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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Hello all,
Well, now I've gone and done it- I bought and loaded up a lathe today. I won't say what I paid for it, but I could afford it, and I'm a po' boy. You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. What I've got now is a gigantic Forster 6 station turret lathe, with 4 chucks, (at least some of the parts for) a bar feeder, and about 200-300 pounds of accessories, ranging from a box of tool bits to a couple of boring bar holders bigger than I can recall ever seeing the likes of. * note * the chucks I'm referring to aren't even remotely in the class of a woodturning one- the one I'm looking at right now is 15" in diameter, and slightly under 4" thick, and has an eyebolt threaded into it to lift it into place using a chain hoist. I didn't measure it yet, but my rough estimate is that it's about 24" deep, and about 6 feet long with the turret moved all the way forward (it was locked in place for transport, so I didn't crank it out to see what the full length capacity is.) The passthrough (also not measured yet) is about 2" in diameter. It's a heck of a neat old machine- evidently, it was decomissioned in 1945, and stored since then. There's some surface rust, but as far as I could tell, everything moves freely and all of the essentials are there, with the exception of a motor large enough to drive it. It's one of the old kind that was driven with a 3" leather belt connected to a series of pulleys (the pulley assembly is largely intact as well, including the wall mounts for it) There is plenty of stuff that came along with it that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm sure with a little time and effort it will all become clear. My intention is to get it up and running as a functional engine lathe, but in the event that that is impossible for some reason (though I really doubt that will be the case) It's going to make one heck of a bowl turner. Should be a fun project- I always like being able to restore something that old and make it work again. I don't know if it's old enough to be a museum piece, but it's certainly a remnant of bygone days. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
at that age, you'd be surprised how little horsepower came out of a pretty
large motor - look for a used 3 to 5 hp motor and run the motor with a VFD and you will be happy - I presume you have a back gear in it. "Prometheus" wrote in message ... Hello all, Well, now I've gone and done it- I bought and loaded up a lathe today. I won't say what I paid for it, but I could afford it, and I'm a po' boy. You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. What I've got now is a gigantic Forster 6 station turret lathe, with 4 chucks, (at least some of the parts for) a bar feeder, and about 200-300 pounds of accessories, ranging from a box of tool bits to a couple of boring bar holders bigger than I can recall ever seeing the likes of. * note * the chucks I'm referring to aren't even remotely in the class of a woodturning one- the one I'm looking at right now is 15" in diameter, and slightly under 4" thick, and has an eyebolt threaded into it to lift it into place using a chain hoist. I didn't measure it yet, but my rough estimate is that it's about 24" deep, and about 6 feet long with the turret moved all the way forward (it was locked in place for transport, so I didn't crank it out to see what the full length capacity is.) The passthrough (also not measured yet) is about 2" in diameter. It's a heck of a neat old machine- evidently, it was decomissioned in 1945, and stored since then. There's some surface rust, but as far as I could tell, everything moves freely and all of the essentials are there, with the exception of a motor large enough to drive it. It's one of the old kind that was driven with a 3" leather belt connected to a series of pulleys (the pulley assembly is largely intact as well, including the wall mounts for it) There is plenty of stuff that came along with it that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm sure with a little time and effort it will all become clear. My intention is to get it up and running as a functional engine lathe, but in the event that that is impossible for some reason (though I really doubt that will be the case) It's going to make one heck of a bowl turner. Should be a fun project- I always like being able to restore something that old and make it work again. I don't know if it's old enough to be a museum piece, but it's certainly a remnant of bygone days. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:55:43 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote: at that age, you'd be surprised how little horsepower came out of a pretty large motor - look for a used 3 to 5 hp motor and run the motor with a VFD and you will be happy - I presume you have a back gear in it. I haven't dug into it yet, but I know there is back gearing in it, as well as a big pail of other gears, which I am guessing are used to manually change the tpi (wild speculation at this point- they could just be spare gears, or even from something else entirely). As noted, there is no exisiting motor, so obtaining a 5hp was my plan, though if I run across a good 3hp for the right price, I may give that a try- I can always use it for something else if it seems to be underpowered. Since It's got all the belt pully goodies with it, I'm not too concerned about getting one that matches the machine, as it could be almost anywhere (within reason) and does not need to be attached directly to the lathe. A quick search came up with a number of places that still make and sell seamless belts, so using the belt feed shouldn't be a problem. I'm also somewhat enamored with the idea of making a steam engine for a second power option- not because it would be very practical or particularly efficent, but it would be awfully neat on such an old piece of machinery, and a good project to get to know the tool. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Prometheus wrote:
Hello all, Well, now I've gone and done it- I bought and loaded up a lathe today. I won't say what I paid for it, but I could afford it, and I'm a po' boy. You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. What I've got now is a gigantic Forster 6 station turret lathe, with 4 chucks, (at least some of the parts for) a bar feeder, and about 200-300 pounds of accessories, ranging from a box of tool bits to a couple of boring bar holders bigger than I can recall ever seeing the likes of. * note * the chucks I'm referring to aren't even remotely in the class of a woodturning one- the one I'm looking at right now is 15" in diameter, and slightly under 4" thick, and has an eyebolt threaded into it to lift it into place using a chain hoist. I didn't measure it yet, but my rough estimate is that it's about 24" deep, and about 6 feet long with the turret moved all the way forward (it was locked in place for transport, so I didn't crank it out to see what the full length capacity is.) The passthrough (also not measured yet) is about 2" in diameter. It's a heck of a neat old machine- evidently, it was decomissioned in 1945, and stored since then. There's some surface rust, but as far as I could tell, everything moves freely and all of the essentials are there, with the exception of a motor large enough to drive it. It's one of the old kind that was driven with a 3" leather belt connected to a series of pulleys (the pulley assembly is largely intact as well, including the wall mounts for it) There is plenty of stuff that came along with it that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm sure with a little time and effort it will all become clear. My intention is to get it up and running as a functional engine lathe, but in the event that that is impossible for some reason (though I really doubt that will be the case) It's going to make one heck of a bowl turner. Should be a fun project- I always like being able to restore something that old and make it work again. I don't know if it's old enough to be a museum piece, but it's certainly a remnant of bygone days. My lawn mower repairman has one like that in his shop. It looks like it weighs more than my house. I keep expecting it to crunch through the concrete slab and descend into the underworld. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA The pen is mightier than the pencil. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Sounds Like what my wife said when I brought home an old Walker turner
industrial drill press she wanted to know where I was going to put it. I found a spot in my garage/woodshop "Gerald Ross" wrote in message . .. Prometheus wrote: Hello all, Well, now I've gone and done it- I bought and loaded up a lathe today. I won't say what I paid for it, but I could afford it, and I'm a po' boy. You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. What I've got now is a gigantic Forster 6 station turret lathe, with 4 chucks, (at least some of the parts for) a bar feeder, and about 200-300 pounds of accessories, ranging from a box of tool bits to a couple of boring bar holders bigger than I can recall ever seeing the likes of. * note * the chucks I'm referring to aren't even remotely in the class of a woodturning one- the one I'm looking at right now is 15" in diameter, and slightly under 4" thick, and has an eyebolt threaded into it to lift it into place using a chain hoist. I didn't measure it yet, but my rough estimate is that it's about 24" deep, and about 6 feet long with the turret moved all the way forward (it was locked in place for transport, so I didn't crank it out to see what the full length capacity is.) The passthrough (also not measured yet) is about 2" in diameter. It's a heck of a neat old machine- evidently, it was decomissioned in 1945, and stored since then. There's some surface rust, but as far as I could tell, everything moves freely and all of the essentials are there, with the exception of a motor large enough to drive it. It's one of the old kind that was driven with a 3" leather belt connected to a series of pulleys (the pulley assembly is largely intact as well, including the wall mounts for it) There is plenty of stuff that came along with it that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm sure with a little time and effort it will all become clear. My intention is to get it up and running as a functional engine lathe, but in the event that that is impossible for some reason (though I really doubt that will be the case) It's going to make one heck of a bowl turner. Should be a fun project- I always like being able to restore something that old and make it work again. I don't know if it's old enough to be a museum piece, but it's certainly a remnant of bygone days. My lawn mower repairman has one like that in his shop. It looks like it weighs more than my house. I keep expecting it to crunch through the concrete slab and descend into the underworld. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA The pen is mightier than the pencil. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Damn I hate that, have to do it over again :-(
