I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board. I am positive that the board was flat in the clamp and stayed there
for a few days.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

Thanks for your help.


--
Garry Collins
Remove the spamno from my eamill address.

Garry Collins wrote:
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

You can find lots of information on this by looking for things like
"edge gluing" in a search engine.

There are lots of others out there with more experience than me, but one
way to minimize this is to use narrow boards and arrange them so that
the curve of the end grain alternates up and down. If the boards warp,
you'll get a slightly wavy top rather than a totally cupped one.

Chris

You may not be having the edges/board "flat"in the clamps you are using.
You may try this,While boards are clamped run a framing square or anything
else that you know is straight+true accross the boards to check if infact
they are flat.
Thats one possibility.
use clamps on both sides and alternate them
Let us know how it works out.
"Garry Collins" wrote in message
...
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board. I am positive that the board was flat in the clamp and stayed
there
for a few days.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

Thanks for your help.


--
Garry Collins
Remove the spamno from my eamill address.

Start with properly dry materials. Got a jointer? Planer? (or their
cordless equivalent?) Rough your stock out to just over it's final
dimensions, and allow your stock to acclimate to it's final environment
for a couple of weeks. Make sure that air can flow around all sides
while you're waiting for this to happen. Then do a final dimensioning,
removing material as evenly as possible from all sides. After glue-up,
again allow the panel to rest where the air can freely get to all
sides, not lying flat on a benchtop, for example. Sealing/finishing all
sides and edges will help your efforts, too. Tom

"Garry Collins" wrote in message
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board. I am positive that the board was flat in the clamp and stayed
there
for a few days.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

What is important is the proper selection of your material, all the way from
the type, to how it was originally cut from the log, to the moisture content
when you use it.

And there is probably no better way to get a handle on that than:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...91237?v=glance

You will do no better in your search for understanding the reasons for your
problem(s) with wood, guaranteed.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Also consider that your jointer is never at a perfect 90 degrees. The
way to correct for this is to alternate the cuts. Rather than edge join
all of the boards with the down side against the fence, alternate; down
side against, down side away. Also if you use a lot of pressure on your
clamps, they will bow a bit. This is why you alternate clamps, one up,
one down.
robo hippy

robo hippy wrote:

Also consider that your jointer is never at a perfect 90 degrees. The
way to correct for this is to ...

set the fence properly.

"Garry Collins" wrote in message
...
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board. I am positive that the board was flat in the clamp and stayed
there
for a few days.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

Several responses, some good advice. Above all, have your wood acclimated.
Could be a couple of weeks, could be more, depending on the source and
storage of the wood. Construction grade with high turnover may have to shed
10% to get in line with indoor conditions, because it leaves the mill at
~20% moisture content. That's a couple months. Second, get edges at 90
degrees before you draw the clamps. Don't have to be anal about it, you can
set the jointer fence at a clean angle, or you can do the flippity flip. I
figure that fence is better at holding 90 than I am, so I take what it
gives.

Then there's the "smiles" controversy. I think its a pretense. I get the
boards arrayed to look the best and glue 'em. Years in dad's shop, my shop,
school shop seem to show that it really doesn't make much difference as long
as you don't try to join the first board away from the heart to others of
its ring curvature.

What can make a huge difference is the way you use the clamps. You want
center of the screw aligned with center of the board with pipe or bar types,
and there are few who take the time. Can screw things up real fast if you
don't draw straight through the center, but toward an edge. I use some of
my handy shims to elevate the glueup and make it so. The Besseys are a good
thing to have, but I still alternate. Lay a board across the glueup to
check for flat, even if you're not using cauls.

"Garry Collins" wrote in message
...
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board.

When you say finished... do you mean assembled or
poly/shellac/varnish/lacquer?

Did you "fininsh" one side of the board? You need to finish all sides of
board. or you can expect serious cupping.

robo hippy wrote:
Also consider that your jointer is never at a perfect 90 degrees. The
way to correct for this is to alternate the cuts.

Why not just fix the tool? G

My DJ-20 rarely finds 90 degrees all by itself. Three seconds with the
6" combo square in my pocket and a twist on one lever makes it all
perfect. It's so easy that I no longer bother to fine tune the 90
degree stop.

The same can be said for all blades and miter gauges. 10 seconds of
checking can save a bunch of rework and wasted material.

Barry

On 22 Nov 2005 15:09:04 GMT, Garry Collins
wrote:

I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches. Each time that I try the finished board seems to warp across the
board. I am positive that the board was flat in the clamp and stayed there
for a few days.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the end
grain at the end of the boards important?

