I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer. Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table. I realize that with a moving table that the in feeds will
need always out of whack if used. In particular I am looking at a Jet
JWP-15cs with motor on bottom,with the table that moves up and down, closed
base with wheels, rollers on top for sliding the work rather than carrying
it back for the next pass and the X5 Delta. The Delta 22-780X has the
motor on top the cutter head moves and it has long swing down roller in feed
and out feed extensions. They look twice as long as the Jet in feed and out
feed rollers and no wheels for mobility. So far the Delta looks real nice
when considering the long fold down roller extensions.

Thanks

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:15:05 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer. Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table. I realize that with a moving table that the in feeds will
need always out of whack if used. In particular I am looking at a Jet
JWP-15cs with motor on bottom,with the table that moves up and down, closed
base with wheels, rollers on top for sliding the work rather than carrying
it back for the next pass and the X5 Delta. The Delta 22-780X has the
motor on top the cutter head moves and it has long swing down roller in feed
and out feed extensions. They look twice as long as the Jet in feed and out
feed rollers and no wheels for mobility. So far the Delta looks real nice
when considering the long fold down roller extensions.

Thanks


cant answer yet but i just finnished unloading my xmas present. a 20 "
powermatic model 209. as soon as SWMBO will let me open it i will let
ya know how it does.

skeez

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

So far the Delta looks real nice
when considering the long fold down roller extensions.

I don't recall the model number (380?), Leon, but the 'motor-on-top'
Delta has been my work horse planer for over 20 years. The guy who owns
the shop now, still works it pretty hard. That 3HP isn't going to waste.
I replaced the out-feed roller, a chain, a set of bearings and a hand
wheel. Mine did not have the fancy-pants roller tables... that would
have been nice.

If I ever find myself looking at production again, I'd do it all over
again. (Assuming the quality is still there...and nowadays.. who knows?)
I took a job which included 800 sq-ft of cherry floors, and bought a set
of carbide knives for it.... I cannot imagine a better finish from a
planer.

After that thing, I cannot stand the sound and wind-up of those
universal motors you now find in all those lunch-box planers.

That was a tool done right.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:15:05 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table.

Usually the cheaper planers have a brushed (universal) motor mounted
directly onto a moving head. The better ones have a fixed head driven
by an induction motor underneath. Industrial ones are similar, but the
bed stays fixed and the head moves (this needs a more complex belt
tensioner).

An induction motor is quieter and cooler running, giving a longer life.
Unless you're really going to hammer it, and your chip collection is
already remote and quiet, then you might never notice the difference.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

Thank you sir.



After that thing, I cannot stand the sound and wind-up of those
universal motors you now find in all those lunch-box planers.

That was a tool done right.

I confess that the last time I was around a large planer was in school. I
have been using an original portable, The Ryobi AP -10 since 1988. You
mention sound wind up noise on the portables, is the Delta quieter? IIRC
the school shop monsters were unmistakable noisy.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:15:05 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table.

Usually the cheaper planers have a brushed (universal) motor mounted
directly onto a moving head. The better ones have a fixed head driven
by an induction motor underneath. Industrial ones are similar, but the
bed stays fixed and the head moves (this needs a more complex belt
tensioner).

Yes but the larger 15" Deltas have the induction motor on top. The salesman
seemed to believe that the motor on top would wear out the adjustment screws
faster than the the one with the motor on bottom. I believe that this may
be true but not while I am alive.

An induction motor is quieter and cooler running, giving a longer life.
Unless you're really going to hammer it, and your chip collection is
already remote and quiet, then you might never notice the difference.

Thanks.

When I'm planing really long material, well, 8 feet or longer actually.
I like to have an out-feed support. I don't want to have to adjust it
all of the time. I like moving cutter heads and stationary feed tables.
Set it all up once and get busy!

..02 from a new guy,
Tom

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

The Ryobi AP -10 since 1988. You
mention sound wind up noise on the portables, is the Delta quieter?

