I am looking for some advise on how close to flat a 14 inch jack plane
should be. I picked up a plane yesterday and today I was checking it
out. The first thing I checked was the flatness of the sole relative
to the top of my table saw. There was a slight rock from corner to
corner. I measured this to be about 0.008 of an inch using a feeler
gage. The other thing I noticed is that the middle of the plane had
about a 0.007 inch gap using the feeler gage technique.

Is this plane sole good enough to be used as a scrub plane? It would
seem like it to me, but I am just guessing.

Is it flat enough to be used in less aggressive jack plane
applications? If not, then how flat and how straight should a 14 inch
jack plane's sole be?

I don't have experience using planes or tuning them, but I am willing
to try it.

My options a
1) Use the plane as is.
2) Return it and try to get one that has a flatter sole.
3) Try to flatten the sole.

So what do the experienced woodworkers think? I would appreciate what
ever advice you may have.

Thanks In Advance,

DJS

On 13 Dec 2005 14:15:52 -0800, "djs" wrote:

I am looking for some advise on how close to flat a 14 inch jack plane
should be.

SNIP

IMHO as a scrub lane it'll do OK to hog out wood. As a jointer or
smoother, I'd want no twist and a flatter sole (.005). There are
those that will say .001, but I'm just not that good with a plane
yet.

If it's new, take it back because of the twist. That is not
acceptable. Flattening the sole for the hollow is not a major job if
you don't mind pushing it on sheets of 60, 120, 150, 240, 400 grit
glued to a hunk of MDF. Probably an hour's work.

Regards.

Could be that the the plane is flat, and your TS isn't. Check against a
known standard before you do anything. Grizzly sells 9x12" granite
surface plates for about $30.

I would manualy flatten it on 100 grit, then 220 grit, then 600 aluminum oxide
wet dry paper made by Norton, the papers glued (3M super 77 spray) to a thick
piece of float glass. The glass, you might find cheaply at a local junk shop like I
did, new it is expensive, but mine is an awesome 3/4" thick. You could also use
an old piece of marble counter top.

Mark the sole with a full length and width squiggle with a permanent marker and
have at it, this is so you can see the details of the hills and valleys, and the
progression of your work.

It takes hours and elbow grease to get it done. But, I have done it with a few Stanley
hand planes, and if you're on a budget or prefer to be, it is well worth it.

Their are several websites that explain how to tune a handplane as well. But once
done, it will work beautifully. "Tuning a --" being the key word idea for 'net
searching.

http://www.amgron.clara.net/index.htm

You can also have the plane refurbed by Mike_In_Katy (Texas). He does new baked-
on japanning, and new totes and knobs in different woods... did an awesome bit of
work on my #8, and new cherry. He does offer a warentee on the japanning.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mike_in_k...od/Default.htm

....hope this helps,

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Using a straight edge, and holding 6 of my planes up against sunlight,
the gaps were bad.

I sanded and sanded, going as low as 60 wt sandpaper. Then 120 wet dry.
After two weeks of this, the soles still had hollow patches near the
mouth and heel & toe dips. The guys on oldtools.org informed me that
only my No. 3,4,4 1/2 and 5 plane need to be dead flat. I was getting
nowhere, and had expended $25 on sandpaper.

So I asked my neighbor, a machinist by trade, if his workplace had a
good surface grinder. He said they make MRI equipment for hospitals. I
gave him about 50lbs of planes and he returned two days later with
transformed tools.

The soles were within .0005" flat, with no hollows anywhere. And, the
soles are at 90 square with the sides. I gave him $50 for his trouble
and consider myself lucky. These are all Pre-WWII planes. Some are pre
WW-1 planes.

I've heard of guys using a belt sander clamped in a vise to accomplish
the same thing. By hand, you might be digging the proverbial tunnel to
China.

Gary Curtis
Los Angeles

Using a straight edge, and holding 6 of my planes up against sunlight,
the gaps were bad.

I sanded and sanded, going as low as 60 wt sandpaper. Then 120 wet dry.
After two weeks of this, the soles still had hollow patches near the
mouth and heel & toe dips. The guys on oldtools.org informed me that
only my No. 3,4,4 1/2 and 5 plane need to be dead flat. I was getting
nowhere, and had expended $25 on sandpaper.

So I asked my neighbor, a machinist by trade, if his workplace had a
good surface grinder. He said they make MRI equipment for hospitals. I
gave him about 50lbs of planes and he returned two days later with
transformed tools.

