Hello All,

Long time lurker, 2nd time poster...

I am still very new at this woodworking stuff. I have decided to make a
toybox. It is going to be a pretty basic box, which my oldest son (very
artistic) will base paint a light color, then hand paint with animals and
toys and such. The rough dimensions are 18" deep, 20" high and 36" wide.

My wife wants me to keep the materials cost to a minimum, and since it will
be painted, I'm opting for plywood. My question is about the thickness. My
original thought was 3/4 inch ply, but I'm now starting to wonder if that is
unnecessarily thick, making the toybox unnecessarily heavy. So I guess I'm
hoping for your input on two questions:

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?

2 - Where would I find some kind of guidelines or rule-of-thumb about things
like this (other than looking back in 20 years at my experiences...)?

Thanks for the help, and for all the great posts!

dw

Plywood is fine for a project like you describe. 1/4" or 3/8" ply
veneer or prefinished panels would be adequate. The important part is
the frame.
I would suggest a 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" box frame rabbeted to receive the
plywood panels. Use a heavier piece of plywood for the bottom with full
bearing on the inside frame.
Make a detail drawing of every part with dimensions to follow during
construction. Dry fit the frame and check all the joints, then glue the
panels into the slots. This is a very light and strong construction
method. Done with a nice hardwood frame and veneered plywood it could
be a nice showpiece, or make it from A/C plywood and pine 2" X 4"s for
a cheap job.
Bugs

"dw" wrote in message
news:BENwf.688156$x96.344770@attbi_s72...
Hello All,

Long time lurker, 2nd time poster...

I am still very new at this woodworking stuff. I have decided to make a
toybox. It is going to be a pretty basic box, which my oldest son (very
artistic) will base paint a light color, then hand paint with animals and
toys and such. The rough dimensions are 18" deep, 20" high and 36" wide.

My wife wants me to keep the materials cost to a minimum, and since it
will be painted, I'm opting for plywood. My question is about the
thickness. My original thought was 3/4 inch ply, but I'm now starting to
wonder if that is unnecessarily thick, making the toybox unnecessarily
heavy. So I guess I'm hoping for your input on two questions:

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?

2 - Where would I find some kind of guidelines or rule-of-thumb about
things like this (other than looking back in 20 years at my
experiences...)?

Thanks for the help, and for all the great posts!

dw


Just one word of caution from an old woodworker who raised two sons to
manhood:

Children will sit on boxes. Children will even stand on boxes in the
strangest of circumstances.

I doubt that a 1/2" plywood box would withstand the weight of a 10-12 year
old boy.

Norm

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:20:49 GMT, "dw" wrote:

I am still very new at this woodworking stuff. I have decided to make a
toybox. It is going to be a pretty basic box,

If I was going to make a toybox, I have a hankering to make a "red barn"
shaped box, as illustrated in Lon Schleining's "Treasure Chests"

My wife wants me to keep the materials cost to a minimum, and since it will
be painted, I'm opting for plywood.

Plywood is good. Birch ply is lighter weight too, although more
expensive.

I'd use 1/2", but this will require a little framing around it. You can
either rmake a full-blown frame and panel chest with plywood inserts
(not too hard, but lots of mortices to cut) or else make a simple
plywood box with stiffening fillet blocks inside the four corners.

I'd suggest making a solid timber frame for the top (with four pegged
bridle joints, as they're easier to make than mortices) and a plywood
insert, but just doing the box body with plain plywood and inner
reinforcements. Make the lid frame big enough to sit directly on the
reinforcements. Biscuit jointing the lower box would be the easiest and
quickest way to assemble it. Then tidy it up by running a band of timber
(either some ready-shaped house trim, or just a thin board with a
chamfered top) around the base to make a plinth. You could do it at the
top too, but just overhanging the lid by 5/8" would look as good.

Get one of Lee Valley's toybox lid dampers too. These are a viscous
damper and much better than gas struts or springs.

Don't make it too big. It's surprising how big and awkward a chest can
be to live with, especially if it's getting pulled around the floor.

You can't make it too strong. Don't assume the kids will just
use it to store toys. The toy box might make a great submarine
or fort -- and they'll climb all over it.

dw wrote:

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?

dw wrote:
I have decided to make a
toybox. It is going to be a pretty basic box, which my oldest son (very
artistic) will base paint a light color, then hand paint with animals and
toys and such. The rough dimensions are 18" deep, 20" high and 36" wide.

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?


