Well, Can you make a profit turning? I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest. Pen
makers seem to be a dime a dozen at the crafts shows and craft show people
don't seem to want to dig too deep into their wallet. Ebay isn't much
different.

See my solution.for 2 to 6K net a month.

--
Art Ransom
Lancaster , Texas

www.turningaround.org

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:32:01 -0500, "russ498"
wrote:

Well, Can you make a profit turning? I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest.

Russ,

There is so much dependent on where you live, the kind of clientele
you might run into, what local tastes are, your skill level, the kinds
fo things you like to turn. You really have to experiment with your
customers. The best bet is to find two or three things you can turn
well and fairly quickly and cheaply and turn a bunch of them. Take
them to a show and see how they sell. Re-stock and do some more
shows. See is there are trends and if the results are consistent.
Then drop at least one of the things and concentrate on the one or two
items that sell the best. "Do one thing, and do it very well," makes
some sense.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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Well, there's profit and there's walking around change. You decide.

In our club we have a turner that turns easily on national level
quality. He has taken all the classes... Raffan, Hosoluk, Batty, Owen,
etc. And it shows. He is really a gifted turner and the classes
really enhanced his talents. So we got to talking one day about his
offerings in Santa Fe gallery (he makes traditional looking seed pots
and Navajo water jugs for them) so I could see if I needed to look into
this for myself.

Sale price of the jug: $ 900 (woohoo! jackpot!)
Gallery take: 40% or $ 360
Cost of blank (if he can get away with just one to work down to his 1/4
wall
thickness without blowout): ~ $85
Finishing materials (Klingpoor sand paper, finishes, rags, polishes,
etc.): $20
Wear and tear on all the the tools: $10
Lights on in the shop, lathe electricity: $10
Cost to ship to the gallery, fully insured including shipping
materials: $40

He figures about 40 hours or more in each of these. That means he is
making a little over nine dollars and hour for these. But.... he gets
a 1099 from the gallery, so that really means that since he pays all
his own taxes, he is making about $ 6.95 per hour.

Additionally, if the gallery doesn't sell his piece in 90 days, they
take lower his price 10%. If it doesn't sell after that, he has to pay
to have it shipped back (another $40).

He is going to quit selling, and go back to turning for fun. Too much
work, hassle and paperwork for him to think it is worthwhile.

As for me, I have a good business selling oil lamps and candle lamps.
I take my old stuff and glue it up, raid the firewood pile, and do
anything else that looks interesting for a lamp. I get about $30 to
$50 a piece for them and only sell them to folks I know. It IS
seasonal, but I still sell about 20 or so a year so it keeps me in new
tools, wood, glue, and pays for Christmas. Each lamp takes about an
hour to two hours to make, I buy the fit ups for about $2-$3, and
haven't bought any project dedicated wood yet. This works out to about
$25 an hour or so, but again, it is only seasonal.

I also sell desk clocks, Christmas ornaments, etc. I don't make pens
or bottle stoppers as they have gotten so cheap they aren't worth
fooling with anymore.

If I were smart, I would turn all this stuff all year instead of
starting in November. I never have enough time to get it all done.
And since it is seasonal, Nov/Dec is really the only time I sell and
people buy.

That craft show/church bizarre/charity auction/county fair road looks
way too rough for me. Too many of my comrades have lost their ass on
it for me to be interested.

Good luck at whatever you do with your new interest and let us know how
you are doing.

Robert

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
"Do one thing, and do it very well," makes
some sense.


Sounds like work, not fun.

Do anything you fancy and see if it sells.

My return is already "banked" before we go out to sell things. That just
pays bills.

agreed.

I've started selling stuff partially to make room for more turnings and
partially to see what people like. I keep the prices low enough so they
sell but high enough to recover some of the cost of the wood etc. My
best stuff I don't sell because my wife claims it sometimes before I can
finish it.

Another question is how much is my Saturday worth to me? $50? $100? If
I can buy a chisel or fill the gas tank with one saturday's work that
sounds like a good rate of return to me. Otherwise why bother because
my first goal is to enjoy my hobby.

