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Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
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#1
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Grr-gripper question
I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get.
Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I hate to jar loose of the extra 20 bucks, but wonder if I should bite the bullet and get the advanced model. I am not an advanced woodworker and don't know what the advanced model would buy me. Thanks for your help. |
#2
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Sam,
You can buy the basic model now and buy the update kit later if you think you will need it after using the basic model. Ted Sam wrote: I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get. Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I hate to jar loose of the extra 20 bucks, but wonder if I should bite the bullet and get the advanced model. I am not an advanced woodworker and don't know what the advanced model would buy me. Thanks for your help. |
#3
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"Sam" wrote in message news:yRB7e.15112$Bb3.9081@attbi_s22... I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get. Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I hate to jar loose of the extra 20 bucks, but wonder if I should bite the bullet and get the advanced model. I am not an advanced woodworker and don't know what the advanced model would buy me. Thanks for your help. I bought the advanced model and have not been sorry. I keep discovering new uses for it. Vic |
#4
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:30 GMT, "Sam" wrote:
Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I didn't spend that much on my cat, let alone my push stick. |
#5
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Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I
hate to jar loose of the extra 20 bucks, but wonder if I should bite the bullet and get the advanced model. I am not an advanced woodworker and don't know what the advanced model would buy me. Thanks for your help. Go the deluxe model. Once you have it, you will use it for a lot of cuts on the tablesaw and a lot of profile passes on the router table. See my review for more detailed information: http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/grr-ripper.htm -- Regards, Dean Bielanowski Editor, Online Tool Reviews http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Latest 6 Reviews: - WoodHaven Biscuit Master - Veritas Saddle Square - EZ Smart Guide System - Ryobi EBS1310VK Belt Sander - Incra V27 Miter Gauge - GMC BJ110 Biscuit Joiner ------------------------------------------------------------ |
#6
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Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99.
I didn't spend that much on my cat, let alone my push stick. I thought the same until I actually received one. Now I'd pay double the price because it is a terribly useful and safe 'push stick' :-) In fact, I picked up a second. -- Regards, Dean Bielanowski Editor, Online Tool Reviews http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Latest 6 Reviews: - WoodHaven Biscuit Master - Veritas Saddle Square - EZ Smart Guide System - Ryobi EBS1310VK Belt Sander - Incra V27 Miter Gauge - GMC BJ110 Biscuit Joiner ------------------------------------------------------------ |
#7
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Andy Dingley says...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:30 GMT, "Sam" wrote: Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I didn't spend that much on my cat, let alone my push stick. Or if you really like it, you could make a copy out of wood. Now that I've seen it, I think I will make a copy. |
#8
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You won't regret using either one. I use my high dollar one for
everything and don't use any of my old stand by sticks, etc. And your fingers will probably all stay attached too! Robert Smith Jacksonville, Fl. Sam wrote: I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get. Do you recommend the basic model for $49.99 or the other one for 69.99. I hate to jar loose of the extra 20 bucks, but wonder if I should bite the bullet and get the advanced model. I am not an advanced woodworker and don't know what the advanced model would buy me. Thanks for your help. |
#9
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:30 GMT, "Sam" wrote:
I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get. OK, well I for one hate it and think it's unsafe. The problem is that it passes _over_ the blade, which requires you to do through rips with the blade lowered. I do these with the blade as _high_ as possible, because that reduces the horizontal component of blade friction against the work, a major contributor to kickback. Using the Grr-Ripper would require me to lower my blade, which I'm just not prepared to do. So, back to the "long stick" pushstick for me. I also like the idea that a push stick made from scrap can cheerfully be stuck _through_ a blade, if that's the best way to use it. I'm never tempted to do something less safe, just to avoid damaging my expensive stick. It also requires that you don't have a crown guard over the top of the blade, which raises a few European eyebrows - admittedly the younger or pinstripe-suit wearing ones. |
#10
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OK, well I for one hate it and think it's unsafe.