I just finished building 5 plywood boxes 14" X 14" X 30" for Boy Scouts
to haul camping gear in. 1/2 inch is plenty strong IF you use cabinet
grade hardwood plywood. I'd use 3/4 if I were building with lower
grade plywood. I built one prototype first to test of capacity and
strength. We had two scouts with a combined weight of about 400 pounds
sit on the box without significant deflection of the top.

I ripped some oak scraps into 3/4 X 3/4 strips and glued them along
all inside corners to strengthen the joints. After gluing the box,
round over all edges with 1/4 radius bit for safety/esthetics. He'll
be able to pass it down to his grandchildren.

DonkeyHody
"I'd rather expect the best from people and be wrong than expect the
worst and be right."

"dw" wrote in message

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?


About the same size as an army surplus wooden footlocker from
WWII/Korea/Vietnam era.

The one I is have is at least 40 years old and, IIRC, made from 3/8"
plywood. More than strong enough for a kids toy/play box as it was used as a
microphone storage/lock box and routinely bounced around the country/world
by 300 pound gorilla's, otherwise known as "roadies", back in the days of my
yoot.

A good design, maybe you can DAGS and find one on the net. If not, I could
possibly take pictures and post them onABPW.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

dw wrote:

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you
were going to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?

I wouldn't, I'd use solid wood. But then again I'm very partial to
solid wood and most everything I build is all from solid wood. I also
tend to think solid wood holds up better under abuse.

2 - Where would I find some kind of guidelines or rule-of-thumb
about things like this (other than looking back in 20 years at my
experiences...)?

Well, one guideline that has been mentioned in other threads is that
you should realize that kids are goind to beat the crap out of it...
especially boys. Build accordingly.

Joe Barta

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 3:15pm (EST+5) (Norm*Dresner) doth
proclameth:
snip Children will sit on boxes. Children will even stand on boxes in
the strangest of circumstances.
I doubt that a 1/2" plywood box would withstand the weight of a 10-12
year old boy.

I've said it before, I've said it again, and I'll said it again.
For little kids, no top on the toy box.

If the top is properly braced, I don't see why 1/2" ply wouldn't
hold. I make my knock-down bookshelves with 1/2" ply, and I can sit on
them with no prob. I also make my knock-down kid's rockers from 1/2"
ply, and I can stand in them with no worry about them holding.

I made a toy box, years back, and it's now held in possession by my
grand-dau. Ends were 1/2" ply, in the shape of large frogs, and I think
the rest was also 1/2' ply. It's all glued together, with glue blocks
along the inside joings No top. Probably 8-9 years old now, and
holding up fine. Looks great, except for some now unknown reason I
painted the sides dark blue - the froggy ends are froggy colors -
probably blue was the only other color I had.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 4:48pm (EST+5)
(Andy*Dingley) tip toes in and whispers:
If I was going to make a toybox, I have a hankering to make a "red barn"
shaped box, snip

That for you. Heh heh. Personally, I think that once a kid gets
a few years, and his buddies, come over, he won't care much for a barn
toybox. Of course, if it's gonna be passed on to a younger kid later,
no prob. If the same kid is gonna keep it, I'd make an open topped box,
for when he/she's little, painted bright colors maybe. Then maybe put a
hinged top on it later, no latch, air hole. At some point, I'd say
refinish it, au natural, or paint of the kid's choice. Could even put a
latch and/or latch on it later. An 18 year old girl would be a lot more
likely to want a nicely painted chest, with stenciled pictures, then an
18 year old boy - unless you made it look like a Bud beer case, he'd
probably like that. LOL



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 9:39am (EST-3) (DonkeyHody)
doth claimeth:
snip 1/2 inch is plenty strong IF you use cabinet grade hardwood
plywood. I'd use 3/4 if I were building with lower grade plywood. snip

Anything going in my shop, tool stands, etc., is made from the
cheapest 1/2" plywood I can get. No problem at all with strength
issues.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 12:02pm (EST-1) (Swingman) doth recall
the "old" days:
snip The one I is have is at least 40 years old and, IIRC, made from
3/8" plywood. snip

Hah. I've got one of the "good" ones with the metal reinforced
edges and corners. No telling how old it is now, but still looks just
like the day I got it - somehow got on the good side of a supply sgt,
and he gave me my footlocker. Just wish I'd thought to ask him for a
couple more. Don't recall just when, or where, I got mine, but it was
sometime in the early 60s. It was used then, so I don't know how you'd
tell when it was made. Maybe I'll google it one day.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:44:11 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Personally, I think that once a kid gets
a few years, and his buddies, come over, he won't care much for a barn
toybox.