Thanks for your help.

damn... nobody mentioned an over weight Shakespeare??


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"B a r r y" wrote in message
robo hippy wrote:
Also consider that your jointer is never at a perfect 90 degrees. The
way to correct for this is to alternate the cuts.

Why not just fix the tool? G

My DJ-20 rarely finds 90 degrees all by itself. Three seconds with the
6" combo square in my pocket and a twist on one lever makes it all
perfect. It's so easy that I no longer bother to fine tune the 90
degree stop.

The same can be said for all blades and miter gauges. 10 seconds of
checking can save a bunch of rework and wasted material.

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

.... and I generally need all the help I can get.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:

"B a r r y" wrote in message
robo hippy wrote:
Also consider that your jointer is never at a perfect 90 degrees. The
way to correct for this is to alternate the cuts.

Why not just fix the tool? G

My DJ-20 rarely finds 90 degrees all by itself. Three seconds with the
6" combo square in my pocket and a twist on one lever makes it all
perfect. It's so easy that I no longer bother to fine tune the 90
degree stop.

The same can be said for all blades and miter gauges. 10 seconds of
checking can save a bunch of rework and wasted material.

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

The one thing I don't like about it is that (on average) it means
jointing half of the boards against the grain...

Swingman wrote:

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

I do it with hand planes (pairings), but never had the reason with
decent power tools.

No, when I saw the thread title my first thought was Burl Ives...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
wasted material.

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing
stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

The one thing I don't like about it is that (on average) it means
jointing half of the boards against the grain...

C'mon, Duane ... that's really stretching it as a reason. We're talking edge
jointing boards for panel glue-up, not face jointing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
wasted material.

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing
stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

The one thing I don't like about it is that (on average) it means
jointing half of the boards against the grain...

In my experience edge jointing boards for panel glue-ups that would rank
somewhere down there with the least of my worries.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
wasted material.

Agreed ... but I still alternate cuts on the jointer when preparing
stock
for panel glue-ups. It is a simple, effective way to put a proven
geometrical principle to work in my favor.

The one thing I don't like about it is that (on average) it means
jointing half of the boards against the grain...

In my experience edge jointing boards for panel glue-ups that would rank
somewhere down there with the least of my worries.


'Pends on the stock....I've been doing a lot of maple recently and it is
really nasty about tearout...then one has the little flecky spots on the
edges that don't _quite_ mesh. W/ something like oak or walnut, one
would undoubtedly never notice.

"Chris Friesen" wrote

Garry Collins wrote:
I am just getting into edge gluing to make wide boards, say around 18
inches.

Should I use several narrow boards or a couple of wider boards? Is the
end grain at the end of the boards important?

You can find lots of information on this by looking for things like "edge
gluing" in a search engine.

There are lots of others out there with more experience than me, but one
way to minimize this is to use narrow boards and arrange them so that the
curve of the end grain alternates up and down. If the boards warp, you'll
get a slightly wavy top rather than a totally cupped one.

Sadly, you'll also get a board composed of strips whose grain runs in
alternate directions.

Can't win can you?

Jeff G

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

Duane Bozarth wrote:

'Pends on the stock....I've been doing a lot of maple recently and it is
really nasty about tearout...then one has the little flecky spots on the
edges that don't _quite_ mesh.

Or the tearout happens on the corner, which will show on the face.

Barry

"B a r r y" wrote in message
Duane Bozarth wrote:

'Pends on the stock....I've been doing a lot of maple recently and it is
really nasty about tearout...then one has the little flecky spots on the
edges that don't _quite_ mesh.

Or the tearout happens on the corner, which will show on the face.

If you guys are having that much trouble with tearout while edge jointing,
and as someone mentioned earlier, you guys need to "fix the tool" and hone
those blades.

.... and rough cut your stock _long_ while you're at it.

gd&r

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:

"B a r r y" wrote in message
Duane Bozarth wrote:

'Pends on the stock....I've been doing a lot of maple recently and it is
really nasty about tearout...then one has the little flecky spots on the
edges that don't _quite_ mesh.

Or the tearout happens on the corner, which will show on the face.

If you guys are having that much trouble with tearout while edge jointing,
and as someone mentioned earlier, you guys need to "fix the tool" and hone
those blades.

BTDT...gnarly grain on a jointer _will_ have some minor tearout -- going
against the grain simply makes it worse...

... and rough cut your stock _long_ while you're at it.

