I have to rebuild a table that has become loose at the joints/dowels. Not
sure what sort of glue was used previously but suspect it may have been hot
hide glue. What is the best way of treating the reassembly? Use hide glue
again? Clean up all parts and use modern glue? should I remove the dowels
that are NOT loose?
It is not a masterpiece table, and has been used for holding an overhead
projector which has been too much load for it and it has become 'wobbly. I
am going to not only reglue, but also add some reinforcing at the corners
etc. to make it better able to stand the load.
Peter.

"L. Peter Stacey" wrote in message
...
I have to rebuild a table that has become loose at the joints/dowels. Not
sure what sort of glue was used previously but suspect it may have been
hot
hide glue. What is the best way of treating the reassembly? Use hide glue
again? Clean up all parts and use modern glue? should I remove the dowels
that are NOT loose?
It is not a masterpiece table, and has been used for holding an overhead
projector which has been too much load for it and it has become 'wobbly. I
am going to not only reglue, but also add some reinforcing at the corners
etc. to make it better able to stand the load.
Peter.



I would disassemble the table as best you can and remove all old glue
possible with something like an old hacksaw blade .dowels that are still
tight leave them alone replace loose ones . reglue with a yellow glue such
as tightbond /elmers carpenters glue underpressure with clamps and leave for
24 hours....mjh

If you can clean it up and re-glue wood to wood then use yellow glue.
If the old glue is not easily removable then use epoxy.

I would remove all dowels and maybe ream the holes out to the next
larger sized dowel.

I think it was FWW magazine that had a whole article on re-gluing last
month. I could be wrong, I've read a few other rags lately too.

BW

After cleaning up joints, they probably will be loose so use an epoxy glue
to fill the space.

"Frank J. Vitale" wrote:

After cleaning up joints, they probably will be loose so use an epoxy glue
to fill the space.

Do not use an epoxy...it won't fill the space w/ an effective joint
that will hold and will make any future repair nearly impossible...

Frank J. Vitale wrote:
After cleaning up joints, they probably will be loose so use an epoxy glue
to fill the space.



You will get a much better bond with epoxy if you add some micro
balloons to create a thickened mixture, say about like mayo.

A word of caution:

Microballoons turn the epoxy mixture white unless you are using VERY
expensive ($300/lb) pheonilic balloons, so don't use an excessive amount
to form a joint unless you want a miserable clean up job.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
You will get a much better bond with epoxy if you add some micro
balloons to create a thickened mixture, say about like mayo.

A word of caution:

Microballoons turn the epoxy mixture white unless you are using VERY
expensive ($300/lb) pheonilic balloons, so don't use an excessive amount
to form a joint unless you want a miserable clean up job.

Microballoons don't really add strength; they're mostly used to create a
low-density, easy to shape/sand mixture for fairing, where strength is not
important. There are much better fillers if you're after gap filling and
bonding strength.

See http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/p...ler_select.htm

Roy Smith wrote:

Microballoons don't really add strength; they're mostly used to create a
low-density, easy to shape/sand mixture for fairing, where strength is not
important. There are much better fillers if you're after gap filling and
bonding strength.


Cab-O-Sil, Aer-O-Sil, etc (colloidal silica) thicken the resin, help
with the vertical hang time, and definitely make sanding a bitch when cured.

I have found they do little for me when trying to glue things together.

OTOH, micro balloons tend to form a very gooey glop of adhesive.

As far as redoing a furniture joint is concerned, a flying red horse at
1,000 ft won't be able to see the difference between either approach.

LEW

Lew Hodgett says...

You will get a much better bond with epoxy if you add some micro
balloons to create a thickened mixture, say about like mayo.

A word of caution:

Microballoons turn the epoxy mixture white unless you are using VERY
expensive ($300/lb) pheonilic balloons, so don't use an excessive amount
to form a joint unless you want a miserable clean up job.

Lew

Use wood flour or very fine sawdust. Cheap or free.