Toy boxes aren't for kids, they're for fathers (or grandfathers).

J T wrote:

Anything going in my shop, tool stands, etc., is made from the
cheapest 1/2" plywood I can get. No problem at all with strength
issues.

Joat, I'm sure you're right about strength not being a problem. After
all, the cheapest 1/2" CDX works for roof decking supported on 24"
centers. But you've got to admit that hardwood is stiffer. I just
like my stuff to be strong and solid-feeling.

DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain

DonkeyHody wrote:

After all, the cheapest 1/2" CDX works for roof decking supported
on 24" centers.

Well, let's clarify that. The cheapest CDX is usually 3-ply... which
is significantly inferior to the standard 4-ply usually found in new
home construction.

That said, ANY 1/2" material (and to a lesser degree 3/4" spf) is
going to be a little flimsy at 24" centers. The deck is made FAR
stiffer if 16" centers are used.

Are 24" centers "good enough"? According to nearly all building codes
it is. But building codes can be thought of as the minimum that will
be accepted. From there it's your call ;-)

Joe Barta

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 8:58pm (EST+5)
(Andy*Dingley) now claimeth:
Toy boxes aren't for kids, they're for fathers (or grandfathers).

I'm both. The toybox I want is large enough to let me rebuild (and
build up) a 350 Old V8, and then hold the car while I put 'em together.
I think I'll paint it to look like a barn, with cows in the windows.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Joe Barta wrote:
DonkeyHody wrote:

After all, the cheapest 1/2" CDX works for roof decking supported
on 24" centers.

Well, let's clarify that. The cheapest CDX is usually 3-ply... which
is significantly inferior to the standard 4-ply usually found in new
home construction.

That said, ANY 1/2" material (and to a lesser degree 3/4" spf) is
going to be a little flimsy at 24" centers. The deck is made FAR
stiffer if 16" centers are used.

Are 24" centers "good enough"? According to nearly all building codes
it is. But building codes can be thought of as the minimum that will
be accepted. From there it's your call ;-)

We're sort of like the blind men and the elephant. The reason we can't
agree is that we're talking about different things. Some are plenty
happy if the roof (or box) doesn't cave in, and they have one idea of
"strong enough". Others want a good solid feel when they jump up and
down on it, and for them "strong enough" means something entirely
different.

DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 1:18pm (EST-3) (DonkeyHody)
now thinks I'll admit:
snip But you've got to admit that hardwood is stiffer. snip

I don' got to admit nuthin'.

Maybe, over a long span, but none of the spans in my sfuff are over
18", max. For all practical purposes, no difference. If I was making
something fancy, I'd not go so cheap. However... ANYTHING in my shop,
stands, etc., is subject to being changed. It'd be a waste of money to
go with anything but el cheapo 1/2" ply. Just now I'm making another
saw sled. I'd say "new", but I'm recycling part of the old one. I
figure I'll need to "fine-tune" it, once it's together - which means
I'll cut some on it, add some, etc. Probably won't paint it - but
that's to be decided later.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

DonkeyHody wrote:

We're sort of like the blind men and the elephant.

Never heard of that. I'll either have to look it up or you'll have to
explain it.

The reason we can't agree

Are we not reasonable men? Of course we can find agreement ;-)

is that we're talking about different things. Some
are plenty happy if the roof (or box) doesn't cave in, and they
have one idea of "strong enough". Others want a good solid feel
when they jump up and down on it, and for them "strong enough"
means something entirely different.

Point well taken. And of course, cost has to be taken into account. If
by choice and design the budget is tight, then it may not be strong
enough for anybody... but it may have to do anyway.

That said, assuming a budget that is not cut to the bone and the
desire that the roof can withstand a little jumping around, I think
you'd agree that 16" centers is the way to go ;-)

Joe Barta

Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 10:53pm (EST+5) (Joe*Barta)
publically admits:
snip Never heard of that. I'll either have to look it up or you'll
have to explain it. snip

You've never heard that one? It was probably first told by Noah.
Where've YOU been? I suppose that means you've probably never heard the
one about an elephant being a mouse designed by a committee, either.



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

Joe Barta wrote:
We're sort of like the blind men and the elephant.

Never heard of that. I'll either have to look it up or you'll have to
explain it.

