I have just made my first oland tool using a 3/16 lathe tool.
I have a few questions I hope BB members can answer for me.
I ruined a grind stone trying to grind it, must I use a special stone or
should the tool be treated in some way before and after grinding?
I looked at Darrell's site and it seemed to me that the tool is presented
"Square On" rather than like a bowl gouge (with the flute facing direction
of cut)
How well should it keep its edge? Does it need a lot of sharpening.
Thank you in advance for any information.

Tom

Tom
I need to redo those pages on the Oland tool. That lies somewhere in the
"when I have time " basket. Big basket :-) 3/16" is pretty aggressive, 1/4"
might be a better first one, but it should work well. I use a regular
grindstone with no problem; aluminum oxide, 80 grit. White stones wear too
fast for me and with the small tip on a 3/16" they would groove in a hurry.
The tip should be high speed steel and no different to grind/sharpen than
any other tool.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"Tom Dougall" wrote in message
...
I have just made my first oland tool using a 3/16 lathe tool.
I have a few questions I hope BB members can answer for me.
I ruined a grind stone trying to grind it, must I use a special stone or
should the tool be treated in some way before and after grinding?
I looked at Darrell's site and it seemed to me that the tool is presented
"Square On" rather than like a bowl gouge (with the flute facing direction
of cut)
How well should it keep its edge? Does it need a lot of sharpening.
Thank you in advance for any information.

Tom

"Darrell Feltmate" writes:


I need to redo those pages on the Oland tool. That lies somewhere in the
"when I have time " basket. Big basket :-) 3/16" is pretty aggressive, 1/4"
might be a better first one, but it should work well. I use a regular
grindstone with no problem; aluminum oxide, 80 grit. White stones wear too
fast for me and with the small tip on a 3/16" they would groove in a hurry.
The tip should be high speed steel and no different to grind/sharpen than
any other tool.

Darrel, have you tried different profiles?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom Dougall wrote:
I have just made my first oland tool using a 3/16 lathe tool.
I have a few questions I hope BB members can answer for me.
I ruined a grind stone trying to grind it, must I use a special stone or
should the tool be treated in some way before and after grinding?
I looked at Darrell's site and it seemed to me that the tool is presented
"Square On" rather than like a bowl gouge (with the flute facing direction
of cut)
How well should it keep its edge? Does it need a lot of sharpening.
Thank you in advance for any information.

Tom


I have a 3/16, a 1/4 and a curved one (bought the tip from Packard
Woodworks). I use the straight ones for roughing, the curved one for
hollowing under a incurved lip. It is rounded profile.
I found they stay sharp as long or longer than regular HSS bowl
gouges. One advantage in roughing is if it finds a nail you didn't
know was there, it shaves it off with no damage to itself.
I haven't got good enough with it to use it for finish turning, other
than hollowing.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

We are born naked, wet and hungry.
Then things get worse.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:21:05 GMT, "Tom Dougall"
wrote:

I have just made my first oland tool using a 3/16 lathe tool.
I have a few questions I hope BB members can answer for me.
I ruined a grind stone trying to grind it, must I use a special stone or
should the tool be treated in some way before and after grinding?
I looked at Darrell's site and it seemed to me that the tool is presented
"Square On" rather than like a bowl gouge (with the flute facing direction
of cut)
How well should it keep its edge? Does it need a lot of sharpening.
Thank you in advance for any information.

Tom

Tom.. the bit you're using is HSS, not carbide tip, right?
(never overlook the obvious)

I sharpen all my 1/4" HSS bits on a 100 grit wheel, same as any tool..

I have been sharpening them IN the tool, but just watched a sharpening DVD that
the AAW sent years ago and saw a neat trick that I'll use:

The guy used a small block of wood about 3" x 2" and 3/4" thick, with a 1/4" (or
whatever size) dado down the length and the end cut to his preferred 45 degree
angle..
He just presses a bit in, lays the block on the tool rest of the grinder and
sharpens it, then goes through all his dull bits at once..