The soles were within .0005" flat, with no hollows anywhere. And, the
soles are at 90 square with the sides. I gave him $50 for his trouble
and consider myself lucky. These are all Pre-WWII planes. Some are pre
WW-1 planes.

I've heard of guys using a belt sander clamped in a vise to accomplish
the same thing. By hand, you might be digging the proverbial tunnel to
China.

Gary Curtis
Los Angeles

wrote:

Using a straight edge, and holding 6 of my planes up against sunlight,
the gaps were bad.

I sanded and sanded, going as low as 60 wt sandpaper. Then 120 wet dry.
After two weeks of this, the soles still had hollow patches near the
mouth and heel & toe dips. The guys on oldtools.org informed me that
only my No. 3,4,4 1/2 and 5 plane need to be dead flat. I was getting
nowhere, and had expended $25 on sandpaper.

So I asked my neighbor, a machinist by trade, if his workplace had a
good surface grinder. He said they make MRI equipment for hospitals. I
gave him about 50lbs of planes and he returned two days later with
transformed tools.

The soles were within .0005" flat, with no hollows anywhere. And, the
soles are at 90 square with the sides. I gave him $50 for his trouble
and consider myself lucky. These are all Pre-WWII planes. Some are pre
WW-1 planes.

I've heard of guys using a belt sander clamped in a vise to accomplish
the same thing. By hand, you might be digging the proverbial tunnel to
China.

Gary Curtis
Los Angeles

None of my LV plane's soles are perfectly FLAT. The aren't supposed to
be. In order not to rock, they are deliberately machined ever so
slightly "hollow", by design. I've spoken with them to confirm what I'd
already suspected; if you run a new LV plane over 600+ paper, it will
polish only the edges. The interior of the plane's sole is maybe a .001
recessed from the edges. My shoulder planes are dead flat, but the 22"
jointer plane, LA smoother, and scraper plane all have identically
machined soles and they work well. I just checked the LA block
plane--same thing. I trust LV to design their planes well, so I have no
issue with the planes never being truly, literally FLAT. They cringe on
the phone if someone says they have lapped the soles of their LV planes.

Dave

Using a straight edge, and holding 6 of my planes up against sunlight,
the gaps were bad.

I sanded and sanded, going as low as 60 wt sandpaper. Then 120 wet dry.
After two weeks of this, the soles still had hollow patches near the
mouth and heel & toe dips. The guys on oldtools.org informed me that
only my No. 3,4,4 1/2 and 5 plane need to be dead flat. I was getting
nowhere, and had expended $25 on sandpaper.

They don't need to be "entirely dead flat" at all. To be good enough for accurate
flat planing, just enough flat areas where it doesn't rock at all. If the plane is to
be used for chuting (or with a shooting board), the sides of the body need to be
an exact 90 perpendicular to the sole... that's the hard one... as you had done.

So I asked my neighbor, a machinist by trade, if his workplace had a
good surface grinder. He said they make MRI equipment for hospitals. I
gave him about 50lbs of planes and he returned two days later with
transformed tools.

The soles were within .0005" flat, with no hollows anywhere. And, the
soles are at 90 square with the sides. I gave him $50 for his trouble
and consider myself lucky. These are all Pre-WWII planes. Some are pre
WW-1 planes.

You got the great deal! ... hhhmmmm ... I know a couple of machinists!

I've heard of guys using a belt sander clamped in a vise to accomplish
the same thing. By hand, you might be digging the proverbial tunnel to
China.

The method I used worked, it took too long, but no rocking.

Gary Curtis
Los Angeles

David writes:

None of my LV plane's soles are perfectly FLAT. The aren't supposed
to be. In order not to rock, they are deliberately machined ever so
slightly "hollow", by design.

BTW - This style is described in my book that describes how to tune a
Japanese wooden-soled planes.

They sell a special plane (like a scraper plane) just for this
purpose.

--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Bruce Barnett wrote:

David writes:


None of my LV plane's soles are perfectly FLAT. The aren't supposed
to be. In order not to rock, they are deliberately machined ever so
slightly "hollow", by design.


BTW - This style is described in my book that describes how to tune a
Japanese wooden-soled planes.

They sell a special plane (like a scraper plane) just for this
purpose.

Bruce, I don't own, nor have I ever used, a wooden plane. What
advantages and disadvantages do they possess? Except for one tiny
cheapy, all have are the LV planes ductile cast iron planes. (I think
that's the correct description)

The scraper is a bit convex?