Hi Jesse I typed a whole page it seems (I'm a very slow typist ;-) also) and it went in that black hole again, darn. Anyway I started turning on a similar lathe, just a few feet longer, total length over 12 feet long. My Dad had bought that lathe at a shipyard bankruptcy sale around 1930. It had a 4 or 5 stepped flat belt pulley, it's been a while ;-)), there was a split main shaft, that is a inner and outer that could be locked/unlocked and a secondary shaft with gears on both ends could be cantilevered in to the gears of the main shaft, so you would get another 4 or 5 speeds extra low. If you want to use the old setup, should work just fine, and would also keep everything original, if you're interested in that. They used 2 belts one flipped a half turn and the other one just normal, those would run on 3 side by side pulleys, the center one was narrower than the 2 other ones and it was the driving pulley, the 2 other pulleys are idler pulleys, the belts have a 2 forked (belt mover I'll call them) that sit on a shaft and are adjustable side ways, and there is a handle you could reach that would move the forks both ways, so one way would be forward drive for the lathe and the other way reverse. The original motor that came with the lathe was and still ?? is used (last time that I was there, was a few years ago) it is a 2 HP 3 phase 380 Volt open cage motor. The belt from the motor would run to the main power distributing shafts larger pulley, where the 2 flat belts pulley also was clamped to, (most of the old pulleys where made in 2 halves so you could add or remove them from the long shafts that where commonly used), ours had only the forging hammer connected to it. Changing of carriage speed was by manually changing/exchanging the gears around, the lathe did have automatic feed and cross feed, reason for a couple fixed change gears :-((. If you don't want to use the old setup, you could use a multi-v belt to run on the flat belt pulleys, but you might run to fast by directly going and probably need a jack shaft. Anyway a nice project to work on, good luck with it. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo On Sep 1, 9:25 pm, Prometheus wrote: Hello all, Well, now I've gone and done it- I bought and loaded up a lathe today. I won't say what I paid for it, but I could afford it, and I'm a po' boy. You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. What I've got now is a gigantic Forster 6 station turret lathe, with 4 chucks, (at least some of the parts for) a bar feeder, and about 200-300 pounds of accessories, ranging from a box of tool bits to a couple of boring bar holders bigger than I can recall ever seeing the likes of. * note * the chucks I'm referring to aren't even remotely in the class of a woodturning one- the one I'm looking at right now is 15" in diameter, and slightly under 4" thick, and has an eyebolt threaded into it to lift it into place using a chain hoist. I didn't measure it yet, but my rough estimate is that it's about 24" deep, and about 6 feet long with the turret moved all the way forward (it was locked in place for transport, so I didn't crank it out to see what the full length capacity is.) The passthrough (also not measured yet) is about 2" in diameter. It's a heck of a neat old machine- evidently, it was decomissioned in 1945, and stored since then. There's some surface rust, but as far as I could tell, everything moves freely and all of the essentials are there, with the exception of a motor large enough to drive it. It's one of the old kind that was driven with a 3" leather belt connected to a series of pulleys (the pulley assembly is largely intact as well, including the wall mounts for it) There is plenty of stuff that came along with it that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm sure with a little time and effort it will all become clear. My intention is to get it up and running as a functional engine lathe, but in the event that that is impossible for some reason (though I really doubt that will be the case) It's going to make one heck of a bowl turner. Should be a fun project- I always like being able to restore something that old and make it work again. I don't know if it's old enough to be a museum piece, but it's certainly a remnant of bygone days. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:05:01 -0700, "
wrote: Damn I hate that, have to do it over again :-( Hi Jesse I typed a whole page it seems (I'm a very slow typist ;-) also) and it went in that black hole again, darn. Anyway I started turning on a similar lathe, just a few feet longer, total length over 12 feet long. My Dad had bought that lathe at a shipyard bankruptcy sale around 1930. It had a 4 or 5 stepped flat belt pulley, it's been a while ;-)), there was a split main shaft, that is a inner and outer that could be locked/unlocked and a secondary shaft with gears on both ends could be cantilevered in to the gears of the main shaft, so you would get another 4 or 5 speeds extra low. This one's got something I haven't quite got figured out, though it may be similar to what you're describing- there's a big handle that pulls a ring (maybe the pulleys, but it's still sitting on a trailer 50 miles away, so I can't go check until next weekend when I bring it home...) over a lever on the main drive shaft. When the lever is free, the drive pullies turn easily by hand- when the lever is held down, it still turns relatively easily, but everything seems to slow down. I thought it was a clutch