I'm making a jig this afternoon because I have several Oland handles and a
variety of shapes on the bits.. "normal", pointed, tiny round scraper, left &
right skew/scrapers, etc..

They seem to keep an edge much longer than a gouge, partly because they're more
of an angled scraper than a cutting edge.. I've cut through a small nail in a
log and not nicked the bit, so they're pretty tough..
They're my 1st choice for roughing because I don't want to cut
sand/rock/nail/whatever bark with a good gouge.. Also because you really have to
try hard to get a catch with an Oland..

I've turned a few bowls using just the Oland, but more for practice.. They'll
never replace a swept wing bowl gouge, IMHO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Bruce
I tend to stick with a 45* angle although I have used 30* and 60* for some
uses, especially cuts along some bowl bottoms. Generally I have used a
rounded tip or one with the sides brought back similar to an Irish grind on
a bowl gouge. All have worked for various cuts. There are a couple of videos
I have put on youtube under DarrellSF that show some cuts with the Oland
(and other tools) as well as on Round Opinions. These might help some.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"Bruce Barnett" wrote in message
...
"Darrell Feltmate" writes:


I need to redo those pages on the Oland tool. That lies somewhere in the
"when I have time " basket. Big basket :-) 3/16" is pretty aggressive,
1/4"
might be a better first one, but it should work well. I use a regular
grindstone with no problem; aluminum oxide, 80 grit. White stones wear
too
fast for me and with the small tip on a 3/16" they would groove in a
hurry.
The tip should be high speed steel and no different to grind/sharpen than
any other tool.

Darrel, have you tried different profiles?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Darrell,
I have watched what you do with an Oland tool on your bowls a couple
times, and it is the same thing that I do with my scrapers. The main
difference is that my scrapers are 1 1/4 wide, and 3/8 thick. I take
bigger shavings. My angle is closer to 75 degrees (rather blunt). I
don't really think my scrapers keep an edge better than a gouge. I do
think that they will take a nail better because of the angle, and the
bulk of the tool. This is similar to a bimetal blade on my bandsaw. It
takes nails better than the softer metals. The more I use the
scrapers, the better I like them. I am now even getting finish shear
cuts with them. Always experimenting.
robo hippy

On Jan 20, 6:30*pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Bruce
I tend to stick with a 45* angle although I have used 30* and 60* for some
uses, especially cuts along some bowl bottoms. Generally I have used a
rounded tip or one with the sides brought back similar to an Irish grind on
a bowl gouge. All have worked for various cuts. There are a couple of videos
I have put on youtube under DarrellSF that show some cuts with the Oland
(and other tools) as well as on Round Opinions. These might help some.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadahttp://aroundthewoods.comhttp://roundopinions.blogspot.com"Bruce Barnett" wrote in message

...

"Darrell Feltmate" writes:

I need to redo those pages on the Oland tool. That lies somewhere in the
"when I have time " basket. Big basket :-) 3/16" is pretty aggressive,
1/4"
might be a better first one, but it should work well. I use a regular
grindstone with no problem; aluminum oxide, 80 grit. White stones wear
too
fast for me and with the small tip on a 3/16" they would groove in a
hurry.
The tip should be high speed steel and no different to grind/sharpen than
any other tool.

Darrel, have you tried different profiles?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

"Darrell Feltmate" writes:


I tend to stick with a 45* angle although I have used 30* and 60* for some
uses, especially cuts along some bowl bottoms. Generally I have used a
rounded tip or one with the sides brought back similar to an Irish grind on
a bowl gouge. All have worked for various cuts. There are a couple of videos
I have put on youtube under DarrellSF that show some cuts with the Oland
(and other tools) as well as on Round Opinions. These might help some.

