HI Folks,

I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!

Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?

Thanks!
Tony

take the fence off for cross cuts.

TonyP wrote:
take both hands of the board,


that's one thing you did wrong. If the saw is running, it's going to
vibrate and the wood will want to walk around. Murphy's law says it's
going to walk directly into the spinning blade, then go for a short flight.

Learn to turn the saw off with one hand, preferably without looking, so
you can keep both eyes on the blade.

-j

"TonyP" wrote in message
oups.com...
HI Folks,

I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!

Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?
Yes, you used to fence during cross cutting the board. Eventually, as you
found, a board will bind on the blade and come flying off. Consider
yourself lucky if you didn't get a serious injury.
This event happens on all saws.
Jim

Thanks!
Tony

TonyP wrote:
HI Folks,

I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!

Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?

Thanks!
Tony

Use a sled or miter gauge for cross cuts, Tony; NEVER use the fence!

Dave

Jim wrote:

"TonyP" wrote in message
oups.com...
....
Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!

Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?
Yes, you used to fence during cross cutting the board. Eventually, as you
found, a board will bind on the blade and come flying off. Consider
yourself lucky if you didn't get a serious injury.
This event happens on all saws.

I agree he did something wrong, I just disagree on what (unless he
actually did do what you think). In that case he did two things
wrong...

It's not absolutely clear he used the fence to guide the crosscut, but
if he did, I'll agree that's mistake number one.

The mistake I see is leaving the material on the saw table w/ the blade
running w/o having it secured.

To OP, in my opinion trying to turn the saw off at the earliest possible
instant isn't a necessary action. My recommendation is to complete the
cut ensuring the cutoff piece is well past the blade using a push stick
if necessary to avoid getting close to the blade and pull the primary
piece away from the blade. Then you can go ahead and turn the saw off
at leisure knowing there's no loose piece waiting to get flung at you.

I don't know the arrangement of the on/off switch on this saw but a nice
feature is to have a large "panic button" push switch in a location
where it can easily be hit w/ a knee or thigh (w/o, obviously, going
through contortions which would cause a loss of balance, etc.).

bridger wrote:

take the fence off for cross cuts.

That's overkill...just set it back a ways to get clearance.

Also don't leave loose pieces laying on the table while the saw is
running...

Thanks folks.

Yup I screwed up and used the fence for the crosscut. The problm I
have is there's so little table leading in that I can't use the miter
guage. I guess I'll have to make a sled or just pony up for a new saw!


Thx again.

It is good practice to remove cut-offs from the table top as you cut them.
Put them on your bench or at very least on the opposite side of the fence
(with fence well away from blade as others have mentioned).

I developed this habit after a slightly worse accident than you describe.
Years ago I cut off several small spacers allowing them to accumulate near
the back of the table. I turned the saw off and as I walked away I noticed
one still on the table. I stupidly reached over the blade and guess what -
it was still moving.

Hamburgered fingertip and new respect.

RonB

"TonyP" wrote in news:1123783254.014580.144680
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

Nothing wrong with that saw...



Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!


Were you using both the miter gauge *and* fence in the crosscut? That's
always a No-No. Never trap the cutoff portion of the wood between the
blade and fence. Slide the fence way off to one side, or construct a
"short-fence/stop-block".

"Hands on the board" - using two hands might actually lead you to tilting
the piece into the blade. Does for some, doesn't for others. And as for
"hands" - you *do* have push sticks, right???

Reaching for the off-switch: consider making yourself a knee activated
off switch. Most woodworkers figure out a way to craft one for their saws
for that rare occasion when you need to kill the power without letting
go.

Getting whacked - remember to try and find a place to stand that keeps
you out of the line of fire without compromising your balance or safety.

Finally - make a crosscut sled or panel cutting sled for crosscuts,
you'll be very glad you did!

Did I do something wrong???

Maybe. It sounds like somehow the peice came in contact with the
spinning blade. Either you moved it there or it vibrated there and became
a projectile.

