Hello all,

I helped my dad frame and raise a barn yesterday, and we used some
100+ yr old ironwood that he had salvaged from a larger old barn. The
beams are 4"x6" and were about 12' long. They weren't "pretty" but
they sure have some character. After cutting several of the posts and
some of the beams, there are a number of 4' lengths I was considering
squaring and turning to make bed posts.

Here's the rub- this stuff is insanely hard, and I have to cart it 30
miles to get it home. I don't want to end up with a bunch of old
scraps I can't turn, but sometimes the lathe makes light work of
things that are really tough to drive a spike into.

So, has anyone turned this stuff? Right now, they look like railroad
ties with ancient whitewash on them so I can't see the grain, and I
haven't got any of them here yet. Even if it's hard to do, is it
worth turning- or would I just be voluntarily aquiring junk to take up
valuable shop space?

Prometheus wrote in
:

Hello all,

I helped my dad frame and raise a barn yesterday, and we used some
100+ yr old ironwood that he had salvaged from a larger old barn. The
beams are 4"x6" and were about 12' long. They weren't "pretty" but
they sure have some character. After cutting several of the posts and
some of the beams, there are a number of 4' lengths I was considering
squaring and turning to make bed posts.

Here's the rub- this stuff is insanely hard, and I have to cart it 30
miles to get it home. I don't want to end up with a bunch of old
scraps I can't turn, but sometimes the lathe makes light work of
things that are really tough to drive a spike into.

So, has anyone turned this stuff? Right now, they look like railroad
ties with ancient whitewash on them so I can't see the grain, and I
haven't got any of them here yet. Even if it's hard to do, is it
worth turning- or would I just be voluntarily aquiring junk to take up
valuable shop space?



Two thoughts:

A handplane might help you see what the wood looks like under the
whitewash. Don't use your best one, BTW.

And 'ironwood' is a phrase that covers a lot of (sometimes) pretty
different species. Rather like 'oak'.

I'd probably drag some home, although probably a smaller piece, and have
a whack at it, before loading up the trailer.

Patriarch

I don't know where you are, but unless you are somewhere in the
soutwest area of the US, it probably isn't actually "Ironwood" but more
likely just harder than hell.

Real ironwood is almost never that big because it is a desert tree, and
even a large tree from many years ago would have trouble supplying a
beam of the porportion you describe.

On the other hand, if it is indeed the real thing, you should get all
you can haul as it is quite valuable, and you should be able to get a
fortune for it if you can mill it into pen blanks, handle blanks, and
carving blanks.

The stuff I see (only in small pieces) is hard, dense, and slightly
oily. However, it is a favorite wood of the traditional Mexican
craftsmen ( I live in San Antonio, Texas) to carve as it carves quite
well with little splintering.

I couldn't even guess what a log that size might weigh... 200 pounds?
More?

I like Patriarch's idea. Take a piece home, chuck it up and cut into
it and see what you have. If you like it, grab it.

Robert

Hi Prometheus

The name Iron wood is used for all kinds of wood worldwide, tropical
and and north temperate zone trees.

In N America the ironwood name for trees is used for the Hophornbeam,
(Ostrya Virginiana), grows from E Texas up to SE Manitoba and east of
that from N Florida to Cape Breton Island, sizes op to 50' tall and 12"
D, occasionally larger.

The name is also used sometimes for the American Hornbeam (Carpinus
Caroliniana) also called (Blue Beech) they are usually smaller and
crooked trees up to 30' tall and 12"D

I have turned some Hornbeam and Hophorn beam, however it was green
wood, not 100 Year old and dry, still have some in the shop somewhere.

Mine was dense wood, kind of plain and light colored, and it turned
very well, real nice for tool handles and small stuff like whistles
tops etc., my wood was no larger than 4" or 5"D, it takes a very long
time up here to grow a hophornbeam tree to a bigger size.

It is a very high quality wood IMO and I would certainly haul it home
and use it.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Prometheus

The name Iron wood is used for all kinds of wood worldwide, tropical
and and north temperate zone trees.

In N America the ironwood name for trees is used for the Hophornbeam,
(Ostrya Virginiana), grows from E Texas up to SE Manitoba and east of
that from N Florida to Cape Breton Island, sizes op to 50' tall and 12"
D, occasionally larger.


That would be the one, most likely. Now if you order Pao Ferro (any
guesses?) you'll have something else.

Tree grows slowly even when it's not in the understory, so it'll be pretty
close-grained. If a jobber drops an ironwood log of sufficient size, it
normally goes out with the hard maple, which it closely resembles after
sawing. Just tighter and harder.

My splitting maul and sledge have ironwood handles, and it makes a great
replacement handle for a wheelbarrow. Unless you want to turn it for
sentimental reasons, it won't turn you on as much by difference as off by
toughness.

I looked into the word "Ironwood" a few years ago out of curiosity and
spent a few hours googling, there are at least five species in the US
with that name, and I found about 35 trees worldwide that go by that
name.

At any rate, be prepared to have to re-grind your tools. I tried
turning some dry eucalyptus once and the chips felt like BB's on my
skin, and the tool edge was junk after just a few minutes. Your beams
may be similar, but it's probably really beautiful.

The name Iron wood is used for all kinds of wood worldwide, tropical
and and north temperate zone trees.

In N America the ironwood name for trees is used for the Hophornbeam,
(Ostrya Virginiana), grows from E Texas up to SE Manitoba and east of
that from N Florida to Cape Breton Island, sizes op to 50' tall and 12"
D, occasionally larger.

The name is also used sometimes for the American Hornbeam (Carpinus
Caroliniana) also called (Blue Beech) they are usually smaller and
crooked trees up to 30' tall and 12"D

This shows what most of us have learned, that tree names in the US are often
wrong or confusing. European settlers misnamed trees because they reminded them
of a tree 'back home.' Now we have a mess of names. Maples that aren't
maples. Cedars that aren't cedars. And colloquial names like 'dunno what it is,
but its as hard as iron..."

A good resource to cut through this mish-mash is the Audubon Society Field Guide
to North American Trees.

Dan

On Thu, 11 May 2006 21:18:22 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

I recently got a bunch of pen blanks that are "desert ironwood".. maybe not the
same??

Anyway, it turned nicely.. I really prefer a harder surface because it holds a
shape nicely.. good character and surprising color inside..

AFAIK, it's also a fairly expensive wood in turning blank form..

Hello all,

I helped my dad frame and raise a barn yesterday, and we used some
100+ yr old ironwood that he had salvaged from a larger old barn. The
beams are 4"x6" and were about 12' long. They weren't "pretty" but
they sure have some character. After cutting several of the posts and
some of the beams, there are a number of 4' lengths I was considering
squaring and turning to make bed posts.

Here's the rub- this stuff is insanely hard, and I have to cart it 30
miles to get it home. I don't want to end up with a bunch of old
scraps I can't turn, but sometimes the lathe makes light work of
things that are really tough to drive a spike into.

So, has anyone turned this stuff? Right now, they look like railroad
ties with ancient whitewash on them so I can't see the grain, and I
haven't got any of them here yet. Even if it's hard to do, is it
worth turning- or would I just be voluntarily aquiring junk to take up
valuable shop space?

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 11 May 2006 20:14:34 -0700, wrote:

I don't know where you are, but unless you are somewhere in the
soutwest area of the US, it probably isn't actually "Ironwood" but more
likely just harder than hell.

Real ironwood is almost never that big because it is a desert tree, and
even a large tree from many years ago would have trouble supplying a
beam of the porportion you describe.

On the other hand, if it is indeed the real thing, you should get all
you can haul as it is quite valuable, and you should be able to get a
fortune for it if you can mill it into pen blanks, handle blanks, and
carving blanks.

The stuff I see (only in small pieces) is hard, dense, and slightly
oily. However, it is a favorite wood of the traditional Mexican
craftsmen ( I live in San Antonio, Texas) to carve as it carves quite
well with little splintering.

I couldn't even guess what a log that size might weigh... 200 pounds?
More?

I like Patriarch's idea. Take a piece home, chuck it up and cut into
it and see what you have. If you like it, grab it.

Robert

ADDED CAUTION: Use your stud finder/metal detector first!! DAMHIKT

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Fri, 12 May 2006 06:41:43 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


That would be the one, most likely. Now if you order Pao Ferro (any
guesses?) you'll have something else.


George... funny that you mention pao ferro..
I was given a dozen 1x1x12" blanks of it as part of my recent "gloat"...

I've turned one piece as a sort of test and it seems to turn very well and have
a nice look, sort of like bubinga....

Is this related to ironwood?
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 May 2006 06:41:43 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


That would be the one, most likely. Now if you order Pao Ferro (any
guesses?) you'll have something else.


George... funny that you mention pao ferro..
I was given a dozen 1x1x12" blanks of it as part of my recent "gloat"...

I've turned one piece as a sort of test and it seems to turn very well and
have
a nice look, sort of like bubinga....

Is this related to ironwood?

The name means "iron tree" in Portuguese.

"George" George@least wrote in message
...

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 May 2006 06:41:43 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


That would be the one, most likely. Now if you order Pao Ferro (any
guesses?) you'll have something else.


George... funny that you mention pao ferro..
I was given a dozen 1x1x12" blanks of it as part of my recent "gloat"...

I've turned one piece as a sort of test and it seems to turn very well
and have
a nice look, sort of like bubinga....

Is this related to ironwood?

The name means "iron tree" in Portuguese.


OK, iron bread. why do they have so many trees called bread?

As others have said, there are many woods referred to as Ironwood. They are
called by that name because they are hard dense timbers. I've turned just about
every spieces of Ironwood available in the United States. Desert Ironwood and
Lignum viate (sp?) are both beautiful woods. One thing you have to remember when
turning the very hard woods such as the ironwoods, boxwood, African Blackwood,
etc. is that the normal turning tools which most of us use regularly do not work
especially well with these timbers. The tools that the ancient hardwood and
ivory turners used worked very well. These are for the most part scrapers with
smaller cutting tips. Scrapers used on these hardwoods should have the burr
honed off and they will produce shavings like you can normally obtain from a
gouge or skew chisel. The woods will dull your gouges and skew chisels very
quickly, but a scraper with the burr honed off will cut beautifully. If the wood
is as hard as you say, I would grab all that I could get my hands on. However,
as someone else noted, watch for nails on old recycled timbers they will raise
havoc with the edges of your turning tools.

The article on sharpening at my web site:
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/article3.htm has pictures of hardwood
turning tools and will give you some idea of what you'll need to turn that
ironwood when you get it home.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article , Prometheus says...

Hello all,

I helped my dad frame and raise a barn yesterday, and we used some
100+ yr old ironwood that he had salvaged from a larger old barn. The
beams are 4"x6" and were about 12' long. They weren't "pretty" but
they sure have some character. After cutting several of the posts and
some of the beams, there are a number of 4' lengths I was considering
squaring and turning to make bed posts.

Here's the rub- this stuff is insanely hard, and I have to cart it 30
miles to get it home. I don't want to end up with a bunch of old
scraps I can't turn, but sometimes the lathe makes light work of
things that are really tough to drive a spike into.

So, has anyone turned this stuff? Right now, they look like railroad
ties with ancient whitewash on them so I can't see the grain, and I
haven't got any of them here yet. Even if it's hard to do, is it
worth turning- or would I just be voluntarily aquiring junk to take up
valuable shop space?



--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

On 12 May 2006 09:21:52 -0700, Fred Holder
wrote:

The tools that the ancient hardwood and
ivory turners used worked very well. These are for the most part scrapers with
smaller cutting tips. Scrapers used on these hardwoods should have the burr
honed off and they will produce shavings like you can normally obtain from a
gouge or skew chisel. The woods will dull your gouges and skew chisels very
quickly, but a scraper with the burr honed off will cut beautifully.

First off, thanks to all for your input- especially the bit about the
scrapers.

I kind of thought that "Ironwood" was a loosely used term, so perhaps
this will narrow it down. When we cut the ends off with the chainsaw,
the wood had dense annual rings that showed a sharp contrast between a
milk-chocolate color and black. The oddball thing about it was that
there were frequent nodules about 3/8" in diameter in the end grain
that looked a bit like the ray flecks in quartersawn oak- heck, it
could even be oak, though I've never noticed ray flecks in the
endgrain before.

I think I have encountered this stuff before, picking up scraps
loggers had left in the forest, and still haven't been able to
identify it, though I did determine that it was impossible (for me) to
hollow. Though now that I am recalling it, it turned ok between
centers- at least, I was able to make a tenon and mount it in the
chuck.

The barn came from west-central Wisconsin, and the wood is (as
previously noted) about 100 years old.

Though I guess now I don't have much of a choice- I mentioned the
possibility of making bedposts out of it to my wife, and I doubt
she'll let me get out of doing it now. Hopefully, it isn't too much
to deal with!

A follow up:

After laboriously going through a ton and a half of pictures on
Google, I think I've identified the stuff. The end grain looks like
the pictures I found of the end grain of Black Locust.

So, I'm going to call it that- good enough for free wood, anyhow.

Prometheus wrote in
:

A follow up:

After laboriously going through a ton and a half of pictures on
Google, I think I've identified the stuff. The end grain looks like
the pictures I found of the end grain of Black Locust.

So, I'm going to call it that- good enough for free wood, anyhow.



It should make a really nice set of bed posts...

Patriarch

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 21:18:22 -0500, Prometheus
wrote:

I recently got a bunch of pen blanks that are "desert ironwood".. maybe
not the
same??

Anyway, it turned nicely.. I really prefer a harder surface because it
holds a
shape nicely.. good character and surprising color inside..

AFAIK, it's also a fairly expensive wood in turning blank form..
===============
Mac,
Desert ironwood is similar to mesquite and is found in the southern border
states from Texas to California. In some Mexican states it's used for
turnings and carving, but the living trees are protected by the Gov't.
Carvers can only use trees that are dead or fallen.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.