|
Cost of Heating oil; Cost of lumber?
Just asking:
If the cost of Heating this winter goes up like the cost of Gas, Should we be worried about cost of lumber due to increase in demand for firewood? And just how secure is my wood stash I have in the Garage? Should I be looking for a better lock on the garage door? There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is beginning to look cheap. Phil |
Phil (in ) said:
| Just asking: | | If the cost of Heating this winter goes up like the cost of Gas, | | Should we be worried about cost of lumber due to increase in demand | for firewood? Not until people start buying lumber to put in their furnaces. | And just how secure is my wood stash I have in the Garage? Should | I be looking for a better lock on the garage door? Depends on the wood. If you've stashed 2000BF of rosewood, then you'll probably want /two/ locks. | There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on | top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is | beginning to look cheap. Yup - cut and split it yourself and it'll warm you twice. It's probably worth pointing out that the prices of wind and sunshine haven't changed... -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html |
In article , Phil phil@one
wrote: Should we be worried about cost of lumber due to increase in demand for firewood? Be more worried about the cost of lumber and firewood due to the increased cost for the fuel to cut and transport the stuff. djb -- ~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~ ------------------------------------------------------ One site: http://www.balderstone.ca The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com |
"Phil" no spam phil@one two three four five.com wrote in message There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is beginning to look cheap. Phil Talk? My oil contract this year is 93¢ more that last year. Current prices in CT/MA are about $2.20. Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. |
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:b2IMe.677$zb.64@trndny04... "Phil" no spam phil@one two three four five.com wrote in message There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is beginning to look cheap. Talk? My oil contract this year is 93¢ more that last year. Current prices in CT/MA are about $2.20. Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Ain't that the truth! Thing is, the price of hardwood pulp at the mill has remained the same. Jobbers are just hooking us. |
George wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:b2IMe.677$zb.64@trndny04... "Phil" no spam phil@one two three four five.com wrote in message There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is beginning to look cheap. Talk? My oil contract this year is 93¢ more that last year. Current prices in CT/MA are about $2.20. Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Ain't that the truth! Thing is, the price of hardwood pulp at the mill has remained the same. Jobbers are just hooking us. True of virtually all commodity markets... |
"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:
Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Are the firewood folks really burning that much fuel to cut and haul firewood, or is it all extra profit like the oil companies? Brian Elfert |
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" writes: Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Are the firewood folks really burning that much fuel to cut and haul firewood, or is it all extra profit like the oil companies? Brian Elfert There is some fuel involved, but mostly "because then can". I'll have to check out hte prices now, but last year, one supplier was getting $175 a cord. My rule of thumb is 1 cord = 100 gallons of oil so it did not pay to do all the labor of cutting, hauling it in, etc. Oh get near the big cities and that $175 cord was $300 in Boston. |
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" writes: Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Are the firewood folks really burning that much fuel to cut and haul firewood, or is it all extra profit like the oil companies? Take our situation. They can haul it sixty miles one way and get ~$65 a cord (sells by weight, not volume) as pulp, or ten miles and hook George for $90. Oil companies are making more or less the same per cent profit as always per barrel, but if the price goes up, the total dollars do as well, enabling the press to state that their profits are "at record levels." |
"George" George@least writes:
Oil companies are making more or less the same per cent profit as always per barrel, but if the price goes up, the total dollars do as well, enabling the press to state that their profits are "at record levels." I've not done this, but I bet if someone calculated the percentage of profit versus revenue that the oil companies are making a higher percentage these days. Any company that doesn't have higher profits year after year isn't keeping up with the yearly growth in the economy. Brian Elfert |
Brian Elfert wrote:
"George" George@least writes: Oil companies are making more or less the same per cent profit as always per barrel, but if the price goes up, the total dollars do as well, enabling the press to state that their profits are "at record levels." I've not done this, but I bet if someone calculated the percentage of profit versus revenue that the oil companies are making a higher percentage these days. Any company that doesn't have higher profits year after year isn't keeping up with the yearly growth in the economy. Reading annual/quarterly earnings reports indicates that quite a few aren't, then... |
Duane Bozarth wrote: Brian Elfert wrote: "George" George@least writes: Oil companies are making more or less the same per cent profit as always per barrel, but if the price goes up, the total dollars do as well, enabling the press to state that their profits are "at record levels." I've not done this, but I bet if someone calculated the percentage of profit versus revenue that the oil companies are making a higher percentage these days. Any company that doesn't have higher profits year after year isn't keeping up with the yearly growth in the economy. Reading annual/quarterly earnings reports indicates that quite a few aren't, then... AFAIK, it's unusual for a profit percentage to increase, or drop, by a whole lot. What usually happens is more of an item is sold, at the same percentage of profit, so that there is a gain in profitability. There are numerous tactics for increasing profits that include dropping the profit per unit sold, in order to increase the number of units sold. I read somewhere that one major oil company had a 40% increase in profits, while another had a 60% increase. There was no way to tell what method was used, but I do know that distributors who are attaching what appears to be 6-8 cents a day to gasoline prices are not doing it because the refinery is passing that along. When a barrel of oil goes up, the price of the gasoline goes up, and the price of the gasoline to the refinery/distributor has not yet risen, and may not for a week or two. Thus, the public is getting gouged rather nicely. One local outfit priced their gas at $2.39.9 when the truck filled their tanks. That price increased to $2.47.9 today, though no truck has been near the place. What happened? I think the owner drove through town and realized he was a dime under anyone else, so he tacked most of that on. Profiteering is not at all unusual in such situations. I don't know whether it is moral or not, but I do know that I'd rather pay more for gas with a dealer who prices it honestly from the start than I would from one who pops the price based on what he discovers the market will bear after he has set his normal profit percentage. |
Australopithecus scobis writes:
and anonymous correspondents on Usenet. (Full disclosu The family is about to do the summer vacation thang in a Jeep Cherokee. Whoops.) A Cherokee is a fairly efficient SUV compared with Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions, gas-powered Excursions and the like. I am going on a 4,000 miles trip in September with 3 or 4 of my buddies. We will get a whopping 8.5 to 9.5 MPG on diesel. We will tow an RV. My regular car gets 40MPG as I don't drive my truck that much especially now. Brian Elfert |
"George" George@least wrote in :
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:b2IMe.677$zb.64@trndny04... "Phil" no spam phil@one two three four five.com wrote in message There is talk that heating oil could go up a $1.00 per gallon, on top of the high prices last winter. A couple of cords of wood is beginning to look cheap. Talk? My oil contract this year is 93¢ more that last year. Current prices in CT/MA are about $2.20. Unless you cut your own wood, the cordwood prices tend to follow close behind the oil prices. Ain't that the truth! Thing is, the price of hardwood pulp at the mill has remained the same. Jobbers are just hooking us. Economists will describe this as a demand pull for alternate, or substitute goods. Economists are a dour lot. Buy a good chain saw and a used pickup truck. Oh, and a lathe. Patriarch, who once upon a time... |
"Charlie Self" wrote in message AFAIK, it's unusual for a profit percentage to increase, or drop, by a whole lot. What usually happens is more of an item is sold, at the same percentage of profit, so that there is a gain in profitability. There are numerous tactics for increasing profits that include dropping the profit per unit sold, in order to increase the number of units sold. I read somewhere that one major oil company had a 40% increase in profits, while another had a 60% increase. There was no way to tell what method was used, Percentages can be mis-leading also. If Mobil had sales last year of $1 billion and made $1 profit and this year they sold $2 billion but the profit was $1.60, you could report a 60% increase in earnings. but I do know that distributors who are attaching what appears to be 6-8 cents a day to gasoline prices are not doing it because the refinery is passing that along. When a barrel of oil goes up, the price of the gasoline goes up, and the price of the gasoline to the refinery/distributor has not yet risen, and may not for a week or two. Thus, the public is getting gouged rather nicely. One local outfit priced their gas at $2.39.9 when the truck filled their tanks. That price increased to $2.47.9 today, though no truck has been near the place. What happened? I think the owner drove through town and realized he was a dime under anyone else, so he tacked most of that on. The dealers are told (not requsted) by the distributor to change prices. I know of an instance last year by a local dealer that did not want to increase for the second time the same day. He was politely told he may not get any more deliveries if he did not raise them. I got lucky last week. Prices went up 9¢ and they were getting a delivery and changing the signs while I was pumping. Five minutes later . . . . Profiteering is not at all unusual in such situations. I don't know whether it is moral or not, but I do know that I'd rather pay more for gas with a dealer who prices it honestly from the start than I would from one who pops the price based on what he discovers the market will bear after he has set his normal profit percentage. I'd like to know who is making the money. Dealer? Distributor? Refiner? Arabs? All of the above? |
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com... AFAIK, it's unusual for a profit percentage to increase, or drop, by a whole lot. What usually happens is more of an item is sold, at the same percentage of profit, so that there is a gain in profitability. There are numerous tactics for increasing profits that include dropping the profit per unit sold, in order to increase the number of units sold. The supply/demand curve for gasoline is different that most of the other products that we purchase. I read somewhere that one major oil company had a 40% increase in profits, while another had a 60% increase. There was no way to tell what method was used, but I do know that distributors who are attaching what appears to be 6-8 cents a day to gasoline prices are not doing it because the refinery is passing that along. When a barrel of oil goes up, the price of the gasoline goes up, and the price of the gasoline to the refinery/distributor has not yet risen, and may not for a week or two. Thus, the public is getting gouged rather nicely. One local outfit priced their gas at $2.39.9 when the truck filled their tanks. That price increased to $2.47.9 today, though no truck has been near the place. What happened? I think the owner drove through town and realized he was a dime under anyone else, so he tacked most of that on. Welcome to commodity economics. Profiteering is not at all unusual in such situations. I don't know whether it is moral or not, but I do know that I'd rather pay more for gas with a dealer who prices it honestly from the start than I would from one who pops the price based on what he discovers the market will bear after he has set his normal profit percentage. I don't know where competitive pricing stops and price gouging starts. Unfortunately, based on our purchasing habits, we don't give the oil companies much incentive to lower prices. As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl. todd |
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t... "Charlie Self" wrote in message Profiteering is not at all unusual in such situations. I don't know whether it is moral or not, but I do know that I'd rather pay more for gas with a dealer who prices it honestly from the start than I would from one who pops the price based on what he discovers the market will bear after he has set his normal profit percentage. I'd like to know who is making the money. Dealer? Distributor? Refiner? Arabs? All of the above? Well, if you were invested in Shell Oil, you would have made 30% over the past year. Obviously, the crude oil producers make out like bandits. I'm pretty sure nobody in the supply chain is going broke. I'm actually surprised that gas prices have been as low historically as they have been. I'm not an economist, but I bet the demand curve for gasoline is highly inelastic (I think I'm using the correct term here...it's been a while since Econ 101). What I hope that means is that the demand for gasoline is not affected greatly by the price. But, as happened in the 70s, I think the gas prices are starting to get people's attention. Demand for hybrid vehicles is very strong and I would hope that fuel efficiency is very high on people's concerns when purchasing a car. I'm sensitive to this as I currently have to drive 60 miles per day to get to work. The change I've made is that I've started taking the train most of the time. It's somewhat inconvenient as I have to take the train downtown and then catch another going out to the suburb I work in, but I don't have to sit in traffic and can do my technical reading on the ride. At least I can when some crackhead isn't sitting next to me singing for 30 minutes straight. todd |
Todd Fatheree wrote: As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl. Maybe where you live, but in the SE U.S., we got that news last week, the week before and the week before that. Regional TV newscast and the local "liberal" paper both covered it. No big deal. I still don't like paying closer to three bucks a gallon than is comfortable. One pundit, as noted earlier, has stated that it's likely gasoline will hit $4.67 a gallon by years' end. I was predicting three buck gas months ago, around here (and this is one of the lowest priced areas in the U.S.). The rationales are almost excessively simple. In Europe, it's political greed (taxes) added to high oil prices; here, it's greed, period, not tied to any particular political party. |
