Hello.
(I posted this in rec.crafts.woodturning by accident so I'm sorry
if your one of the people that is a duplicate for. Same questions
different punchlines.)

Let me start with an introduction. My name is Roland J Rankin Jr. I
prefer Rol (Pronounced Roll as in roll a ball down the hill, my daddy is
Roland, and nobody feels comfortable calling a grown man Junior. ;-) .
I've tried to lurk for the past few days, except I was lurking the wrong
group, but now I'm all in the question asking mood so here I go anyway.

I happen to be fortunate enough that my house is located in a new
neighborhood in the middle of no where and the tree that fell down last
winter happened to be one of the 180+ year old trees left standing from
10 years ago when the land that was part of a forest, became a
neighborhood. (only about 18" diameter trees but really tight rings,
until 12 rings back then they are fat bloated compared to the rest.
turns out with all it's neighbors gone the ground is too wet for it and
rotted out the roots from under it.) got 15 or so more just like it, so
I aim to do something worthwhile with the lumber. I think they all red
oaks and with one white oak in the backyard. (Sap wood is white, heart
wood has an almost cedar red hue to it, except it isn't porous e.g. able
to blow bubbles in a pitcher of water through the grain like I attempted
to demonstrate to my wife. guess I learned that wrong or It's some other
type of wood I don't know.)

Anyway I'm just starting to seriously pursue hand woodworking, I've got
allot of manual labor experience behind me, but I'm really new to fine
wood working. I'm not looking to sell anything, or to create studies or
any such non-sense I have job already, I'm only doing this for me.

I don't expect any one person to know all the answers so just chime in
any parts you feel comfortable answering or redirecting. ( I feel like a
kid who just had to interrupt the adults at the big table, trying to get
it all out at once so as to make the least trouble as possible.. haha)
*well I did but now after lurking and posting in the wrong group I feel
like a kid who has just farted when important company is over*

And jumping in with the Questions without any further foreplay.

1) Is there a FAQ and where can I find it?

2) Is this the Proper group for I think it's called "galoot"
woodworking? Correct me if I am wrong please. I don't use any
electricity, or fuels for my wood working only treadle machines I can
build myself, or quality hand tools I'm to able make or obtain. The only
electricity I use is for the darn Fluorescent lights that drive me crazy
with their Buzzing and inability to cast a proper shadow.

** I've already been directed towards **
The Galoots are on the OldTools mailing list. Take a look at
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html for instructions on how
to join The Porch, as it's known, and other good stuff. John Gunterman's
site at http://www.shavings.net/ will give you a bit more of the flavor,
plus some useful reference material.
*** in the other group thought I would save some one the trouble of
reposting it if they were going to bring em up. ***


3) Has anyone built a solid oak Hand Plane that would care to lend advice?

I'm told that after I mortise out the hole for the plane iron and
breaker blade, I'm supposed to stop the mouth up with putty and fill the
cavity with linseed oil until it exudes from both ends. ( I also read
that I'm not supposed to finish the mortise through until after I've
done this step.)
A) I guess the latter way is for the worker that expects to retrue the
tool after this step?

I'm then supposed to let it dry out for a week to a month depending
whether it's size (Jack plane vs smoothing plane),and repeat the
process, before I consider using the plane. or True-ing the plan before
completing the through mortise to form the mouth)

Afterwards, I'm supposed to reoil (like one would oil a hand saw to
prevent rust, except using linseed oil instead of using household oil)
the plane with oil after every use (if infrequent) and as needed (if
frequently used)
B) Anything besides Linseed work? Should the Linseed be Raw, Boiled,
or Double boiled (chemically boiled)?


Now, My thinking is. That the linseed oil is basically acting as a
stabilizer, It's getting into all the pores and kinda turning into a
half dry plastic, never really wet but never completely dry. Reducing
the planes sensitivity to local humidity changes. And the reason it's
done with with Oil instead of a proper finish it because the bottom of
the plane is constantly being worn (sanded) against the work piece.
So using a proper finish would simply cause you to spend all your time
retrue-ing the plane and refinishing the bottom? Since you are using a
wooden plan and the mouth opens up the more of the plane face you
remove, you don't want to retrue a plane more than you have too.

4) Have I got the guts of that right? Is this still the preferred
method? Anyone have any Advice they care to pitch in? Or a better method?