Do that, too....won't help through the middle if a little chipout
occurs...

As noted before, on straight-grained or easy stock, it isn't much of an
issue. On other stock it can be a pita. I'd rather have the jointer
fence set perpendicularly and joint w/ the grain as much as possible.

Among other things it just sounds better besides to hear the clean swish
as opposed to the little breaky-splintery noises...

On 22 Nov 2005 11:31:11 -0800, " wrote:

No, when I saw the thread title my first thought was Burl Ives...

roflmao....
that, too...

I only wish that I had some helpful hints, but I've had terrible luck with wide
stock warping.. *sigh*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message

As noted before, on straight-grained or easy stock, it isn't much of an
issue. On other stock it can be a pita.

There are a number of ways to mitigate that problem, one being precisely the
method you've been objecting to.

I'd rather have the jointer
fence set perpendicularly

I'd hope so. Why would anyone attempting flat panel glue-ups set the jointer
fence any other way?

.. and joint w/ the grain as much as possible.

I gotta admit being surprised at you guys having such resistance to this
simple procedure.

In actuality, the 'alternating faces against the jointer fence' method does
not, in any way, preclude you from doing that at all.

The solution to what you have been perceiving as a problem with the method
is to simply flip, end for end, the offending board in your panel layout
during jointing, while maintaining the original intended face-to-fence
orientation.

You really should give it a try sometime ... in panel glue-ups, attention to
all these little details generally add up to a much flatter results.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message

As noted before, on straight-grained or easy stock, it isn't much of an
issue. On other stock it can be a pita.

There are a number of ways to mitigate that problem, one being precisely the
method you've been objecting to.

I'd rather have the jointer
fence set perpendicularly

I'd hope so. Why would anyone attempting flat panel glue-ups set the jointer
fence any other way?

.. and joint w/ the grain as much as possible.

I gotta admit being surprised at you guys having such resistance to this
simple procedure.

In actuality, the 'alternating faces against the jointer fence' method does
not, in any way, preclude you from doing that at all.

The solution to what you have been perceiving as a problem with the method
is to simply flip, end for end, the offending board in your panel layout
during jointing, while maintaining the original intended face-to-fence
orientation.

You really should give it a try sometime ... in panel glue-ups, attention to
all these little details generally add up to a much flatter results.


Gee, your're really serious here????

I thought we was funnin' w/ "reasons why my preference is the one and
only way..."

But, from a practical standpoint, if the fence is truly perpendicular,
the benefit from the swap procedure is precisely _none_. If the fence
isn't perpendicular but only close, then it's another variable to add to
a potential problem during glue up of requiring keeping track of which
face was jointed in the correct direction to make the error cancel.

Plus, I still contend that w/ stock that is prone to tearout (the maple
I'm currently using mostly) it makes a lot more sense to joint it in the
way preferential to grain direction.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:26:47 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On 22 Nov 2005 11:31:11 -0800, " wrote:

No, when I saw the thread title my first thought was Burl Ives...

Actually, I was thinking Shakespeare and Dali's "Persistance of Time"


roflmao....
that, too...

I only wish that I had some helpful hints, but I've had terrible luck with wide
stock warping.. *sigh*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:15:55 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:26:47 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On 22 Nov 2005 11:31:11 -0800, " wrote:

No, when I saw the thread title my first thought was Burl Ives...

Actually, I was thinking Shakespeare and Dali's "Persistance of Time"


Make that "Persistance of Memory"




roflmao....
that, too...

I only wish that I had some helpful hints, but I've had terrible luck with wide
stock warping.. *sigh*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message

Gee, your're really serious here????

I thought we was funnin' w/ "reasons why my preference is the one and
only way..."

Actually, I was making what turned out to a miserable attempt at "funnin'"
.... I was trying to throw Professer Bozarth's best "stating the obvious"
tone back at you with a tongue in cheek version of "if tearout is all you're
worried about, turn the goddamn board around!!" ... but I got distracted and
....well, left out the pertinent bits.

What the hell ... that's what you get when these womenfolk keep kissing you
on the cheek while reaching for your wallet.

Have a good Thanksgiving, Duane ... hope that freeze don't get you too bad.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:

....

Have a good Thanksgiving, Duane ... hope that freeze don't get you too bad.


Well, it was 70 today...You have a goodun, too...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

What the hell ... that's what you get when these womenfolk keep kissing
you
on the cheek while reaching for your wallet.


LOL.... It seems to be a tried and true method that works well with my
wife.