When I learned woodwork there only was a choice of two glues. Now I need
some info about alternatives. This is what I am doing:

Involved in the restoration of a very old building I am repairing oak window
frames. A long job of scarfing and letting in new pieces of oak and jointing
in new sills. I was using pva but the recent low temperatures have given me
a lot of grief. The night time temperatures in the barn/workshop are around
freezing and the glue doesn't work.

I don't like the idea of Cascamite (urea formaldehyde?) because I need a lot
of small quantities of glue through the day, so I don't want to mix up a
batch with a short life. Also I was keen to have a little movement in the
glue between the old and new timber. I have never used polyurethane or epoxy
or animal glue or electric glue curing devices and there are probably other
options I have never heard of.

Seeking knowledgable advice or web pages/pdfs. Low temps, small quantities,
weather resistace, old to new. Clamping times are not an issue, brute
strength is not an issue, joints can be made reasonably close but they are
hand cut and often saw cuts to be glued so there is gap-bridging and crack
filling to consider.

Tim W

Sounds like a good application for 2 part epoxy. There are many varieties
on the market. The main difference is working time and whether the mix has
to be exact. I get "non-critical" 1:1 mixes which means theye ideally want
1 part of resin to 1 part of hardener, but if you mix differently it will
still cure but may take more, or less time.

It is easy to find 5 min vs 20 vs 60 minute working time.

Lee Valley has a decent selection of glues.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,110&p=42965

Dave Paine.


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
When I learned woodwork there only was a choice of two glues. Now I need
some info about alternatives. This is what I am doing:

Involved in the restoration of a very old building I am repairing oak
window
frames. A long job of scarfing and letting in new pieces of oak and
jointing
in new sills. I was using pva but the recent low temperatures have given
me
a lot of grief. The night time temperatures in the barn/workshop are
around
freezing and the glue doesn't work.

I don't like the idea of Cascamite (urea formaldehyde?) because I need a
lot
of small quantities of glue through the day, so I don't want to mix up a
batch with a short life. Also I was keen to have a little movement in the
glue between the old and new timber. I have never used polyurethane or
epoxy
or animal glue or electric glue curing devices and there are probably
other
options I have never heard of.

Seeking knowledgable advice or web pages/pdfs. Low temps, small
quantities,
weather resistace, old to new. Clamping times are not an issue, brute
strength is not an issue, joints can be made reasonably close but they are
hand cut and often saw cuts to be glued so there is gap-bridging and crack
filling to consider.

Tim W

Tim W wrote:
When I learned woodwork there only was a choice of two glues. Now I
need some info about alternatives. This is what I am doing:

Involved in the restoration of a very old building I am repairing oak
window frames. A long job of scarfing and letting in new pieces of
oak and jointing in new sills. I was using pva but the recent low
temperatures have given me a lot of grief. The night time
temperatures in the barn/workshop are around freezing and the glue
doesn't work.

I don't like the idea of Cascamite (urea formaldehyde?) because I
need a lot of small quantities of glue through the day, so I don't
want to mix up a batch with a short life. Also I was keen to have a
little movement in the glue between the old and new timber. I have
never used polyurethane or epoxy or animal glue or electric glue
curing devices and there are probably other options I have never
heard of.

Seeking knowledgable advice or web pages/pdfs. Low temps, small
quantities, weather resistace, old to new. Clamping times are not an
issue, brute strength is not an issue, joints can be made reasonably
close but they are hand cut and often saw cuts to be glued so there
is gap-bridging and crack filling to consider.

No real recommendation here, just mind doodlings...

My favorite general purpose glue is TiteBond ll. Water resistant,
reasonable flexibility but doubt it would be good in low temp (fine
after setting). TiteBond 3 is totally waterproof, same reservation.
Both need reasonably good joints, wood to wood.