Is my blade getting dull?

Yes... Every time you use it, it dulls a little!
I doubt that this had anything to do with your kickback.

TonyP wrote:
Thanks folks.

Yup I screwed up and used the fence for the crosscut. The problm I
have is there's so little table leading in that I can't use the miter
guage. I guess I'll have to make a sled or just pony up for a new saw!





or both G

make a sled right away. it's a good exercise and will make a big
difference in what the saw will do.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

It's not absolutely clear he used the fence to guide the crosscut, but
if he did, I'll agree that's mistake number one.
I interpreted his post to mean that he used the fence to guide the crosscut,
but I might be mistaken.

The mistake I see is leaving the material on the saw table w/ the blade
running w/o having it secured.
Yes, this is a serious mistake which I overlooked.
Jim

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:39:30 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

a nice
feature is to have a large "panic button" push switch in a location
where it can easily be hit w/ a knee or thigh

I don't like to think of this as a "panic button", but rather as a
convenient knee switch for everyday use.

I have a proper magnetic contactor on my saw, so I can very easily add
stop switches (just wire them up in series). I have one on each side of
it, with knee paddles. I very rarely turn it off with my hand - much
easier to use a knee and leave both hands free for hold-down.

TonyP wrote:
HI Folks,
=20
I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.
=20
This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.
=20
Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,=

turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade. So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board, step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!
=20
Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?
=20
Thanks!
Tony
=20


I'll say it a little differently than other people. Planning... Get your =

self a book on the use of the table saw. Read the safety instructions -- =

at least twice. But other people gave great advice -- so absorb it and=20
use the safety information that works for you!

Assume you are going to do something wrong -- every time you use a power =

tool. Then figure out how you will get out of the problem -- then do=20
that stuff first...

i.e. -- assume the cut goes wrong and you need a piece of wood handy to=20
reach over and trip the switch etc. Assume that you will need to power=20
off in a hurry -- so position yourself close to the switch. Make sure=20
that you have a clear work area in case you have to knock something out=20
of the way quickly. etc. (Then of course you would have had only one=20
thing on the saw top... unless you know how to use a fence with a little =

block of wood to use it as a stop gauge.)

Paranoia is healthy when working with power tools.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that "they" _aren't_ out to=20
get you. :-)


I actually use the leather apron all the time -- and use the face mask=20
if an off-cut is small. I assume that it will fly off -- then I try to=20
be "out of the line of fire".

Think safety -- live long and make much sawdust.


--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

Jim wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

It's not absolutely clear he used the fence to guide the crosscut, but
if he did, I'll agree that's mistake number one.
I interpreted his post to mean that he used the fence to guide the crosscut,
but I might be mistaken.

Unfortunately, he later confirmed he did that no-no too, and I was the
one making the wrong assumption...

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:39:30 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

a nice
feature is to have a large "panic button" push switch in a location
where it can easily be hit w/ a knee or thigh

I don't like to think of this as a "panic button", but rather as a
convenient knee switch for everyday use.

I have a proper magnetic contactor on my saw, so I can very easily add
stop switches (just wire them up in series). I have one on each side of
it, with knee paddles. I very rarely turn it off with my hand - much
easier to use a knee and leave both hands free for hold-down.

I use it that way, too...just a figure of speech, perhaps poorly chosen
for the current thread.

TonyP wrote:

HI Folks,

I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.

THAT's when you have to really pay attention. It's a modified
version of ' "It's awfully quiet out there. Too quiet." - he says
as, in the darkness, the Apache creeps up on him from the rear,
knife in hand and eyes fixed - on his neck.

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

Oh yeah - just add a few more horsepower and a full kerf blade
to make things safer . . .

Anyways, I've made a habit of cutting and leaving the board on tbe saw,
turning off the saw then pulling the would off. This morning I had a
board 15 inches long. I made a cross cut to remove 3 inches. The
fence was on the left side of the blade.