Mine had an induction motor. There's the noise of the air getting
churned by the blades.. some gears and chains.. but none of that
screamin' demon of the AP-10. I used to have one of those as well. Very
handy on a job site. One of the very early ones. It was a great solution
for a lot of aspiring woodworkers in those days. I think it pretty much
put Ryobi on the map.

Maybe if you took a dB reading on either planer, there may not be a big
difference other than 'balls'. The pitch is different.

Well I would say it's kinda like a left tilt vs right tilt. There ARE
differences but it has to do with the user. That's just my 2 cents. I
have used both, but I own a 3hp with the motor in the cabinet. With the
motor on top you have to work around it to change the knives. It is not
in the way as to be removed to change them, it's just something you have
to fumble around. With the table that moves you really cant setup
outfeed rollers from stands without adjusting them after every depth change.

Leon wrote:
I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer. Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table. I realize that with a moving table that the in feeds will
need always out of whack if used. In particular I am looking at a Jet
JWP-15cs with motor on bottom,with the table that moves up and down, closed
base with wheels, rollers on top for sliding the work rather than carrying
it back for the next pass and the X5 Delta. The Delta 22-780X has the
motor on top the cutter head moves and it has long swing down roller in feed
and out feed extensions. They look twice as long as the Jet in feed and out
feed rollers and no wheels for mobility. So far the Delta looks real nice
when considering the long fold down roller extensions.

Thanks

addendumdumdadumdum

I also wanted to add something which I tend to think is important.
Universal motors on a planer is not the best choice, because they will
slow down as you load them up. Induction motors continue at the same
speed (up to a point ..an obvious point) and I think feed-rate is an
important component whenever you're cutting anything.
There are electronic solutions to constant speed in the world of
universal motors, but I don't know if any lunch-box-style planers have
that much sophistication.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

Maybe if you took a dB reading on either planer, there may not be a big
difference other than 'balls'. The pitch is different.

Great, thanks again. I was afraid that the bigger one would be louder.

wrote in message
oups.com...
When I'm planing really long material, well, 8 feet or longer actually.
I like to have an out-feed support. I don't want to have to adjust it
all of the time. I like moving cutter heads and stationary feed tables.
Set it all up once and get busy!

I feel the same way I always support my work now, manually. However, the
Delta that I am looking at has about 6' of support counting the in feed and
out feed. I'll be able to let go sooner.

"Jody" wrote in message
...
Well I would say it's kinda like a left tilt vs right tilt. There ARE
differences but it has to do with the user. That's just my 2 cents. I
have used both, but I own a 3hp with the motor in the cabinet. With the
motor on top you have to work around it to change the knives. It is not
in the way as to be removed to change them, it's just something you have
to fumble around. With the table that moves you really cant setup
outfeed rollers from stands without adjusting them after every depth
change.

I was looking at that and agree with the motor being in the mix but as you
pointed out it may not be a serious problem. And right now I walk each
board around rather than roll them over the top so that would not be any
addition problem. Actually I seldom do 1 board and stack them all up, make
a depth adjustment and run them all through again.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
addendumdumdadumdum

I also wanted to add something which I tend to think is important.
Universal motors on a planer is not the best choice, because they will
slow down as you load them up. Induction motors continue at the same
speed (up to a point ..an obvious point) and I think feed-rate is an
important component whenever you're cutting anything.
There are electronic solutions to constant speed in the world of
universal motors, but I don't know if any lunch-box-style planers have
that much sophistication.

Well for sure the planer will be the larger stationary style with the
induction motor. Ever since the portables went to disposable blades I have
had a bad taste in my mouth about them. My old AP-10 is still using the
same original set that I resharpen. I bet the savings of blade replacement
and sharpening alone will pay for the difference in price between the 2
planers. Typically new disposable blades run in the 30 to 50 dollar range.
Also the 30 fpm rate to get the stock close to thickness has to have its
advantages over the 16 and or 20 fpm max portables.

"skeezics" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:15:05 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


cant answer yet but i just finnished unloading my xmas present. a 20 "
powermatic model 209. as soon as SWMBO will let me open it i will let
ya know how it does.

skeez

Do you think it will be big enough? LOL Good for you.