Thanks. I started making one, or two, but haven't had a lot of
experience so far.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Yes mac the tool is HSS. I made a pretty spectacular groove in my grinding
wheel with it but it seems from the other posts its because of the small
size of the tool(3/16"). Since ten a friend of mine sharpened it on a
diamond disc for me, perfect results and no damage to the disk.

Tom
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:21:05 GMT, "Tom Dougall"

wrote:

I have just made my first oland tool using a 3/16 lathe tool.
I have a few questions I hope BB members can answer for me.
I ruined a grind stone trying to grind it, must I use a special stone or
should the tool be treated in some way before and after grinding?
I looked at Darrell's site and it seemed to me that the tool is presented
"Square On" rather than like a bowl gouge (with the flute facing direction
of cut)
How well should it keep its edge? Does it need a lot of sharpening.
Thank you in advance for any information.

Tom

Tom.. the bit you're using is HSS, not carbide tip, right?
(never overlook the obvious)

I sharpen all my 1/4" HSS bits on a 100 grit wheel, same as any tool..

I have been sharpening them IN the tool, but just watched a sharpening DVD
that
the AAW sent years ago and saw a neat trick that I'll use:

The guy used a small block of wood about 3" x 2" and 3/4" thick, with a
1/4" (or
whatever size) dado down the length and the end cut to his preferred 45
degree
angle..
He just presses a bit in, lays the block on the tool rest of the grinder
and
sharpens it, then goes through all his dull bits at once..

I'm making a jig this afternoon because I have several Oland handles and a
variety of shapes on the bits.. "normal", pointed, tiny round scraper,
left &
right skew/scrapers, etc..

They seem to keep an edge much longer than a gouge, partly because they're
more
of an angled scraper than a cutting edge.. I've cut through a small nail
in a
log and not nicked the bit, so they're pretty tough..
They're my 1st choice for roughing because I don't want to cut
sand/rock/nail/whatever bark with a good gouge.. Also because you really
have to
try hard to get a catch with an Oland..

I've turned a few bowls using just the Oland, but more for practice..
They'll
never replace a swept wing bowl gouge, IMHO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

In article ,
"Tom Dougall" wrote:

Yes mac the tool is HSS. I made a pretty spectacular groove in my grinding
wheel with it but it seems from the other posts its because of the small
size of the tool(3/16"). Since ten a friend of mine sharpened it on a
diamond disc for me, perfect results and no damage to the disk.

If you made a groove in your grinding wheel, you have a technique issue
to resolve. You should not be jamming the bit into one part of the wheel
- you should be grinding the bit across the full face of the wheel,
moving it as you work, and never pressing all that hard. Not so little
that it bounces, but not cutting grooves in the wheel, either.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

If you made a groove in your grinding wheel, you have a technique issue
to resolve. You should not be jamming the bit into one part of the wheel
- you should be grinding the bit across the full face of the wheel,
moving it as you work, and never pressing all that hard. Not so little
that it bounces, but not cutting grooves in the wheel, either.

I agree. It seems there might be a couple of grinding errors. When
using a grinder (bench or hand held) to sharpen anything, it is not
the amount of pressure you apply to the object being sharpened. You
want to use a "soft" (couldn't think of a better descriptor) touch.
You should try to build as little heat into the tool as possible. If
you are grinding it to red hot, you've messed up. Also, second
problem, you should use the entire width of the grinding wheel. Use a
back and forth motion across the face of the wheel.
Third, what you describe as ruined, might only need to be dressed. You
can purchase a grinding wheel dressing tool (less than $10 at most big
home supply warehouses) that when used correctly will remove the
groove yo described and give you a new flat grinding face to work
with.

JD

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:40:37 GMT, "Tom Dougall"
wrote:

Yes mac the tool is HSS. I made a pretty spectacular groove in my grinding
wheel with it but it seems from the other posts its because of the small
size of the tool(3/16"). Since ten a friend of mine sharpened it on a
diamond disc for me, perfect results and no damage to the disk.