The problem is that it passes _over_ the blade, which requires you to do through rips with the blade lowered. I do these with the blade as _high_ as possible, because that reduces the horizontal component of blade friction against the work, a major contributor to kickback. Using the Grr-Ripper would require me to lower my blade, which I'm just not prepared to do. So, back to the "long stick" pushstick for me. I also like the idea that a push stick made from scrap can cheerfully be stuck _through_ a blade, if that's the best way to use it. I'm never tempted to do something less safe, just to avoid damaging my expensive stick. It also requires that you don't have a crown guard over the top of the blade, which raises a few European eyebrows - admittedly the younger or pinstripe-suit wearing ones. Do you actually have one? Remmeber that the GRR-Ripper provides a good amount of force down on the workpiece as well to help stop it rising up on the back of the blade if it did pinch. Then you have the MJ splitter to further help prevent that. Because both sides of the workpiece are supported, and hence kept seperated during and after the cut, the chance of pinching with the grr-ripper and MJ splitter installed is reduced greatly. Also, you can cut into the GRR-Ripper with your saw bladse and it won't damage the blade. As for blade guards, well its really a moving blade guard. Your fingers are not in danger. I happen to feel MUCH safer using the device, especially when cutting narrow stock, than using a traditional push stick and standard blade guard, which you can't really use easily for narrow cuts anyway. Dean |
#11
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Read the orginal post...answer the man's question....he did not ask if
you were to damn tight to spend a buck....he asked if he needed the advanced model..So if you do not own one , do not post ..It drives me crazy that someone would put a product down that has never used one let alone have enough intellligence to want to use one. Why do you have to be so damn negative against a great idea? If you choose not to buy one, so keep quite about it. |
#12
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Andy Dingley says...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:08:30 GMT, "Sam" wrote: I was thinking of buying one from Amazon, but can't decide which one to get. OK, well I for one hate it and think it's unsafe. The problem is that it passes _over_ the blade, which requires you to do through rips with the blade lowered. I do these with the blade as _high_ as possible, because that reduces the horizontal component of blade friction against the work, a major contributor to kickback. Using the Grr-Ripper would require me to lower my blade, which I'm just not prepared to do. Actually, it sits pretty darned high. Looks like you can have a good 2" blade sticking out of the stock before it hits the gadget. |
#13
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:29:10 +1000, "Woodcrafter"
wrote: Do you actually have one? Of course not. I've only just seen the picture (prompted by this thread) and I don't like the compromise it would force me to make on where I run the blade. Remmeber that the GRR-Ripper provides a good amount of force down on the workpiece as well to help stop it rising up on the back of the blade if it did pinch. Can _you_ arm-wrestle your saw ? I know I can't. Then you have the MJ splitter to further help prevent that. I've got a riving knife anyway, which also has the advantage I don't have to reach past the blade to insert a wedge splitter. Also, you can cut into the GRR-Ripper with your saw bladse and it won't damage the blade. Nor will my sticks. As for blade guards, well its really a moving blade guard. Your fingers are not in danger. My fingers simply don't go that close to the blade. Now it has some guarding, that's accepted, but it's still never going to be as safe as simply not having your hands there at all. cutting narrow stock, than using a traditional push stick and standard blade guard, which you can't really use easily for narrow cuts anyway. I use a narrow push stick. If it's a bit too wide, I left it get trimmed by the blade. |
#14
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I bought the full package because that is all they had. I use the basic
part frequently, but have never used the rest. YMMV. |
#15
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"Hax Planx" wrote in message .net... Or if you really like it, you could make a copy out of wood. Now that I've seen it, I think I will make a copy. You'll lose a lot of little nuances in functionality in a wood copy. You really can't appreciate them just by looking at a picture. Bob |
#16
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Well said Wodcrafter!!! I challenge Andy or anyone to cut 50 pieces
of black ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" long and at the price of ebony ....do not waste anymore material than the saw kerf....I find the Gripper to work very at this...better than any home made push stick I would want to take the time to build. The Gripper is well made and is a terrific help here at my School. I highly recommend the Gripper for anyone with a tablesaw or router table. Well worth the investment....my fingers and hands are well worth the price of a Gripper. Mike from American Sycamore |
#17
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Well said Wodcrafter!!! I challenge Andy or anyone to cut 50 pieces
of black ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" long and at the price of ebony ....do not waste anymore material than the saw kerf....I find the Gripper to work very at this...better than any home made push stick I would want to take the time to build. The Gripper is well made and is a terrific help here at my School. I highly recommend the Gripper for anyone with a tablesaw or router table. Well worth the investment....my fingers and hands are well worth the price of a Gripper. Mike from American Sycamore |