Duane Bozarth wrote:


Do not use an epoxy...it won't fill the space w/ an effective joint
that will hold and will make any future repair nearly impossible...

That's why micro balloons are needed to thicken the epoxy; however,
straight epoxy will still blow ther sox of any other adhesive you try to
use.


Lew

Hax Planx wrote:

Use wood flour or very fine sawdust. Cheap or free.

Pure garbage IMHO.

Why waste good epoxy when good fillers are so inexpensive?

Lew

Lew Hodgett says...

Pure garbage IMHO.

Why waste good epoxy when good fillers are so inexpensive?

Lew

Whatever. System 3 sells wood flour for the very purpose of thickening
their epoxy. There is a detailed pamphlet that goes with their epoxy
that gives an overview of a variety of fillers. They all have their
uses according to the manufacturer. The wood flour gives it a color
about the same as hide glue. It didn't waste the epoxy when I used it,
whatever you meant by that. The things I glued with it are holding just
fine.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
k.net...
Hax Planx wrote:

Use wood flour or very fine sawdust. Cheap or free.

Pure garbage IMHO.

Why waste good epoxy when good fillers are so inexpensive?

The one time I needed to thicken epoxy I used fine sawdust and it worked
just fine.
I don't know where you buy epoxy, but the amount needed to reglue a table
doesn't cost very much.

Hax Planx wrote:


Whatever. System 3 sells wood flour for the very purpose of thickening
their epoxy.

Wood flour provides a color match, but it does nothing to add strength.

As the old saying goes, "different horses for different courses".

Lew

toller wrote:


The one time I needed to thicken epoxy I used fine sawdust and it worked
just fine.
I don't know where you buy epoxy, but the amount needed to reglue a table
doesn't cost very much.

Sawdust will thicken the epoxy, but does nothing to add strength.

Epoxy is so much better as an adhesive than other glues available for
furniture that it probably doesn't make any difference.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
. net...
Frank J. Vitale wrote:
After cleaning up joints, they probably will be loose so use an epoxy
glue
to fill the space.



You will get a much better bond with epoxy if you add some micro
balloons to create a thickened mixture, say about like mayo.

A word of caution:

Microballoons turn the epoxy mixture white unless you are using VERY
expensive ($300/lb) pheonilic balloons, so don't use an excessive amount
to form a joint unless you want a miserable clean up job.

Lew

Sorry Lew but after repairing many more chairs than I care to count I agree
with Duane. If epoxy is so good why bother with dowels at all...mjh

mike hide wrote:


Sorry Lew but after repairing many more chairs than I care to count I agree
with Duane. If epoxy is so good why bother with dowels at all...mjh

Not sure I understand that one.

The epoxy serves as an adhesive while the dowel serves as a structrual
member, not exactly the same thing.

Now if you want to make fiberglass dowels held in place with
epoxy.............. Naw, don't go there.

Lew

I've used a heat-gun an a lot of wiggling to get loose by inseparable hide glue
joints apart. The remaining hide glue can be cleaned up with hot vinegar. Use
this to clean up the entire joint before re-gluing.

If the dowels are loose then a thin shaving, made with a plane, can be wrapped
and glued around the dowel to make it fit tighter.

Since its not a "masterpiece" yellow glue can be used to reassemble.

If the dowels are loose then a thin shaving, made with a plane, can be
wrapped and glued around the dowel to make it fit tighter.

Since its not a "masterpiece" yellow glue can be used to reassemble.

IMHO a better option is to size the dowels ends with the glue you intend to
use and then wrap 'em with cotton or silk to the dia required; much like the
old TOC bamboo fishing rods. It was a widely used method here in Oz at the
turn of the century, I've no idea why it's not more common today. :\

--
- Andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see the light! Damn, another bowl ruined.

Andy McArdle wrote:
IMHO a better option is to size the dowels ends with the glue you intend to
use and then wrap 'em with cotton or silk to the dia required; much like the
old TOC bamboo fishing rods. It was a widely used method here in Oz at the
turn of the century, I've no idea why it's not more common today. :\

Never heard of that one here in the US. My suggestions come from a magazine
article I read may years ago. I actually used both techniques, the vinegar and
dowel thickening, on a certainly "no masterpiece" table that was supposedly made
by my great grandfather.

At a show about 8yrs ago I saw a guy who was recommending that you just clamp up
the loose joint, cross-drill 1/16th holes through the dowels and inject epoxy. I
guess that is literally liquid nails.

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:55:51 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Microballoons turn the epoxy mixture white unless you are using VERY
expensive ($300/lb) pheonilic balloons,

But that's an insane quantity ! They're microballoons - the whole point
is they're ultralight.

My tub of phenolic balloons (West System) cost me a "few bucks", I use
them for almost all my filled epoxy, and I'm nowhere near using the tub
up yet. For a boat with faired mouldings then maybe they're expensive,
but for thickening glue then I spent more on shoeleather going to the
shop then I did on buying them.

Andy Dingley wrote:


But that's an insane quantity ! They're microballoons - the whole point
is they're ultralight.

My tub of phenolic balloons (West System) cost me a "few bucks", I use
them for almost all my filled epoxy, and I'm nowhere near using the tub
up yet. For a boat with faired mouldings then maybe they're expensive,
but for thickening glue then I spent more on shoeleather going to the
shop then I did on buying them.


There is ultralight and then there is really ultralightG.

The phenolic balloons I referred to were the really ultra light kind
used on race boats for the Americas Cup for instance.

Those people are completely anal rentitive about weight.

I use the low cost stuff (7-1/2 lbs/ft3), but you are right, the average
woodworker won't use enough microballoons in a year to get concerned
about it.

Lew

Thank you all for your input to my question.
I did not expect so much response or such spirited participation. Pleased to
see it stayed friendly. :-)
Thanks again.

"L. Peter Stacey" wrote in message
...
I have to rebuild a table that has become loose at the joints/dowels. Not
sure what sort of glue was used previously but suspect it may have been
hot
hide glue. What is the best way of treating the reassembly? Use hide glue
again? Clean up all parts and use modern glue? should I remove the dowels
that are NOT loose?
SNIP
Peter.

IMHO a better option is to size the dowels ends with the glue you
intend to use and then wrap 'em with cotton or silk to the dia
required; much like the old TOC bamboo fishing rods. It was a widely
used method here in Oz at the turn of the century, I've no idea why
it's not more common today. :\

Never heard of that one here in the US. My suggestions come from a

I've noticed similar in a couple of my posts; methods that are (or were)
common here are almost unknown in the states. Oddly, in other forums UK
posters recognise what I'm on about. Must be that we got more convicts than
you.

At least it gives a different perspective on some jobs.

magazine article I read may years ago. I actually used both techniques,
the vinegar and dowel thickening, on a certainly "no masterpiece" table
that was supposedly made by my great grandfather.

At a show about 8yrs ago I saw a guy who was recommending that you just
clamp up the loose joint, cross-drill 1/16th holes through the dowels
and inject epoxy. I guess that is literally liquid nails.

The vinegar's a new one to me, although it's something I guess I should've
thought of myself. I've used shavings myself when I haven't had thread
handy, but I find it a tad awkward to hold in place. For the life of me I
don't understand anyone wanting to fill gaps with glue, not even for a wonky
non-masterpiece. When I fix something I expect it to /stay/ fixed! G
--
- Andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I set off every stud sensor in the hardware store.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:51:17 +1000, "Andy McArdle"
wrote:

I've noticed similar in a couple of my posts; methods that are (or were)
common here are almost unknown in the states. Oddly, in other forums UK
posters recognise what I'm on about. Must be that we got more convicts than
you.

nah, just a different class of convicts. you got petty working class
criminals, we got religious nutjobs. guess which group brought
woodworking skills with them?