I'd guess that you were at too aggressive an angle or too low on the wheel,
Tom..
I sharpen mine on the wheel all the time, though I did have a gouge slip out of
it's jig a few weeks ago and mark the center of the wheel for me..

The jig I built yesterday works well, after the first failure..

I don't have a tool rest on the grinder because I use a jig, so the 1" belt
grinder that I use to sharpen scrapers works a lot better with the block of wood
with a slot for the bit..

Since I have the belt sander table set at about -3 degrees for scrapers, I
tapered the block to 48 degrees... that gives me about 45 degrees on the Olands
without moving the table, as I sharpen scrapers several times a day..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Makes sense to me Charlie. I like to sharpen to 45* and cut with the tool
more than scrape, but either works. I have abunch of 3/8" thick HSS that a
friend gave me that I have to make into scrapers one of these days.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:40:37 GMT, "Tom Dougall"

wrote:

Yes mac the tool is HSS. I made a pretty spectacular groove in my
grinding
wheel with it but it seems from the other posts its because of the small
size of the tool(3/16"). Since ten a friend of mine sharpened it on a
diamond disc for me, perfect results and no damage to the disk.

I'd guess that you were at too aggressive an angle or too low on the
wheel,
Tom..
I sharpen mine on the wheel all the time, though I did have a gouge slip
out of
it's jig a few weeks ago and mark the center of the wheel for me..

The jig I built yesterday works well, after the first failure..

I don't have a tool rest on the grinder because I use a jig, so the 1"
belt
grinder that I use to sharpen scrapers works a lot better with the block
of wood
with a slot for the bit..

Since I have the belt sander table set at about -3 degrees for scrapers, I
tapered the block to 48 degrees... that gives me about 45 degrees on the
Olands
without moving the table, as I sharpen scrapers several times a day..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I agree that a 1/4 in. bit is plenty aggressive (as small as needed) for
an Oland (eponym for an inserted bit tool). I couldn't resist Darrell,
forgive me. I didn't know Oland, but I've heard of both their
contributions to woodturning. Anyway, following your tutorial, Oland
tools are fun to make and they can cut, scrape and inbetween.

Since these shop made tools are inexpensive, I wonder if cobalt HSS is
worth the difference? Does cobalt add enough extra edge keeping to
warrant the extra cost?

I don't think that trueing and dressing grinding wheels is emphasized
enough. Afterall they are not burnishing tools. We worry about frequent
sharpening of our lathe tools, the color of the wheels etc. and forget
to sharpen the sharpener.

I do have a gray wheel for shaping and a white wheel for sharpening on a
1725 rpm grinder with a shopmade "wolverine' under the white. Most of my
tool handles are long enough that I can keep a narrow platform over the
jig without interfering.


The other end of an angled bit Oland Tool, ie. with the sharpened end at
about 7 - 8 o'clock looking down on the shaft sometimes works as well
under a rim as a swan neck. /|


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:22:24 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Makes sense to me Charlie. I like to sharpen to 45* and cut with the tool
more than scrape, but either works. I have abunch of 3/8" thick HSS that a
friend gave me that I have to make into scrapers one of these days.

I actually BROKE an Oland tool today, Darrell....
My own fault, as most things like this are.. I got a catch while turning one of
your damn wing bowls... First thought was "How in the world did I get a catch
with an Oland?

It's the first one that I made and 2 problems combined to cause it, so I thought
I'd pass it on..

The steel had apparently fatigued around the hole for the bit.. I never thought
to check this, even after a lot of hard use for a few years..

I kept pulling the bit out and sharpening it, like it was 2 feet long and would
never run out.. It appears that the set screw was either at the extreme end of
the bit or not even completely on it..

So, what I suspect happened, is that the bit shifted a little, allowing the tip
to point down.. that angle caused a slight catch, which caused the steel on the
bottom of the tool to bend down and break..