Dave

David writes:

Bruce, I don't own, nor have I ever used, a wooden plane. What
advantages and disadvantages do they possess? Except for one tiny
cheapy, all have are the LV planes ductile cast iron planes. (I think
that's the correct description)

I'm not an expert, but I have one (1) wooden/Japanese plane I bought
about 20 years ago, and the Toshio Odate book on planes.

The slight concavity of the sole I described is to reduce friction.

The scraper is a bit convex?

No. You scrape fron one side to the other side - across the grain.

If you look at the side of the plane, it touches the surface at the
front edge, near the throat, and at the end.

I think the LV planes have sides that touch the surface. This is
different from the Japanese style of reducing friction, where the
sides do not touch the surface.

A long Japanese joiner can have several "points" of contact, so the
bottom is like a "wave" if you understand what I mean.

As to advantages - Wooden planes can be cheaper, and you can modify it
easier, and you can make your own wooden plane easier than making an
all-metal plane.

IMHO the biggest difference is that you pull the Japanese plane
towards you, instead of pushing. The blades tend to be made from two
kinds of metal, and are thicker. These bi-metal blades allow a harder
edge, while retaining flexibility. You can now get bi-metal blades for
metal planes, and thicker blades.

A second difference, given my limited experience of one, is that the
budget Japanese plane REQUIRED tuning. One can use a cheap metal plane
without tuning (if one is woefully ignorant), but until I tuned my
Japanese plane, I couldn't even get the blade to approach the throat.

Here's a short article on tuning a Japanese plane.
The Odate book gives more detail.

http://japanwoodworker.com/page.asp?content_id=2659

You have to remove the blade when you are not using it. Moisture
changes etc. Metal planes are indifferent to humidity.

I can't compare a western style wooden plane to a Japanese style, and
I don't know if I have covered everything. Perhaps Mr. Knight and
others will elaborate and correct my mis-understandings?

I think the biggest and more important thing is how well the plane is
tuned. A well-tuned metal plane will out-perform a poorly tuned wooden
plane, and vice versa.

HTH


--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

First, you need to determine how flat it is. Comparing to your tablesaw top
won't do it. Do you know how flat it is?
"djs" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am looking for some advise on how close to flat a 14 inch jack plane
should be. I picked up a plane yesterday and today I was checking it
out. The first thing I checked was the flatness of the sole relative
to the top of my table saw. There was a slight rock from corner to
corner. I measured this to be about 0.008 of an inch using a feeler
gage. The other thing I noticed is that the middle of the plane had
about a 0.007 inch gap using the feeler gage technique.

Is this plane sole good enough to be used as a scrub plane? It would
seem like it to me, but I am just guessing.

Is it flat enough to be used in less aggressive jack plane
applications? If not, then how flat and how straight should a 14 inch
jack plane's sole be?

I don't have experience using planes or tuning them, but I am willing
to try it.

My options a
1) Use the plane as is.
2) Return it and try to get one that has a flatter sole.
3) Try to flatten the sole.

So what do the experienced woodworkers think? I would appreciate what
ever advice you may have.

Thanks In Advance,

DJS

CW,
No I don't know how flat my table saw is, but I did move the plane
around in a quite a few positions on the table saw top and also on the
extension table top and every place I put it the result was about the
same. So I am pretty sure the plane isn't flat by approximately the
amount stated.

I considered testing it on a flat piece of glass, but how flat is
that? Especially if it is sitting on a non-flat table. Flat is a hard
thing to be absolutely sure about.

DJS

It sounds like flattening it down to less than 0.005 should be pretty
easy as you suggesty, but is that good enough? Flattening it down to
0.001 would require a better flat reference than my table saw top.

I would question how flat a piece of MDF is. It seems like it would
depend on how flat the tabel top the MDF is resting on. A little
pressure down on the MDF or any other flat plate of glass or marble,
while pushing down on the sand paper, would also force the MDF to
conform to the supporting table, which is probably not all that flat.

On the other hand this plan has two high spots, one at the toe and one
at the heal, and both are limited to about 1 to 1.5 inch from the end.
It seems like all I would have to do is work on one end of the plane on
the sand paper at a time.

This sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to get a flat
reference surface a little larger than this. The 9x12 could handle my
14 inch number 5 Jack plane, but I will needs something a little larger
for the longer planes. Do you know if these granite surface plates are
actually certified flat to a certain tolerance?

How do you know how flat your piece of glass is? How do you support it
so that it maintains its flatness when you are working a plane on top
of it? I would think that any pressure down on the glass while working
the plane's sole would deform the glass plate to a non-flat surface.