The alternative is to use my turnings to heat the house.

George wrote:
"Chuck" wrote in message
...
"Do one thing, and do it very well," makes

some sense.



Sounds like work, not fun.

Do anything you fancy and see if it sells.

My return is already "banked" before we go out to sell things. That just
pays bills.

Old Joke: "how do you make a small fortune at woodturning? Start with a
large fortune and turn until it's a small one".
On the serious side: If the objective is to make money, and for you,
russ498, this must be important , anyone is better off to suck it up and
take a part time job at any of the big box stores. An acquaintance, gov't
scientist(early retirement) make $15.00 /hour as a greeter/security person
at a local grocery store. No equipment to buy, no wood dust to clean up
and he get paid for every hour that he puts in.
When I retire, I think I'm going to look into getting one of those
Government jobs so that I don't have to worry about putting food on the
table either. Does anybody know of any openings for a forensic
psychologist.

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:32:01 -0500, "russ498" wrote:

Well, Can you make a profit turning? I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest. Pen
makers seem to be a dime a dozen at the crafts shows and craft show people
don't seem to want to dig too deep into their wallet. Ebay isn't much
different.

For most people, I'd say no... unless you either have the equipment already or
don't factor it into the cost of making the product...

There are some very gifted people starving to death and some that (IMHO) are
gifted turners and also gifted sales/promotional people that seem to be doing
very well...

As you get a "name", the route seems to be adding classes, books, etc....

I sell a few of the things that I'm tired of dusting or moving around, but I
can't really imagine making a "living" or "profit" at it...

I would guess that my investment in lathes, tools, supporting machines like band
saw, chain saw, etc., has to be over $5,000... that's a LOT of $20 to $50 bowls,
even if the wood, finish, etc. is free... (I wish it was)

That said, you never can tell what life is going to throw at you... I made over
$300 this month from sales at an "honor system" at a local school's break room..
and it was all stuff that I did a year or so ago and thought really sucked..
*lol*
That's not bad, IMO, since there is no expense for a booth, travel, food, etc...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
I made over
$300 this month from sales at an "honor system" at a local school's break
room..
and it was all stuff that I did a year or so ago and thought really
sucked..
*lol*
That's not bad, IMO, since there is no expense for a booth, travel, food,
etc...



You were lucky, though, to tell the truth, It was pretty well-known that
anyone who wanted it could take the bowl, too, when I brought the treat.
Sometimes the bowl was stolen before the candy or cookies it contained were
gone. I still have teachers stop by at a local show I do to continue the
collection of ornaments they began back then. I usually charge for them
now, of course.

russ498 wrote:
Well, Can you make a profit turning? I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest. Pen
makers seem to be a dime a dozen at the crafts shows and craft show people
don't seem to want to dig too deep into their wallet. Ebay isn't much
different.

I would answer your prime question by saying yes.

But it is hard work and takes a while to figure out how to make it work
for you. By that I mean finding the right balance between what you can
make and what customers want, at a price that works for you and the
customer is willing to pay, at a sales venue you are willing to work and
customers will use, and in sufficient volumes that you can handle but
will at least pay your overheads. "I don't have to worry about putting
food on the table" is perhaps not the best place to be starting. Or it
could be the best place. It depends on what you want to make (or what
you are able and willing to make), and how you want to sell it.

Selling at craft shows, my own studio, making inexpensive items in large
volumes, then market like hell works for me. But if I didn't need the
income really badly, I doubt that I would be able to stick at making the
same thing day after day. And that is what I have found it takes to
efficiently produce sufficient quantites at the right price.

If I didn't really need the income, could risk an irregular cash flow,
and was seeking more to satisfy my creative urges, I would be looking
towards the high-end creative side of turning, and looking at getting
into galleries and exhibitions. That is not easy either. It all depends
what you want out of life, or even why you feel that you want to sell
your work in the first place.


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Russ,
There are 3 main ways to sell your work;
One is the Arts and Craft shows. There are a couple of show guides out
there that rate the shows for type (there is a difference between arts
and crafts), average sales, attendance, how to get in, etc. You do all
of the work, and take all of the money. Shows can be a lot of fun. You
have to like to travel and talk to people. It is a very social thing.
There is a real science to picking out the right shows. My high show
last year was over $4,000. My low show was about $500. Average is
probably less than $2,000. Two big shows a month is a lot of
work.Custom orders is big part of the business. I still have to get a
web site. I can't see doing just the internet sales, both for reasons
of volume, and boredom. I like to deal with people face to face.
Two is to sell to the galleries. Few will buy outright, wanting to do
the consignment bit, taking 40 to 60% depending. Since I never have any
extra stock that I don't need for shows, and I don't discount my prices
much for wholesale, I don't have anything in the galleries, even though
I have been approached a number of times.
The other way is to have an agent who reps your stuff to buyers. I
don't know much about this method, but do have 2 friends who use this
method. For one, it is his only method of sales. For the other, he does
this, and goes to shows.
I was a semi-pro for about 10 years. That means that I made enough
money to support my habbit, and to pay some bills, but not enough to
quit the day job. I now am professional, doing the wood full time.
Quitting concrete construction was a good move reguardless. I make
furniture, boxes, and lots of turning. I don't think that I could make
a go of it with just turning, or the other wood work, but the
combination of the two seems to be working. I do have some supplemental
income, so I don't have to survive on the wood alone. Could I survive
on the wood alone? Probably. Being self employed has its draw backs,
primarily twice the working hours for the same pay and not being able
to whine about the boss. I do love what I do, which is why I do it. I
hope to supplement the work part with teaching and doing demos. That is
just as much fun as watching the shavings fly.
If you are one of the exceptional few who get to be famous, perhaps you
can make a lot of money. You can make enough to supplement your income
without too much trouble. If you want to make a living at it, you
really have to work at it.
robo hippy

The question is not can you make money at woodturning. There are a lot of
very good turners that make a very good living at turning. The question is
do you want to start a business or hobby.

If you are starting a hobby with plans on making a little money on the side
that is all you will probably make (a little money).

If you want to start a business it will take an investment and more than a
little time, but it can be done. There are a few turners out there that
make 6 figures. It can be done.

Me I give most of my work away.

Henry Doolittle

"russ498" wrote in message
...
Well, Can you make a profit turning? I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest. Pen
makers seem to be a dime a dozen at the crafts shows and craft show people
don't seem to want to dig too deep into their wallet. Ebay isn't much
different.

Jo-Anne;

You are WAY off base. Money means little to me. W/O getting into
particulars, if I never make another dime, I'm good. I am more than
comfortable finacially. I would rather give stuff away to friends and
family just for the pure joy, than sell to someone who doesn't really
appreciate the work. I'm just looking to find out what I can make
profitably. If I can't profit as a professional, I will give it away as a
hobbiest, with a smile. I would really love to make enough selling to pay
for the stuff I give away or donate to charity. ps. There is nothing wrong
with working in a big box store. I have thought about working in the tool
or fishing departments just so I can jaw with some interesting folks about
stuff I love.



"Jo-Anne & Edward Tabachek" wrote in message
...
Old Joke: "how do you make a small fortune at woodturning? Start with a
large fortune and turn until it's a small one".
On the serious side: If the objective is to make money, and for you,
russ498, this must be important , anyone is better off to suck it up and
take a part time job at any of the big box stores. An acquaintance, gov't
scientist(early retirement) make $15.00 /hour as a greeter/security
person at a local grocery store. No equipment to buy, no wood dust to
clean up and he get paid for every hour that he puts in.
When I retire, I think I'm going to look into getting one of those
Government jobs so that I don't have to worry about putting food on the
table either. Does anybody know of any openings for a forensic
psychologist.

russ498 wrote:

Well, Can you make a profit turning?

You can make a profit at _anything_ if you go about it the right way--look
at the example of the pet rock.

I'm 50 YOA and retired from a
Government job so I don't have to worry about putting food on the table.
That said, can you "turn" turning into a part time vocation that makes it
worthwhile? If so, how, where and what product line do you suggest. Pen
makers seem to be a dime a dozen at the crafts shows and craft show people
don't seem to want to dig too deep into their wallet. Ebay isn't much
different.

The hard part is establishing your product as something that people want to
buy for the price you need to charge in order to make the income you want.
In all honesty I'm not sure how to go about that--you really need to find
someone who understands marketing like you understand turning.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"russ498" wrote in message
news:gaqdnXsZiNH2Qg3enZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@cablespeedmd .com...
There is nothing wrong
with working in a big box store. I have thought about working in the tool
or fishing departments just so I can jaw with some interesting folks about
stuff I love.

You'll be able to jaw a lot on the show weekends. I pick up some good stuff
in the way of wood lore and even wood, while palavering with the men who
have been dragged to the show by the women in their life. Plus you've got
painters, potters, photographers and jewelers (my daughter's favorites)
there as well.

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:25:33 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
I made over
$300 this month from sales at an "honor system" at a local school's break
room..
and it was all stuff that I did a year or so ago and thought really
sucked..
*lol*
That's not bad, IMO, since there is no expense for a booth, travel, food,
etc...



You were lucky, though, to tell the truth, It was pretty well-known that
anyone who wanted it could take the bowl, too, when I brought the treat.
Sometimes the bowl was stolen before the candy or cookies it contained were
gone. I still have teachers stop by at a local show I do to continue the
collection of ornaments they began back then. I usually charge for them
now, of course.


yep.. that's why I sent in mostly stuff from a year or so ago.. my "stain and
poly" period...
We agreed that it was an honor system and that I wouldn't send anything that I'd
be upset losing and that she wasn't liable for any loses...
As of yesterday, her sales up to almost $400 and I'm getting a little more shelf
space in the shop.. *g*

I also decided not to send any small stuff like jars, boxes, mini-bowls, etc...
just to easy to pocket and forget paying for..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:33:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



The hard part is establishing your product as something that people want to
buy for the price you need to charge in order to make the income you want.
In all honesty I'm not sure how to go about that--you really need to find
someone who understands marketing like you understand turning.

Right on the "money"!

Very few folks have both creative and business talent...

The classic example is the great chef that opens his own place and it's packed
every night and gets great reviews... until the accountant tells him that he's
been losing money on every meal he serves...

That's what made Bill Gates so scarey... who ever heard of a computer nerd with
the business instincts of a shark.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:33:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


The hard part is establishing your product as something that people want to
buy for the price you need to charge in order to make the income you want.
In all honesty I'm not sure how to go about that--you really need to find
someone who understands marketing like you understand turning.

Right on the "money"!

Very few folks have both creative and business talent...

But not all need it. I sell my work, but have a full time day job. I
turn when I feel like it, what I feel like making. I probably gross
about $2000-$2500 a year which paid for my tools, fishing gear, and
other toys. If I got serious I could probably do an awful lot better
than that, but as it is I can still enjoy turning w/o any pressure.

I'm in a rather unique position however. I sell at a local gift shop,
mostly to tourists in the summer, but they're open all year too. I've
worked out with the lady that owns the shop that I can bring stuff in
when I get to it, and she gets to pay me when she gets to it. Works
quite well actually. Since I'm buying toys, not paying bills, it isn't
an issue to not get paid w/in 30 days. (I don't charge interest on
invoices over 30 days.)

It also means I can go fishing instead of turning if I want. Pulled in
a 68 lb. halibut this year, as well as salmon and king crab - I'd have
to sell an *awful* lot of bowls to match what I'd have to pay in the
store for that!

I try to keep the shelves stocked so she doesn't get too depleted.
Probably my best seller is potpourri dishes and salad bowls. (samples
on my web site). Also do pretty good with natural edge bowls and weed
pots. Problem with the weed pots is people like the bark on them, so
they dry in the round which causes a lot of them to crack. Some survive
though and they're a pretty quick turn.

Guess the long and short of it is I'm just spoiled! Eat your hearts out
boys. g

S'later...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357