#18
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Well said Wodcrafter!!! I challenge Andy or anyone to cut 50 pieces
of black ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" long and at the price of ebony ....do not waste anymore material than the saw kerf....I find the Gripper to work very at this...better than any home made push stick I would want to take the time to build. The Gripper is well made and is a terrific help here at my School. I highly recommend the Gripper for anyone with a tablesaw or router table. Well worth the investment....my fingers and hands are well worth the price of a Gripper. Mike from American Sycamore |
#19
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Well said Wodcrafter!!! I challenge Andy or anyone to cut 50 pieces
of black ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" long and at the price of ebony ....do not waste anymore material than the saw kerf....I find the Gripper to work very at this...better than any home made push stick I would want to take the time to build. The Gripper is well made and is a terrific help here at my School. I highly recommend the Gripper for anyone with a tablesaw or router table. Well worth the investment....my fingers and hands are well worth the price of a Gripper. Mike from American Sycamore |
#21
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"Ba r r y" wrote in message
On 14 Apr 2005 20:33:56 -0700, wrote: Well said Wodcrafter!!! I challenge Andy or anyone to cut 50 pieces of black ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" long and at the price of ebony ....do not waste anymore material than the saw kerf....I find the Gripper to work very at this...better than any home made push stick I would want to take the time to build. If I didn't have shop made versions, I could do it with my $7 jointer push blocks. SEVEN DOLLARS for "jointer push blocks"??!! ... you must be rich. ;) Actually, that's what I thought until I actually scored a pair of subject devices. I do think they're pricy and that, unfortunately, puts the device into the realm of the "boy toy" for those who have more money than experience and must have one or two of everything and damn the cost. However, if they cost only $12, my bet is that you would throw away those "$7 jointer push blocks" in a heartbeat, G The bottom line for any tool/device/jig/whatever is whether you would replace it if it were lost or stolen ... I would be guilty in this case. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/14/05 |
#22
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:20 GMT, Ba r r y
wrote: If I didn't have shop made versions, I could do it with my $7 jointer push blocks. The bright orange set of three ? I've got a set of those - I should have saved the money. They're a nice idea and the bright orange colour stops me loosing them, but the black rubber base is poor quality and falls apart. When I realised this was leaving black marks on the workpiece, I had to replace it. Next time I'd just make my own. |
#23
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#24
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... this stick gives as good control of the workpiece as Grr-Ripper Andy, I have a lot of respect for you and your breadth of knowledge. I view you as renaissance man and you contribute a lot to this conference. I'm disappointed in reading this thread. I think you've ripped your britches giving such firm opinions about a device it appears you've never even used for a minute. It hurts your otherwise outstanding credibility. Bob |
#25
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sorry for the multi-post....some reason my computer was real slow and I
thought it was not posting......second thing....you can lead a horse to water but you can not make them drink.....stupid is stupid....and some people can not see the forrest because of the woods.....not going to change some hard-headed persons mind...so I won't try...I give up! Don't care if you want to take a chance on cutting all your damn fingers off, just don't do it in my shop...I won't let you Mike |
#26
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:51:43 GMT, "BillyBob"
wrote: I think you've ripped your britches giving such firm opinions about a device it appears you've never even used That's a fair comment, in general don't listen to the guy who hasn't actually used it. And I might just be plain wrong - wouldn't be the first time. I'm still waiting to hear any rebuttal of my key point though. I don't like this thing because it requires me to lower the blade when ripping, something I think is more dangerous than any advantage gained by using it. Now if you personally disagree over the positioning issue, then that's fair comment - but you don't need to _handle_ the Grr-Ripper to know that it's going to involve it. There are a few cases when it could be useful. But for these I can make a push block as I need it - I don't need adjustability. As an adjustable push block, it's a great piece of work. But I don't need an adjustable push block, and this is an expensive substitute for a simple non-adjustable one. |
#27
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BillyBob says...
You'll lose a lot of little nuances in functionality in a wood copy. You really can't appreciate them just by looking at a picture. Bob I don't doubt they are nice, but somewhere you have to draw the line when it comes to tool indulgence. |
#28
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on 4/15/2005 4:18 PM Hax Planx said the following:
BillyBob says... You'll lose a lot of little nuances in functionality in a wood copy. You really can't appreciate them just by looking at a picture. Bob I don't doubt they are nice, but somewhere you have to draw the line when it comes to tool indulgence. Why? g |
#29
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You really don't get it.
