Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it
primarily to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it primarily
to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave

That would be my choice.

"Leon" wrote in message

"David" wrote in message

Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it
primarily
to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

That would be my choice.

I've been lusting after one myself, but I'd have to keep it in the living
room.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Swingman wrote:
I've been lusting after one myself, but I'd have to keep it in the
living
room.

As long as you've got a branch from the DC, it sounds okay to me! Tom

Swingman wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message


"David" wrote in message


Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it

primarily

to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.


That would be my choice.


I've been lusting after one myself, but I'd have to keep it in the living
room.

no prob. I'll make some space in my shop for it. You can visit it any
time. ;-)
mahalo,
jo4hn

Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.

Layne

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:55:02 -0800, David wrote:

Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it
primarily to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave

"Layne" wrote in message
...
Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.

Did he change it because it wore out, or to change grades?

Swingman wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message


"David" wrote in message


Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it

primarily

to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.


That would be my choice.


I've been lusting after one myself, but I'd have to keep it in the living
room.

There won't be any room in the living room for the sander--SWMBO wants a
sofa bed if I buy the sander. g

dave

David wrote:
Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it
primarily to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave

Nope. But for veneer - depending on thickness - you may need to make a
carrier board to avoid the drum contacting the transport belt. Easy to
do, piece of masonite with some strips of sandpaper glued on.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

I've been lusting after one myself, but I'd have to keep it in the living
room.



It'll fit in your living room. Whats the hold up??? LOL

Dave,

I have the 16/32 and it's been great - some minor annoyances but nothing
major. The 22/44 as I recall it does have a different arm assembly (better)
than the 16/32. The adjustment of the drum - being parallel to the base or
carrier you use, will be critical to your application and something you need
to check out.

For that kind of money, it would be worth it to me to go to a dealer that
has one you can inspect or even try. The Performax doesn't use any Velcro
or other backings on it's drum so there won't be any give there. You want a
hard surface both on the drum and base. My only real complaint is the
height adjuster - and maybe they have fixed that by now. It has enough
backlash (~1/8 of a turn) that if you're doing some precision work, this
will annoy you to no end. It needs a locking mechanism of some sort or a
more positive method of making the drum adjustment. I know that's about as
clear as mud but try adjusting the height of the drum and then reverse the
adjuster - how much play do you feel?

I've had mine about 3 years now and there have been projects and gnarly wood
sanded that just wouldn't have been done any other way without getting a lot
of tearout. Keep in mind, this is not a planer. You will need to take many
passes to remove lots of wood unless you're using 30 grit paper. It is also
not a finish sander. You will see the striations from the sandpaper no
matter what grit you use - you will need to use your ROS or scraper for the
final finishing.

Good rolls of paper, X-weight, cloth-back, cost around $5 per roll but you
can do better by buying bulk. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can ruin
a roll of fine grit paper and have burn marks on your stock just because you
got a bit aggressive with the adjustment knob. Minimal depth passes with
the fine grits and have a good belt cleaner (big gummy like eraser) and
you'll get a lot of life out of the rolls. As for installing the rolls,
they have a special tool on the 16/32 to get at the clamp assembly that
holds the paper in place on mine. No big deal - it works and after the
first roll, you'll have it figured out. Not sure the model you're
considering uses the same clamp assy or not. And....don't ever fire that
thing up without a DC connected to it and turned on... Boy, can you fill a
shop full of dust real quick....

All in all - if my 16/32 croaked today - I would get another Performax.

Bob S.


"David" wrote in message
...
Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it primarily
to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave

I have had one for about 10 years. It is basically a good machine
but.... One change that I made, that Performax didn't was to wire the
motor for 220. As it was, the sander would bog down way more than I
thought it should. My dad (a mechanical engineer) had another model
with the same motor, and encountered the same problem. One mistake he
made when rewiring, was he wired the whole thing (motor and drive) for
220. The drive motor fried. You will have to add a switch for the
motor, and keep the one for the drive. The sander hasn't bogged down
even slightly since then no matter how much I try to take off at one
time. The newer stands look much nicer. The older models had legs that
stuck out a ways both front and back and side ways. For a while I would
trip over them, but have learned to avoid them.

I do make 30 or so pieces of furniture a year. When doing panels (table
tops and shelves) I will take them and have them comercially done. It
is a LOT faster. I do run all of my stretchers and legs through, as
this is practical. This isn't really a production machine, but it does
a good job. I haven't used any other sander, so I can't compare it.

