looking to
spend money, I would invest in wood. Find a good supplier and purchase some
quality wood in the species that you like working with.

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't mean this as sarcasm, but if you don't know what tool you need,
you
probably don't need a tool; you just need to use the ones you have more.
Then you will find out what is missing, if anything.

Actually, I sort of need (ha!) them all. At this point though, it's a
matter of priorities. I'm finding that I'm limiting projects based on
tools I have or don't have. I'm building the shop I plan to have for
the next four decades and I sort of want it to be complete. I can also
see buying a tool now if it's on sale or something because I'm likely
to find new uses for it once I have a chance to play with it.

Okay, what projects are you limiting because you are missing a tool?
With me it would be a bandsaw if I couldn't borrow use of one.

But if you want my opinion, my latest acquisition is a 16/32, and I love it.
I got by before, but finished products were never really flat.

"robo hippy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I got my Performax 22x44 drum sander about 10 years ago. It came with a
2 inch dust port, that's how old it is. I make furniture, and do a lot
of turning. The biggest problem that I had with it, was that it would
constantly bog down on wider projects. I fixed this on a recomendation
from my dad, who is a mechanical engineer, and has a smaller model. It
comes with a 1 1/2 hp motor, and runs on a 110v circuit. I had the
motor rewired for 220 (note this requires a separate on/off switch for
the motor, and keep the old one for the feed belt drive. No bogging
down ever. If I am doing several tables at once, I will take them, and
have them comercially done because it is so much faster. In 30 minutes,
they can do what will take me about 2 hours or more with my machine. I
do use it a lot for final sanding of all of my stretchers, and rails. I
do run the pieces through a couple of times (2 to 4 times) before
lowering the thickness, especially for the final grits. I don't
consider the machine to be a production machine, but it really helps in
the shop. The planer is the roughing machine, and the sander is the
finish machine.
robo hippy

I thought about that. Did you put a separate cord also, or are you using
half of the 240v for the 120v? If so, are you using a neutral or the
ground? The ground works for my clothes dryer and oven, but I can't bring
myself to do it elsewhere.

Okay, what projects are you limiting because you are missing a tool?
With me it would be a bandsaw if I couldn't borrow use of one.

I bought a 14" delta bandsaw with the riser block so that I could cut
curves and resaw stock down to get 1/4" stock without having to plane
most of it away. I also wanted to be able to do veneers when I was
ready. Then I discovered that to really do veneers, you should be
running them through a drum sander after you cut them because the
planers usually can't go down that thin. I also saw david marks
running thin stuff like inlays through the drum sander to make them the
right size. I suppose I could have flattened/sanded/scraped those
things down to the right sizes, but it would be so much nicer to have
the machine.

I haven't made any tables yet where the top was entirely wood. I've
set tile in the middle and bordered it with wood. It's going to happen
sooner or later though since my wife is already asking for a new
kitchen table. Like I said, I hate sanding. And anything to speed
that up can only help.

As for the curve cuts, I think the oss would make them much more
enjoyable for me. I'm about to make an over-the-toilet wall hanging
cabinet type contraption. I had considered different ways of working a
magazine rack into the bottom of it. I thought the best way would be
to continue the sides of the cabinet down and attach some angled boards
to hold the magazines upright. I thought it would be a good design
element to curve the cabinet sides at the bottom to follow the boards
that hold the magazines. The oss would help that situation a lot, but
without the oss, I found myself thinking about ways that I could get
away from the curved cuts. I guess with the combination of the BS and
OSS, I'll want to experiment with something other than straight lines.

But if you want my opinion, my latest acquisition is a 16/32, and I love it.
I got by before, but finished products were never really flat.

There have been a few votes for the performax so I'm sort of leaning
that way.

brian

brianlanning wrote:

Why not finish sand? can't you put 320 grit on it and take an
ultra-light pass at the end?

Maybe, dunno, never bothered to try. The finest grit I normally use is
120. I have used 180 on occasion and even that needs a very light
touch. For me, finish sanding would be more trouble than it is
worth...rather do it with a 1/3 sheet sander or by hand.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

My advice is forget about all the sanders....get the planer, however go for
a general 15" instead, its cheaper and has fixed table height with the head
moving up and down....the benefit being that on longer planks you can set up
some outfeed side rollers to catch your boards and not have to constantly
adjust the height. If you must do the sander get a general 24" dual
drum....the drums are supported at both sides and the machine will do a
better job and have less bearing problems, its also a good price and it has
a rubber belt not sandpaper. The reality is after you run your boards
through the planer you wont have to sand them anyway.
"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Several years ago, I made a tool list that seemed like a mountain. But
thanks to some overtime, I'm down to only four large tools left.
(before I start doing other things like upgrading to a cabinet saw or
maybe a large resaw or cyclone DC). The candidates a

Grizzly G0453 15" planer with cast iron infeed/outfeed tables
Grizzly G0512 edge sander with the big melamine table
Grizzly G1071 oscillating spindle sander
Performax 22/44 drum sander

I should add that I already have a delta benchtop planer and a delta
6x48 belt/disk sander.

I've already bought rough-sawn wood for several large furniture
projects I'm about to embark on. And the overtime mixed with the sale
of a car should allow the purchase of one or two of the machines listed
above.

I'm not looking forward to planing the wood I have, and I don't have
the dust shroud. i could make one, or it may still be available. Or I
could just replace it. That's a vote for the planer.

The edge sander won't get much use in the projects I'm about to do
since they don't have drawers. But the doors I make are likely to be
set into the frame. If I screw up the size of the doors, or even if I
don't, the edge sander will really help to dial in the fit.

The OSS would really help to take advantage of the band saw, as would
the drum sander. I can think of a couple places where I could use both
in the upcoming projects. If I had the performax, I'd be more likely
to attempt to venir some curly maple onto the panels in the door.

So which should it be? Feel free to suggest a different machine if
there's a good price/performance ratio or other cool feature. I
already have most of the other normal shop power tools.

brian