It seems to me from opinions posted to turning groups and from eyeball
chats that Glaser gouges are clearly superior. The only reasons given
for buying the 'just as goods' instead of a Glaser appear to be the
price and being able to afford three 'just as goods' instead of one
Glaser.

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Well folks, I am resolved in 2004 to recover from chronic frugal 1930's
disease, and buying a Glaser or two should be excellent initial therapy.
Two? Good grief, I'll overdose, but my wife nags me at my age to buy,
buy, buy instead of saving mean. I hope to avoid side effects such
as the feared 'I could have had three .....'s syndrome all the while
turning out more 'not so good's.

So please will somebody explain just what it is that makes a Glaser
worth so much.
The flute shape? The factory grind? The metal? The colored handle's
shape and those buckshot? The Glaser name? The loyality and
accomplishments of Glaser users? The 'at that price it must be the best'
refrain, along with the 'you get what you pay for' mystique? All of the
above? None of the above? What? A bit of cash left after taxes is
burning my pocket. Help! Arch

Fortiter,

found through google:
Glaser tools are not made from HSS but rather a powdered metal technology
steel that has superlative edge holding qualities. These steels are not,
however, high speed and care to not over heat during grinding should be
exercised. Again wait until arrival to grind if in doubt.
It seems to me from opinions posted to turning groups and from eyeball
chats that Glaser gouges are clearly superior. The only reasons given
for buying the 'just as goods' instead of a Glaser appear to be the
price and being able to afford three 'just as goods' instead of one
Glaser.

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Well folks, I am resolved in 2004 to recover from chronic frugal 1930's
disease, and buying a Glaser or two should be excellent initial therapy.
Two? Good grief, I'll overdose, but my wife nags me at my age to buy,
buy, buy instead of saving mean. I hope to avoid side effects such
as the feared 'I could have had three .....'s syndrome all the while
turning out more 'not so good's.

So please will somebody explain just what it is that makes a Glaser
worth so much.
The flute shape? The factory grind? The metal? The colored handle's
shape and those buckshot? The Glaser name? The loyality and
accomplishments of Glaser users? The 'at that price it must be the best'
refrain, along with the 'you get what you pay for' mystique? All of the
above? None of the above? What? A bit of cash left after taxes is
burning my pocket. Help! Arch

Fortiter,

You have described it very well "As a product of the great depression'.
When you are gone If not the government your heirs will take care of what
you have left.
Recently I learned that when you have to go to an intensive nursing home the
cost is $4,000.00 per month. My best friend's mother had to go one. She had
no problem paying because she spent all her life saving her money. The other
guy on welfare was admitted to an intensive nursing home. He had no problem
paying the $4,000.00 per month, the welfare picks up the monthly tab. The
serial killer serving a life sentence goes to an intensive nursing home, not
a problem paying the $4.000.00 per month the taxes' payer pays the bill. So
not spending your money on something that you have dreamed about may serve
to pay someone's bill later. Conversely, not spending your money on dreamed
tool to pay for your food, taxes and other bills makes sense. That does not
mean that you have to be ripped off to the profit of someone else.


"Arch" wrote in message news:9626-3FEDF71E-51@storefull-
3171.bay.webtv.net...
It seems to me from opinions posted to turning groups and from eyeball
chats that Glaser gouges are clearly superior. The only reasons given
for buying the 'just as goods' instead of a Glaser appear to be the
price and being able to afford three 'just as goods' instead of one
Glaser.

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Well folks, I am resolved in 2004 to recover from chronic frugal 1930's
disease, and buying a Glaser or two should be excellent initial therapy.
Two? Good grief, I'll overdose, but my wife nags me at my age to buy,
buy, buy instead of saving mean. I hope to avoid side effects such
as the feared 'I could have had three .....'s syndrome all the while
turning out more 'not so good's.

So please will somebody explain just what it is that makes a Glaser
worth so much.
The flute shape? The factory grind? The metal? The colored handle's
shape and those buckshot? The Glaser name? The loyality and
accomplishments of Glaser users? The 'at that price it must be the best'
refrain, along with the 'you get what you pay for' mystique? All of the
above? None of the above? What? A bit of cash left after taxes is
burning my pocket. Help! Arch

Fortiter,

Arch,I suggest you use a friend's first to see if the cost is justified to
you....I only have two and worked from crown,sorby,and pn till I finally got
the gumption to spend the bucks...I love mine...I have the 3/4 and 1/2 in
bowl gouges and they are just fantastic..I like the weight and shock
absorbing capabilitie...good luck,Rick
"Arch" wrote in message
...
It seems to me from opinions posted to turning groups and from eyeball
chats that Glaser gouges are clearly superior. The only reasons given
for buying the 'just as goods' instead of a Glaser appear to be the
price and being able to afford three 'just as goods' instead of one
Glaser.