For gap bridging, epoxy with the addition of Cabosil as a thickener is
wonderful. Very strong, no clamping needed, waterproof. However,
useable pot life is short - if you don't like Cascamite's you would hate
epoxy's. It also requires warmth (60+) to cure - that could be fixed
with a space heater? You mitigate the pot life by cutting a bunch of
joints, mixing some epoxy and gluing a bunch at one time. Good
source...
http://www.uscomposites.com/

In lieu of epoxy you might be able to use polyester or vinylester. Pot
life is very short (variable depending on how much catalyst is used) but
that could be an advantage since you could use a hot mix and not have to
worry about low temps...unlike epoxy which gradually sets up over
several hours, they set up very rapidly once they start. Same source as
the epoxy.

There is also polyurethane glue. Needs moisture to cure so the low
temps might kill it for you. It is good at bridging and is strong but I
personally dislike the stuff - it foams.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Epoxy cures by chemical reaction. That reaction is slowed by low
temperatures. How long do you want to wait?

"Tyke" wrote in message
...
Sounds like a good application for 2 part epoxy. There are many varieties
on the market. The main difference is working time and whether the mix
has
to be exact. I get "non-critical" 1:1 mixes which means theye ideally
want
1 part of resin to 1 part of hardener, but if you mix differently it will
still cure but may take more, or less time.

It is easy to find 5 min vs 20 vs 60 minute working time.

Lee Valley has a decent selection of glues.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,110&p=42965

Dave Paine.


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
When I learned woodwork there only was a choice of two glues. Now I need
some info about alternatives. This is what I am doing:

Involved in the restoration of a very old building I am repairing oak
window
frames. A long job of scarfing and letting in new pieces of oak and
jointing
in new sills. I was using pva but the recent low temperatures have given
me
a lot of grief. The night time temperatures in the barn/workshop are
around
freezing and the glue doesn't work.

I don't like the idea of Cascamite (urea formaldehyde?) because I need a
lot
of small quantities of glue through the day, so I don't want to mix up a
batch with a short life. Also I was keen to have a little movement in
the
glue between the old and new timber. I have never used polyurethane or
epoxy
or animal glue or electric glue curing devices and there are probably
other
options I have never heard of.

Seeking knowledgable advice or web pages/pdfs. Low temps, small
quantities,
weather resistace, old to new. Clamping times are not an issue, brute
strength is not an issue, joints can be made reasonably close but they
are
hand cut and often saw cuts to be glued so there is gap-bridging and
crack
filling to consider.

Tim W

A mastic might work for you. I'm thinking of Liquid nails or
similar...even an acrylic caulk. Much would depend on how important
appearance is to you (paint/no paint) and how much strength you need.

Something like that would at least solve the gap filling/low temp
problems.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:NN_Lf.220$3W5.26@trnddc02...
A mastic might work for you. I'm thinking of Liquid nails or
similar...even an acrylic caulk. Much would depend on how important
appearance is to you (paint/no paint) and how much strength you need.

Something like that would at least solve the gap filling/low temp
problems.

Hm, the oak is to be painted, but I am concerned about permanence and
adhesion. these windows are 300 yrs old (which is why they are repaired and
not replaced) and when they go back in the house I want them to be good for
another 200yrs at least of winter/summer night/day sun/frost. I know you say
you don't like the polyurethanes but my reading suggests they may work well.
Especially their strength in end grain joints. A lot of these windows I have
to cut off the rotted lower end of the stiles and scarf in a new piece. Why
is the foaming a problem?

Tim W

"CW" wrote in message
.net...
Epoxy cures by chemical reaction. That reaction is slowed by low
temperatures. How long do you want to wait?

I don't mind cramping and leaving for 24hrs, although just overnight would
be better. The problem I have with the PVA is instead of drying clear and
hard it is drying at low temperature to a white chalky paste which sticks
not at all. It would be alright if it was just a bit slow.

Tim W

Tim W wrote:
Why is the
foaming a problem?

Nuisance, messy....

Some urethane info...
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1064


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

most glues don't work well below 50 degrees. a faster cure epoxy would
be one way to go. or make a tent of plastic with some light bulbs in
it. that should work. anything below 50 and yellow glues get pretty
weak. if the wood is cold the glue does not spread well and you need
more clamping force too. otherwise the clamps can fall off and you
know the joints are not tight.
one way aroudn this is to clamps up then in 5 minutes check the clamp
pressure.