Australopithecus scobis wrote: On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:18:52 -0700, Charlie Self wrote: Thus, the public is getting gouged rather nicely. One local outfit priced their gas at $2.39.9 when the truck filled their tanks. That price increased to $2.47.9 today, though no truck has been near the place. What happened? I think the owner drove through town and realized he was a dime under anyone else, so he tacked most of that on. Profiteering is not at all unusual in such situations. I don't know whether it is moral or not, but I do know that I'd rather pay more for gas with a dealer who prices it honestly from the start than I would from one who pops the price based on what he discovers the market will bear after he has set his normal profit percentage. The retail dealer has to charge replacement cost, so no truck is necessary for a price hike. Took a long time for me to understand that point. The previous poster's choice to choose a dealer who doesn't profiteer is a nice example of what some economists don't like to admit: that there are non-economic considerations in economic decisions. Remember, we lowly consumers have power too: it's just more diffuse and harder to marshal. Carpool, buy domestically, walk; just don't buy your usual amount of gas. Suggest the same thing to your friends, coworkers, and anonymous correspondents on Usenet. (Full disclosu The family is about to do the summer vacation thang in a Jeep Cherokee. Whoops.) The reason you took a long time to understand "replacement cost" as a charge from dealers is because it is utter bull****. I bought a briefcase the other day, and paid for it based on what the seller had paid, not on what the seller is GOING to pay for his next bit of stock. Once he gets the new stock in, the then raises prices. Carpooling? Uh, I live in the country and work at home. Not effective. Actually, not possible. I use about one tank of gas every 2-1/2 weeks in my pick-up (Chev S10 gutless wonder). We probably use more in the car, but that's a 30 MPG Stratus (Dodge's ultimate POS). We time our town visits so when I need something, my wife does shopping, etc. Believe me, that's a royal PITA but probably will become more and more necessary as time goes on. I also don't zip into town for one item anymore, unless it is essential to the success of an article that is deadlined. I may be back on a small motorcycle soon, though I quit riding when I moved down here 28 years ago. If there is still a 250cc road bike out there, or even off road, I might be able to up my 25-30 MPG vehicles to 55-60 MPG. I don't always need even a small pick up bed for my treks into town, nor do I need the extra space in a car to go to, for example, the library. Yeah, all that said, I'll be heading to the truck terminals in Roanoke (about 35-40 miles away, call it 85 miles round trip) in a buddy's over-sized Ford pick-up to grab two jointers for an article. My truck won't handle the size or the weight, so I buy him at least 20 bucks worth of gas for that one trip. Probably $30 just to be nice. |
"Patriarch" wrote in message . 97.136... Buy a good chain saw and a used pickup truck. Oh, and a lathe. The price is worth not skidding wood on my place, that's why I'm still buying, just a bit cheesed at the gouging. This hauler brings, at my request, two or three cords of large stuff as lathe fodder. Paid the whole ten cords and more in turnings just last Saturday. |
"Charlie Self" wrote in message oups.com... The reason you took a long time to understand "replacement cost" as a charge from dealers is because it is utter bull****. I bought a briefcase the other day, and paid for it based on what the seller had paid, not on what the seller is GOING to pay for his next bit of stock. Once he gets the new stock in, the then raises prices. You charge people for work in your shop based on purchase price of the lumber, then go out and get replacement stock? You're a saint. |
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... I'd like to know who is making the money. Dealer? Distributor? Refiner? Arabs? All of the above? Even at today's prices, the average state/federal bite of $0.38 per gallon makes government the big winner when you fill up. |
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl. Lies, damned lies, and statistics again. Profit margins? Low-cost Chinese goods distort the CPI, then you go ahead and do it again. |
George wrote: "Charlie Self" wrote in message oups.com... The reason you took a long time to understand "replacement cost" as a charge from dealers is because it is utter bull****. I bought a briefcase the other day, and paid for it based on what the seller had paid, not on what the seller is GOING to pay for his next bit of stock. Once he gets the new stock in, the then raises prices. You charge people for work in your shop based on purchase price of the lumber, then go out and get replacement stock? You're a saint. You are not exactly making a statement there. I charge for what I am using, or plan to use, based on current costs. I cannot charge for replacement costs, because I don't know if they'll be higher or lower...obviously, with gasoline in recent years, higher is the trend, but that's not true of everything, yet. The higher cost of transport and our totally asinine transport system has to catch up, sooner or later, with sooner being my bet. But the fact remains, if I drive around town to see what others are charging for what I already have on hand before pricing something to a customer, then I'm putting myself in a strange position. I KNOW what I paid for it. I KNOW how much I need. I do NOT know what replacement cost will be. As an incidental point, I didn't notice a damned one of these dealers knocking off a nickel or a dime when they could tell that tanker load prices were dropping a few months ago. Nope. They waited until the new product was in the tank before dropping the price. Funny thing. I figure it is a similar deal with raising prices. If it isn't, it's no wonder no one respects businesspeople anymore. |
"Charlie Self" wrote in message oups.com... If it isn't, it's no wonder no one respects businesspeople anymore. Business is about making money. What you want goes under the name of charity. |
George wrote: "Charlie Self" wrote in message oups.com... If it isn't, it's no wonder no one respects businesspeople anymore. Business is about making money. What you want goes under the name of charity. And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. |
Charlie Self wrote:
George wrote: "Charlie Self" wrote in message oups.com... If it isn't, it's no wonder no one respects businesspeople anymore. Business is about making money. What you want goes under the name of charity. And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. |
Charlie Self wrote:
.... The rationales are almost excessively simple. In Europe, it's political greed (taxes) added to high oil prices; ... Actually, for the most part it's more into they're getting into serious social engineering much earlier than we... |
Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. |
Charlie Self wrote:
Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. Actually, if you were to investigate, you would probably find that each of those increases at the local station did reflect costs his distributor had just passed on to him...I know for a fact that's what happens here as I know two local re-distributors/retailer wells as well as knowing what we do on the driveway pumps at the local farmers' coop of which I am a member... Here in this last week we got hit w/ two increases in one afternoon plust another the next day... |
Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. Actually, if you were to investigate, you would probably find that each of those increases at the local station did reflect costs his distributor had just passed on to him...I know for a fact that's what happens here as I know two local re-distributors/retailer wells as well as knowing what we do on the driveway pumps at the local farmers' coop of which I am a member... Here in this last week we got hit w/ two increases in one afternoon plust another the next day... Possible, though I'm inclined to doubt it. This stuff comes COD to the dealer (country store). He pays as soon as it's pumped into his tanks. That's it. No more to that transaction. |
"George" George@least wrote in message
... "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl. Lies, damned lies, and statistics again. Profit margins? Low-cost Chinese goods distort the CPI, then you go ahead and do it again. If you'd like to give us the real figures, I'm all ears. todd |
Charlie Self wrote:
Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. Actually, if you were to investigate, you would probably find that each of those increases at the local station did reflect costs his distributor had just passed on to him...I know for a fact that's what happens here as I know two local re-distributors/retailer wells as well as knowing what we do on the driveway pumps at the local farmers' coop of which I am a member... Here in this last week we got hit w/ two increases in one afternoon plust another the next day... Possible, though I'm inclined to doubt it. This stuff comes COD to the dealer (country store). He pays as soon as it's pumped into his tanks. That's it. No more to that transaction. I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... |
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... "George" George@least wrote in message ... "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl. Lies, damned lies, and statistics again. Profit margins? Low-cost Chinese goods distort the CPI, then you go ahead and do it again. If you'd like to give us the real figures, I'm all ears. The cost was X dollars per barrel. Dollar was a dollar. Adjustments are a fantasy based on conditions which did not pertain at the time. Of course, liars do figure ... when the outcome suits 'em. Now the cost of a barrel of oil adjusted for 1897 dollars was ... meaningless! .. |
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... Not to mention his station has a contract with the distributor, even if it's not actually franchised from them, which specifies his rights and obligations. |
George wrote:
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... Not to mention his station has a contract with the distributor, even if it's not actually franchised from them, which specifies his rights and obligations. And those are written w/ a whole lot more "obligations" than "rights", for sure... :) |
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:37:34 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. Actually, if you were to investigate, you would probably find that each of those increases at the local station did reflect costs his distributor had just passed on to him...I know for a fact that's what happens here as I know two local re-distributors/retailer wells as well as knowing what we do on the driveway pumps at the local farmers' coop of which I am a member... Here in this last week we got hit w/ two increases in one afternoon plust another the next day... Possible, though I'm inclined to doubt it. This stuff comes COD to the dealer (country store). He pays as soon as it's pumped into his tanks. That's it. No more to that transaction. I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... I think Charlie is trying to say you should sell things based on what you paid for them, not based on what you are going to have to pay to replace them in the normal course of business. I disagree. If the wholesale price of gas goes up $.05, it is immaterial how much I paid for the gas currently in my storage tank, the real question is how much do I have to pay to replace whatever I sell to you at the pump. The difference between my current replacement cost and my current pump price is my real profit. Yeah, I wrote that as if I owned a station. I don't, but the concept is the same whether we talk gas, bread or houses. As an exagerated example, If you bought a house 20 years ago the price you would want to sell it for would have nothing to do with the price you paid, but a lot to do with what it is going to cost you to replace that house so that you still have a place to live. Dave Hall |
"George" George@least wrote in message
... Lies, damned lies, and statistics again. Profit margins? Low-cost Chinese goods distort the CPI, then you go ahead and do it again. If you'd like to give us the real figures, I'm all ears. The cost was X dollars per barrel. Dollar was a dollar. Adjustments are a fantasy based on conditions which did not pertain at the time. Of course, liars do figure ... when the outcome suits 'em. Now the cost of a barrel of oil adjusted for 1897 dollars was ... meaningless! Is the comparison perfect? I'm sure it isn't. But to say that the adjustments for inflation are meaningless is a lie. So, you don't believe any of the reports regarding a decline in "real" wages compared to 10 or 20 years ago either, right? todd |
George wrote: "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... Not to mention his station has a contract with the distributor, even if it's not actually franchised from them, which specifies his rights and obligations. That shows you don't know a thing about how country stores operate. These guys will not accept contracts from any one distributor. |
Dave Hall wrote: On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:37:34 -0500, Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: Charlie Self wrote: And that attitude is what is wrong with business today. I've been a small businessman since at least '68, and to date I haven't found it necessary to screw my clients out of the last dime in order to get by. I'm sorta' w/ ya' on this, Charlie, altho I understand the other as well... Unfortunately, it's the distributors who control the pump prices (essentially, local markups are pretty competitive in most places) and they seem to be, as you note, very prompt in the up direction, not so prompt in the other... I don't have data on what the refiners are doing (in the relatively few cases where they and the major distributors aren't the same)...I suspect the independents are following the big boys because they'd get crushed if they didn't. What I was writing of was at the local station level. Go in Friday and see a truck filling the tanks, and an 8 cent increase on the pump. Go by Sunday, and see another 8 cent increase, and another on Wednesday, but the next truck doesn't arrive until that Friday. That's neither distributor nor refiner. Just neighbor screwing neighbor out of a few bucks. Actually, if you were to investigate, you would probably find that each of those increases at the local station did reflect costs his distributor had just passed on to him...I know for a fact that's what happens here as I know two local re-distributors/retailer wells as well as knowing what we do on the driveway pumps at the local farmers' coop of which I am a member... Here in this last week we got hit w/ two increases in one afternoon plust another the next day... Possible, though I'm inclined to doubt it. This stuff comes COD to the dealer (country store). He pays as soon as it's pumped into his tanks. That's it. No more to that transaction. I'm still expecting he's getting notices regularly from his distributor and simply posting them at that time as are most other retailers... I think Charlie is trying to say you should sell things based on what you paid for them, not based on what you are going to have to pay to replace them in the normal course of business. I disagree. If the wholesale price of gas goes up $.05, it is immaterial how much I paid for the gas currently in my storage tank, the real question is how much do I have to pay to replace whatever I sell to you at the pump. The difference between my current replacement cost and my current pump price is my real profit. Yeah, I wrote that as if I owned a station. I don't, but the concept is the same whether we talk gas, bread or houses. As an exagerated example, If you bought a house 20 years ago the price you would want to sell it for would have nothing to do with the price you paid, but a lot to do with what it is going to cost you to replace that house so that you still have a place to live. Dave Hall Specious analogy. If you sell houses for a living, you might make the comparison and call it valid. But to say you live in a house and have to get more for it than you paid so you can pay replacement costs is not any kind of analogical situation. You and George are a business shark's dream. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:54 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter