Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe to
produce crafts.


--
Denis

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the "aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their "chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..

George wrote:
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe
to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there
are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have
been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the
"aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching
the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their
"chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..

================================================== ==========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce

Well no kidding, being made of stone and all. How else to move it
around! Maybe they didn't know about paper?



wrote:

George wrote:

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...

Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe

to

produce crafts.


Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there

are known

wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have

been

well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the

"aliens"

never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching

the

Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their

"chariots" had

no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..


================================================== ==========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce

Eddie Munster wrote:

Well no kidding, being made of stone and all. How else to move it
around! Maybe they didn't know about paper?

I seem to recall that part of the problem with the Mesoamerican
civilizations and the wheel was that they did not have a large draft animal
of any kind and that soil conditions were such that in the absence of
something with the brute force to pull a cart through the mud a man could
carry more on his back than in a wheeled conveyance.

But that recollection is very vague.

Of course the Spanish had oxen, mules, and horses, so they did not have this
same problem.

On the other hand the Mesoamerican civilizations apparently did not use the
potter's wheel, so perhaps the idea of using the wheel in a tool did not
occur to them.

wrote:

George wrote:

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...

Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe

to

produce crafts.


Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there

are known

wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have

been

well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the

"aliens"

never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching

the

Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their

"chariots" had

no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..



================================================== ==========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:

I seem to recall that part of the problem with the Mesoamerican
civilizations and the wheel was that they did not have a large draft animal
of any kind and that soil conditions were such that in the absence of
something with the brute force to pull a cart through the mud a man could
carry more on his back than in a wheeled conveyance.

That's obviously incorrect. Never mind large draft animals -- anyone who's
ever used a wheelbarrow or a two-wheel dolly knows that a man can carry more
on a wheeled conveyance than he can on his back. You don't need draft animals
to make wheels useful.

J. Clarke wrote:


I seem to recall that part of the problem with the Mesoamerican
civilizations and the wheel was that they did not have a large draft animal
of any kind and that soil conditions were such that in the absence of
something with the brute force to pull a cart through the mud a man could
carry more on his back than in a wheeled conveyance.

Yep.

wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe
to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there
are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have
been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the
"aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching
the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their
"chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..


================================================== ==========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce


Is a circle a wheel?

With no axle, it's just a circle.

"George" george@least wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the
lathe
to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there
are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would
have
been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the
"aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while
teaching
the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their
"chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..


================================================== =====================
=====

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce


Is a circle a wheel?

With no axle, it's just a circle.




With no spokes, or other means to attach it to an axle, it is a circle.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:16:44 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

George wrote:
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe
to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there
are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have
been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the
"aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching
the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their
"chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..


================================================= ===========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.
The Other Bruce


Is a circle a wheel?

With no axle, it's just a circle.


With an advanced astronomical calendar, it's almost certainly a wheel.
It seems fairly impossible that they would not be aware of the wheel,
but it is possible that they did not use them for religious reasons.
Look at Islam- in many cases, it is absolutely taboo for a Muslim to
create an image of any living creature, hence the geometric art that
is so prevelent in that society. It's not that these folks are
unaware that they could make a picture of a person, it's just that
they feel that they are commiting hubris by trying to replicate the
works of Allah, IIRC. The same logic applies to the Mayans and
Aztecs.

I don't know about turned wood, but I'm pretty sure they had turned
pottery, so it's quite possible they had lathes as well. It's always
possible for even the most devotely devoted peoples to find a way
around their scripture when necessity calls.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:09:19 -0600, Prometheus
wrote:


With an advanced astronomical calendar, it's almost certainly a wheel.
It seems fairly impossible that they would not be aware of the wheel,
but it is possible that they did not use them for religious reasons.

There is no Mayan or contemporary Spanish evidence to support
this...hypothesis.

I don't know about turned wood, but I'm pretty sure they had turned
pottery,

Nope. No potter's wheels.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

George wrote:

Is a circle a wheel?


It depends if they roll it to go from A to B.

A circle only exits in a flat plane with no depth. The calendar had a
depth to it.

