Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:01am (EST-3) (jtpr) sayeth:
snipYou should know better.

Who should? The point it probably best stated by Mike Marlow's
post.



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

wrote:
Actually JOAT, a child or person who is drowning or choking makes no
noise at all. Is that too blunt?

That's consistent with "If you can't hear them, they're getting into
trouble"

Any links to recommended hinge types? Or are these door closers, and
not actually hinges?

Thanks!

wrote:
I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana

Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. Thank you for taking my
word. News around here travels more by word of mouth than the media.
The local paper comes out tomorrow. There may be something in there.
I'll post if something comes up. The news was fairly vague on the TV. I
have a friend who was on the first responder call but am not going to
call her. I'm sure there are privacy rules. I wasn't able to find the
story on KTTC. They don't have archives...or I can't find them. Maybe
someone else can. Anyway, I'm not in the mood to search anymore (&*(&*
dial up). The accident happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. Local paper
is the LIme Springs Herald and the next larger town has the Cresco
Times.

My objective in posting this was for some peace of mind. I'm sincerely
appreciate those of you who stopped and thought about it and took the
time to support my post. . I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who
made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll.
You also assumed no one was paying any attention to this child what so
ever. It makes me nautious to think of the guilt this aunt is going
through. Why on earth would somebody make up a story like this?!!! And
use their real name and email to boot? Jana

George wrote:
"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
I meant blanket chests and the like.


Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under the
sink.

Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
by playmates or siblings.

In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
locks when the lid closes.

--

FF

On 01/02/2006 1:28 PM, Mike Reed wrote:

Any links to recommended hinge types? Or are these door closers, and
not actually hinges?

e.g. http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...48&cat=3,41427

There's lots of others. DAGS 'lid support'.

Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 8:12am (EST-3)
snip It was on the Rochester, MN news channel (KTTC.com). They usually
have links to their stories.

Well, I've not found anything on it. Anyone else have better luck?



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

JOAT, Two things my Grandpa always told me....don't get into a ****ing
fight with a skunk and....when you're pointing your finger at someone,
there's 3 pointing back at yourself. This is my last reply to you. Jana

George wrote:

...

The top is for adults. I wouldn't bother with one for the purpose of
holding toys out of the middle of the floor. Pneumatics, hydraulics and
springs fail as well. Is the sight of those toys so disturbing that you'd
risk a kid? Not me. Add a lid after the kid's grown or use a temporary
table top that stores behind if you need the thing as furniture.

No lid on a toy chest, or sliding doors are great ideas.

If you do really good work the chest will outlive you
and the people for whom it was built. So a solution
that eliminates the hazard for children and is acceptable
for adults is ideal. I like your the idea of simply setting
a top on the chest, no hinges, no latches.

Personally, remembering the episode of Dragnet where
Sgt Joe Friday read a junkyard owner the riot act (actually
he quoted the applicable California code and section
from memory) about the requirement to remove the latch
from an old refrigerator, except for shipping trunks, I would
not put a lock or latch on any chest or trunk big enough for
a child to hide in. Cabinets tend not to be airtight.

--

FF

J T wrote:
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 2:45am (EST+5)
(John B) sayeth:
Yep,
Little ones are like greased lightening. Blink and they're into no good
or somewhere they shouldn't.
Lot's of things in life shouldn't happen, but they do. As my Dad says "
Better to be wrong and alive than dead and right" regards

Never heard that one before

Probably because there are fewer examples of
people who died becasue they were right or lived
because they were wrong are a bit scarcer than
vice-versa, politics excluded.

--

FF

wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:
"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
I meant blanket chests and the like.


Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under
the
sink.

Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
by playmates or siblings.

In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
locks when the lid closes.


Oh, learn something once in a while Fred.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/kids-equipme...cks-pack-of-6/

Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:39am (EST-3) now sayeth:
Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. snip The accident
happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. snip I'm extremely disturbed by
those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a
liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to
this child what so ever.snip

Well, now that I got told the corect state, I was able to track
this down.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/app...601300339/1010

I didn't see anything ther about getting knocked unconscious, etc.
But, it doesn't say how the lid got unlatched, then open, either -
especially with it automatically latching when the lid closed. Makes me
wonder if the lid was already open.

My memory must be failing me - because I don't recall any remarks
that "I" would have called particularly rude; and, I sure don't recall
reading where anyone called you a liar, or a troll. Or even implied
such. Maybe I just skipped over those parts tho. The article does say
the aunt was getting ready for work, and the mother was napping, which
to me, shows no one was really paying much attention. Sure makes me
wonder about that chest tho.

No way you're gonna keep a kid from getting hurt. And, no way you
can keep an eye on them 24/7. But, you can sure try to keep them safe
from the lethal stuff. You got a little kid visiting, it's pretty much a
given you go around, and put anything breakable, or dangerous to them,
up and, hopefully, out of their reach. The kid visits often, you put
kiddy latches on your cabinets. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to
lock a chest, or shut the door to the room it's in - at least make some
sort of an effort.



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, wrote:

The papers are pretty slow around here since the local
newspapers only run once a week. It was on the Rochester, MN news
channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.

Thanks. I'll write to them for more detail, unless you can find the
direct link to the story to save some trouble. I need to know because
I'm wondering about the forces involved. The one I built has
slow-closers, and offset squares on the sides for ventilation. it is
solid! Beech 1.5" square for corners. Top and bottom 1x2 Beech trim
around 3/4" oak veneer particle board. Sides same oak filler.
Overall size about 28" cube. It was intended for parents to store
toys, not a 2 yr old. The offset squares for ventilation can be
removed, and the spacers discarded then applied flush for future use.
I originally thought of a hatchback closer from a wreckers [I got one
for a couple of dollars], but that was way overboard. Lee Valley to
the rescue.

On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, wrote:

It was on the Rochester, MN news
channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.

Never mind. I couldn't find the link, so I've written.

On 1 Feb 2006 10:39:47 -0800, wrote:

I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who
made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll.

Stop pouting. Nobody called you anything. You were merely asked for
a pointer to an outside source. That is not out of line. Since it
was so recent and so close to home, where would be a better source to
ask than from you? Since you brought it up, it is incidental though
that there have been a lot of trolling from Ohio state in various
newsgroups.

"J T" wrote in message
...
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:39am (EST-3) now sayeth:
Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. snip The accident
happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. snip I'm extremely disturbed by
those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a
liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to
this child what so ever.snip

Well, now that I got told the corect state, I was able to track
this down.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/app...601300339/1010


OK - well that at least explains how everything happened. Closers wouldn't
have helped this situation though. Looks like keeping the chest closed and
latched would have been the only thing that would have prevented this.

--

-Mike-

On 1 Feb 2006 08:23:01 -0800, wrote:

Actually JOAT, a child or person who is drowning or choking makes no
noise at all. Is that too blunt?

might be why he said to check on them if they're too quiet...
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 31 Jan 2006 09:52:10 -0800, wrote:

I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana

A public apology: I received news from the TV station verifying that
this story was true, at least in part. The child was 'unconscious'
[deceased through suffocation], but not knocked unconscious, and it
was the mechanics of that which troubled me initially, trying to
figure out how the lid would fall etc.. What did happen is that she
was apparently trapped and suffocated. A sadness, to be sure, and why
I put large openings in the sides of my granddaughter's toy box, with
offset decorative squares of solid wood outside of them.

I believe you brought it up. Incidently IA is Iowa, not Ohio, if that's
what you're getting at? Like I had mentioned, I heard the news through
word of mouth and didn't read anything until JOAT's link. My source was
pretty close to the situation so now I'm wondering if there was more to
the story than what was reported to the media or just another case of
things getting mixed up through the grapevine. In any case, it really
doesn't matter. That's why I didn't go into more detail in the first
place. I don't think it's my place to write the details I've heard.
Just respect that, please. A lot of good suggestions came out of this
post and I think all of the saftey measures are worth while thinking
about, right? As woodworkers, I think most people already think about
these things while designing projects. I was trying to say that
obviously not everyone does. FYI, I don't pout. I was merely offended
that you would write that. I'm over it. Jana

George wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:
"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
I meant blanket chests and the like.


Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under
the
sink.

Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
by playmates or siblings.

In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
locks when the lid closes.


Oh, learn something once in a while Fred.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/kids-equipme...cks-pack-of-6/

I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out
of a trunk or chest.

--

FF

Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 8:21am (EST-3) doth sayeth:
snip That's why I didn't go into more detail in the first place. I
don't think it's my place to write the details I've heard. snip

How many times have you ever asked someone, "Why didn't you say
that in the first place?". I know I have - lots.



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 9:32am (EST-3) obtusely
states:
snip I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out of a trunk
or chest.

Because, as you know, it was posted in response to a comment about
a kitchen cabinet, under the sink.

However, I've found the little plastic ones aren't good. They
work, but my kids were able to open the door anyway, after watching once
or twice, and trying on their own a very few times. I've found the
flat, stainless steel type, are very much better. In fact I don't recall
my kids getting past thosw ehen they were small at all.

I'm not about to look up a link, and this is as good a description
as you're gonna get. It's a flat piece of stainless steel, about 1 1/2"
wide and about 6' long. It's bent at one end, maybe 2', with a couple
of screw holes. The other end had one larger hold. This is what the
catch slips into. The catch is fastened on the bottom of the top (if
that makes sense), and it seems it was a large headed screw. When you
shut the cabinet, the catch (screw) slips into the hold. Then when the
door opens, it's held by the catch, to about 2" open. You've got to
push the door in just a bit, and push the latch down, clearing the catch
(scres), and then you can open the door. Too far, and the screw hangs
on the other edge of the hole. Not rocket science, but beyong a little
kid. The plastic ones, basically, all you have to do is pull down on
it, and viola, the door can open - not problem for a kid to do that.
That's as much as you're gonna get.



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

J T wrote:
Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 9:32am (EST-3) obtusely
states:
snip I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out of a trunk
or chest.

Because, as you know, it was posted in response to a comment about
a kitchen cabinet, under the sink.

But as you inow, didn't comment on a kitchen cabinet
under a sink. I commented on locking a trunk or chest
the same way you would lock a cabinet under a kitchen
sink.

Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
climb inside.

--

FF

wrote in message
oups.com...
Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
climb inside.

Conceptually challenged, I think.

The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right angle or
straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on your chest lid,
far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage the coordinated effort
required.

Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 4:29pm George@least (George) doth mumble:
snip The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right
angle or straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on
your chest lid, far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage
the coordinated effort required.

Sounds reasonable. However. Two latches, two kids - chest open.
One, or both, climbe in, lid closes, bad news.

I don't believe in any ANY type of automatic lock or latch on
anything a kid is going to be around, and could be trapped in. At least
not a chest - things like cabinet doors, it could be appropriate to have
them; and, as long as there wasn't anthing in there that could hurt the
kid, might teach him/her a lesson. - as long as it wasnt airtight, that
is.



JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.

George wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
climb inside.

Conceptually challenged, I think.

The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right angle or
straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on your chest lid,
far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage the coordinated effort
required.

OK, I was thinking that if the kid was tall enough to lift the lid he
would be able to reach and disengage the clip. To clips far enough
apart would present a tougher problem.

Actually, aren't most toddlers tall enough to reach the clip on the
door under a kitchen cabinet? Surely many or most will be smart
enough to figure it out. When my little brother was still crawling
he realized that if you put a key in a hole in the wall and turn it
the wall opens up. Then he found out that doesn't work on
electrical outlets and wasn't allowed to play with keys any more.

--

FF

Children suffocating in Lane hope chests was a common enough occurrence that
Lane has a standing offer of new latch mechanisms on their web page. The
chests have a seal ring around the top, and are made to be airtight.

The old latch was kind of like a refrigerator latch, in that it
automatically latches when you close it. The new latch requires that you
push the button in while closing it to lock it, and you can lock the push
button so it can't be pushed in to lock the case shut.



Anyone who owns a Lane Cedar chest should get the new latch mechanism and
install it. It takes a little inletting on chests manufactured before the
early seventies, but not too much. Half hour job, if the chest is full and
you have to pack and repack it.