Hello all,

As I've been contemplating selling my Midi lathe, and want to give the
guy who is interested in it sort of a head start on using it, I've
been contemplating making a starter set of turning tools at work to
send along with the lathe.

There are a couple of big questions, and I'm hoping at least one or
two of you have some ideas about this.

First off, the material choices are pretty much limited to cold rolled
steel, stainless steel and aluminum. I'm thinking Aluminum can be
safely dismissed as a suitable material for a cutting tool, and I know
the steel would work- but I'm really most interested in the idea of
using 7 ga. stainless. The flutes for the gouges will be pressed on
a 100 ton brake, and probably not tempered, unless I get really
abitious and feel like playing with my torch. Cutting the steel is
trivial, so no worries there. I'll probably just make a thin wedge
similar to a file on the end to press it into the handles. The gouges
*could* be milled, but that would require purchasing material and then
wasting a good bit of it milling it out.

I know that I could buy HSS or some other tool steel, but the carbon
steel and the stainless can be had for free from the scrap bin, which
is very appealing in something I intend to give away as a starter set.

So does anyone have any stainless steel cutting tools? I'm interested
in how well they hold an edge, and how sharp they get, as well as any
other points of interest about it. I don't recall ever seeing SST
turning tools for sale, but they might be nice- especially considering
the fact that they won't rust if set in a pile of damp shavings.

Of course, I'm contemplating making another set for myself as well-
but if there is some particular reason I'm not aware of regarding the
material and why it might be poorly suited to the task, I may as well
not waste it and stick with the carbon steel that I know will take a
keen edge.

I'm fairly sure it would work great- but it's always good to bounce
ideas off someone else.

If you're doing it simply because you can then great, but I should think
that the carbon steel would hold a better edge. Problem is, your friend
is going to ruin them pretty quickly when he tries to sharpen them. Upon
ruining them he'll never get a clean cut and may perhaps become
disillusioned with this hobby. Buy him a cheap set of HSS tools from HF
or someplace like that if you want to be nice to the guy, and try making
your own carbon and stainless tools for yourself. Sounds like fun, and a
nice use of scrap material.

J.

Prometheus wrote:
Hello all,

As I've been contemplating selling my Midi lathe, and want to give the
guy who is interested in it sort of a head start on using it, I've
been contemplating making a starter set of turning tools at work to
send along with the lathe.

There are a couple of big questions, and I'm hoping at least one or
two of you have some ideas about this.

First off, the material choices are pretty much limited to cold rolled
steel, stainless steel and aluminum. I'm thinking Aluminum can be
safely dismissed as a suitable material for a cutting tool, and I know
the steel would work- but I'm really most interested in the idea of
using 7 ga. stainless. The flutes for the gouges will be pressed on
a 100 ton brake, and probably not tempered, unless I get really
abitious and feel like playing with my torch. Cutting the steel is
trivial, so no worries there. I'll probably just make a thin wedge
similar to a file on the end to press it into the handles. The gouges
*could* be milled, but that would require purchasing material and then
wasting a good bit of it milling it out.

I know that I could buy HSS or some other tool steel, but the carbon
steel and the stainless can be had for free from the scrap bin, which
is very appealing in something I intend to give away as a starter set.

So does anyone have any stainless steel cutting tools? I'm interested
in how well they hold an edge, and how sharp they get, as well as any
other points of interest about it. I don't recall ever seeing SST
turning tools for sale, but they might be nice- especially considering
the fact that they won't rust if set in a pile of damp shavings.

Of course, I'm contemplating making another set for myself as well-
but if there is some particular reason I'm not aware of regarding the
material and why it might be poorly suited to the task, I may as well
not waste it and stick with the carbon steel that I know will take a
keen edge.

I'm fairly sure it would work great- but it's always good to bounce
ideas off someone else.

I think it is a nice thought to provide the fellow with tools to use
with his lathe that you are selling him; however, the materials that
you have available are not really suitable for making turning tools.
Aluminum and cold rolled steel are totally unsatisfactory as turning
tools. I do not believe that stainless steel would make a very good
turning tool either. I have seen some stainless steel kitchen knives
that were fair, but they never did sharpen extremely well. I would
recommend that you suggest that he buy the high speed steel set of
turning tools from Harbor Freight to go with his new lathe.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

Prometheus wrote:
Hello all,

As I've been contemplating selling my Midi lathe, and want to give the
guy who is interested in it sort of a head start on using it, I've
been contemplating making a starter set of turning tools at work to
send along with the lathe.