Wow, 6 planes flattened to 5 tenths, for only 50 bucks. I don't have
that option. And I may not need it either. I was talking to my
brother-in-law a little while ago, and he is a big hand plane guy, and
he advised me that smoothing planes don't really need to be as flat as
a jointing plane. This is just the opposite what you say the folks at
oldtools.org tell you. Now I wonder who I should listen to. I'll have
to visit oldtools.org to see what they are all about. Thanks for the
reference.

Well, this make some sense, a flat surface around the entire edge of
the sole, and hollowed out in the middle by about 0.001. Are you sure
that the slightly hollow is 0.001 inch. How did you measure that? I
am wondering how I might put such a feature on my plane.

I didn't mention it above but my plane is metal. I have a couple old
wooden planes, but they don't get me to excited. They need more tuning
than the one I picked up yesterday.

DJS

"djs" wrote in message
oups.com...
This sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to get a flat
reference surface a little larger than this. The 9x12 could handle my
14 inch number 5 Jack plane, but I will needs something a little larger
for the longer planes. Do you know if these granite surface plates are
actually certified flat to a certain tolerance?


Check the Grizzly catalog. According to the copy, these are flat to plus or
minus .0001". Certified? I don't know. I've got the 9x12 and wish I'd gotten
the 12x18 or 18x24, but the shipping charges are ROUGH! No ledge 18x24 costs
$44.95, with $58 shipping. Add an 18x24 stand, at $49.95, and you add $38 to
shipping.

"djs" wrote:

It sounds like flattening it down to less than 0.005 should be pretty
easy as you suggesty, but is that good enough? Flattening it down to
0.001 would require a better flat reference than my table saw top.

I would question how flat a piece of MDF is. It seems like it would
depend on how flat the tabel top the MDF is resting on. A little
pressure down on the MDF or any other flat plate of glass or marble,
while pushing down on the sand paper, would also force the MDF to
conform to the supporting table, which is probably not all that flat.

On the other hand this plan has two high spots, one at the toe and one
at the heal, and both are limited to about 1 to 1.5 inch from the end.
It seems like all I would have to do is work on one end of the plane on
the sand paper at a time.



Heel, Toe, and Mouth should be flat and co-planer. And flat enough that you
are satisfied with the output - no flatter.

"djs" wrote in message
oups.com...
This sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to get a flat
reference surface a little larger than this. The 9x12 could handle my
14 inch number 5 Jack plane, but I will needs something a little larger
for the longer planes. Do you know if these granite surface plates are
actually certified flat to a certain tolerance?


Get a piece of glass. It's flat within the size of the finest grit you'll
be using to lap the sole. If you're using paper, which has no thickness
standard for either the backing or the thickness of the abrasive, MDF on
your TS will be fine.

Essence of lapping, after all is getting to an _average_ by keeping things
moving.

djs wrote:

Well, this make some sense, a flat surface around the entire edge of
the sole, and hollowed out in the middle by about 0.001. Are you sure
that the slightly hollow is 0.001 inch. How did you measure that? I
am wondering how I might put such a feature on my plane.

ah, buy a LV plane? g I don't know any simple method of
accomplishing at home, what LV does to the sole of their planes.

Dave

yes, plates are supposed to conform to a standard and pass its tests. Which
standards? With an item like this it wouldn't be worth your money without
it. Most everything in the mechanical trades are. These are useful,
interesting pages you could look up: (the information is endless). Knowing
the code after the standard name is a code itself, date of inception or mod.

AGMA
ANSI
ASA
ASME
BS
JAP
DIN
GGG
ISO
NEMA
SAE
ROCKWELL, Rc, Rb...
ABEC

just one standard by one org encompases all the codes for all the steels.
They team up. Buy copies. check their wwws.