"Leon" wrote in message
om...
Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table.

Usually the cheaper planers have a brushed (universal) motor mounted
directly onto a moving head. The better ones have a fixed head driven
by an induction motor underneath. Industrial ones are similar, but the
bed stays fixed and the head moves (this needs a more complex belt
tensioner).

Yes but the larger 15" Deltas have the induction motor on top. The
salesman seemed to believe that the motor on top would wear out the
adjustment screws faster than the the one with the motor on bottom. I
believe that this may be true but not while I am alive.

An induction motor is quieter and cooler running, giving a longer life.
Unless you're really going to hammer it, and your chip collection is
already remote and quiet, then you might never notice the difference.


I've been using the ancestor of the top-motor types - RC 33 - for the last
twenty five or so at home, and various at shops at my school and others.

I like the motor up top in a small shop. Fewer clearance surprises that
way. As to the rollers in and out, they're more trouble than they're worth.
People try to use them as handles, which throws them out of line, because
they're flimsy as hell. A moment's inattention will trap a hand between the
end of an outfeeding board and the roller, which is even worse. The
business of rollers up top to "return" a board being planed is plain stupid.
If you have two people, you hand the board. If you have one, you walk.

For one-man operation, go top motor. For two, doesn't matter.

we have a top of the line planer from woodmaster ($4000) and it has an
induction motor, the only thing that will slow it down is a board coming in
too fast but it came with a roller control box so your can control the speed
of your rollers but the motor will still be at a constant speed
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
addendumdumdadumdum

I also wanted to add something which I tend to think is important.
Universal motors on a planer is not the best choice, because they will
slow down as you load them up. Induction motors continue at the same
speed (up to a point ..an obvious point) and I think feed-rate is an
important component whenever you're cutting anything.
There are electronic solutions to constant speed in the world of
universal motors, but I don't know if any lunch-box-style planers have
that much sophistication.

"George" George@least wrote in message
...

I've been using the ancestor of the top-motor types - RC 33 - for the last
twenty five or so at home, and various at shops at my school and others.

I like the motor up top in a small shop. Fewer clearance surprises that
way. As to the rollers in and out, they're more trouble than they're
worth. People try to use them as handles, which throws them out of line,
because they're flimsy as hell. A moment's inattention will trap a hand
between the end of an outfeeding board and the roller, which is even
worse.

With the particular Delta model that I am looking at, the rollers have steel
between them so that there is not a chance of getting a hand trapped and the
extensions are quite solid. It is more like a flat table with openings just
large enough for the largre rollers to be exposed. Otherwise I totally
agree so much that most any other planer I have seen with in and out feed
rollers do have large gaps that could lead to a serious injury if one is not
paying attention.
Take a look here and click to enlarge the picture.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=4747



The business of rollers up top to "return" a board being planed is plain
stupid.

The more I think about it the more I agree. It seems like it would be more
effort to raise the board up there and push it half way, walk to the other
side and grab it again. It actually sounds like more work in the long run.
I have been walking the wood around for 15+ years with out any problem.

The DC-380(22-780X) is a very nice planer. Built like a tank
and can handle any big load. The blades are a pain in the ass to
install but not bad.

I have had mine for about three years now
and just changed out the blades.

The only "disadvantage" to the motor on top is that on the
lunch box planer I had(12.5" Delta), it had a little roller
on top that helped out a LOT in moving the lumber back and
forth from outfeed to infeed, while the damn big 15" does not
have that fancy little roller.

That's not a show stopper and I would easily purchase the Delta
again. The infeed and outfeed rollers are wonderful.


Leon wrote:

I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer.

I forgot to add....get the mobile base at all costs...this is
a very heavy sucker and requires a mobile base. I think that
the current package throws in the base but if not, pay the $100
and get it anyway.

Have a few friends over for the unloading....


Pat Barber wrote:

The DC-380(22-780X) is a very nice planer. Built like a tank
and can handle any big load. The blades are a pain in the ass to
install but not bad.