With the gripper YOU can actually control the workpiece and YOU can't do that with a long push stick. (and the splitter is "permanently" installed. You don't reach across the blade to install it as you're ripping.) Robert Smith Andy Dingley wrote: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:29:10 +1000, "Woodcrafter" wrote: Do you actually have one? Of course not. I've only just seen the picture (prompted by this thread) and I don't like the compromise it would force me to make on where I run the blade. Remmeber that the GRR-Ripper provides a good amount of force down on the workpiece as well to help stop it rising up on the back of the blade if it did pinch. Can _you_ arm-wrestle your saw ? I know I can't. Then you have the MJ splitter to further help prevent that. I've got a riving knife anyway, which also has the advantage I don't have to reach past the blade to insert a wedge splitter. Also, you can cut into the GRR-Ripper with your saw bladse and it won't damage the blade. Nor will my sticks. As for blade guards, well its really a moving blade guard. Your fingers are not in danger. My fingers simply don't go that close to the blade. Now it has some guarding, that's accepted, but it's still never going to be as safe as simply not having your hands there at all. cutting narrow stock, than using a traditional push stick and standard blade guard, which you can't really use easily for narrow cuts anyway. I use a narrow push stick. If it's a bit too wide, I left it get trimmed by the blade. |
#30
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On 15 Apr 2005 17:15:42 -0700, "Knotbob" wrote:
With the gripper YOU can actually control the workpiece and YOU can't do that with a long push stick. Just because it's called a "stick" doesn't mean it has to look like a twig. You can put a base on them that's just as big and controllable as the Grr-Ripper. The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. (and the splitter is "permanently" installed. You don't reach across the blade to install it as you're ripping.) Sorry, I worded that badly - I was thinking about separate wedge splitters (which is what I'd have to use if I'd dropped my riving knife off for a cut). -- Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet. |
#31
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The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit
it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. I assume you either have not used a Grr-ripper or the blade on your saw is 12" or larger. As far as I know, the Grr-ripper is designed to completely clear the portion of a 10" blade that extends above the table when fully raised. It's a little late at night to do it now, but tomorrow I will go out into the shop (a/k/a the garage) and confirm this. I will also mount a 12" blade in my old saw and see how close that clearance is. Perhaps I'll even post a photo or two at a-b-p-w. Lee -- To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon" |
#32
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. Just for the sake of discussion, how much higher than the wood do you raise the blade? My experience with ripping is that the cleanest cuts are ones where the blade is about halfway between the bottom and top of the deepest gullets, with the emphasis on making sure that the carbide tips are above the wood at the top of the rise. |
#33
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"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
... The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. Not sure what the problem is that he's having, but the pictures on the microjig.com website shows that it can easily clear 5" which is well above the maximum height of a 10" blade. |
#34
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Upscale wrote:
"Lee Gordon" wrote in message ... The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. Not sure what the problem is that he's having, but the pictures on the microjig.com website shows that it can easily clear 5" which is well above the maximum height of a 10" blade. Huh? Looking at the Microjig site, they claim that the narrow leg is 1/4" wide. Scaling from that the throat depth is about an inch. Now, scaling from an online photo is not the most accurate process in the world, but still there's no way I'm off by a factor of 5 on that. -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#35
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... I don't like this thing because it requires me to lower the blade when ripping, something I think is more dangerous than any advantage gained by using it. I don't understand the mechanics of the danger of lowering the blade when ripping. Could you elaborate? My understanding is that kickback originates at the rear of the blade with the teeth catching the wood enough to kick it back. How does lowering the blade increase the likelihood of this process happening? Thanks, Bob |
#36
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"BillyBob" wrote in message "Andy Dingley" wrote in message I don't like this thing because it requires me to lower the blade when ripping, something I think is more dangerous than any advantage gained by using it. I don't understand the mechanics of the danger of lowering the blade when ripping. Could you elaborate? My understanding is that kickback originates at the rear of the blade with the teeth catching the wood enough to kick it back. How does lowering the blade increase the likelihood of this process happening? Think about it for a minute with the idea that, with the blade at its highest setting, the front teeth are now biting into the wood at an increased angle (almost straight down toward the table if the board is thin enough), thereby creating downward pressure (toward the table) on the board where the teeth are doing the cutting If you try it, you will be able to actually feel that this increased downward pressure offsets a tendency for the board to rise up off the table while being cut when the blade is set lower. Many feel this reduces the risk of kickback ... and a good argument can be made that every little factor in your favor helps. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/14/05 |
#37
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"Swingman" wrote in message news:O9KdnbkCAsSLzfzfRVn-
Think about it for a minute with the idea that, with the blade at its highest setting, the front teeth are now biting into the wood at an increased angle (almost straight down toward the table if the board is thin enough), thereby creating downward pressure (toward the table) on the board where the teeth are doing the cutting You're forgetting one thing though. With the blade raised to it's maximum height, there's more blade in the meat of the wood increasing the chances of the wood pinching the blade and being hurled in a kickback. Of course, a splitter is supposed to protect against that, but a splitter is not infallible against this type of action. While you're probably right about the front teeth coming down on the wood pressing it into the table, the reverse is true on the back teeth coming up to the wood increasing the chances that it's going to raise the rear section of the wood setting up a kickback scenario. |
#38
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"Upscale" wrote in message "Swingman" wrote in message Think about it for a minute with the idea that, with the blade at its highest setting, the front teeth are now biting into the wood at an increased angle (almost straight down toward the table if the board is thin enough), thereby creating downward pressure (toward the table) on the board where the teeth are doing the cutting You're forgetting one thing though. With the blade raised to it's maximum height, there's more blade in the meat of the wood increasing the chances of the wood pinching the blade and being hurled in a kickback. Of course, a splitter is supposed to protect against that, but a splitter is not infallible against this type of action. While you're probably right about the front teeth coming down on the wood pressing it into the table, the reverse is true on the back teeth coming up to the wood increasing the chances that it's going to raise the rear section of the wood setting up a kickback scenario. First off, I am not particularly an advocate of ultra high blades, I really don't care to argue any of the points, I was just trying to answer the question as to why some folks feel the way they do, and I haven't forgotten anything (well, that ain't exactly true cuz I am so damn tired of working 8 days a week here lately that I can't remember my own name half the time). But do go out to the shop and see if you can't feel the difference between a high and low blade, particularly when first starting the cut. All my life I have noticed the tendency of a board to "ride up" if the blade is low when ripping, and that tendency disappears with the blade set up high. Hell, maybe I've just been dreaming that my touch with the saw has been good enough to "feel" that.. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/14/05 |
#39
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Just walked out to the shop and measured the depth of the channle, and
there is approx 1in of clearance from the bottom of the green pad and the inside upper edge of the gripper. So, you can have the blade approx 1in above the workpiece and NOT cut the GRRRipper Gosh, someone who actually owns a GRRRipper is posting on this instead of just trying to guess about this from the pictures on the Gripper website - will wonders never cease vbg! John On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:41:19 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: Upscale wrote: "Lee Gordon" wrote in message ... The difference is that the Grr-Ripper is low. So low that I can't fit it past the blade, without dropping the blade to a position I'd regard as less than ideal for ripping. Not sure what the problem is that he's having, but the pictures on the microjig.com website shows that it can easily clear 5" which is well above the maximum height of a 10" blade. Huh? Looking at the Microjig site, they claim that the narrow leg is 1/4" wide. Scaling from that the throat depth is about an inch. Now, scaling from an online photo is not the most accurate process in the world, but still there's no way I'm off by a factor of 5 on that. |
#40
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"John" wrote in message
Just walked out to the shop and measured the depth of the channle, and there is approx 1in of clearance from the bottom of the green pad and the inside upper edge of the gripper. So, you can have the blade approx 1in above the workpiece and NOT cut the GRRRipper Gosh, someone who actually owns a GRRRipper is posting on this instead of just trying to guess about this from the pictures on the Gripper website - will wonders never cease vbg! Amazing, ain't it? But you ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait til' the physics majors, or wannabe physic's majors, or those whose great aunts are physic's majors, get going on the various forces acting on the blade and wood during a cut. It may be time to nuke the thread because it looks like this cow's been milked. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/14/05 |
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