There are a couple of big questions, and I'm hoping at least one or
two of you have some ideas about this.

First off, the material choices are pretty much limited to cold rolled
steel, stainless steel and aluminum. I'm thinking Aluminum can be
safely dismissed as a suitable material for a cutting tool, and I know
the steel would work- but I'm really most interested in the idea of
using 7 ga. stainless. The flutes for the gouges will be pressed on
a 100 ton brake, and probably not tempered, unless I get really
abitious and feel like playing with my torch. Cutting the steel is
trivial, so no worries there. I'll probably just make a thin wedge
similar to a file on the end to press it into the handles. The gouges
*could* be milled, but that would require purchasing material and then
wasting a good bit of it milling it out.

I know that I could buy HSS or some other tool steel, but the carbon
steel and the stainless can be had for free from the scrap bin, which
is very appealing in something I intend to give away as a starter set.

So does anyone have any stainless steel cutting tools? I'm interested
in how well they hold an edge, and how sharp they get, as well as any
other points of interest about it. I don't recall ever seeing SST
turning tools for sale, but they might be nice- especially considering
the fact that they won't rust if set in a pile of damp shavings.

Of course, I'm contemplating making another set for myself as well-
but if there is some particular reason I'm not aware of regarding the
material and why it might be poorly suited to the task, I may as well
not waste it and stick with the carbon steel that I know will take a
keen edge.

I'm fairly sure it would work great- but it's always good to bounce
ideas off someone else.

On 11 Nov 2006 09:27:39 -0800, "Fred Holder"
wrote:

I think it is a nice thought to provide the fellow with tools to use
with his lathe that you are selling him; however, the materials that
you have available are not really suitable for making turning tools.
Aluminum and cold rolled steel are totally unsatisfactory as turning
tools. I do not believe that stainless steel would make a very good
turning tool either. I have seen some stainless steel kitchen knives
that were fair, but they never did sharpen extremely well. I would
recommend that you suggest that he buy the high speed steel set of
turning tools from Harbor Freight to go with his new lathe.

Hmmm... Well, I do have a small set of cheap ones that are carbon
steel I could let go with the lathe as well. They make nice clean
cuts, but they're thin and a little flimsy. If stainless kitchen
knives won't take a good edge, it's probably not worth messing with
for turning tools. I've had stainless knives in the past, but they
were the serrated Ginsu style, which (of course) I never tried to
sharpen. I'll probably just try making a scraper for myself to test
the material out, and see how that goes.

Any thoughts on the carbon steel if it is tempered? The guy I'm
selling the lathe to works with me, and would actually be the one
pressing the gouges after I laser cut them if we do this, so I'm sure
he's competant to heat and quench them a few times. I'll pass along
the HF idea, too- I just know I had a bit of sticker shock when it
came time to buy lathe accesories when I started, considering I had
just spent all my money buying the lathe itself.

Prometheus
All stainless steel is not dreated equal. Surprise! (read that sarcastically
please :-)) I have some stainless kitchen knifes that were terrible, some
that were good and a couple of A440 stainless pocket and hunting knives that
are fabulous. They take and hold a great edge.
High carbon steel is easy to temper. Cold rolled steel is low carbon and
useless to temper. check what you have available. Actually, if you heat a
piece to red hot and immediately quench it and then try to file it you have
an easy test. If it files it is not worth tempering. If the file skates go
for it. Old but good method.
Have fun.
On the other hand I make my tools because it is cheap fun. A beginner's set
of tools can be relatively inexpensive and the fun is then in the turning.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com

Most grades of stainless are too soft for tools. Unless you have a
hard grade, they will not hold an edge.
The same is true for low carbon steels. You could heat treat the steel
to harden it, but that is just a case hardening. The first time you
grind, you remove the hard case and you are back into the softer steel.
Brad

I found this on the metalworking group some time ago. It's called
Superquench. I'm no metallurgist, but perhaps it would/could be
helpful in this situation. Or perhaps I'm typing out my ass.



This mixture is reported to harden mild steel and will harden
hypereutectoid alloys to the point where they become dangerously
brittle.

It is the user's responsibility to provide due care when employing this
mixture.

Superquench:
1. 5 lbs salt
2. 28 oz Dawn blue dishwashing detergent
3. 8 oz Jet Dry or other rinsing aid
4. Water to complete 5 gallons of the mixture

This is reported to "age" in the bucket athough some smiths report
being able to sustain the mix by using a tight cover.


So there.
-Phil Crow

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:23:19 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Prometheus
All stainless steel is not dreated equal. Surprise! (read that sarcastically
please :-)) I have some stainless kitchen knifes that were terrible, some
that were good and a couple of A440 stainless pocket and hunting knives that
are fabulous. They take and hold a great edge.
High carbon steel is easy to temper. Cold rolled steel is low carbon and
useless to temper. check what you have available. Actually, if you heat a
piece to red hot and immediately quench it and then try to file it you have
an easy test. If it files it is not worth tempering. If the file skates go
for it. Old but good method.

I did a little research on this, the only problem is that what I've
got to work with no longer has a material code on it- we've just got
it marked according to gauge and finish in the bin. But I will try
the method you've suggested, that's a good one. My guess is it's 304,
though that's bound to change depending the job the scrap was used
for. Looks like a quick test with a magnet will tell me if I'm right
about that one- if not, it'll be the tempering test. What I know off
hand is that when it is cut with the laser, it does not have a carbon
edge like steel does, and it very difficult to file or grind. It is
very ductable, and is weldable. I can't for the life of me remember
if it is responsive to magnets or not. I know the burrs are sharp
enough to cut fingers like a scalpel if they come off the shear with
an edge on them (thankfully, not too common an occurance.)

Have fun.
On the other hand I make my tools because it is cheap fun. A beginner's set
of tools can be relatively inexpensive and the fun is then in the turning.

I'll be making the test ones not only because it's fun, (which it
likely will be) but easy as well. Shouldn't take more than one lunch
break to get them all cut and the gouges broke, then it's just a
matter of grinding the cutting edges- something we all have to do
anyway. The one I'm particularly interested in for myself is a
captured ring tool or two- I'm not too keen on buying one for such a
limited application, but making one might be awfully fun.

That super quench is another form of case hardening. Great until you
need to sharpen and grind thru the case.
Also 304 is too soft for cutting tools. You will continually need to
resharpen.
Brad

On 16 Nov 2006 09:25:44 -0800, "Brad" wrote:

That super quench is another form of case hardening. Great until you
need to sharpen and grind thru the case.
Also 304 is too soft for cutting tools. You will continually need to
resharpen.

You are right- I tried a bit of scrap, ground and sharpened it to a
razor edge, and it cut beautifully- for about 2 minutes. After that,
it was about as good as a butterknife.

But it's interesting to note that the 304 is highly recommended for
metal spinning. Definately something for me to play with- just not in
the way I initially thought.

On Nov 12, 10:39 am, wrote:
I found this on the metalworking group some time ago. It's called
Superquench. I'm no metallurgist, but perhaps it would/could be
helpful in this situation. Or perhaps I'm typing out my ass.

This mixture is reported to harden mild steel and will harden
hypereutectoid alloys to the point where they become dangerously
brittle.

Quenching in brine is more severe than quenching in plain water, which
is more severe than quenching in oil. It will harden a low carbon
steel somewhat, but to nowhere near the hardness you want for a cutting
tool. For that, you need more carbon. You can add carbon to the
surface of low carbon steel through casehardening, but that involves
adding the carbon to hot steel - not during the quench.

John Martin

Right on John, nobody can make hard cutting metal by super quick
cooling lead or other........
Have fun and take care
leo Van Der Loo


John wrote:
On Nov 12, 10:39 am, wrote:
I found this on the metalworking group some time ago. It's called
Superquench. I'm no metallurgist, but perhaps it would/could be
helpful in this situation. Or perhaps I'm typing out my ass.

This mixture is reported to harden mild steel and will harden
hypereutectoid alloys to the point where they become dangerously
brittle.

Quenching in brine is more severe than quenching in plain water, which
is more severe than quenching in oil. It will harden a low carbon
steel somewhat, but to nowhere near the hardness you want for a cutting
tool. For that, you need more carbon. You can add carbon to the
surface of low carbon steel through casehardening, but that involves
adding the carbon to hot steel - not during the quench.

John Martin