Surface plates are sold by colour, The product should say what it is good
for. They get incredibly accurate. They are several feet thick and dozens
of feet wide and acuurate to a minimum of 1/10 000". Theres a million
analyses and surface finish symbols. You literally have to be able to put a
forklift on top of them and maintain this accuracy. Same with CNC machine
tools. Parts are loaded on to them with forklifts and machined to 1/10 000"
tolerances. You can get a dial caliper, inherent accuracy 1/1000" for $20
that is accurate to 1/1000". A dial is great. When you rock it you can see
the dial go cw or ccw, tell you the exact hi/low spot. A micrometer is
inherently accurate to 1/10 000" Screws are standardized for spiral runout,
and absolutely everything from the angle of the head to the length of the
unthreaded point, and the thickness of the plating, which is absolutely
check, in conjunction with the thread profile check: two checks, three
actually. Would ford buy unstandardized machine screws? Having markings is
a givaway. ASME/ASTM is an example. Good/high standards(several levels)
dictate what markings on the product are req'd to meet the standards. Size
printed on drill bits, with rules about minimum printing relief. At the
bureau of measurementds they actually keep a refernce of the size, say gage
blocks, got a million bucks?. In temp, humidity, dust, light, air, etc.
controlled . When you gotta check ya, you can base it on the speed of
light, but what do you do, set up two speed of light machines side by side
and do a comparison run? In some fields the entire science is driven by the
standards. People say they get in the way. You can't find your hand in
front of your face without them. All engineering in all tools are
calculated based on preferred sizes. Anything you can't buy is wasted
money. Machinerys Handbook, the bible.

sorry don't know the surface plate info.

You can get surface plates certified to very very tight tolerances.

djs wrote:
This sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to get a flat
reference surface a little larger than this. The 9x12 could handle my
14 inch number 5 Jack plane, but I will needs something a little larger
for the longer planes. Do you know if these granite surface plates are
actually certified flat to a certain tolerance?

N.I.S.T is another big one

the "Federal Specification" as opposed to Federal Standard, or anything else
for granite surface plates is GGG-P-463c. Federal Specification coverage for
master, calibration, inspection, and workshop gage block tolerance grades
are under GGG-G-15C, March 20, 1975, which supercedes GGG-G-15B, Nvember 6,
1970.. Can't find or can't get in the www

On 13 Dec 2005 23:13:39 -0800, "djs" wrote:

It sounds like flattening it down to less than 0.005 should be pretty
easy as you suggesty, but is that good enough? Flattening it down to
0.001 would require a better flat reference than my table saw top.

I would question how flat a piece of MDF is. It seems like it would
depend on how flat the tabel top the MDF is resting on. A little
pressure down on the MDF or any other flat plate of glass or marble,
while pushing down on the sand paper, would also force the MDF to
conform to the supporting table, which is probably not all that flat.

DJ:

I suspect (tho' can't prove) that the deflection of an 18" long hunk
of 1/2 (or 3/4) MDF under any reasonable hand pressure is so minimal
that it's not in the equation. Is MDF flat - well it sure seems to be.
My 1/1000 DI doesn't wiggle when I pass it across a clean piece
(actually passing the piece under the DI). You're not going to put a
heck of a lot of weight on it when sanding, at least not if you want
the paper to survive.

As I said in my original response, the twisting that causes the
rocking is far more of a problem than the absolute flatness of the
sole. And, as other posters have noted, good enough is good enough.

You can read Jeff's notes at

http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...g/fettling.htm

He's kinda considered an authority on "fetting" a plane.

Anyone know the origin of "fetting"? I've assumed it was a translation
from the Scots brogue, but maybe there's another reason for the term.

Regards.

not neccesary to be under standard to sell product in US unless say certain
items -food. Some products are just lucky and can stamp std. approved.
Some cheaper without. Some may but don't say it. Some may appear to be,
but not in details. but for this you could prob find a std. And if it
isn't, it would state something, and that may be in the class of a similar
stdized product
now to ask what good a surface plate is. i.e what other purchases it
eliminates.

thats JIS, I think

In article .com,
"djs" wrote:

I am looking for some advise on how close to flat a 14 inch jack plane
should be. I picked up a plane yesterday and today I was checking it
out. The first thing I checked was the flatness of the sole relative
to the top of my table saw. There was a slight rock from corner to
corner. I measured this to be about 0.008 of an inch using a feeler
gage. The other thing I noticed is that the middle of the plane had
about a 0.007 inch gap using the feeler gage technique.

snip
My options a
1) Use the plane as is.

Yep I'd agree with you - use it as is for all your planing needs.

Fer criminey's sake, those people who flatten to 1 or even 5 thousanths
have more time than sense. Are they trying to achieve an end result in
the finished wood in the single digit thousanths? Just what's going to
happen when the panel is sanded or scraped? Do they use 14" lapped
sanding blocks to ensure the flatness left by the plane is retained?

Answer this: how many of the extraordinary pieces in museums and private
collections were made with tools having any where near this precision?
Those masters were using wooden planes that moved, to some extent, with
the seasons. They were sawing by hand. They were flattening by hand to a
reasonable degree of flatness - not measuring with surface plates and
feeler gauges.

Learn how to establish reference faces and work off of those. Once that
is understood all error and variance will become moot. You can spend
hours upon hours flattening something that isn't going to transform your
work into masterful art - or you can spend the time learning to use the
tools at your disposal along with proper joinery techniques and come out
far ahead.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

Tom Banes wrote:

On 13 Dec 2005 23:13:39 -0800, "djs" wrote:

It sounds like flattening it down to less than 0.005 should be pretty
easy as you suggesty, but is that good enough? Flattening it down to
0.001 would require a better flat reference than my table saw top.

I would question how flat a piece of MDF is. It seems like it would
depend on how flat the tabel top the MDF is resting on. A little
pressure down on the MDF or any other flat plate of glass or marble,
while pushing down on the sand paper, would also force the MDF to
conform to the supporting table, which is probably not all that flat.

DJ:

I suspect (tho' can't prove) that the deflection of an 18" long hunk
of 1/2 (or 3/4) MDF under any reasonable hand pressure is so minimal
that it's not in the equation. Is MDF flat - well it sure seems to be.
My 1/1000 DI doesn't wiggle when I pass it across a clean piece
(actually passing the piece under the DI). You're not going to put a
heck of a lot of weight on it when sanding, at least not if you want
the paper to survive.

As I said in my original response, the twisting that causes the
rocking is far more of a problem than the absolute flatness of the
sole. And, as other posters have noted, good enough is good enough.

You can read Jeff's notes at

http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...g/fettling.htm

He's kinda considered an authority on "fetting" a plane.

Anyone know the origin of "fetting"? I've assumed it was a translation
from the Scots brogue, but maybe there's another reason for the term.

Regards.


It is 'fettling'. Here's a good explanation:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-fet1.htm

Just because the masters of old did not have access to surface plates etc.
does not mean that the soles of their planes were not flat. Looking at a
light with a straight edge, one can detect gaps smaller that one thousandth.
IMHO the plane needs flattening!

In article ,
"Dave W" wrote:

Just because the masters of old did not have access to surface plates etc.
does not mean that the soles of their planes were not flat. Looking at a
light with a straight edge, one can detect gaps smaller that one thousandth.
IMHO the plane needs flattening!

Have fun - I'll be out woodworking.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

Tom Banes wrote:

Anyone know the origin of "fetting"? I've assumed it was a translation
from the Scots brogue, but maybe there's another reason for the term.

Oxford Concise:

"N. English make or repair. -- Origin ME (in the general sense 'to
prepare'): from dial. fettle 'strip of material', from OE fetel, of
Germanic origin.

I assumed it was divergent from 'fiddle' but that's a different word
altogether, with its own origins.

er
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email not valid

Charles Self wrote:
"djs" wrote in message
oups.com...

This sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to get a flat
reference surface a little larger than this. The 9x12 could handle my
14 inch number 5 Jack plane, but I will needs something a little larger
for the longer planes. Do you know if these granite surface plates are
actually certified flat to a certain tolerance?

Check the Grizzly catalog. According to the copy, these are flat to plus or
minus .0001". Certified? I don't know. I've got the 9x12 and wish I'd gotten
the 12x18 or 18x24, but the shipping charges are ROUGH! No ledge 18x24 costs
$44.95, with $58 shipping. Add an 18x24 stand, at $49.95, and you add $38 to
shipping.

Listen, I got the 12x18 and wish I'd gotten the 18x24, and I'm sure I'd
have still made wishes had I gotten that.

When I got them from enco (they have both grade B and A plates and the A
plates are only a few dollars more) and enough other stuff to bring my
total to $200 the shipping was free. BFG! Hey, is that a gloat?

er
--
email not valid

It doesn't ELIMINATE anything, it augments what you have.

bent wrote:

now to ask what good a surface plate is. i.e what other purchases it
eliminates.

Plonk

"bent" wrote in message
...
thats JIS, I think

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:54:07 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:


Oxford Concise:

"N. English make or repair. -- Origin ME (in the general sense 'to
prepare'): from dial. fettle 'strip of material', from OE fetel, of
Germanic origin.

I assumed it was divergent from 'fiddle' but that's a different word
altogether, with its own origins.


Thanks, that answers the question I posed and, as a result, I am in
"fine fettle".

I guess it's as good a term as any to use when describing tuning a
wood plane, but it is a tiny bit obtuse isn't it. Maybe we woodie
types need a vocabulary that sets us apart, is recognizable only by
the cognoscenti. Sort of like the mediaeval trades councils (and the
medical profession today. Anus? It's an a..hole, and your finger is in
it!).