Remember that you asked . . .

The Blind Man and the Elephant

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain," quoth her;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

-John Godfrey Saxe

J T wrote:
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 1:18pm (EST-3) (DonkeyHody)
now thinks I'll admit:
snip But you've got to admit that hardwood is stiffer. snip

I don' got to admit nuthin'.

Uh sorry. Begging your pardon. I temporarily forgot who I was talking
to. Of course you don' got to admit nuthin. You are JOAT after all.


But any reasonable person would admit that hardwood is stiffer. If
it's stiffer over the long span then it's stiffer over the short span
too. Whether or not the difference in stiffness is important is a
personal preference, not a question of fact. Now I enjoy recreational
arguments as much as the next guy, but typing is not my favorite
activity. So I'm gonna bow out now without asking you to admit to
anything else.

In good fun
DonkeyHody

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:34:28 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

I think I'll paint it to look like a barn, with cows in the windows.

Last time I was a dairy farmer I lived in Northern Ireland. Over in
Ireland (Eire) Landrovers and particularly Discoveries are popular, but
the tax on them is very expensive. So it's common to see the "van" model
(which you very rarely see in England) which has no rear windows and so
dodges the "luxury car" tax. I saw one once that had cow "passengers"
painted on these steel windows.

I used cheap pine 1x4 and 1x6 with 2x4 for the corners and a smidgen
of plywood for the top and bottom.

http://www.avercy.com/knothole/image...oychest11b.jpg

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:20:49 GMT, "dw" wrote:

Hello All,

Long time lurker, 2nd time poster...

I am still very new at this woodworking stuff. I have decided to make a
toybox. It is going to be a pretty basic box, which my oldest son (very
artistic) will base paint a light color, then hand paint with animals and
toys and such. The rough dimensions are 18" deep, 20" high and 36" wide.

My wife wants me to keep the materials cost to a minimum, and since it will
be painted, I'm opting for plywood. My question is about the thickness. My
original thought was 3/4 inch ply, but I'm now starting to wonder if that is
unnecessarily thick, making the toybox unnecessarily heavy. So I guess I'm
hoping for your input on two questions:

1 - If you were building a toy box of these dimensions, and you were going
to use plywood to do it, would you use 3/4 or 1/2?

2 - Where would I find some kind of guidelines or rule-of-thumb about things
like this (other than looking back in 20 years at my experiences...)?

Thanks for the help, and for all the great posts!

dw

Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 1:10am (EST+5)
(Andy*Dingley) doth admit:
snip I saw one once that had cow "passengers" painted on these steel
windows.

I would have thought something like this would have been more
appropriate, given the place.
http://leovilletownsquare.com/incomi...un_mooning.gif



JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax

"Bugs" wrote in message
oups.com...
Plywood is fine for a project like you describe. 1/4" or 3/8" ply
veneer or prefinished panels would be adequate. The important part is
the frame.
I would suggest a 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" box frame rabbeted to receive the
plywood panels. Use a heavier piece of plywood for the bottom with full
bearing on the inside frame.

About 38 years ago I made one with that size frame. the plywood was nailed
onto it. Lasted through two kids, a couple of grandkids, now is my wife's
storage box. Still in very good condition.

I might just but him one!



On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:03:49 -0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"Bugs" wrote in message
oups.com...
Plywood is fine for a project like you describe. 1/4" or 3/8" ply
veneer or prefinished panels would be adequate. The important part is
the frame.
I would suggest a 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" box frame rabbeted to receive the
plywood panels. Use a heavier piece of plywood for the bottom with full
bearing on the inside frame.

About 38 years ago I made one with that size frame. the plywood was
nailed
onto it. Lasted through two kids, a couple of grandkids, now is my
wife's
storage box. Still in very good condition.





--
www.connoraston.com
If I cant make it - I'll Try!

Sounds like my wife, too!

How about using 3/4" mdf? It is heavy, but it is inexpensive. For painting, its smooth surface can't be beat. If you are moderately careful with your joinery, you can build a rock solid box that can take a ton of abuse. I'd probably avoid the lid (or use stout lid support hardware) otherwise you will have conked heads and squished fingers.

About five years ago I built a pyramidal shaped box with a flat top for my 1945 era shopsmith turned dedicated drill press. This is a super heavy tool and the box-base has held together great. I'm a pretty big guy (250 lbs) and I actually jumped hard on the box before mounting the tool - the box didn't even squeak under the pressure and weight.

Scott