I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Plug looks like:
\ /
|


2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Thanks,

Dave

wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Plug looks like:
\ /
|

2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?


1. Yes although the matching plug is somewhat of a pita on a smaller
device there's nothing unsafe. Remember, the circuit protection is to
protect the fixed wiring, not the device plugged into it.

Also, how are you going to get from the location in the kitchen to the
shop? Would seem potentially simpler to run a 220 circuit in the shop
where I would presume the distribution panel is in the basement, anyway.

2. I run everything I can on 220 just to cut down the higher amperage a
110 draws. The actual difference in efficiency is small...

The kitchen is directly above the workshop and the outlet is mounted to
a joist below the kitchen (of ceiling of the shop) directly above the
table saw. There was a hole in the kitchen floor behind the stove
where the stove plug was passed through. I used this hole to run the
gas line through. I did this some time ago. I could never figure out
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).

Dave

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).
Electric dryers and stoves are cheaper than gas.
Jim

In article , "Jim" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).
Electric dryers and stoves are cheaper than gas.

Cheaper to buy, yes, but usually more expensive to operate.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

wrote:

The kitchen is directly above the workshop and the outlet is mounted to
a joist below the kitchen (of ceiling of the shop) directly above the
table saw. There was a hole in the kitchen floor behind the stove
where the stove plug was passed through. I used this hole to run the
gas line through. I did this some time ago. I could never figure out
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).

I'd then make a pigtail to plug into the existing outlet and make it
long enough to reach a convenient location to plug in the saw on the
other end with a 20A connector.

"I'd make a pigtail to plug into the existing outlet..."

I wouldn't. I would just pay an electrician to take the cover off the
outlet plate, remove the outlet, then extend conduit to install a new
box and outlet with the correct plug right next to the saw.

In article ,
"Jim" wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).
Electric dryers and stoves are cheaper than gas.
Jim

That must be why in the 3 years that I converted from an electric range
to natural gas, that I paid for the new gas range range with the savings.
It may be different in some areas, but here? Gas costs about 25% per BTU
of that in electrical equivalent.

In article .com,
"woodworker88" wrote:

"I'd make a pigtail to plug into the existing outlet..."

I wouldn't. I would just pay an electrician to take the cover off the
outlet plate, remove the outlet, then extend conduit to install a new
box and outlet with the correct plug right next to the saw.

That's the right way.

woodworker88 wrote:

"I'd make a pigtail to plug into the existing outlet..."

I wouldn't. I would just pay an electrician to take the cover off the
outlet plate, remove the outlet, then extend conduit to install a new
box and outlet with the correct plug right next to the saw.

That would work, but doesn't need an electrician necessarily, either...

Primaryy reason I wouldn't bother is there is no reason to have the
heavy wire required for the 40A circuit to go to a second box and it
wouldn't be code to put extend less than a 40A outlet on that circuit as
a fixed component. Of course, could go back and replace the 40A breaker
w/ smaller, but that adds even more unnecessary expense...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Plug looks like:
\ /
|


2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Thanks,

Dave


2. You will definitely notice the difference. My 746 struggled to cut 6/4
hardwood on 110V and would occasionally pop a breaker. On 220, with the same
blade, it is like a different saw. Faster start-up, and no sign of bog
unless I feed too fast.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article , "Jim"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).
Electric dryers and stoves are cheaper than gas.

Cheaper to buy, yes, but usually more expensive to operate.
The people who build the houses are more interested in the cost to buy
rather than the cost to operate. As an aside, I have never owned an
electric dryer because they cost more to operate.
Jim

On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:09:51 GMT, Jim wrote:

The people who build the houses are more interested in the cost to buy
rather than the cost to operate. As an aside, I have never owned an
electric dryer because they cost more to operate.

Not if you have time-of-use electricity billing and use it during
off-peak times...

In article , Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:09:51 GMT, Jim wrote:

The people who build the houses are more interested in the cost to buy
rather than the cost to operate. As an aside, I have never owned an
electric dryer because they cost more to operate.