Not sure if you're talking about the miter fence or the rip
fence. If it was the rip fence - and you were using it to
set the off cut length you were asking for trouble. The cut
off would have no place to go if anything goes wrong - except
up and into the rear teeth and from there only the gods
know where it'll head. The Flip 'N Fly "kickback" is the
most unpredictable but being to the left of the blade is
not the safest place to be on that one.

So, I make the cut and take
both hands of the board,

Wrong-o, Wrong-o, Wrong-o. First pull the wood
AWAY from the blade, hold it with one hand and
turn off the saw. Letting go of anything up against
or close to carbide teeth spinning at 5000+ rpms
just isn't prudent.

step to the left a bit to turn off the saw
and the damn 12 inch piece comes flying off the table and cracks me in
the forearm!

I'm betting that some part of the cut off end of
the board made contact with a rear tooth - the
one coming UP and out of the table. It in turn
probably lifted it up into a tooth or two that
was less vertical, pulling the board up onto
the teeth that are heading towards the front
of the table.

Did I do something wrong??? Is my blade getting dull?

When I do something like this I just assume it
was the loose nut in front of the machine - me.

Perhaps some info of what is doing what and what
you can do to minimize IT doing something TO YOU
is in order. If you understand "why" you can
minimize the "WHAT!?" that precedes the "DAMN!"
or worse yet, getting to know the folks at the
nearest emergency room.

So please at least have a look at this stuff.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KickBack1.html

Woodworking is fun - if you do it safely.

charlie b

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
bridger wrote:

take the fence off for cross cuts.

That's overkill...just set it back a ways to get clearance.

The clearance should be at LEAST the hypotenuse of the triangle formed if
the board was to shift.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
bridger wrote:

take the fence off for cross cuts.

That's overkill...just set it back a ways to get clearance.

The clearance should be at LEAST the hypotenuse of the triangle formed if
the board was to shift.

I suppose...never thought of it in that specific manner, however. I
just make sure the cutoff is cleared of the blade so isn't there to get
'pinched'...

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:21:58 -0500, Joe User wrote:

TonyP wrote:
take both hands of the board,


that's one thing you did wrong. If the saw is running, it's going to
vibrate and the wood will want to walk around. Murphy's law says it's
going to walk directly into the spinning blade, then go for a short flight.

Learn to turn the saw off with one hand, preferably without looking, so
you can keep both eyes on the blade.

-j

Good point, Joe... I missed the part about both hands off the Board...

With a 15" piece of stock I'm not letting go of the sucker until it's lying on
the bench or something.... then, if I'm not cutting something else, I'll use the
push stick to clear the piece I cut off and turn the saw off...

I know, it's overkill, but I think that having a healthy respect/fear is why
I've been playing with power tools for about 50 years still have all my body
parts, as old and creaky as they may be... YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

bridger wrote:
take the fence off for cross cuts.

Duane Bozarth wrote:

That's overkill...just set it back a ways to get clearance.


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
The clearance should be at LEAST the hypotenuse of the triangle formed if
the board was to shift.


Duane Bozarth wrote:
I suppose...never thought of it in that specific manner, however. I
just make sure the cutoff is cleared of the blade so isn't there to get
'pinched'...



or if you have a table saw with a small table, just take the fence off
G

bridger wrote:

bridger wrote:
take the fence off for cross cuts.

Duane Bozarth wrote:

That's overkill...just set it back a ways to get clearance.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
The clearance should be at LEAST the hypotenuse of the triangle formed if
the board was to shift.


Duane Bozarth wrote:
I suppose...never thought of it in that specific manner, however. I
just make sure the cutoff is cleared of the blade so isn't there to get
'pinched'...

or if you have a table saw with a small table, just take the fence off
G

Or, get a larger saw would be my preferred choice...

The first shop that I ever worked in that had a tablesaw (I'm a
machinist but in this shop I was making vacuum molds an router fixtures),
had a rule about the table saw. When you are done, crank the blade down
below the tabletop.

"RonB" wrote in message
news:N6OKe.6740$Pl1.5380@okepread02...
It is good practice to remove cut-offs from the table top as you cut them.
Put them on your bench or at very least on the opposite side of the fence
(with fence well away from blade as others have mentioned).

I developed this habit after a slightly worse accident than you describe.
Years ago I cut off several small spacers allowing them to accumulate near
the back of the table. I turned the saw off and as I walked away I
noticed
one still on the table. I stupidly reached over the blade and guess
what -
it was still moving.

Hamburgered fingertip and new respect.

RonB

TonyP wrote:
Thanks folks.

Yup I screwed up and used the fence for the crosscut. The problm I
have is there's so little table leading in that I can't use the miter
guage. I guess I'll have to make a sled or just pony up for a new saw!


With most saws you can do crosscuts while standing on the same
side of the blade as the switch.

Remove the fence or move it way back out of the way for crosscuts.
Do not use both fence and miter gague for crosscuts.

After cutting, remove the workpiece from the table and use a push
stick to push the cut-off off the table or at least away from
the blade.

As others have mentioned, a cross-cut sled is much better for
crosscutting than a miter gague.

--

FF

wrote in message
ups.com...

With most saws you can do crosscuts while standing on the same
side of the blade as the switch.

Remove the fence or move it way back out of the way for crosscuts.
Do not use both fence and miter gague for crosscuts.


I wouldn't rely on switch position to determine anything, though most seem
to be left of the blade for right-handers.

If your miter gage and what it's guiding the cross-cutting of can fit right
of the blade, you may use the fence as a stop for repetitive cuts. This if
the fence is not perfectly parallel, but clears a bit to the rear of the
blade. Just remember, the fence is a touch gage, not what you use for
guiding the piece through.

The standard for cuts made with operator and gage left of the blade is the
touch gage block mounted on the fence, but not extending past the beginning
of the blade area. Butt the squared end against, cut through, move the
cutoff right then through and up.

NB - don't tell those people who say that angling the fence to give
clearance past the cut invites disaster about the second method. It refutes
their contention, and can lead to loss of self-esteem.

TonyP wrote:
Thanks folks.

Yup I screwed up and used the fence for the crosscut. The problm I
have is there's so little table leading in that I can't use the miter
guage. I guess I'll have to make a sled or just pony up for a new saw!

My first saw was like that. Frustrating at times. When I got my Delta
contractor model, it made cross cutting wide boards much easier than I ever
imagined. If you are going to stick withy the hobby, start saving for the
better, larger, saw.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 04:17:43 GMT, "CW" wrote:

The first shop that I ever worked in that had a tablesaw (I'm a
machinist but in this shop I was making vacuum molds an router fixtures),
had a rule about the table saw. When you are done, crank the blade down
below the tabletop.

I do that on the shopsmith on the rare times that I use it for a saw... in that
case, it's crank the table up until the blade is below the table..
I mainly do it to protect the blade from me, not me from the blade, though..

Prevents me from laying something on the table "for a second" and dinging the
blade with it and messing up the blade..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:00:54 -0700, TonyP wrote:

HI Folks,

I'm a newbie at WW and I'm in the process of building Norm's Router
table. Everything is actually going together fairly well.

This morning I had my first accident. I must say I'm still a bit
intimidated by the tablesaw. It's a RYOBI BTS20. I know, I shoulda
bought better.

The tablesaw didn't make the mistake. You did.Pay attention.

That said, no matter how focused you try to be, eventually your attention
will wander.

Sometime ago I made a mistake that brought a finger into
contact with the spinning blade. Hamburger, but not amputation. But only
because it was a legthwise cut.

That is why I am going to make a suggestion that no one else did. I'm
going to suggest that you keep a clean rag handy where you only need one
hand to get to it. . On the day you need it, you'll know why. You'll also
know why you haven't time to tear a sterile package open.

Try to avoid using the saw when there is no one else to drive for
you.DAMHIKT.

Bill