at first, but it must be to run it extra low. If you want to use the old setup, should work just fine, and would also keep everything original, if you're interested in that. They used 2 belts one flipped a half turn and the other one just normal, those would run on 3 side by side pulleys, the center one was narrower than the 2 other ones and it was the driving pulley, the 2 other pulleys are idler pulleys, the belts have a 2 forked (belt mover I'll call them) that sit on a shaft and are adjustable side ways, and there is a handle you could reach that would move the forks both ways, so one way would be forward drive for the lathe and the other way reverse. Yeah, I think I'm going to use as much of the old setup as possible, just for the novelty of it if nothing else. So what you're saying is that all three of the steps on the pulley had belts on them? If that's the case, would you flip the second step pulley the opposite way to keep the ratios the same? It was my assumption that the steps worked the same way as on a modern lathe, where you could pick any pair of steps to get a different range of speeds. The original motor that came with the lathe was and still ?? is used (last time that I was there, was a few years ago) it is a 2 HP 3 phase 380 Volt open cage motor. The belt from the motor would run to the main power distributing shafts larger pulley, where the 2 flat belts pulley also was clamped to, (most of the old pulleys where made in 2 halves so you could add or remove them from the long shafts that where commonly used), ours had only the forging hammer connected to it. Assuming that I don't have a three-phase converter (and that's a real good assumption to make,) what do you think a guy could get away with using a 220v motor? I'd like to avoid investing in a 3-phase setup, at least for now when it'd only be used for one tool. Maybe in a few years if I've got a little extra money or a good opportunity to get a machining center secondhand the 3-ph converter will make more sense. Changing of carriage speed was by manually changing/exchanging the gears around, the lathe did have automatic feed and cross feed, reason for a couple fixed change gears :-((. That explains the bucket of gears- I figured that was what they were for. That should be a bit of goofing around right there to figure out which combinations correspond to various tpi counts. I'm thinking that color-coding the center of the gears might not be a bad idea. If you don't want to use the old setup, you could use a multi-v belt to run on the flat belt pulleys, but you might run to fast by directly going and probably need a jack shaft. Nah, I think I'll stick with the old setup, since it's still there. Kind of like the oilers it comes with- a guy could probably find zirc fittings that might be easier to work with, but they just don't look as neat as the old brass oilers. Anyway a nice project to work on, good luck with it. Thanks! |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Jesse the step pulleys (2 of them) have just one belt, and that belt
you do move to change speeds. No the 3 pulleys I meant are the same size and right next to each other, 2 outside ones turn freely on the shaft, centre on is solid to the shaft. Your lathe have babbit bearings ??, ours had rings hanging in the oil baths that would turn with the shaft, and continually oiled the shaft, the oil would come back through the grooves in the bronze bearings into the oil bath, very good system for slow speed machinery. If any more questions just ask, I'll help if I can. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo On Sep 4, 2:13 am, Prometheus wrote: On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:05:01 -0700, " wrote: Damn I hate that, have to do it over again :-( Hi Jesse I typed a whole page it seems (I'm a very slow typist ;-) also) and it went in that black hole again, darn. Anyway I started turning on a similar lathe, just a few feet longer, total length over 12 feet long. My Dad had bought that lathe at a shipyard bankruptcy sale around 1930. It had a 4 or 5 stepped flat belt pulley, it's been a while ;-)), there was a split main shaft, that is a inner and outer that could be locked/unlocked and a secondary shaft with gears on both ends could be cantilevered in to the gears of the main shaft, so you would get another 4 or 5 speeds extra low. This one's got something I haven't quite got figured out, though it may be similar to what you're describing- there's a big handle that pulls a ring (maybe the pulleys, but it's still sitting on a trailer 50 miles away, so I can't go check until next weekend when I bring it home...) over a lever on the main drive shaft. When the lever is free, the drive pullies turn easily by hand- when the lever is held down, it still turns relatively easily, but everything seems to slow down. I thought it was a clutch at first, but it must be to run it extra low. If you want to use the old setup, should work just fine, and would also keep everything original, if you're interested in that. They used 2 belts one flipped a half turn and the other one just normal, those would run on 3 side by side pulleys, the center one was narrower than the 2 other ones and it was the driving pulley, the 2 other pulleys are idler pulleys, the belts have a 2 forked (belt mover I'll call them) that sit on a shaft and are adjustable side ways, and there is a handle you could reach that would move the forks both ways, so one way would be forward drive for the lathe and the other way reverse. Yeah, I think I'm going to use as much of the