Not if you have time-of-use electricity billing and use it during
off-peak times...

But not everyone is able to schedule doing his laundry at 2:30am...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Plug looks like:
\ /
|


2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Whatever you do, if toller posts any sort of recommendation, run,
don't walk away from it.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

Whatever you do, if toller posts any sort of recommendation, run,
don't walk away from it.

--
LRod

Listen to LRod; he knows everything.

On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector. And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.


Plug looks like:
\ /
|


2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Probably.


Thanks,

Dave

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:18:31 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector. And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

Uh, how do you figure that? While the stove *may* have used the third
wire as a neutral (under an NEC exception for many years), the circuit
and outlet have no way of knowing what's plugged into it, and the
third wire is connected to the ground bus back at the panel. Even if
it's tied to the "neutral" bus, unless the panel is a sub-panel, the
neutral and ground busses are tied together anyway.

No, with no stove (or dryer) connected, that third wire is definitely
an equipment ground.

Or were you just funnin' us?

2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Probably.

Yeah, especially if the 120V line he's plugged into is the least bit
wimpy.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

In article , wrote:

Whatever you do, if toller posts any sort of recommendation, run,
don't walk away from it.

You're being too hard on him, LRod. He's actually answered a couple of
electrical questions correctly in a.h.r. the last few days... by waiting to
see what I, or Tom Horne, or a few others, respond, and then posting a "me
too".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , Wes Stewart wrote:
On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

It already *has* an "appropriately sized breaker" (presuming the stove
installation was Code-compliant). The breaker is there to protect the wiring
and the receptacle, not the device that's plugged in.

It may not be possible to install "the appropriate connector", as the wiring
for a Code-compliant 40A circuit is certainly at least #8, possibly as large
as #6 - and the "appropriate" 20- or 30-amp receptacle is unlikely to be rated
for use with wires that large.

And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

It's a neutral in a 240V electric range circuit only because electric ranges
contain both 120V and 240V equipment, and the 120V control circuits need the
neutral. If you connect a pure 240V load such as a 240V motor to this circuit,
there is no neutral, and the third wire is the equipment ground.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Wes Stewart wrote:
On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

It already *has* an "appropriately sized breaker" (presuming the stove
installation was Code-compliant). The breaker is there to protect the wiring
and the receptacle, not the device that's plugged in.

It may not be possible to install "the appropriate connector", as the wiring
for a Code-compliant 40A circuit is certainly at least #8, possibly as large
as #6 - and the "appropriate" 20- or 30-amp receptacle is unlikely to be rated
for use with wires that large.
....

That's why I suggested the pigtail solution --

If it were actually my shop, I'd probably have already run dedicated
circuits for the stationary tools rather than trying to use this one,
but OP's situation may not be convenient.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:14:36 +0100, LRod wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:18:31 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector. And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

Uh, how do you figure that? While the stove *may* have used the third
wire as a neutral (under an NEC exception for many years), the circuit
and outlet have no way of knowing what's plugged into it, and the
third wire is connected to the ground bus back at the panel. Even if
it's tied to the "neutral" bus, unless the panel is a sub-panel, the
neutral and ground busses are tied together anyway.

I know that the neutral and grounding conductor are tied together at
the service entrance. That *does not* mean that a grounding conductor
and neutral are at the same potential anywhere else.

This was true even in a clothes dryer or electric range, where lights,
motors, timers, etc ran from one phase to neutral. Admittedly these
load currents are small, however, in the strictest sense, there is a
voltage drop in the neutral between the load and the service panel.
Therefore, a non-current carrying grounding conductor and the neutral
have different potentials at the load end.


No, with no stove (or dryer) connected, that third wire is definitely
an equipment ground.

Unless there is some other load on the same circuit, something that
you do not know.

By your reasoning, we can just eliminate grounding conductors; after
all, the neutral is grounded at the service entrance. Tie it to the
frame of your table saw and sit back and hope that nothing goes wrong.