As far as wrapping the sandpaper around the drum, I never had any
problems. That is in part because I had experience of wrapping 1000
plus 1/2 inch by 24 inch dowels with 1 inch leather strips for flower
sticks (a juggling toy).
robo hippy

BobS wrote:

Dave,

I have the 16/32 and it's been great - some minor annoyances but nothing
major. The 22/44 as I recall it does have a different arm assembly (better)
than the 16/32. The adjustment of the drum - being parallel to the base or
carrier you use, will be critical to your application and something you need
to check out.

For that kind of money, it would be worth it to me to go to a dealer that
has one you can inspect or even try. The Performax doesn't use any Velcro
or other backings on it's drum so there won't be any give there. You want a
hard surface both on the drum and base. My only real complaint is the
height adjuster - and maybe they have fixed that by now. It has enough
backlash (~1/8 of a turn) that if you're doing some precision work, this
will annoy you to no end. It needs a locking mechanism of some sort or a
more positive method of making the drum adjustment. I know that's about as
clear as mud but try adjusting the height of the drum and then reverse the
adjuster - how much play do you feel?

I've had mine about 3 years now and there have been projects and gnarly wood
sanded that just wouldn't have been done any other way without getting a lot
of tearout. Keep in mind, this is not a planer. You will need to take many
passes to remove lots of wood unless you're using 30 grit paper. It is also
not a finish sander. You will see the striations from the sandpaper no
matter what grit you use - you will need to use your ROS or scraper for the
final finishing.

Good rolls of paper, X-weight, cloth-back, cost around $5 per roll but you
can do better by buying bulk. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can ruin
a roll of fine grit paper and have burn marks on your stock just because you
got a bit aggressive with the adjustment knob. Minimal depth passes with
the fine grits and have a good belt cleaner (big gummy like eraser) and
you'll get a lot of life out of the rolls. As for installing the rolls,
they have a special tool on the 16/32 to get at the clamp assembly that
holds the paper in place on mine. No big deal - it works and after the
first roll, you'll have it figured out. Not sure the model you're
considering uses the same clamp assy or not. And....don't ever fire that
thing up without a DC connected to it and turned on... Boy, can you fill a
shop full of dust real quick....

All in all - if my 16/32 croaked today - I would get another Performax.

Bob S.


"David" wrote in message
...

Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the
Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it primarily
to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.

Dave



Thanks for the in depth reply, Bob!

The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and
knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper.
He said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He
recommended Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to pricey.
3 grits would set me back over $215!

Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster
cautioned me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table
at 1/32". I'd heard that before too.

How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width cuts?
My Dewalt planer is the only tool in my shop that bogs down, although
after changing the circuit it's plugged in to, it does better. I guess
I was getting some voltage sag on the first one.

The striations issue is one I didn't know about.

Dave

Dave,

I've purchased mainly Klingspor rolls ( http://www.klingspor.com/ ) from a
company in PA (have to find url) and have tried a couple of other brands of
lesser quality but were also about half the cost (in bulk). Results were
poor, and I wasted a lot of paper due to it heating up, getting clogged and
then burning. I tossed it and only have the Klingspor bulk rolls and some
of the pre-cut Jet rolls that I bought with the sander.

I have not made veneer per se for a project but yes, I have taken some 12"
wide (waste) sections of panels and sanded them down to about 1/16" just to
see really how accurate the whole setup was and could I do it. Some trial
and tribulations but feed the stock at the fastest feed rate with a very
light depth setting. The manual will explain how to test your initial pass.
For thin stock, use a carrier made from MDF with some hardwood edges
biscuited on along the sides and leading edge that are proud of the 3/4"
thick MDF by the amount you want your veneer thickness. When you get down
to making the final passes on your veneer, mark pencil lines all along the
tops of the hardwood edges on the carrier. As you sand the final passes,
the pencil marks will just start to get hit with the sandpaper - indicating
you're at the thickness you want. If they're removed equally from the edges,
it means you've got an almost perfect alignment. Be consistent in the way
you wrap on the paper to the drum and you should have similar results from
all your rolls.

The need for the leading edge piece of hardwood is to keep your veneer
trapped on the carrier. At the thickness you want for veneer, if you place
double-side tape on the carrier to hold the veneer, those will become high
spots and telegraph right thru - ruining your veneer. Better to just
slightly dampen (mist the carrier) and then lay and press the veneer flat to
the carrier. That may not be necessary but I found it helpful when doing
other thin pieces using a carrier when I couldn't use tape.