old setup as possible, just for the novelty of it if nothing else. So what you're saying is that all three of the steps on the pulley had belts on them? If that's the case, would you flip the second step pulley the opposite way to keep the ratios the same? It was my assumption that the steps worked the same way as on a modern lathe, where you could pick any pair of steps to get a different range of speeds. The original motor that came with the lathe was and still ?? is used (last time that I was there, was a few years ago) it is a 2 HP 3 phase 380 Volt open cage motor. The belt from the motor would run to the main power distributing shafts larger pulley, where the 2 flat belts pulley also was clamped to, (most of the old pulleys where made in 2 halves so you could add or remove them from the long shafts that where commonly used), ours had only the forging hammer connected to it. Assuming that I don't have a three-phase converter (and that's a real good assumption to make,) what do you think a guy could get away with using a 220v motor? I'd like to avoid investing in a 3-phase setup, at least for now when it'd only be used for one tool. Maybe in a few years if I've got a little extra money or a good opportunity to get a machining center secondhand the 3-ph converter will make more sense. Changing of carriage speed was by manually changing/exchanging the gears around, the lathe did have automatic feed and cross feed, reason for a couple fixed change gears :-((. That explains the bucket of gears- I figured that was what they were for. That should be a bit of goofing around right there to figure out which combinations correspond to various tpi counts. I'm thinking that color-coding the center of the gears might not be a bad idea. If you don't want to use the old setup, you could use a multi-v belt to run on the flat belt pulleys, but you might run to fast by directly going and probably need a jack shaft. Nah, I think I'll stick with the old setup, since it's still there. Kind of like the oilers it comes with- a guy could probably find zirc fittings that might be easier to work with, but they just don't look as neat as the old brass oilers. Anyway a nice project to work on, good luck with it. Thanks! |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this
is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. Well, rec.crafts.metalworking also has a good bunch of guys who enjoy stuff like this. Also, from http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ try the "Antique Machinery and History" forum... --Glenn Lyford |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:47:41 -0000, "
wrote: You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. Well, rec.crafts.metalworking also has a good bunch of guys who enjoy stuff like this. They do? Not to be argumentative, but I've never seen more than one post a month on there when I've looked- and it'e generally an unanswered post from a new guy. Maybe it's just my news server. Also, from http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ try the "Antique Machinery and History" forum... I'll check that out- I'm bound to run into stuff I've never seen before as I get into this. Thanks for the link. --Glenn Lyford |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
Well, you could always look into phase converting. I know it's
possible using a second electric motor in some capacity. Just do a google search for "converting to three phase power" and see if you can find a manufacturer or some instructions on how to do it. I know it's possible because it's been done on farms where they might have equipment that needs 3 phase power but the electic company only supplies single or dual phase. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
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#14
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
something is wrong if you only see a few posts a month - I see around 130
per day on the metalworking news group - make sure you found the right one, there are several with similar names. you want the rec.crafts one, not alt anything "Prometheus" wrote in message ... On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:47:41 -0000, " wrote: You might wonder why it's a neener, as we've all got lathes, but this is a *big* one. Technically, this one's OT because it's an engine lathe, but this is the only lathe forum going. Well, rec.crafts.metalworking also has a good bunch of guys who enjoy stuff like this. They do? Not to be argumentative, but I've never seen more than one post a month on there when I've looked- and it'e generally an unanswered post from a new guy. Maybe it's just my news server. Also, from http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ try the "Antique Machinery and History" forum... I'll check that out- I'm bound to run into stuff I've never seen before as I get into this. Thanks for the link. --Glenn Lyford -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT
On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 22:33:41 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote: something is wrong if you only see a few posts a month - I see around 130 per day on the metalworking news group - make sure you found the right one, there are several with similar names. you want the rec.crafts one, not alt anything Hmm... maybe I *did* have the wrong one- I doubled checked just now, and there are over 130,000 headers. Maybe it was just a temporary problem- it's been a long while since I bothered to check. |
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