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...
I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer. Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
snip
I have a Powermatic 15"...
Motor below, in and out-feed rollers that {can} catch an unwary finger... 2
rollers on top that I use a lot!
The in and out feed "tables" do get used as handles on occasion, but hasn't
seemed to present a problem.
Blades are easily accessible for honing and replacement. The machine comes
with a roller (caster) at each corner so a mobile base is not needed.
Tom
as usual, YMMV

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I forgot to add....get the mobile base at all costs...this is
a very heavy sucker and requires a mobile base. I think that
the current package throws in the base but if not, pay the $100
and get it anyway.

Have a few friends over for the unloading....


Actually I think I will let my local supplier have the business if he will
work with me a bit and let him set the planer up. I would not think of not
getting a mobile base.

"Thomas Bunetta" wrote in message
news
I have a Powermatic 15"...
Motor below, in and out-feed rollers that {can} catch an unwary finger...
2 rollers on top that I use a lot!
The in and out feed "tables" do get used as handles on occasion, but
hasn't seemed to present a problem.
Blades are easily accessible for honing and replacement. The machine comes
with a roller (caster) at each corner so a mobile base is not needed.
Tom
as usual, YMMV


I'll have a look but I sure like the Delta style in feed and out feed.
Virtually no way to get a finger or hand caught.
Thanks

"Leon" writes:

"George" George@least wrote in message
...


The business of rollers up top to "return" a board being planed is plain
stupid.

The more I think about it the more I agree. It seems like it would be more
effort to raise the board up there and push it half way, walk to the other
side and grab it again. It actually sounds like more work in the long run.
I have been walking the wood around for 15+ years with out any problem.

I'll disagree. When planing more than one board to a common thickness,
you can stack them on the top rollers (an infeed stack and an outfeed stack)
as you plane them down pass after pass.

scott

Leon wrote:
I have a question about the bigger planers. I am considering the purchase
of a new 15" stationary planer. Is there an advantage to the motor being
under rather than on top and or the cutter head moving up and down rather
than the table. I realize that with a moving table that the in feeds will
need always out of whack if used. In particular I am looking at a Jet
JWP-15cs with motor on bottom,with the table that moves up and down, closed
base with wheels, rollers on top for sliding the work rather than carrying
it back for the next pass and the X5 Delta. The Delta 22-780X has the
motor on top the cutter head moves and it has long swing down roller in feed
and out feed extensions. They look twice as long as the Jet in feed and out
feed rollers and no wheels for mobility. So far the Delta looks real nice
when considering the long fold down roller extensions.

Thanks
Leon
FWIW
I have the Powermatic 15" with spiral head cutter, cast iron in/out
feeds and like it very much. The Jet looks very similar. I couldn't
tell what sort of dust collector port the Delta has. I seem to recall
someone having size problems with the Delta collector adaptor

Leon wrote:


The business of rollers up top to "return" a board being planed is plain
stupid.

The more I think about it the more I agree. It seems like it would be more
effort to raise the board up there and push it half way, walk to the other
side and grab it again. It actually sounds like more work in the long run.
I have been walking the wood around for 15+ years with out any problem.


How often do you run the same board through the planer at the same depth
of cut? It seems like you are saying you take the just-planed board from
the outfeed, walk back to the infeed, and feed it through again. If I
only have one board, I will move it from outfeed to the rollers on top,
leave it there while I adjust the depth, pick it up off the top and run
the next pass. I guess I'm wierd or I'm not understanding your method.

-jj

--
Remove BOB to email me

"JJ" wrote in message
...


How often do you run the same board through the planer at the same depth
of cut? It seems like you are saying you take the just-planed board from
the outfeed, walk back to the infeed, and feed it through again. If I only
have one board, I will move it from outfeed to the rollers on top, leave
it there while I adjust the depth, pick it up off the top and run the next
pass. I guess I'm wierd or I'm not understanding your method.


I do 10 to 15 boards at a time, and then walk the last board to the infeed
side and start the process over.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
. com...
I'll disagree. When planing more than one board to a common thickness,
you can stack them on the top rollers (an infeed stack and an outfeed
stack)
as you plane them down pass after pass.