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Well folks, I am resolved in 2004 to recover from chronic frugal 1930's
disease, and buying a Glaser or two should be excellent initial therapy.
Two? Good grief, I'll overdose, but my wife nags me at my age to buy,
buy, buy instead of saving mean. I hope to avoid side effects such
as the feared 'I could have had three .....'s syndrome all the while
turning out more 'not so good's.

So please will somebody explain just what it is that makes a Glaser
worth so much.
The flute shape? The factory grind? The metal? The colored handle's
shape and those buckshot? The Glaser name? The loyality and
accomplishments of Glaser users? The 'at that price it must be the best'
refrain, along with the 'you get what you pay for' mystique? All of the
above? None of the above? What? A bit of cash left after taxes is
burning my pocket. Help! Arch

Fortiter,

Hi Arch,
I think you know the answers already, but I'll bite anyway.

First, what makes a Glaser cost so much.
Well, they are made of very high quality materials in the US by a
talented and knowledgeable engineer who has also been an active
woodturner and thus understands the design and use of what he is making,
strives for excellent quality control and wishes to make a decent living
from his efforts. Specifically, the formed anodized shot peened aluminum
handles of his design cost far more than wooden handles, the CPM steels
are very expensive and somewhat more difficult to work, and even
features like the lead shot add to the materials cost and shipping weight.

Second, what makes a Glaser worth so much. The big reason has not so
much to do with any single or few specifics, as it has to do with the
fact that many specific factors are brought together in one synergistic
package. But to the specifics:

1. The shaft materials are exotic CPM steels mostly A-11 and V-15 (a few
things are available in less exotic M-4) which have excellent wear
resistance and thus edge retention (the Hamlet 2060 only approximates
the A-11 in this regard and nothing currently available touches the
V-15). You will spend less time going back to the grinder, and/or will
spend more time operating with a sharp edge (in large part due to the
very high Vanadium content). The fine dispersal of carbide and other
inclusions in the CPM steel allow a very refined edge to be established.
Jerry is an aerospace engineer who has a very sophisticated
understanding of tool steel alloys and has given considerable thought
and experimentation to what steels make the most sense, rather than just
buying the latest steel some steel mill salesman has been promoting.

2. Usually not mentioned, but I find the A-11 and V15 shafts to be
stiffer than HSS M2 and M4 shafts, which I find very desirable when
working with smaller shaft diameters such as 3/8 OD gouges. They are
also shot peened which reduces stress and provides an attractive finish.

3. The shafts come with a V shaped flute that is very well suited for a
swept back grind in that they allow for a narrow nose for detail work
and allow more mass behind the primary working area of the swept back
edge than more U shaped designs. The flutes are long and thus (with the
wear resistant steel) offer extended tool life. The flutes could be
better polished, but this is easily done and maintained using the large
and small Henry Taylor slipstone set that is available from Craft
Supplies (the small works perfectly for the bowl gouges, the large for
the shallow gouges).

4. They come sharp and well ground with what most find to be a desirable
geometry which in the bowl gouges is very similar to the Ellsworth grind
(60 degree bevel, roughtly 3/4 inch wings). The geometry is easily
modified to flatter or longer wings with little effort.

5. The handles are formed and for my hands have a nice diameter, the
length is well matched to the shaft size, the shot peened surface offers
a nice unobtrusive gripping surface, and the color anodization does make
them more interesting and easier to identify and prevent the aluminum
from staining your hands and clothing. I find them just right in
temperature for my climate, but for those who live where they might
become very hot or cold, either wear gloves or it is easy to put a light
cover of grip tape over them.

6. The lead shot fill in the handles dampens vibration, creates an
inertial resistance to small knocks, and offers what I find to be a very
nice balance (indeed, I can't stand to use wood handled tools anymore as
I find them so ridiculously front heavy). You can reduce the quantity of
lead shot if you would like to fine tune the balance for your sensibilities.

7. The attachment of the shafts to the handles is exceptionally
secure,unobtrusive (no set screws to lossen or stick out like on other
metal shafts) but allows for relatively easy reuse of the handles with a
replacement shaft when the original shaft is worn out (which you may
find very hard to do).

There is more, but this covers what readily comes to mind at the moment.
Again, it is not necessarily so much that any single characteristic is
so overwhelmingly desirable or unique, but that all of these
characteristics come together in one tool which becomes "more" than it's
component parts.

If you are considering two, I'd recommend the 3/8 inch bowl gouge in
A-11 and the 5/8 inch bowl gouge in V-15 or A-11. He makes great shallow
and detail gouges, but I think you will appreciate the special Glaser
characteristics the most in his bowl gouges. I really like the 3/8 inch
for small scale and detail work, I really like the 5/8 for roughing out,
big bowls and hollow forms. I find the 5/8 to work great for shear
scraping (second only to the 3/4, but the 3/4 is really overkill for
most mortals). If you only get one, then I suggest you split the
difference and get the 1/2 inch as it will work well for a lot of
turning and be adequate for the size work you will do on the Nova.

Anyway, those are the thoughts that come to me right now, but I'm sure
I'm leaving out at least one other reason why the Glasers can be so
desirable.

Lyn





Arch wrote:
It seems to me from opinions posted to turning groups and from eyeball
chats that Glaser gouges are clearly superior. The only reasons given
for buying the 'just as goods' instead of a Glaser appear to be the
price and being able to afford three 'just as goods' instead of one
Glaser.

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Well folks, I am resolved in 2004 to recover from chronic frugal 1930's
disease, and buying a Glaser or two should be excellent initial therapy.
Two? Good grief, I'll overdose, but my wife nags me at my age to buy,
buy, buy instead of saving mean. I hope to avoid side effects such
as the feared 'I could have had three .....'s syndrome all the while
turning out more 'not so good's.

So please will somebody explain just what it is that makes a Glaser
worth so much.
The flute shape? The factory grind? The metal? The colored handle's
shape and those buckshot? The Glaser name? The loyality and
accomplishments of Glaser users? The 'at that price it must be the best'
refrain, along with the 'you get what you pay for' mystique? All of the
above? None of the above? What? A bit of cash left after taxes is
burning my pocket. Help! Arch

Fortiter,

Arch,

We don't know eachother. I read your post and enjoy them. I am not a
product of the depression but my wife encourages me to spend within my
limits, and enjoy the financal blessings I have received in my life.
I had been using 14" long Crapsman I got from my Dad's estate and was
doing well with them. I was using a roughing gouge for everything,
bowls, spindels, segment turning. I was happy. I kept hearing about
this "bowl gouge" stuff on this NG.
I decided to get one. I spent $170 bucks for a set of Sorby just to
get the bowl gouge out of it (especially when I looked at my Crapsman
gouge and it was bent about 15 degrees, unknowingly)!
The Sorby was great but I was turing 19" stuff. Needed a long and
strong.
I wrasseled with what to get.
I was set on the Crown PM 5/8" Ellsworth grind. I was set to order
when I started reading the Glaser posts.
I ordered the 5/8" Glaser.
It makes large turning so effortless IMHO. I used to have to stop and
rest my hands or arms (From vibration, or stress)while turning a bowl.
With the Glaser, there is none of that. The handle dampens the
vibration.
The edge that comes on it is as sharp as it can be. I used it to set
up my vari-grind and I reground my Sorby to the same edge.
I have had my PM 3520 for almost a year now, and the Glaser just makes
my hobby even more enjoyable. I never sell anything I make. I just
give it away, and having a tool which dramatically speeds up the time,
quality and pleasure of turning, allows me to give more away sooner.
I wish I had got it sooner. (Sorry I keep using sooner, but I live in
Oklahoma and my daughter goes to OU, Sooner is better!) It really
holds an edge. They guy at Cutting Edge who I talked to on the phone,
did a good job comparing the Crown PM and the like to the Glaser. He
had tried them all and told me it was the best on the market, and I
wouldn't be disappointed.
I don't think you will be disappointed.
It is almost the same argument I went through when I got my cabinet
saw. Jet, Delta, Grizzly, or PM 66. Finally some guy cleared it all
up for me. No one who buys a Powermatic 66 wishes they had purchased
a Jet, Delta, or Grizzly.

RP

Well, Arch, this one should have cleared your conscience about getting
one.