A) Can anyone confirm that for best results the plane should be cut
square to the tree with heart facing side facing up and the outward side
facing down? (e.g. Flattest rings riding across the work)

B) while we are talking about Planes. Any one have any experience with
Hock Tools? (http://www.hocktools.com/) I was thinking of getting my
blades (if not my breaker irons) there. Was hoping someone could give an
affirmative voice that they really are what their web-site makes them
out to be? I really like to start getting some use out of my tools
before I have to take up too much black smith learning.

*** I've already got one reply from the other group of..
However, I can tell you that Ron Hock's blades are about as good as they
get.
****


5) Seasoning. Wood. If I go out into my yard and chop down a tree. (I've
already done this part, well nature did but same difference)
A) How log should I let it lay before I begin to use it? 6 months of
curing with the bark on, and anything I cut off of it right now still
checks and warps like crazy.

I'm reading all kinds of conflicting information.
The Farmer way says to fell the tree in June, (didn't happen) and leave
it laying as is, until the leaves fall off on their own (also didn't
happen). (about a month) then cut into boards, to finish drying (another
month or two) then plane the boards true to finished dimensions.

The Old Timey way I read to do it, is to fell the tree cut into length I
can manage alone, and let it lay for 2 or 3 years, ( some say seal the
ends with beeswax some say don't) then only cut it as needed.

Assuming they both work the only advantage I can see to the second
method would be that less wood is used as scrap.

B) With the End splits now being more common (more cuts) are you
really saving any wood for all the extra time?

C) I know that the more I split ( cut to width) the wood (versus cut
the wood to length) the faster it will dry but the more prone it will be
warping and the less prone it will be to splitting? Did I learn that right?


D) Is there anything I should be asking but might not know enough to
ask about regarding Seasoning wood?


6) Is there a better method of measuring wood humidity (baring electric
devices) than pressing your lower lip to the end grain and gauge-ing
your senses to the cold sensation (humidity)?



FYI is a valid email address. I do check it
daily but I don't expect replies to be there unless they are of
extremely personal nature. (I'm working on training thunderbird to fight
spam better and won't mind the newsgroup email address farming on that
account.)


Well I think that is long winded enough, most people would have a
reasonable understanding that I'm of a talkative lot. So that should
serve well as my side of the introduction.

Roland J Rankin Jr.

P.S and for those of you that read. rec.crafts.woodturning sorry about
the farting bit.

Roland J Rankin Jr wrote:

[big snip]

1) Is there a FAQ and where can I find it?

There's one at: http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/index.html

But I'm not sure if it's been updated anytime recently.

2) Is this the Proper group for I think it's called "galoot"
woodworking? Correct me if I am wrong please. I don't use any
electricity, or fuels for my wood working only treadle machines I can
build myself, or quality hand tools I'm to able make or obtain. The only
electricity I use is for the darn Fluorescent lights that drive me crazy
with their Buzzing and inability to cast a proper shadow.

I'm a 99% neander woodworker myself, and the wreck has a few of us
lurking around. But it tends more towards general woodworking
discussion, with a majority of it being about power tools (and sausages).

** I've already been directed towards **
The Galoots are on the OldTools mailing list. Take a look at
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html for instructions on how
to join The Porch, as it's known, and other good stuff. John Gunterman's
site at http://www.shavings.net/ will give you a bit more of the flavor,
plus some useful reference material.
*** in the other group thought I would save some one the trouble of
reposting it if they were going to bring em up. ***

Oldtools is probably *the* place for galoot interaction, though the
WoodCentral Handtool forum is another good place:
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/handtools.shtml

3) Has anyone built a solid oak Hand Plane that would care to lend advice?

I've made them from cocobolo and beech, but never oak. I know Steve
Knight uses oak on some of his planes.

I'm told that after I mortise out the hole for the plane iron and
breaker blade, I'm supposed to stop the mouth up with putty and fill the
cavity with linseed oil until it exudes from both ends. ( I also read
that I'm not supposed to finish the mortise through until after I've
done this step.)
A) I guess the latter way is for the worker that expects to retrue the
tool after this step?

I'm then supposed to let it dry out for a week to a month depending
whether it's size (Jack plane vs smoothing plane),and repeat the
process, before I consider using the plane. or True-ing the plan before
completing the through mortise to form the mouth)

Afterwards, I'm supposed to reoil (like one would oil a hand saw to
prevent rust, except using linseed oil instead of using household oil)
the plane with oil after every use (if infrequent) and as needed (if
frequently used)
B) Anything besides Linseed work? Should the Linseed be Raw, Boiled,
or Double boiled (chemically boiled)?

Raw linseed oil would just create a god-awful mess, IMHO.

Actually, BLO would too using the method you describe. Personally,
I just use Minwax "antique oil" finish. That was recommended to me by
Larry Williams of Clark & Williams, makers of superb traditional-style
wooden handplanes: http://www.planemaker.com

A) Can anyone confirm that for best results the plane should be cut
square to the tree with heart facing side facing up and the outward side
facing down? (e.g. Flattest rings riding across the work)

Here's Larry's take on it:
http://www.planemaker.com/articles/benchplane.html

B) while we are talking about Planes. Any one have any experience with
Hock Tools? (http://www.hocktools.com/) I was thinking of getting my
blades (if not my breaker irons) there. Was hoping someone could give an
affirmative voice that they really are what their web-site makes them
out to be?

Ron is the real deal. You can call his company and the odds are
he'll answer the phone. He'll be happy to talk to you and give advice
on what would fit your needs best. And his irons are outstanding.

Part of my routine when buying older planes is to immediately
replace the stock iron with a Hock. I've got Hocks in my old #60-1/2,
#4 and #7, plus his scraper blade in my #80 and two of his spokeshave
blades in my home-made shaves.

I recommend him highly.

5) Seasoning. Wood.

[snip]

I don't have a lot of experience with this, so others will be more
heplful. But, I did manage to get some mesquite from a tree that was
coming down. With mesquite, it pays to get the bark off as soon as
possible, as borers are a problem. I don't know how oak is in that regard.

I would advise sealing the ends with one of the commercial products
out there, or with a coat of very thick shellac.

For planemaking, cut some pieces overly-long, seal the ends and let
dry for a year per inch of thickness. (That's the "standard" rule for
air-drying.) When you do saw the wood, you'll want to get as close to
perfect quartersawn blanks as you can, discarding the pith. You'll lose
some wood to checking, but that's just a fact of life.

I'll leave it to others who are more knowledgeable to give you more
advice on drying.


Chuck Vance

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:19:39 -0400, the inscrutable Roland J Rankin Jr
spake:

Hello.
(I posted this in rec.crafts.woodturning by accident so I'm sorry
if your one of the people that is a duplicate for. Same questions
different punchlines.)

Let me start with an introduction. My name is Roland J Rankin Jr. I
prefer Rol (Pronounced Roll as in roll a ball down the hill, my daddy is

Howdy, Rol. Welcome to The Wreck.


Roland, and nobody feels comfortable calling a grown man Junior. ;-) .
I've tried to lurk for the past few days, except I was lurking the wrong
group, but now I'm all in the question asking mood so here I go anyway.

Ooh, this does not bode well!


I happen to be fortunate enough that my house is located in a new
neighborhood in the middle of no where and the tree that fell down last
winter happened to be one of the 180+ year old trees left standing from
10 years ago when the land that was part of a forest, became a
neighborhood. (only about 18" diameter trees but really tight rings,
until 12 rings back then they are fat bloated compared to the rest.
turns out with all it's neighbors gone the ground is too wet for it and
rotted out the roots from under it.) got 15 or so more just like it, so
I aim to do something worthwhile with the lumber. I think they all red
oaks and with one white oak in the backyard. (Sap wood is white, heart
wood has an almost cedar red hue to it, except it isn't porous e.g. able
to blow bubbles in a pitcher of water through the grain like I attempted
to demonstrate to my wife. guess I learned that wrong or It's some other
type of wood I don't know.)

Good luck with that. Your best bet is to have someone with a WoodMiser
(or other brand) bandsaw mill come in and cut it up for you, sticker
and stack it. Now build a kiln building around it to help drying it.


Anyway I'm just starting to seriously pursue hand woodworking, I've got
allot of manual labor experience behind me, but I'm really new to fine
wood working. I'm not looking to sell anything, or to create studies or
any such non-sense I have job already, I'm only doing this for me.

Get yer butt to a local library and check the 684 section. It's full
of woodworking books; thousands of dollars worth, most likely. Figure
out what you want to do and grab the books for that facet of
wooddorking.


I don't expect any one person to know all the answers so just chime in
any parts you feel comfortable answering or redirecting. ( I feel like a
kid who just had to interrupt the adults at the big table, trying to get
it all out at once so as to make the least trouble as possible.. haha)
*well I did but now after lurking and posting in the wrong group I feel
like a kid who has just farted when important company is over*

g


And jumping in with the Questions without any further foreplay.

1) Is there a FAQ and where can I find it?

JOAT compiled a FAQ of FAQs. Find it he
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/98b8b7a4bda8f435/a6eadf61d4e5c09e?q=group:rec.woodworking+insubject :faq&rnum=1&hl=en#a6eadf61d4e5c09e


2) Is this the Proper group for I think it's called "galoot"
woodworking? Correct me if I am wrong please. I don't use any
electricity, or fuels for my wood working only treadle machines I can
build myself, or quality hand tools I'm to able make or obtain. The only
electricity I use is for the darn Fluorescent lights that drive me crazy
with their Buzzing and inability to cast a proper shadow.

Yes, Galoot and Neanderthal are the terms for unplugged woodworkers.
Congrats on going with the Light side of the Force, Rol. Ackshully,
this is Wreck.Norm, but they (mostly) allow those of us who like and
use hand tools to share it with them.

Google is your friend. Google this newsgroup for "neanderthal" and
"galoot" for more specific info.


** I've already been directed towards **
The Galoots are on the OldTools mailing list. Take a look at
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html for instructions on how
to join The Porch, as it's known, and other good stuff. John Gunterman's
site at http://www.shavings.net/ will give you a bit more of the flavor,
plus some useful reference material.
*** in the other group thought I would save some one the trouble of
reposting it if they were going to bring em up. ***


3) Has anyone built a solid oak Hand Plane that would care to lend advice?

Entire books are written on the subject so I'll leave it to them.
(See tip #1)


Afterwards, I'm supposed to reoil (like one would oil a hand saw to
prevent rust, except using linseed oil instead of using household oil)
the plane with oil after every use (if infrequent) and as needed (if
frequently used)
B) Anything besides Linseed work? Should the Linseed be Raw, Boiled,
or Double boiled (chemically boiled)?

Waterlox is my favorite wood finish, and I see no reason why it
wouldn't be perfect for a wooden hand plane.


B) while we are talking about Planes. Any one have any experience with
Hock Tools? (http://www.hocktools.com/) I was thinking of getting my
blades (if not my breaker irons) there. Was hoping someone could give an
affirmative voice that they really are what their web-site makes them
out to be? I really like to start getting some use out of my tools
before I have to take up too much black smith learning.

I have one Hock iron and love it. I'd trust iron from him and Steve
Knight www.knight-toolworks.com . (Disclaimer: I've worked on and off
with Steve for his website and own a stable full of his planes. Buy
one of them to see how they're built.


5) Seasoning. Wood. If I go out into my yard and chop down a tree. (I've
already done this part, well nature did but same difference)
A) How log should I let it lay before I begin to use it? 6 months of
curing with the bark on, and anything I cut off of it right now still
checks and warps like crazy.

The basics: Fell it, bark it, and slice it in the same day. The longer
it sits with the bark on, the more chance insects have to gain entry.
Sticker and stack it as it is cut. Allow 1 year per inch of thickness
for air drying before use. This link might help speed things up:
http://www.google.com/search?q=homemade+drying+kiln


D) Is there anything I should be asking but might not know enough to
ask about regarding Seasoning wood?

Yes, but I don't know it, either.


6) Is there a better method of measuring wood humidity (baring electric
devices) than pressing your lower lip to the end grain and gauge-ing
your senses to the cold sensation (humidity)?

Yes. Use an electronic wood moisture meter. $50+


FYI is a valid email address. I do check it
daily but I don't expect replies to be there unless they are of
extremely personal nature. (I'm working on training thunderbird to fight
spam better and won't mind the newsgroup email address farming on that
account.)

You can be sure they will. sigh


Well I think that is long winded enough, most people would have a
reasonable understanding that I'm of a talkative lot. So that should
serve well as my side of the introduction.

Again, welcome to the Wreck.

--
Don't forget the 7 P's:
Proper Prior Planning Prevents ****-Poor Performance
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Conan The Librarian wrote:
Roland J Rankin Jr wrote:

snip

Oldtools is probably *the* place for galoot interaction, though the
WoodCentral Handtool forum is another good place:
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/handtools.shtml

Subscribed to oldtools and lurking.
Added the other to my favorites for later browsing.

snip

A) Can anyone confirm that for best results the plane should be cut
square to the tree with heart facing side facing up and the outward
side facing down? (e.g. Flattest rings riding across the work)


Here's Larry's take on it:
http://www.planemaker.com/articles/benchplane.html

I read it, first time it felt I like was being lectured instead of educated.
second time, felt like it was a collection of tips, but it referenced
allot of data I have no clue what he's talking about. For example
(We prefer the 18th Century style longer planes because the height of
their bodies is less and it limits this effect.)
Myself don't own any 18th century style planes, and don't really expect
to run into one in the near future so most of the knowledge of the
example is lost.

Third time. Figure it's probably meant for advanced workers. People who
have an understanding of the bodies of information that he's confirming
or refuting. For now mostly going to have to be scoured for confirmation
of tips. (like sealing the ends of wood during seasoning, but not
entirely useful for it's intended purpose to me. Perhaps if the author
had included a reference section, I'd be able to cypher it better.



B) while we are talking about Planes. Any one have any experience
with Hock Tools? (http://www.hocktools.com/) I was thinking of
Snip
I recommend him highly.

Thank yah, feel better about ordering now.

snip

5) Seasoning. Wood.
[snip]


I don't have a lot of experience with this, so others will be more
heplful. But, I did manage to get some mesquite from a tree that was
coming down. With mesquite, it pays to get the bark off as soon as
possible, as borers are a problem. I don't know how oak is in that regard.

I would advise sealing the ends with one of the commercial products
out there, or with a coat of very thick shellac.

For planemaking, cut some pieces overly-long, seal the ends and let
dry for a year per inch of thickness. (That's the "standard" rule for
air-drying.) When you do saw the wood, you'll want to get as close to
perfect quartersawn blanks as you can, discarding the pith. You'll lose
some wood to checking, but that's just a fact of life.

I'll leave it to others who are more knowledgeable to give you more
advice on drying.


Chuck Vance

Thanks, Those were tips I am able to understand.

Roland J Rankin Jr.

Larry Jaques wrote:
snip

Howdy, Rol. Welcome to The Wreck.

Thank yah for having me.

snip

Good luck with that. Your best bet is to have someone with a WoodMiser
(or other brand) bandsaw mill come in and cut it up for you, sticker
and stack it. Now build a kiln building around it to help drying it.

I would but that would be against the rules.. snicker
However, what I can do is go have me a gander at one of those WoodMiser
bandsaw mills. Then see if I'm able to replicate with a treadle version.

snip

Get yer butt to a local library and check the 684 section. It's full
of woodworking books; thousands of dollars worth, most likely. Figure
out what you want to do and grab the books for that facet of
wooddorking.

Been there, they start with.
step 1.Read owners manual.
step 2. Put on safety goggles.
step 3. Plug in tool

Also tried new and used book stores.
(lucked up and got a copy of The complete Woodworker edited by Bernard
E. Jones, and a couple of the Roy Underhill Books.)
But most of the books deal with with power tools or how to use a
particular power tool to craft a particular set of items. not really my
facet, but I keep looking and reading just the same)

Big Snip

Afterwards, I'm supposed to reoil (like one would oil a hand saw to
prevent rust, except using linseed oil instead of using household oil)
the plane with oil after every use (if infrequent) and as needed (if
frequently used)
B) Anything besides Linseed work? Should the Linseed be Raw, Boiled,
or Double boiled (chemically boiled)?


Waterlox is my favorite wood finish, and I see no reason why it
wouldn't be perfect for a wooden hand plane.


Hmmm, but how well does it stand up to being rubbed. The face of the
plane is being rubbed daily against wood. The sides or the planes are
being constantly rubbed in a shooting board application for end grain.

Makes me worry about how well the wood is able to resist the temptation
of humidity if the finish is constantly being rubbed thin. Which would
lower the finishes ability to lessen the woods tendency to inhale and
exhale (and expand and contract).

snip

I have one Hock iron and love it. I'd trust iron from him and Steve
Knight www.knight-toolworks.com . (Disclaimer: I've worked on and off
with Steve for his website and own a stable full of his planes. Buy
one of them to see how they're built.


Those are pretty planes and really cheap for a quality tool. However
buying one of those to use, would feel wrong to me. Sure it's easier to
go to the store and pick out a work bench, but until you've been in your
shop and used a make-do work bench for your type of work. You really
don't know what type of workbench you really need. After you have an
understanding of what type of work your doing and what's a comfortable
height, work area, how many tools your typically need at hand, your
really not able to pick out a bench that's suited exactly to your needs.
And when you really do know all that, you can only pick one off the
shelf to make-do. You end up having to make your own, to suit your use
and needs. I feel the same way about planes. I've already got an old #4
Bailey plane. That's my Make-do plane. Using it tells me allot about
what I'd rather have in a plane. I'm sure that the first wooden one I
build will tell me allot more.

Now I can totally understand, people not feeling the same way. I can
also understand buying one of those planes out of respect for the
craftsmanship. For me personally, I can not see buying one to use, in my
journey to form a partnership with my work, my tools, and the wood.
Would feel like setting out on a journey of enlightenment, and borrowing
some one else's map.




5) Seasoning. Wood. If I go out into my yard and chop down a tree. (I've
already done this part, well nature did but same difference)
A) How log should I let it lay before I begin to use it? 6 months of
curing with the bark on, and anything I cut off of it right now still
checks and warps like crazy.


The basics: Fell it, bark it, and slice it in the same day. The longer
it sits with the bark on, the more chance insects have to gain entry.
Sticker and stack it as it is cut. Allow 1 year per inch of thickness
for air drying before use. This link might help speed things up:
http://www.google.com/search?q=homemade+drying+kiln


Oh I happen to have a hugish second building (made of metal) that I've
got no use for (came with the house) I think it would be perfect for
this application. Was already using it to dry wood, but hadn't thought
of converting it into a solar kiln.


snip

6) Is there a better method of measuring wood humidity (baring electric
devices) than pressing your lower lip to the end grain and gauge-ing
your senses to the cold sensation (humidity)?


Yes. Use an electronic wood moisture meter. $50+


Thought of that, but then I thought of all the old timey wood workers
that got along just fine without them. If I can learn their tricks I
could rely on myself instead of a gaget.

snip


Again, welcome to the Wreck.


Thanks for the warm welcome, lots of useful tidbits you've thrown my way!

Roland J Rankin Jr.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:38:28 -0400, the inscrutable Roland J Rankin Jr
spake:

I would but that would be against the rules.. snicker
However, what I can do is go have me a gander at one of those WoodMiser
bandsaw mills. Then see if I'm able to replicate with a treadle version.

10:1 you'll lose the log if you try to do it ALL by hand, but it's
your call.


Also tried new and used book stores.
(lucked up and got a copy of The complete Woodworker edited by Bernard
E. Jones, and a couple of the Roy Underhill Books.)
But most of the books deal with with power tools or how to use a
particular power tool to craft a particular set of items. not really my
facet, but I keep looking and reading just the same)

Look for "Old Ways of Working Wood" by Alex Bealer, "Restoring,
Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools" by Michael Dunbar,
and Garrett Hack's duet "Hand Tool Classics" which contains "The
Handplane Book" and "Classic Hand Tools". And don't forget "The
Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. Get the rest of Roy's books as well.
They're all wonderful.

www.LeeValley.com has a few goodies, too, reprints from the 19th
century and just beyond. "Projects For Woodwork Training" is a
good oldie from 1917 which includes basket weaving, something a
-lot- of us around here need more than occasionally.



Hmmm, but how well does it stand up to being rubbed. The face of the
plane is being rubbed daily against wood. The sides or the planes are
being constantly rubbed in a shooting board application for end grain.

The sole of the plane really isn't supposed to have finish on it
because it would wear off in about a dozen strokes. Use a dauber of
camellia oil for that. It works as well on steel as it does on wood.
Use lignum vitae for soles and rubbing blocks on a shooting (chute)
plane. It's really TOUGH.


Makes me worry about how well the wood is able to resist the temptation
of humidity if the finish is constantly being rubbed thin. Which would
lower the finishes ability to lessen the woods tendency to inhale and
exhale (and expand and contract).

Ask Steve how he feels about that. He's made 1,000+ planes now.


Those are pretty planes and really cheap for a quality tool. However
buying one of those to use, would feel wrong to me. Sure it's easier to
go to the store and pick out a work bench, but until you've been in your
shop and used a make-do work bench for your type of work. You really
don't know what type of workbench you really need. After you have an
understanding of what type of work your doing and what's a comfortable
height, work area, how many tools your typically need at hand, your
really not able to pick out a bench that's suited exactly to your needs.
And when you really do know all that, you can only pick one off the
shelf to make-do. You end up having to make your own, to suit your use
and needs. I feel the same way about planes. I've already got an old #4
Bailey plane. That's my Make-do plane. Using it tells me allot about
what I'd rather have in a plane. I'm sure that the first wooden one I
build will tell me allot more.

Very true.


Now I can totally understand, people not feeling the same way. I can
also understand buying one of those planes out of respect for the
craftsmanship. For me personally, I can not see buying one to use, in my
journey to form a partnership with my work, my tools, and the wood.
Would feel like setting out on a journey of enlightenment, and borrowing
some one else's map.

I'm mixed about it. I build some of my tools but buy others.
I may use a plan to get a ballpark on something, but everything I
build is to my own specs. Nothing has ever been built entirely to a
plan, including plans I've drawn up for a project or tool. Ad lib,
bro.


5) Seasoning. Wood. If I go out into my yard and chop down a tree. (I've
already done this part, well nature did but same difference)
A) How log should I let it lay before I begin to use it? 6 months of
curing with the bark on, and anything I cut off of it right now still
checks and warps like crazy.


The basics: Fell it, bark it, and slice it in the same day. The longer
it sits with the bark on, the more chance insects have to gain entry.
Sticker and stack it as it is cut. Allow 1 year per inch of thickness
for air drying before use. This link might help speed things up:
http://www.google.com/search?q=homemade+drying+kiln

Oh I happen to have a hugish second building (made of metal) that I've
got no use for (came with the house) I think it would be perfect for
this application. Was already using it to dry wood, but hadn't thought
of converting it into a solar kiln.

There ya go.


Yes. Use an electronic wood moisture meter. $50+

Thought of that, but then I thought of all the old timey wood workers
that got along just fine without them. If I can learn their tricks I
could rely on myself instead of a gaget.

They grew up knowing it from earlier generations. Most of us don't
have that history. And if you're going to build nice stuff and have
it last for generations, it has to be right from the start.


Again, welcome to the Wreck.

Thanks for the warm welcome, lots of useful tidbits you've thrown my way!

Jewelcome. (For the history on that one, Google "tendjewberrymud" on
"rec.woodworking". It's truly a hoot.)

-
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Roland J Rankin Jr wrote:

Conan The Librarian wrote:

[Larry Williams on grain orientation in wooden planes]

I read it, first time it felt I like was being lectured instead of
educated.
second time, felt like it was a collection of tips, but it referenced
allot of data I have no clue what he's talking about. For example
(We prefer the 18th Century style longer planes because the height of
their bodies is less and it limits this effect.)
Myself don't own any 18th century style planes, and don't really expect
to run into one in the near future so most of the knowledge of the
example is lost.

Third time. Figure it's probably meant for advanced workers. People who
have an understanding of the bodies of information that he's confirming
or refuting. For now mostly going to have to be scoured for confirmation
of tips. (like sealing the ends of wood during seasoning, but not
entirely useful for it's intended purpose to me. Perhaps if the author
had included a reference section, I'd be able to cypher it better.

Yes, it is a bit dense, and he goes into great detail over things
that I think have little bearing to us amateurs. I'll see if I can
summarize the points that relate to your previous questions. The plane
blank should be a close to quartersawn as you can get, with the grain
rising from front to back. The sole should be the part that grew
closest to the bark. (I.e., any curvature of the rings should show as a
slight bowl shape when looking at the front of the blank.)

Also, he didn't specifically discuss finishes, but his comments
about the way moisture moves through the plane would indicate that any
type of built-up finish would be counterproductive (as well as pointless
given the fact that it would be worn off the plane's sole very quickly).

For this same reason (moisture movement), he recommends storing a
plane with the wedge and iron removed. Conventional wisdom is that with
changes of season, the plane body can shrink and the wedge can get
jammed or blow out the side of the plane body, and that's why you should
remove them.

Larry doesn't buy this (and frankly, unless you've got the wedge way
out of alignment, there really should be any chance of you having it
tight enough to the sides to cause any problems). His reasoning is that
by removing the iron and wedge, you are allowing moisture to circulate
freely through the endgrain surfaces on the ramp and wear (portion
forward of the mouth). This should equalize any movement of moisture
through the endgrain at the heel and toe of the plane, and make the
whole body more stable.

Is that more clear now? :-)

[snip of some seasoning stuff]

Thanks, Those were tips I am able to understand.

You're welcome. In general, taking wood directly from a tree and
turning into something useful is a great exercise, IMHO. You learn a
lot about reading grain, wood movement, etc. and you get the joy of
cutting into a log and finding the surprises that lie within (not all of
which are good, but that's just a fact of life).

One thing I don't think I mentioned before is that it might be a
good idea to split (rather than saw) some blanks off the log for drying.
Get some pieces that are oversize for the planes you want to make, as
you will have some waste. But removing them from the log will speed up
the drying process.


Chuck Vance

Roland J Rankin Jr wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


Good luck with that. Your best bet is to have someone with a WoodMiser
(or other brand) bandsaw mill come in and cut it up for you, sticker
and stack it. Now build a kiln building around it to help drying it.

I would but that would be against the rules.. snicker
However, what I can do is go have me a gander at one of those WoodMiser
bandsaw mills. Then see if I'm able to replicate with a treadle version.

Or you could build yourself a re-saw framesaw:
http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3

And don't let Lar discourage you from trying to do this stuff by
hand. His problem is he never finishes anything, so he can't envision
anyone else being able to. :-)

I've slabbed mesquite with nothing more than a newish Stanley
"sharksaw" and elbow grease.

snip

Been there, they start with.
step 1.Read owners manual.
step 2. Put on safety goggles.
step 3. Plug in tool

Also tried new and used book stores.
(lucked up and got a copy of The complete Woodworker edited by Bernard
E. Jones, and a couple of the Roy Underhill Books.)
But most of the books deal with with power tools or how to use a
particular power tool to craft a particular set of items. not really my
facet, but I keep looking and reading just the same)

Get your hands on a copy of Aldren Watson's _Handtools : Their Ways
and Workings_. Also Mike Dunbar's book _Restoring, Tuning and Using
Classic Woodworking Tools_ is a must.

[Waterlox]

Hmmm, but how well does it stand up to being rubbed. The face of the
plane is being rubbed daily against wood. The sides or the planes are
being constantly rubbed in a shooting board application for end grain.

Makes me worry about how well the wood is able to resist the temptation
of humidity if the finish is constantly being rubbed thin. Which would
lower the finishes ability to lessen the woods tendency to inhale and
exhale (and expand and contract).

Not to sound like a curmudgeon here, but you won't stop the wood's
expansion and contraction unless you enclose it in plastic. IMHO, less
is more when it comes to plane finishes. Understand that the wood will
move and you will have to true up the sole every so often. You cannot
protect it from dings either unless you plan to store it in a display
cabinet.

FWIW, I've had a Clark & Williams smoother for about four years now,
and I haven't felt the need to true the sole yet. And it lives in an
un-air-conditioned garage/shop in south/central Texas where we get
*wild* temp and humidity fluctuations.

[Knight planes]

Those are pretty planes and really cheap for a quality tool. However
buying one of those to use, would feel wrong to me. Sure it's easier to
go to the store and pick out a work bench, but until you've been in your
shop and used a make-do work bench for your type of work. You really
don't know what type of workbench you really need. After you have an
understanding of what type of work your doing and what's a comfortable
height, work area, how many tools your typically need at hand, your
really not able to pick out a bench that's suited exactly to your needs.
And when you really do know all that, you can only pick one off the
shelf to make-do. You end up having to make your own, to suit your use
and needs. I feel the same way about planes. I've already got an old #4
Bailey plane. That's my Make-do plane. Using it tells me allot about
what I'd rather have in a plane. I'm sure that the first wooden one I
build will tell me allot more.

Now I can totally understand, people not feeling the same way. I can
also understand buying one of those planes out of respect for the
craftsmanship. For me personally, I can not see buying one to use, in my
journey to form a partnership with my work, my tools, and the wood.
Would feel like setting out on a journey of enlightenment, and borrowing
some one else's map.

That's an admirable attitude. But just make sure you split off a
few extra blanks for plane bodies. Because at this stage of your
journey, your map likely won't include all the side roads that you'll
encounter. :-)


Chuck Vance (who's still discovering tools that he *needs*)

Larry Jaques wrote:

10:1 you'll lose the log if you try to do it ALL by hand, but it's
your call.

Nonsense. If he has a chalk-line, a "sharksaw", can saw a
reasonably straight line and is patient, he should be fine.

IME, the biggest mistake you can make when trying to saw a log by
hand is hurrying. Work at it until you get tired or frustrated and then
stop and do something else. If you're waiting a year per inch of
thickness for the stuff to dry, what's a few days more for sawing it up?

[snipped the rest which I agree with totally]


Chuck Vance

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:49:38 -0500, the inscrutable Conan The
Librarian spake:

Roland J Rankin Jr wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


Good luck with that. Your best bet is to have someone with a WoodMiser
(or other brand) bandsaw mill come in and cut it up for you, sticker
and stack it. Now build a kiln building around it to help drying it.

I would but that would be against the rules.. snicker
However, what I can do is go have me a gander at one of those WoodMiser
bandsaw mills. Then see if I'm able to replicate with a treadle version.

Or you could build yourself a re-saw framesaw:
http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3

And don't let Lar discourage you from trying to do this stuff by
hand.

I don't have the energy to even WATCH him resaw that entire humongous
tree by hand, let alone -do- it. I've worked up a sweat just thinking
about it.


His problem is he never finishes anything, so he can't envision
anyone else being able to. :-)

Oh, one little 6-year-old unfinished project and you make it sound
soooo bad...


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

So I guess you two are acquainted?

Thanks for everything guys.

Roland J Rankin Jr.