The 22/44 has a sturdier drum arm and although I've never aligned one of
those, the 16/32 takes a bit of persistence and a couple of tricks to get it
dead-on parallel. Actually though for sanding panels wider than 16", you
want the drum a thousandth or two high on the outside so when you turn the
panel for the next pass, a ridge is not left down the center of the panel.
If you mic'd the thickness from edge of panel to center, it would be a few
thou thicker - easily removed during final sanding if you're concerned about
it.

As for bogging down - oh yeah. Real fine grit paper and too deep a cut will
result in mass destruction of your stock. For door gnarly-grained panels
that I've done, I've used 80 grit to plane down to almost final thickness
then followed by 120, 150 and 180 grits to take it to a smidgen above final
desired thickness. The ROS and 220 and above (depending on the item) are the
final sanding steps. As you'll find out, speed is good. Get the stock going
under the drum at the highest feed speed and at the lightest depth of cut
when using grits above 120. Coarser grits, slower feed speed and you can
hog off some real wood quickly. Just remember, those grooves made by 36
grit paper are real deep and it takes a lot of sanding on hardwoods to get
them out.

The striations are due to the stock passing under the sandpaper in a
straight line and even at the finest grits - they're noticeable and you have
to deal with it. Scrape or hand sand - your choice. Now if it was
something that was going to be painted, then 180 grit is final sanding
followed by primer. The paint has some nice grooves to hook into and are
filled by the primer.

You've seen snipe from your planer - expect it on the sander and plan for
it. As on the DeWalt planer, feeding the stock in at a slight angle helps
minimize snipe and lifting the trailing edge and then the leading edge a
smidgen as the stock exits helps too. Same tricks apply for the sander as
they do for the planer.

You're gonna curse that "damn sander" the first week and ruin some stock and
rolls of sandpaper. As I've said here before, practice and more practice on
your technique, learn the machine, get it aligned and plan on wasting about
$50 worth of sanding rolls. Plan for it, get over the learning curve and
then throw your first real wood at it. After that initial week, you'll not
regret it one bit and wonder how you went so long without one.

Can you get a better sander for what you want to do with it - I don't know
but hopefully someone here can jump in and tell you they own the 22/44 and
they make veneer and.........

Yer welcome,

Bob S.

"
Thanks for the in depth reply, Bob!

The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and
knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper. He
said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He recommended
Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to pricey. 3 grits would
set me back over $215!

Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster cautioned
me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table at 1/32".
I'd heard that before too.

How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width cuts? My
Dewalt planer is the only tool in my shop that bogs down, although after
changing the circuit it's plugged in to, it does better. I guess I was
getting some voltage sag on the first one.

The striations issue is one I didn't know about.

Dave

"BobS" wrote in message
Dave,

I've purchased mainly Klingspor rolls ( http://www.klingspor.com/ ) from a
company in PA (have to find url) and have tried a couple of other brands
of


Thanks ... your post is going in the "Save" folder, while I drool a while
longer trying to figure out where to put a 22-44.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

On 2005-11-08, BobS wrote:

I have not made veneer per se for a project but yes, I have taken
some 12" wide (waste) sections of panels and sanded them down to
about 1/16" just to see really how accurate the whole setup was and
could I do it. Some trial and tribulations but feed the stock at
the fastest feed rate with a very light depth setting.

On a planer a light pass is 1/64". What constitutes a light pass on a
drum sander?

Thanks, Wayne

"Swingman" writes:
"BobS" wrote in message
Dave,

I've purchased mainly Klingspor rolls ( http://www.klingspor.com/ ) from a
company in PA (have to find url) and have tried a couple of other brands
of


Thanks ... your post is going in the "Save" folder, while I drool a while
longer trying to figure out where to put a 22-44.

I ended up getting one without the stand and setting it on a table I
already had occupying space in the shop (it formerly held a mortice
machine and a disk/belt sander).

The are fussy to get the drum parallel to the table, locking down the
bolts tends to raise the outboard end of the drum a bit.

scott

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

I ended up getting one without the stand and setting it on a table I
already had occupying space in the shop (it formerly held a mortice
machine and a disk/belt sander).

Sad thing is I have the perfect heavy duty machine stand for it, one that
was recently given to me, but I had to put it out behind the shop because
there is no room for it inside.

That said, I just took delivery on three of those large, outdoor 'deck'
storage containers. I might build a platform for them around back, move some
of the wood and expendables there, and make some room that way.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

I don't know if this applies to the 22/44 model but it works like a charm on
the 16/32. There were a couple of sites that had some good tips on these
sanders a couple of years ago and this one is still up
http://www.joewoodworker.com/performax.htm

Click on the Figure 1 for a better picture. I installed two nylon washers
with the steel washers backing them up. Allows for a little "better feel"
when you're sneaking up on that last thou. The alignment procedure works
too but I modified it slightly to make it easier. Best that you just do it
first - then it will be intuitive as to what works for you and what
doesn't - adjust accordingly.

Glad the other info was of some value but please note that there are other
good sandpaper manufacturers out there. Klingspor seemed to be a good value
as well as a decent product to use on this sander. So buy a roll or two of
some others and make your own comparisons for the work you typically do.
Primarily, you need a paper that won't stretch when it gets hot and if you
hit a pitch pocket when it is - that particular roll is toast is the wood
from that point on is gonna be burned like you wouldn't believe. So look
closely at your wood before sanding - just like you scan your rough sawn
wood with a metal detector before you put it thru that planer - right?
Yeah, I thought so.......;-)

Bob S.


"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
. net...
"Swingman" writes:
"BobS" wrote in message
Dave,

I've purchased mainly Klingspor rolls ( http://www.klingspor.com/ ) from
a
company in PA (have to find url) and have tried a couple of other brands
of


Thanks ... your post is going in the "Save" folder, while I drool a while
longer trying to figure out where to put a 22-44.

I ended up getting one without the stand and setting it on a table I
already had occupying space in the shop (it formerly held a mortice
machine and a disk/belt sander).

The are fussy to get the drum parallel to the table, locking down the
bolts tends to raise the outboard end of the drum a bit.

scott

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Wayne,

Less than 1/8th of a turn on the crank works for me - depending on the grit
being used. The manual states that 1 turn of the crank = 1/16" (.0625") so
that means a 1/8th turn is about 1/128" (.0078") which is about the max
depth for the finest grit of 220 that you would want to use. You can easily
burnish the wood with fine grit paper.

The manual has a lot of good information and although I couldn't find the
exact manual for my model, this one is close:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfile...s%20Manual.pdf

The picture shows a dual-drum configuration (16/32 Plus model) which I don't
have. Mine is a single drum. Not sure the picture they show for wrapping
the drums with paper is even a 16/32 series but hey, it's their manual -
they should know.

Bob S.



"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
. ..
On 2005-11-08, BobS wrote:

I have not made veneer per se for a project but yes, I have taken
some 12" wide (waste) sections of panels and sanded them down to
about 1/16" just to see really how accurate the whole setup was and
could I do it. Some trial and tribulations but feed the stock at
the fastest feed rate with a very light depth setting.

On a planer a light pass is 1/64". What constitutes a light pass on a
drum sander?

Thanks, Wayne

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Thanks ... your post is going in the "Save" folder, while I drool a while
longer trying to figure out where to put a 22-44.

Hmmm, that must be my problem. I tend to drool until I have the cash.
Then I order. When it arrives, I try to figure out where it should go.
Hmmm, that might explain why I can't move in my gara....er shop.

Honestly I'm not sure, but it was enough of a frustration to make him
get rid of it. Frankly I'm of the same ilk. A tool shouldn't be
frustrating to use or maintain. Changing a belt seems much simpler
than changing a roll of sandpaper that you have to wrap around a drum.
The main grip my father had though was that when he attached the cap
to secure the sandpaper it would cause the sandpaper to buckle. Again,
I don't have one of these so I'm not sure how these things operate.
Just trying to relate what my father experienced.



On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:01:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Layne" wrote in message
.. .
Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.

Did he change it because it wore out, or to change grades?

David wrote:

The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and
knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper.
He said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He
recommended Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to
pricey. 3 grits would set me back over $215!

A good source of abrasives (all kinds) is Econ-Abrasives in Dallas.
They have a web site but there is nothing there other than name &
address; however, a call to 1-800-367-4101 or email to
will get you a catalog.

Sample prices (catalog 3-4 years old) for the 3" cloth rolls ("X"
weight), grits 100-400 needed for my 16/32...
3" x 50 yards: $41.90
3" x 25 yards: $24.65
Coarser grits are slightly more. IIRC, I get about 10 wraps from 25
yards. Maybe it is 8, really haven't paid attention.
____________________

Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster
cautioned me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table
at 1/32". I'd heard that before too.

The reason that you'll need a sled is that there is some slack in the
drive belt (a wide sanding belt) that moves the stock. Gotta be some
slack else it wouldn't move.

The hold down rollers project a bit below the sanding drum and hold both
stock and belt down; however, where there is no stock to provide
pressure on the drive belt it will raise up a bit and contact the
sanding drum. That is bad because it will mess it up and the drive
belts are expensive!
_____________________

How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width
cuts?

Depends on several factors...
1. Drive speed (I usually use 50-60% of max, faster if boards are in the
3-4" width range)
2. Grit
3. Wood hardness
4. Depth of cut

I use mostly three grits...
1. #40 to rough surface stock. I can take 1/16 off a 10" oak board.
2. #80 - I usually decrease height in increments of 1/48"
3. #120 - ditto to #80

I also use (rarely) #180 but generally stop at #120. In the time it
takes to change frits on the drum and run stock through I can use a
finishing sander (starting with the same grit as was last used on the
drum) to get to a smaller grit more easily. By the time I've used #120
on the drum the boards are flat and true, takes very little time with a
finish sander. YMMV

One thing many are not aware of - it takes more than one pass at a given
height setting to bring a board to that thickness. Either that or a
*very* slow feed rate. When you get down to the short strokes, remove
very little at once.
___________________

The striations issue is one I didn't know about.

Yeah, granules of aluminum oxide make marks

OTOH, they are handy because they are easy to see on a board when
looking at it with oblique light and you can easily tell when your
orbital sander has removed them.
___________________

One more caveat: avoid resinous wood like southern pine - it will mess
up a roll of abrasive in a hurry.

Last word...you are going to love - absolutely *LOVE* - a drum sander!!

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:

David wrote:


The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and
knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper.
He said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He
recommended Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to
pricey. 3 grits would set me back over $215!


A good source of abrasives (all kinds) is Econ-Abrasives in Dallas.
They have a web site but there is nothing there other than name &
address; however, a call to 1-800-367-4101 or email to
will get you a catalog.

Sample prices (catalog 3-4 years old) for the 3" cloth rolls ("X"
weight), grits 100-400 needed for my 16/32...
3" x 50 yards: $41.90
3" x 25 yards: $24.65
Coarser grits are slightly more. IIRC, I get about 10 wraps from 25
yards. Maybe it is 8, really haven't paid attention.
____________________


Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster
cautioned me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table
at 1/32". I'd heard that before too.


The reason that you'll need a sled is that there is some slack in the
drive belt (a wide sanding belt) that moves the stock. Gotta be some
slack else it wouldn't move.

The hold down rollers project a bit below the sanding drum and hold both
stock and belt down; however, where there is no stock to provide
pressure on the drive belt it will raise up a bit and contact the
sanding drum. That is bad because it will mess it up and the drive
belts are expensive!
_____________________


How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width
cuts?


Depends on several factors...
1. Drive speed (I usually use 50-60% of max, faster if boards are in the
3-4" width range)
2. Grit
3. Wood hardness
4. Depth of cut

I use mostly three grits...
1. #40 to rough surface stock. I can take 1/16 off a 10" oak board.
2. #80 - I usually decrease height in increments of 1/48"
3. #120 - ditto to #80

I also use (rarely) #180 but generally stop at #120. In the time it
takes to change frits on the drum and run stock through I can use a
finishing sander (starting with the same grit as was last used on the
drum) to get to a smaller grit more easily. By the time I've used #120
on the drum the boards are flat and true, takes very little time with a
finish sander. YMMV

One thing many are not aware of - it takes more than one pass at a given
height setting to bring a board to that thickness. Either that or a
*very* slow feed rate. When you get down to the short strokes, remove
very little at once.
___________________


The striations issue is one I didn't know about.


Yeah, granules of aluminum oxide make marks

OTOH, they are handy because they are easy to see on a board when
looking at it with oblique light and you can easily tell when your
orbital sander has removed them.
___________________

One more caveat: avoid resinous wood like southern pine - it will mess
up a roll of abrasive in a hurry.

Last word...you are going to love - absolutely *LOVE* - a drum sander!!

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



Thanks for so much info! How long does it take for you to switch grits?
I'd never use pine.

dave

dadiOH wrote:

David wrote:


The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and
knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper.
He said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He
recommended Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to
pricey. 3 grits would set me back over $215!


A good source of abrasives (all kinds) is Econ-Abrasives in Dallas.
They have a web site but there is nothing there other than name &
address; however, a call to 1-800-367-4101 or email to
will get you a catalog.

Sample prices (catalog 3-4 years old) for the 3" cloth rolls ("X"
weight), grits 100-400 needed for my 16/32...
3" x 50 yards: $41.90
3" x 25 yards: $24.65
Coarser grits are slightly more. IIRC, I get about 10 wraps from 25
yards. Maybe it is 8, really haven't paid attention.
____________________


Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster
cautioned me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table
at 1/32". I'd heard that before too.


The reason that you'll need a sled is that there is some slack in the
drive belt (a wide sanding belt) that moves the stock. Gotta be some
slack else it wouldn't move.

The hold down rollers project a bit below the sanding drum and hold both
stock and belt down; however, where there is no stock to provide
pressure on the drive belt it will raise up a bit and contact the
sanding drum. That is bad because it will mess it up and the drive
belts are expensive!
_____________________


How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width
cuts?


Depends on several factors...
1. Drive speed (I usually use 50-60% of max, faster if boards are in the
3-4" width range)
2. Grit
3. Wood hardness
4. Depth of cut

I use mostly three grits...
1. #40 to rough surface stock. I can take 1/16 off a 10" oak board.
2. #80 - I usually decrease height in increments of 1/48"
3. #120 - ditto to #80

I also use (rarely) #180 but generally stop at #120. In the time it
takes to change frits on the drum and run stock through I can use a
finishing sander (starting with the same grit as was last used on the
drum) to get to a smaller grit more easily. By the time I've used #120
on the drum the boards are flat and true, takes very little time with a
finish sander. YMMV

One thing many are not aware of - it takes more than one pass at a given
height setting to bring a board to that thickness. Either that or a
*very* slow feed rate. When you get down to the short strokes, remove
very little at once.
___________________


The striations issue is one I didn't know about.


Yeah, granules of aluminum oxide make marks

OTOH, they are handy because they are easy to see on a board when
looking at it with oblique light and you can easily tell when your
orbital sander has removed them.
___________________

One more caveat: avoid resinous wood like southern pine - it will mess
up a roll of abrasive in a hurry.

Last word...you are going to love - absolutely *LOVE* - a drum sander!!

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



Thanks for so much info! How long does it take for you to switch grits?
I'd never use pine.

dave
I just bought a 10-20 for my home shop. I used the bandsaw to cut the veneer
and then flattened them to 50 and 70 thousands of an inch. IT worked very
well. Alignment of the drum to conveyor is critical at these thicknesses.
max

David wrote:

Thanks for so much info! How long does it take for you to switch
grits? I'd never use pine.

Gee, I've never timed it. Not long...unhook from right end, pull off
and roll up, unhook other end, hook first end of replacement, rotate
drum while keeping tension on sanding strip until all wound, hook right
end. Maybe a minute? Minute and a half?

A couple of other points...

1. If the one you are thinking of purchasing is like the 16-32 the left
roll clamp is just a clamp but the right one is *also* a tensioner. It
is easy to do, hard to explain but once the strip is wound on the drum
you release the right clamp with one finger and - while holding the
clamp open - shove the tapered roll end into the slot. Once in, move
your finger horizontally clockwise (viewed from right side) and *THEN*
release the clamp. If you just release the clamp the tensioner won't
work, all is explained in the manual.

Additionally, the taper of the sanding strip needs to be such that it
does NOT fill the takeup slot completely else the tensioner can't take
up slack as the roll stretches.

2. When you get the sander it will probably have at least one cut
sanding strip with it. When that strip wears out, don't throw it
away...use it as a template to cut new ones.

3. There is no problem if there are gaps between spiral sections of the
sanding strip on the drum; however, NEVER let the spiral ride up on
itself else you will burn the wood and get a glazed area on the sanding
strip. If that happens, don't throw the strip away, just sand stuff in
another area of the strip.