If depth is not important, then the question is "when does a circle
become a cylinder?" For instance a circle of zero depth with a diamerter
of four feet, is now stretched out to a depth of eight feet. Clearly
this is now a cylinder. It got to be a cylinder by passing through the
wheel stage.

Now lets all go to ebay and buy pen blanks.

wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Every where we hear that they did not use the wheel.
I wonder if these civilizations have ever use a tool like the lathe
to
produce crafts.

Apparently the wheel was not known to them, though I believe there
are known
wheeled toys from the Aztec.

It's a bit of a problem for Mormon theology, as the wheel would have
been
well-known to the Israelites. It's also a bit strange that the
"aliens"
never passed along the modest technology of the wheel while teaching
the
Amerinds all the advanced math and astronomy. Perhaps their
"chariots" had
no wheels, in spite of Von Daniken..


================================================== ==========================

I don't know about the \Aztecs, but the Myans did indeed know about a
Wheel. It was a Holy symbol, and therefore, they would not use it for
anything a mundain as a tool. Their calander is round.

round is a circle
but a circle does not a wheel make

The Other Bruce

BTW - they also "invented" zero

CBII

(ahem...) Getting back to central american civilization and turning...
A friend noticed I was into turning and gave me what he described as a
"chocolate stirer" he said was used by the Mexicans, and the Aztecs
before them to stir their chocolate. A spindle turning, it looks sort
of like a fluted ball on the end of a stick, with some decoration.
About 10" long and 1-1/2" diameter at the ball. The friend said he got
it a Disneyland in 1955, where he watched a Mexican gentleman hand turn
this piece in minutes with nothing more than a block of wood with a
depression in it (tailstock) held between his feet, a stringed bow
(headstock) and some kind of tool which he kept sharp by "grinding" on
the cement he sat on. Wasn't clear what he used for a tool rest, if
any, or how he juggled all the pieces while turning, wish I'd been
there to see it. So a wheel is not required to turn wood.

wrote in message
oups.com...
(ahem...) Getting back to central american civilization and turning...
A friend noticed I was into turning and gave me what he described as a
"chocolate stirer" he said was used by the Mexicans, and the Aztecs
before them to stir their chocolate. A spindle turning, it looks sort
of like a fluted ball on the end of a stick, with some decoration.
About 10" long and 1-1/2" diameter at the ball. The friend said he got
it a Disneyland in 1955, where he watched a Mexican gentleman hand turn
this piece in minutes with nothing more than a block of wood with a
depression in it (tailstock) held between his feet, a stringed bow
(headstock) and some kind of tool which he kept sharp by "grinding" on
the cement he sat on. Wasn't clear what he used for a tool rest, if
any, or how he juggled all the pieces while turning, wish I'd been
there to see it. So a wheel is not required to turn wood.


Woman who works with my wife at the college brought one of those chocolate
stirring devices back from Mexico for me, because she knew I was a turner.
Elaborately burned and perforated on the one I have.
The turning itself is both wheel and axle in the circumstance. The rotary
motion about an axis or axle needed to define a wheel is there, though it is
also clear that this component of two of the Greeks' four fundamental
machines was not developed, or if developed, not documented in Amerind
cultures.

I'll stick with the AHD, where " wheel (hw¶l, w¶l) n. 1. A solid disk or a
rigid circular ring connected by spokes to a hub, designed to turn around an
axle passed through the center. 2. Something resembling such a disk or ring
in appearance or movement or having a wheel as its principal part or
characteristic, as: a. The steering device on a vehicle. b. A potter's
wheel. c. A water wheel. d. A spinning wheel. ...."

The evidence for drought cited is only part of the picture. Populations
decline to the level the food supply, which includes the available game, can
support, then rise again with the food supply. Clearly this did not happen
in this case. I'll stick with disease and/or warfare over available
resources as the actual nail in the coffin. Most sources I've seen make a
good deal of the fact that a static population easily decimates the
undomesticated fauna within the distance required to sortie forth, kill, and
bring back anything resembling edible high-quality protein. Fairly short
distance in the tropics.

Don't even get me started on the Mormons. The Utah Faction still
controls many of the regulars here in this forum. Nish and those
Godless Canadians would have destroyed this group long ago were it not
for my vigilance in pointing out the bigamist conspiracy.
God Bless,
Al Kyder