If the National Fire Protection Association thought that what you say
is true, I doubt that they would have made the NEC change that now
requires four wires, two phases, neutral and grounding conductor.



Or were you just funnin' us?

Not at all.

2. Is it worth converting the saw to 220?

Probably.

Yeah, especially if the 120V line he's plugged into is the least bit
wimpy.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 17:59:44 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:14:36 +0100, LRod wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:18:31 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, wrote:

I have a Dewalt 746 table saw that can be converted to 220. In the
kitchen above my workshop there is an outlet that was for the electric
stove that used to be there (now gas). Two questions:

1. If the outlet is 40 amps, can a table saw that uses much less amps
be run off of it?

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector. And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

Uh, how do you figure that? While the stove *may* have used the third
wire as a neutral (under an NEC exception for many years), the circuit
and outlet have no way of knowing what's plugged into it, and the
third wire is connected to the ground bus back at the panel. Even if
it's tied to the "neutral" bus, unless the panel is a sub-panel, the
neutral and ground busses are tied together anyway.

I know that the neutral and grounding conductor are tied together at
the service entrance. That *does not* mean that a grounding conductor
and neutral are at the same potential anywhere else.

This was true even in a clothes dryer or electric range, where lights,
motors, timers, etc ran from one phase to neutral. Admittedly these
load currents are small, however, in the strictest sense, there is a
voltage drop in the neutral between the load and the service panel.
Therefore, a non-current carrying grounding conductor and the neutral
have different potentials at the load end.

Perhaps I could have been clearer. Once the stove/dryer is
disconnected none of what you say applies. Moreover, the OP said the
stove in use was gas, therefore there was nothing connected.
Consequently there are no 120V load currents in that line. Until there
is a load on that circuit that uses the third wire as a neutral it is
as proper an equipment ground as you could wish.

Unless the panel is a subpanel. Then you need to make sure the ground
wire is attached to the ground bus. You are aware that some
jurisdictions have the main breaker at the meter and that what most of
us would consider the main load center (breaker panel) in the
basement/utility closet is actually a subpanel.

No, with no stove (or dryer) connected, that third wire is definitely
an equipment ground.

Unless there is some other load on the same circuit, something that
you do not know.

Since a stove or dryer is on its own breaker, and since in this case
the stove is not connected, we DO know there is no other load on the
circuit.

By your reasoning, we can just eliminate grounding conductors; after
all, the neutral is grounded at the service entrance. Tie it to the
frame of your table saw and sit back and hope that nothing goes wrong.

That's not at all what I was saying or even implying. There was no
stove connected. Therefore, there is no current flowing in the
grounding wire (it is NOT a neutral).

If the National Fire Protection Association thought that what you say
is true, I doubt that they would have made the NEC change that now
requires four wires, two phases, neutral and grounding conductor.

If you want to read that into my post, enjoy yourself.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:17:06 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:

Whatever you do, if toller posts any sort of recommendation, run,
don't walk away from it.

You're being too hard on him, LRod. He's actually answered a couple of
electrical questions correctly in a.h.r. the last few days... by waiting to
see what I, or Tom Horne, or a few others, respond, and then posting a "me
too".

See below. We may have to add a name to the list.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:29:41 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

[snip]

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

It already *has* an "appropriately sized breaker" (presuming the stove
installation was Code-compliant). The breaker is there to protect the wiring
and the receptacle, not the device that's plugged in.

I know that, Doug.

It may not be possible to install "the appropriate connector", as the wiring
for a Code-compliant 40A circuit is certainly at least #8, possibly as large
as #6 - and the "appropriate" 20- or 30-amp receptacle is unlikely to be rated
for use with wires that large.

That's why they invented wire nuts. While the detachable cord doesn't
need to meet the same wire size requirements as the fixed wiring, I
personally would be concerned with a fault that fails to trip the
breaker until there is damage to the pigtail. But that's just me
operating with 33+ years of experience in the aerospace/tactical
missile business where fail-save considerations and Murhpy's law rule.
[g]

And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

It's a neutral in a 240V electric range circuit only because electric ranges
contain both 120V and 240V equipment, and the 120V control circuits need the
neutral. If you connect a pure 240V load such as a 240V motor to this circuit,
there is no neutral, and the third wire is the equipment ground.

Uh huh. Then there's the guys who add an outlet to the saw circuit
for a work light and to run the dust collector.

Regards,

Wes

Robatoy wrote in news:design-C19D38.14545824052005
@news.bellglobal.com:

That must be why in the 3 years that I converted from an electric range
to natural gas, that I paid for the new gas range range with the savings.
It may be different in some areas, but here? Gas costs about 25% per BTU
of that in electrical equivalent.


Interesting. I was of the opinion that you were practically in the spray
from Niagra Falls, and hence, massive hydorelectric facilities.

Next thing, you'll be telling me you have no igloos and sled dogs. ;-)

Patriarch

You're being too hard on him, LRod. He's actually answered a couple of
electrical questions correctly in a.h.r. the last few days... by waiting
to
see what I, or Tom Horne, or a few others, respond, and then posting a "me
too".

I assume this is from Doug, the alpha jerk...

I can't see what you say because I block your posts.
And if I happened to agree with anything you said, there would be no reason
to post anything at all.

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

You shouldn't say that! A bunch of morons will tell you that the breaker is
there to protect the supply wiring and not the item plugged into it; and
since the breaker is appropriate to the supply wiring, there is no reason to
change the breaker.

Why they wouldn't also want to protect the item plugged into it, when they
can do so for the price of a breaker, is totally beyond me. Admittedly it
is not a question of code requirements; just common sense.

Incidently, the third conductor on the cables to my dryer and stove is an
"uninsulated neutral". Looks like a ground to me; but I guess it works the
same regardless of what you call it.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 03:12:56 GMT, "toller" wrote:

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

You shouldn't say that! A bunch of morons will tell you that the breaker is
there to protect the supply wiring and not the item plugged into it; and
since the breaker is appropriate to the supply wiring, there is no reason to
change the breaker.

Everyone's out of step but you, eh? You just keep living down to your
billing.

Why they wouldn't also want to protect the item plugged into it, when they
can do so for the price of a breaker, is totally beyond me. Admittedly it
is not a question of code requirements; just common sense.

Where do you find the 1/10 A breakers to protect your light bulbs?
Where do you get the ¼ A breakers to protect your clock radio? Where
did you find a panel that would accommodate all of those little
breakers (must be a half a hundred or more in an average house)?
I assume from your reasoning above that you would want to protect all
your low current devices plugged into your massive 15A and 20A
circuits, "for the price of a breaker."

Incidently, the third conductor on the cables to my dryer and stove is an
"uninsulated neutral". Looks like a ground to me; but I guess it works the
same regardless of what you call it.

And meets code (by virtue of grandfathering) but wouldn't in a new
installation since the last few years.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

Duane,

Thanks for the response. So, by pigtail you mean us a male plug that
matches the 40A outlet, connect a sufficient gauge wire, the connect a 240v
20A female at the other end?

Dave


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
wrote:

The kitchen is directly above the workshop and the outlet is mounted to
a joist below the kitchen (of ceiling of the shop) directly above the
table saw. There was a hole in the kitchen floor behind the stove
where the stove plug was passed through. I used this hole to run the
gas line through. I did this some time ago. I could never figure out
why, with natural gas run to the house, the dryer and stover were
electric (water heater was gas).

I'd then make a pigtail to plug into the existing outlet and make it
long enough to reach a convenient location to plug in the saw on the
other end with a 20A connector.

In article , Wes Stewart wrote:

I know that the neutral and grounding conductor are tied together at
the service entrance. That *does not* mean that a grounding conductor
and neutral are at the same potential anywhere else.

However, it *does* mean that the conductor that had previously been used as
the neutral for the electric stove *can* be used as the equipment ground for
the table saw.

This was true even in a clothes dryer or electric range, where lights,
motors, timers, etc ran from one phase to neutral. Admittedly these
load currents are small, however, in the strictest sense, there is a
voltage drop in the neutral between the load and the service panel.
Therefore, a non-current carrying grounding conductor and the neutral
have different potentials at the load end.

That's true - but none of it matters anymore after that dual 120/240V load
(the stove) had been disconnected. He's talking about connecting a pure 240V
load to it. He needs only three conductors for that load, not four, and he has
all three available. What's the problem?

By your reasoning, we can just eliminate grounding conductors; after
all, the neutral is grounded at the service entrance. Tie it to the
frame of your table saw and sit back and hope that nothing goes wrong.

Sorry, Wes, your reality check just bounced. That's a complete non-sequitur.
As I said above, he needs three wires, he has three wires, no problem.

If the National Fire Protection Association thought that what you say
is true, I doubt that they would have made the NEC change that now
requires four wires, two phases, neutral and grounding conductor.

For devices that use both 120V and 240V, yes. For devices that use *only* 240V
(and a table saw falls into this category) and thus do not need a neutral, no,
the NEC does *not* require four wires.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "toller" wrote:
You're being too hard on him, LRod. He's actually answered a couple of
electrical questions correctly in a.h.r. the last few days... by waiting
to
see what I, or Tom Horne, or a few others, respond, and then posting a "me
too".

I assume this is from Doug, the alpha jerk...

I can't see what you say because I block your posts.

Toller, I *know* that's not true. It's obvious you have been reading at least
some of my posts, because (a) you've been parroting my electrical advice in
a.h.r. and (b) you replied to one of them a few days ago.

And if I happened to agree with anything you said, there would be no reason
to post anything at all.

I get worried when you agree with anything I say - I immediately check to see
if I made a mistake.

I certainly agree that when it comes to electrical issues, there is no reason
for you to post anything at all. You don't know what you're talking about; the
only way you *ever* give correct electrical advice is when you're repeating
what someone else has said. When you strike out on your own, you're dangerous.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

(Doug Miller) writes:


[...]


For devices that use both 120V and 240V, yes. For devices that use
*only* 240V (and a table saw falls into this category) and thus do
not need a neutral, no,the NEC does *not* require four wires.

Does the coil of the switch on the saw operate between the two phase
leads or between ground and one of the phases? (I assume a saw will
have a magnetic starter...)
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

In article , Wes Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:29:41 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

[snip]

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

It already *has* an "appropriately sized breaker" (presuming the stove
installation was Code-compliant). The breaker is there to protect the wiring
and the receptacle, not the device that's plugged in.

I know that, Doug.

Then why did you suggest replacing it?

[snip]
And remember, that third wire *is not* an
equipment ground, but the neutral.

It's a neutral in a 240V electric range circuit only because electric ranges
contain both 120V and 240V equipment, and the 120V control circuits need the
neutral. If you connect a pure 240V load such as a 240V motor to this circuit,
there is no neutral, and the third wire is the equipment ground.

Uh huh. Then there's the guys who add an outlet to the saw circuit
for a work light and to run the dust collector.

That would be a problem, *if* it happened. But the problem is with the
installation of that outlet, not with the wiring of the circuit for the table
saw.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "toller" wrote:

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the
appropriate connector.

You shouldn't say that! A bunch of morons will tell you that the breaker is
there to protect the supply wiring and not the item plugged into it; and
since the breaker is appropriate to the supply wiring, there is no reason to
change the breaker.

That's true, whether you know it or not.

And you say you're not reading my posts...

Why they wouldn't also want to protect the item plugged into it, when they
can do so for the price of a breaker, is totally beyond me. Admittedly it
is not a question of code requirements; just common sense.

I suppose, then, that you have your alarm clock plugged into a circuit that's
protected by a 1-amp fuse?

Incidently, the third conductor on the cables to my dryer and stove is an
"uninsulated neutral". Looks like a ground to me; but I guess it works the
same regardless of what you call it.

More evidence of your unsuitability for giving electrical advice.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

You gotta love the electrical question threads. Running buddies LRod
and Miller get into a bitch slapping-ego fest-I gotta have the last
word flame exchange with Toller where insults fly like the sparks from
a wiring job that followed their collective advice. A consistent theme
is that one or the other is giving dangerous advice, and usually ends
with someone swearing to plonk the other forever. Usually when the fur
stops flying someone like Wes drops in to correct everyone with some
solid and sage advice, leaving the OP wondering who to believe and
wondering how all this debate got started in the first place "geeze,
all I asked wuz if I could run my saw from the old dryer wiring."

I love the wreck.

Mutt

In article 36,
Patriarch wrote:

[snipperified]

Interesting. I was of the opinion that you were practically in the spray
from Niagra Falls, and hence, massive hydorelectric facilities.

Next thing, you'll be telling me you have no igloos and sled dogs. ;-)

Would you believe no hockey?

Hell yes, lots of igloos and dogs... if you go 1000 miles straight north.

I am practically at the same latitude as San Francisco and Rome, Italy,
give or take. Nobody makes igloo jokes about them, do they?
Or are you one of those guys who sees a weather map and notices it says
70 degrees in Detroit MI and 20 degrees in Windsor, ON (just across the
river) on the same day?????
Ya think you lose 50 degrees as you come across the bridge into Canada?

hehehehe

Niagra rhymes with Viagra, coinkidink? I think not.
The juice coming out of Niagra is barely enough to keep the boom-boxes
going during a week-day party in Toronto's 'hoods.
We have even more free natural gas than hydro power. Hydro power is
managed by a company which employs 10,000 highly overpaid cleaners and
15,000 underqualified and overpaid management types.
The gas company has a pipe to deal with, not a nuclear power station
that started off as a 3 billion dollar project and had a slight overrun
of 11 billion on top of that. (My oldest daughter is an operator there,
btw.)
That kinda **** happens when you give the CEO's job to a political
appointee.

In article , Juergen Hannappel wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes:


[...]


For devices that use both 120V and 240V, yes. For devices that use
*only* 240V (and a table saw falls into this category) and thus do
not need a neutral, no,the NEC does *not* require four wires.

Does the coil of the switch on the saw operate between the two phase
leads or between ground and one of the phases? (I assume a saw will
have a magnetic starter...)

What difference does it make? The saw's power cord has only three wires: two
hots, and equipment ground.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article .com, "Pig" wrote:
You gotta love the electrical question threads. Running buddies LRod
and Miller get into a bitch slapping-ego fest-I gotta have the last
word flame exchange with Toller where insults fly like the sparks from
a wiring job that followed their collective advice. A consistent theme
is that one or the other is giving dangerous advice, and usually ends
with someone swearing to plonk the other forever. Usually when the fur
stops flying someone like Wes drops in to correct everyone with some
solid and sage advice, leaving the OP wondering who to believe and
wondering how all this debate got started in the first place "geeze,
all I asked wuz if I could run my saw from the old dryer wiring."

ROTFL... unfortunately, Wes doesn't have a very good handle on it either, but
at least his errors fall on the side of excessive caution. Toller, OTOH, is
actively dangerous when he gives out electrical "advice", which is why LRod
and I keep slapping him. In alt.home.repair, just in the last month or so, he
told one poster to install his range hood with the equipment ground connected
to the circuit neutral, advised another to connect a multiwire branch circuit
to the two poles of a duplex 120V breaker, and claimed that it's nearly
impossible to receive a fatal shock from 60Hz 120VAC.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "toller" wrote:

I can't see what you say because I block your posts.

Liar.

And if I happened to agree with anything you said, there would be no reason
to post anything at all.

Tell you what, Toller: you stop posting stupid, incorrect, dangerous answers
to electrical questions... and I'll stop calling your answers stupid,
incorrect, and dangerous.

Deal?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?