You mean "balance them," don't you? Asking for trouble. I set up left and
right using tablesaw and RAS table, moving from side to side with each pass.
They lay easier with a couple-three feet of support, which is why we rolled
a table up beside the one at school for the purpose.

George wrote:

A moment's inattention will trap a hand between the
end of an outfeeding board and the roller, which is even worse.

I have always recognized this as a potential hazard before as well. I
thought about this some more while I was in the shop yesterday after
reading this. So I cut a piece of melamine, grabbed the drill and
mounted the melamine between the planer and the outfeed roller. No more
worrying about trapped fingers.

-jj

"JJ" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

A moment's inattention will trap a hand between the end of an outfeeding
board and the roller, which is even worse.

I have always recognized this as a potential hazard before as well. I
thought about this some more while I was in the shop yesterday after
reading this. So I cut a piece of melamine, grabbed the drill and mounted
the melamine between the planer and the outfeed roller. No more worrying
about trapped fingers.


Good move JJ.

"Leon" wrote in message
et...

"JJ" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

A moment's inattention will trap a hand between the end of an outfeeding
board and the roller, which is even worse.

I have always recognized this as a potential hazard before as well. I
thought about this some more while I was in the shop yesterday after
reading this. So I cut a piece of melamine, grabbed the drill and mounted
the melamine between the planer and the outfeed roller. No more worrying
about trapped fingers.


Good move JJ.

If your planer table were constant height, your melamine-topped off-riding
helper could be a table in its own right. Don't need any rollers on the
infeed side, because you're already standing there.

Put a bit of up-tilt on the far end of the table to prevent snipe should you
forget to tighten the head. Helps Polacks like me if someone puts a feed
direction arrow in there somewhere, too.

"George" George@least wrote in message
...

Put a bit of up-tilt on the far end of the table to prevent snipe should
you forget to tighten the head. Helps Polacks like me if someone puts a
feed direction arrow in there somewhere, too.

LOL.... Have you actually tried to feed in the wrong direction? I often
find myself raising the cutter head instead of lowering after a pass. I
really hate waiting on the board to go through with anything wood being
removed.

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...

"George" George@least wrote in message
...

Put a bit of up-tilt on the far end of the table to prevent snipe should
you forget to tighten the head. Helps Polacks like me if someone puts a
feed direction arrow in there somewhere, too.

LOL.... Have you actually tried to feed in the wrong direction? I often
find myself raising the cutter head instead of lowering after a pass. I
really hate waiting on the board to go through with anything wood being
removed.


No, but I have put the high end of the catch table toward the planer, which
caused the end of the board to begin pushing it across the floor. The end
close to the planer wants to be the same height, sloping up maybe an eighth
every foot and a half to prevent snipe.

Jak se mas? Or is it Jak leci?

George wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
et...

"JJ" wrote in message
.. .

George wrote:


A moment's inattention will trap a hand between the end of an outfeeding
board and the roller, which is even worse.

I have always recognized this as a potential hazard before as well. I
thought about this some more while I was in the shop yesterday after
reading this. So I cut a piece of melamine, grabbed the drill and mounted
the melamine between the planer and the outfeed roller. No more worrying
about trapped fingers.


Good move JJ.


If your planer table were constant height, your melamine-topped off-riding
helper could be a table in its own right.

I'm not sure replacing my 20" planer JUST to get a fixed table would be
worth it. The scrap melamine was pretty much free.

Don't need any rollers on the
infeed side, because you're already standing there.

Right, that's why I only put it on the outfeed side.

Put a bit of up-tilt on the far end of the table to prevent snipe should you
forget to tighten the head. Helps Polacks like me if someone puts a feed
direction arrow in there somewhere, too.

Instead of the arrow, I got the melamine to show me which end is out.




--
Remove BOB to email me

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...

Thanks to all the responders.

I am getting the Delta 22-780X later this week delivered and assembled with
mobile base. $1099 after $100 rebate. I bought it locally in Houston.