4. When you change sanding rolls, get in the habit of rewinding what you
are taking off in the opposite direction as it was when you wound it on.
Next time you use it it will be wound on oppsite to the first time and -
assuming you tend to sand in one area of the drum (I do) - wear on the
strip will be equalized.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:

David wrote:


Thanks for so much info! How long does it take for you to switch
grits? I'd never use pine.


Gee, I've never timed it. Not long...unhook from right end, pull off
and roll up, unhook other end, hook first end of replacement, rotate
drum while keeping tension on sanding strip until all wound, hook right
end. Maybe a minute? Minute and a half?

A couple of other points...

1. If the one you are thinking of purchasing is like the 16-32 the left
roll clamp is just a clamp but the right one is *also* a tensioner. It
is easy to do, hard to explain but once the strip is wound on the drum
you release the right clamp with one finger and - while holding the
clamp open - shove the tapered roll end into the slot. Once in, move
your finger horizontally clockwise (viewed from right side) and *THEN*
release the clamp. If you just release the clamp the tensioner won't
work, all is explained in the manual.

Additionally, the taper of the sanding strip needs to be such that it
does NOT fill the takeup slot completely else the tensioner can't take
up slack as the roll stretches.

2. When you get the sander it will probably have at least one cut
sanding strip with it. When that strip wears out, don't throw it
away...use it as a template to cut new ones.

3. There is no problem if there are gaps between spiral sections of the
sanding strip on the drum; however, NEVER let the spiral ride up on
itself else you will burn the wood and get a glazed area on the sanding
strip. If that happens, don't throw the strip away, just sand stuff in
another area of the strip.

4. When you change sanding rolls, get in the habit of rewinding what you
are taking off in the opposite direction as it was when you wound it on.
Next time you use it it will be wound on oppsite to the first time and -
assuming you tend to sand in one area of the drum (I do) - wear on the
strip will be equalized.

--
dadiOH

Great additional info! Thanks!

Dave

Layne wrote:
Honestly I'm not sure, but it was enough of a frustration to make him
get rid of it. Frankly I'm of the same ilk. A tool shouldn't be
frustrating to use or maintain. Changing a belt seems much simpler
than changing a roll of sandpaper that you have to wrap around a drum.
The main grip my father had though was that when he attached the cap
to secure the sandpaper it would cause the sandpaper to buckle. Again,
I don't have one of these so I'm not sure how these things operate.
Just trying to relate what my father experienced.



On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:01:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Layne" wrote in message
. ..

Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.


Did he change it because it wore out, or to change grades?



FYI, they've begun providing a new hook tool to facilitate changing
paper on the Performax. It took me about 1 minute (maybe 2) to change
grades on the 22-44. The hook tool hooks into a hole on the
spring-loaded clamps that previously you had to use your fingers to
compress.

I was really impressed with how solidly built the 22-44 is. I've heard
Delta has had some serious quality problems with their sanders. In
addition, the Performax seem to be the only ones that will adjust down
to 1/16", critical if you want to make veneers. Some other clones I
considered wouldn't reduce past 1/4".

~Mark.

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Layne wrote:
Honestly I'm not sure, but it was enough of a frustration to make him
get rid of it. Frankly I'm of the same ilk. A tool shouldn't be
frustrating to use or maintain. Changing a belt seems much simpler
than changing a roll of sandpaper that you have to wrap around a drum.
The main grip my father had though was that when he attached the cap
to secure the sandpaper it would cause the sandpaper to buckle. Again,
I don't have one of these so I'm not sure how these things operate.
Just trying to relate what my father experienced.



On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:01:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Layne" wrote in message
...

Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.


Did he change it because it wore out, or to change grades?


FYI, they've begun providing a new hook tool to facilitate changing paper
on the Performax. It took me about 1 minute (maybe 2) to change grades on
the 22-44. The hook tool hooks into a hole on the spring-loaded clamps
that previously you had to use your fingers to compress.

I was really impressed with how solidly built the 22-44 is. I've heard
Delta has had some serious quality problems with their sanders. In
addition, the Performax seem to be the only ones that will adjust down to
1/16", critical if you want to make veneers. Some other clones I
considered wouldn't reduce past 1/4".

~Mark.

I recently got a 16-32, and it also came with "the hook". Handy tool. I can
change grits in under a minute. The only trouble I have ever had is when
trying to be too aggressive with finer grits.

Woody wrote:

Layne wrote:

Honestly I'm not sure, but it was enough of a frustration to make him
get rid of it. Frankly I'm of the same ilk. A tool shouldn't be
frustrating to use or maintain. Changing a belt seems much simpler
than changing a roll of sandpaper that you have to wrap around a drum.
The main grip my father had though was that when he attached the cap
to secure the sandpaper it would cause the sandpaper to buckle. Again,
I don't have one of these so I'm not sure how these things operate.
Just trying to relate what my father experienced.



On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:01:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Layne" wrote in message
...

Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax.
Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it
and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to
change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.


Did he change it because it wore out, or to change grades?



FYI, they've begun providing a new hook tool to facilitate changing
paper on the Performax. It took me about 1 minute (maybe 2) to change
grades on the 22-44. The hook tool hooks into a hole on the
spring-loaded clamps that previously you had to use your fingers to
compress.

I was really impressed with how solidly built the 22-44 is. I've heard
Delta has had some serious quality problems with their sanders. In
addition, the Performax seem to be the only ones that will adjust down
to 1/16", critical if you want to make veneers. Some other clones I
considered wouldn't reduce past 1/4".

~Mark.
Wood, if I'm not mistaken, the latest info on the 22-44 shows a min
depth of 1/32". not owning one, I'm not sure if that's achievable...

Dave

I'm not happy with my performax. It's the open ended model on a
tripod. Changing the paper is an art and if not done right can burn a
nasty groove into the piece. Height adjustment is not that precise and
if the board hesitates the drum can sand a series of grooves into the
piece.

I'm looking to upgrade to a unit that uses a belt.

MrAnderson wrote:

I'm not happy with my performax. It's the open ended model on a
tripod. Changing the paper is an art and if not done right can burn a
nasty groove into the piece. Height adjustment is not that precise and
if the board hesitates the drum can sand a series of grooves into the
piece.

I'm looking to upgrade to a unit that uses a belt.

thanks for the input.

I almost ordered the 22-44 but have decided to hold off after realizing
I won't get everything I need for $1,200. There's a chance I'd be much
happier with the pricier closed base model (no splayed out legs), and
then the tables are $100, sandpaper to get started would be around $200,
for a grand total of about $1,700; more than I'd anticipated.


Do you have the 16" wide or the 22"?

Dave

David wrote:

I almost ordered the 22-44 but have decided to hold off after
realizing I won't get everything I need for $1,200. There's a chance
I'd be much happier with the pricier closed base model (no splayed
out legs), and then the tables are $100, sandpaper to get started
would be around $200, for a grand total of about $1,700; more than
I'd anticipated.

Couple of points...

1. It is soooooooo easy to make a table. Mine is 2x4s and particle
board on casters, interior holds a ton of sanding related
stuff...abrasives, belt sanders, orbital sanders, disc sanders, sanding
blocks...some pieces of low pile carpet to but on the bench when I am
hand sanding...etc.

2. The commercial tables aren't worth having, way too short. Believe
me, you will need long infeed/outfeed tables if you ever want to sand
anything of any length or weight...try sanding a 10' long X 10" wide
piece of 8/4 oak without them. One of the nice things about Performax
sanders is that the table is in a fixed position which means you can
easily make extension tables.

I have tables (rollers, actually) on each side hinged to the stand.
They will extend up to 5+', collapse to a length (about 30") that will
fold down and hang at the sides of the stand when not needed. Cost
maybe $10 to make both with scrap wood and 6 - 18" lengths of 1 1/2" PVC
pipe.

3. If you are going to have a power sander - any sander - it needs
abrasive; however you don't need $200 worth to get started.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I do occasionally have boards stall under the drum. My drive belt is
worn, but I don't think that is the reason. Mostly it seems to be
related to having the stuff from the sandpaper cleaning sticks and saw
dust on the drive belt. I keep a foxtail handy to brush off most of the
tailings. I have also.gotten into the habit of keeping a hand on the
board until it is through the sander. This little extra pressure down
prevents slipping. I think that the hold down rollers can be adjusted
also. Once you get the hang of it, wrapping the paper is easy. When
doing shorter pieces, I use a push stick. I make sure that it is
thinner than the stock that I am pushing through. The only step up that
I can see doing is one like where I take my bigger pieces to: 52 inch
wide, 2 sanding belts, and an oscilating head on the end. I took a 36
wide by 84 long by 2 thick hickory top to them to sand. It took 15
minutes and cost $35. Drool!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robo hippy