RP Edington wrote:

Arch,

We don't know eachother. I read your post and enjoy them. I am not a
product of the depression but my wife encourages me to spend within my
limits, and enjoy the financal blessings I have received in my life.
I had been using 14" long Crapsman I got from my Dad's estate and was
doing well with them. I was using a roughing gouge for everything,
bowls, spindels, segment turning. I was happy. I kept hearing about
this "bowl gouge" stuff on this NG.
I decided to get one. I spent $170 bucks for a set of Sorby just to
get the bowl gouge out of it (especially when I looked at my Crapsman
gouge and it was bent about 15 degrees, unknowingly)!
The Sorby was great but I was turing 19" stuff. Needed a long and
strong.
I wrasseled with what to get.
I was set on the Crown PM 5/8" Ellsworth grind. I was set to order
when I started reading the Glaser posts.
I ordered the 5/8" Glaser.
It makes large turning so effortless IMHO. I used to have to stop and
rest my hands or arms (From vibration, or stress)while turning a bowl.
With the Glaser, there is none of that. The handle dampens the
vibration.
The edge that comes on it is as sharp as it can be. I used it to set
up my vari-grind and I reground my Sorby to the same edge.
I have had my PM 3520 for almost a year now, and the Glaser just makes
my hobby even more enjoyable. I never sell anything I make. I just
give it away, and having a tool which dramatically speeds up the time,
quality and pleasure of turning, allows me to give more away sooner.
I wish I had got it sooner. (Sorry I keep using sooner, but I live in
Oklahoma and my daughter goes to OU, Sooner is better!) It really
holds an edge. They guy at Cutting Edge who I talked to on the phone,
did a good job comparing the Crown PM and the like to the Glaser. He
had tried them all and told me it was the best on the market, and I
wouldn't be disappointed.
I don't think you will be disappointed.
It is almost the same argument I went through when I got my cabinet
saw. Jet, Delta, Grizzly, or PM 66. Finally some guy cleared it all
up for me. No one who buys a Powermatic 66 wishes they had purchased
a Jet, Delta, or Grizzly.

RP

--

Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
............................................
Man is born unto trouble, as the
sparks fly upward.


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Just like all those other Cadillac-drivin' geezers....

No gouge will make you "good," but it may make you feel better. Isn't that
enough, given the brevity of life?

"Arch" wrote in message
...

As a product of the great depression, I've always found difficulty in
justifying going absolutely first class, and I have turned many 'not
quite as good' (some say "not nearly") pieces to prove it. ;(

Arch, sometimes I buy something I don't really need just to see what it is
like. I think you should do that in this case, so you can tell the rest of
us what you find out.

That way, I won't have to risk my money on something so expensive.:-)

Many thanks to each of you. Lyn, your bite resulted in an especially
good catch, thanks. I think you know that I was surf fishing, not
trolling.

Musing about your comments re the strength of Glaser shafts and that you
may have left out one reason: I think that we all agree that honed
edges have some advantage over ground ones. Many believe that honing
adds little because of the short lived difference. Others swear by
honing, either on a flat stone or a water wheel. Could those who rave
about the glaser be the 'honers'? Maybe the glaser steel can support a
honed edge and/or a narrow bevel much longer than other steels so that
the advantages of honing are realized? It would be interesting to know
the opinions of glaser owners who also own Tormeks. All best, Arch

Fortiter,

Hi Arch,
IMO, your "surf fishing" is one of the largest reasons this group has
remained alive, and largely has returned to something it once was.

It is very interesting to read your comments on honing. I almost
mentioned something less developed along these lines, but didn't feel I
had the evidence to support those suppositions. But yes, I do suspect
that the Glasers will hold that finer edge a significant length of time,
and thus make the honing efforts worthwhile and result in a meaningful
improvement. BTW, as some know, Jerry Glaser himself uses a quite course
wheel to grind his gouges (not surprising since the primary use of his
grinder is to establish the initial geometry), but for actual turning
uses a fairly fine grit diamond paddle to refine the edge afterwards. I
still support Robbie Farrance's objective findings that a wet ground,
fine grit edge has longer edge life in even HSS, but suspect the overall
advantages may well be greater with the more exotic tool steels.

Lyn

who BTW finds your advocacy for swivel head lathes (in another thread)
to be spot on


Arch wrote:
Many thanks to each of you. Lyn, your bite resulted in an especially
good catch, thanks. I think you know that I was surf fishing, not
trolling.

Musing about your comments re the strength of Glaser shafts and that you
may have left out one reason: I think that we all agree that honed
edges have some advantage over ground ones. Many believe that honing
adds little because of the short lived difference. Others swear by
honing, either on a flat stone or a water wheel. Could those who rave
about the glaser be the 'honers'? Maybe the glaser steel can support a
honed edge and/or a narrow bevel much longer than other steels so that
the advantages of honing are realized? It would be interesting to know
the opinions of glaser owners who also own Tormeks. All best, Arch

Fortiter,

Hey Arch,

Happy Holidays to you!

You've already got some wonderful replies here so I'll just add that
I've never seen a Brinks truck in a funeral procession!

So go order that Glaser if you want and have fun long as you can!

Bertie

Another plus: the polygonal handle won't roll off the ways of the lathe.