No drama, but when I went to repeat the cut, I noticed that there was no bit in
the tool..DUH..

I'll check both tool condition and bit length from now on...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I hear you Mac. I seem to have a small collection of too short Oland tips.
No idea what I will ever do with them but I do not seem to throw them away.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:22:24 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Makes sense to me Charlie. I like to sharpen to 45* and cut with the tool
more than scrape, but either works. I have abunch of 3/8" thick HSS that
a
friend gave me that I have to make into scrapers one of these days.

I actually BROKE an Oland tool today, Darrell....
My own fault, as most things like this are.. I got a catch while turning
one of
your damn wing bowls... First thought was "How in the world did I get a
catch
with an Oland?

It's the first one that I made and 2 problems combined to cause it, so I
thought
I'd pass it on..

The steel had apparently fatigued around the hole for the bit.. I never
thought
to check this, even after a lot of hard use for a few years..

I kept pulling the bit out and sharpening it, like it was 2 feet long and
would
never run out.. It appears that the set screw was either at the extreme
end of
the bit or not even completely on it..

So, what I suspect happened, is that the bit shifted a little, allowing
the tip
to point down.. that angle caused a slight catch, which caused the steel
on the
bottom of the tool to bend down and break..

No drama, but when I went to repeat the cut, I noticed that there was no
bit in
the tool..DUH..

I'll check both tool condition and bit length from now on...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Arch
I tried a cobalt cutter but did not notice any difference in the edge
holding. However, this is entirely speculative with no figures to back it
up.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"Arch" wrote in message
...

I agree that a 1/4 in. bit is plenty aggressive (as small as needed) for
an Oland (eponym for an inserted bit tool). I couldn't resist Darrell,
forgive me. I didn't know Oland, but I've heard of both their
contributions to woodturning. Anyway, following your tutorial, Oland
tools are fun to make and they can cut, scrape and inbetween.

Since these shop made tools are inexpensive, I wonder if cobalt HSS is
worth the difference? Does cobalt add enough extra edge keeping to
warrant the extra cost?

I don't think that trueing and dressing grinding wheels is emphasized
enough. Afterall they are not burnishing tools. We worry about frequent
sharpening of our lathe tools, the color of the wheels etc. and forget
to sharpen the sharpener.

I do have a gray wheel for shaping and a white wheel for sharpening on a
1725 rpm grinder with a shopmade "wolverine' under the white. Most of my
tool handles are long enough that I can keep a narrow platform over the
jig without interfering.


The other end of an angled bit Oland Tool, ie. with the sharpened end at
about 7 - 8 o'clock looking down on the shaft sometimes works as well
under a rim as a swan neck. /|


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:42:15 -0500, (Arch) wrote:


I agree that a 1/4 in. bit is plenty aggressive (as small as needed) for
an Oland (eponym for an inserted bit tool). I couldn't resist Darrell,
forgive me. I didn't know Oland, but I've heard of both their
contributions to woodturning. Anyway, following your tutorial, Oland
tools are fun to make and they can cut, scrape and inbetween.

Since these shop made tools are inexpensive, I wonder if cobalt HSS is
worth the difference? Does cobalt add enough extra edge keeping to
warrant the extra cost?

Mine are 5% cobalt and I have no idea if it makes a difference.. They're just
the only ones that Grizzly sells.. I don't see any real difference between them
and the ones that I bought originally from harbor Freight that were made in
India, but there could be..

I wouldn't pay more for better bits, because I change the grind a lot, depending
on what cut I need at the moment... Sometimes a scraper, sometimes a skew,
sometimes round nose, etc...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:07:08 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

I hear you Mac. I seem to have a small collection of too short Oland tips.
No idea what I will ever do with them but I do not seem to throw them away.

ROFL.. I have about 8 or so on a magnet on my chisel rack.. No idea what, if
anything I'll use them for or even why I save them..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing