Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

I have been using tool sold by Addis, Crown, Taylor, Sorby and Hamlets for
about 3 years.
Last year I purchased a Benjamin's Best tools, 3/4 Diamond side cutting
scrapper Benjamin's Best tools from Jacques Coulombre in Canada.
I have used this tool since. So far the quality of the HSS appears to be
the same as my other tools. The grinding sparks are identical and it keeps
it hedge as long as the other tools. The Benjamin's wood handles are not as
husky as the other I have.
When I look at my other tools all of them have the logo or stamp England.
None of them are marked "Made In England". This along with the fact that I
buy HSS tool bit its stamped made in China gives me food for thought.
The best proof is to use it and find out by yourself. I do not think that
the quality of HSS use to produce Benjamin's best is number one plus but it
is fair to midland.

"Moshe Eshel" wrote in message
oups.com...
Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

Moshe Eshel wrote:
Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

I have mostly Sorby lathe tools,needed a parting tool so I took a
chance on the Benjamins best. Very satisfied with it. I bought a set
for my grandson, tried all six chisels and gouges,work as well as the
Sorby's,sharpen the same.Go for it, I usually don't buy inexpensive
tools,you get what you pay for. But in this case I do reccomend the
Bengamins Best tools.
mike

About 3 months ago, I purchased the 1/2" and 5/8" "bowl" gouges. They were
a pretty good buy and seemed to
be well made for the money, and after regrinding to a fingernail shape they
did take and hold a good edge.
BUT they were too shallow fluted for bowl work. Worked fine as spindle
gouges.
I complained to PSI customer service and apparently others did too.

They informed me that the problem would be corrected when the new shipment
arrived around the middle of
November. They called this week to verify shipment of the new gouges and
said I did not need to return the
originals. They do stand behind their products.




"Moshe Eshel" wrote in message
oups.com...
Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

Moshe wrote:

Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?


Sadly, yes. I hate them. I have a ton of $$ in tools about , all from
England.

These do 95% as well (or AS well) as my Sorby, Crown, Hamlet, and
Taylors, and they are 25% or so of the cost. Sometimes about 30%.

They only reason I wouldn't go 100% as well is that they put the same
damn handle on just about everything. The handle are fine for the
smaller tools, but they are not near enough meat for the larger ones.
That should make the "I handle my own anyway" crowd happy, but I am
spoiled with my Taylor tools as they all have great handles on them.

The finish and polish is as good as the new Sorbys and Crown tools I
see at Woodcraft. The handles are kiln dried white ash, lacquer
dipped. I agree with Dave W's comment that they are tool shallow to
make a great bowl gouge, especially for someone like me that is used to
the "super flute" type gouges.

They are a really solid tools, even without a price price
consideration. But at those prices you can't go wrong. I now have
several of their tools and like them all.

Robert

Went to Penn State page but could find only one Benjamin...
Rest are what?? Robert, is Benjamin... critical or Penn State any OK??

TomNie

"Moshe Eshel" wrote in message
oups.com...
Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

I recognize that some of the handles on the Benjamin's best tools are not
all that great.
When I am pleased with the cutting performance of a tool and do not like the
handle I make one to suit. They do not cost me much and can be made in a
short time. I like to use ash. Then I power sand to 600 grit. Raise the
grain with water and sand again. Most of the time I apply Danish oil or
waterborne varnish.

Tom:

I think all the stuff on the site is BB tools. These are the pages I
ordered from:

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcind.html

and

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcset.html

I don't know how they will do up there in the long run, and they don't
have the really nice catalogue that Craft Supplies or Packard has, but
they have been great to work with and shipped quick with no problems.
They seem to have a full compliment of the tools in stock which is a
huge surprise since the almost always seem to be out.

Let us know how you like them if you bite.

Robert

On 27 Nov 2005 05:56:38 -0800, "Moshe Eshel" wrote:

Has anyone ever tried buying those chisels/gauges from "Penn State
Industries"?

They are pretty cheap and I wonder about their quality (after some
grinding obviously)

Thanks

I've added several of their tools and been happy with them...
Their scrapers seem very nice for the price... as a basically cheap person, I've
never used a "big name" scraper, but wonder why I would do better with one at 3
times the price?

Their bowl gouge set is a great way to get the feel of bowl gouges and I've been
very happy with them... lots of steel to sharpen away over the years and they
seem to hold an edge well...

I bought their oval skew and wasn't happy with the way it was ground, but other
than that it's a good value.. (more of a knife edge than a shew edge)

If I was going to sum it up, I'd say that they were inexpensive tools, not cheap
tools... IMO, there's a big difference..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Robert,

Thanks. Your second link was the one I spoke of with only one item titled
Benjamin's Best. Am trying to find an economical set(s) for the wife and
friends to use "and sharpen"..

In fact, I'm thinking of buying a couple minis to teach from as well. Have
to study on that a bit more. Have to get more of this house finished for the
holidays before more projects Missed finishing the fireplace for
Thanksgiving. Of course, the wife didn't mind (LOL or is that crying).

TomNie
wrote in message
oups.com...
Tom:

I think all the stuff on the site is BB tools. These are the pages I
ordered from:

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcind.html

and

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcset.html

I don't know how they will do up there in the long run, and they don't
have the really nice catalogue that Craft Supplies or Packard has, but
they have been great to work with and shipped quick with no problems.
They seem to have a full compliment of the tools in stock which is a
huge surprise since the almost always seem to be out.

Let us know how you like them if you bite.

Robert

Hi Moshe, "Who is Benjamin? What is he, that all our turners commend
him?"

It seems to me that time, freehand or jigged, spent sharpening gouges is
minimal and not wasted for most of us. I think flute shape and
bevel/edge grind are the thing, not the steel nor the maker's name.

I wonder if the current emphasis on super steels, maker's names, 'nom de
grinds' and trophy prices is becoming a little mythical. No wonder when
we hear over & over that only a xxx gouge is worth buying for use,
everything else is for beginners to practice sharpening.

If the flute, bevel, and edge of a tool is right, any steel that will
take and hold a good edge for a reasonable time will exceed my ability
to use it. I'm talking to average turners now; keep your cheap or
inexpensive gouges boys, Sears, Harbor Freight and even Benjamin
(whoever he is) will rise again!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Well said Arch. Most of my tools are home made inserted tip. Of two of my
favorite skews, one is reground from a parting tool I did not like and the
other is ground from a dollar store chisel. I seem to get a fair number of
shavings.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

I think WAAAYYY too much emphasis is place on different tool maker's
tools. And I believe they are making some of the newer turners feel
like they have to have a "so and so tool" with a "so and so" grind on
it to get anywhere. What is sad is that they are now taking regular
gouges and selling them for 30% more if they have a certain grind on
them kissed by a national turner.

I have railed about this before as I think that turning is such an
individual thing. I used to be of the camp that said to never buy a
set, as you will not use three or four of the tools you paid for.

No longer. Buy a good quality set like the BB, and grind away to get
the tools to do what you want. To me (unless they have a deep flute)
they are only a piece of tool steel stuck in a handle. I bought some
spring steel pry bars to grind into hollowers at HF, and with square
shafts, I am thinking they could be pretty damn easy to use, and cheap
too! I am now trying Darrell's Oland tool, after receiving inspiration
from his website. (Thanks Darrell!)

And after all, if you took the handle off of all the tools, what indeed
would be the difference? Some changes to the metal, to be sure, but
not too much in the HSS department. I actually corresponded with the
man who imports the BB line to the USA from China, and he also told me
it is sold under the Windsor Design name. He gave me the metal
compositions, and it is certified good stuff according to my local
machinist. (So hey.... Robert.... why aren't you selling them if you
believe in them? Well, because I had to buy a minimum of 1,000 sets,
and each individual tool was a 250 piece order!!)

I looked into these tools after going to the catalogues to look at new
tools. Can a Sorby 3/4" roughing gouge be $75? And can a 3/8" bowl
gouge be $50? A couple of more tools and you are what I paid for my
Jet mini! So as a price driven quest, I decided to try the Benjamin's
Best. That's how I found out about them.

But I have said it before, and I will say it again. If it cost then
what it cost now to turn, I wouldn't be doing it. Ten years ago there
was no Benjamin's Best. I had a set of Delta carbon tools sold at HD,
and a couple of Sorby tools. Then I bought some Henry Taylor Artisan
tools from Craft Supply. And so it goes.

But when I started, it never occurred to me to take a shot at making my
own tools. When this group was really quite lively and there were a
lot more participating members, it was a hot bed of ideas. I went to
other people's sites, read discussions and followed the threads
closely. I couldn't believe some were making their own deep fluted
gouges out of shock absorbers (rumored to be O 1 steel) run over an old
table saw with a metal cutting blade in it. I still remember when I
first went to Darrell's site, and I was stunned... a masonry nail as a
hook tool? Genius. And better, he had instructions no how to make
your own. I amy now do what they do, but they certainly fueled my
imagination to make some of my own goodies.

Once again, I have said this before, here. I think as a competent
turner (without a sponsor), you will need to learn to use the tools
around you for other things, and when you need a new tool, you might
want to learn to make one yourself. Othewise you won't be able to
afford all the goodies you want.

Soap box mode off.

Robert

Well said!
I really don't care about the actuall grind, not that I am such a good
sharpener, but if it is really bad I can always some who is a good one
to fix a bad grind for me. My teacher actually takes most tools that he
buys (even the ones that have his signature on them) and cuts a few
inches of HSS to make the tool more managable for him (Hamlet sells Eli
Avisera signature tools)

However, I am currently caught by the notion that my tool needs to be
HSS - simply because my teacher said that it's edge holding
capabilities are much better than anything else - as I said before I
don't feel secure grinding my tools yet - so I prefer to do a minimum
of that = use HSS. I'll be glad to learn of alternatives...

On 30 Nov 2005 05:31:53 -0800, "Moshe Eshel" wrote:

Well said!
I really don't care about the actuall grind, not that I am such a good
sharpener, but if it is really bad I can always some who is a good one
to fix a bad grind for me. My teacher actually takes most tools that he
buys (even the ones that have his signature on them) and cuts a few
inches of HSS to make the tool more managable for him (Hamlet sells Eli
Avisera signature tools)

However, I am currently caught by the notion that my tool needs to be
HSS - simply because my teacher said that it's edge holding
capabilities are much better than anything else - as I said before I
don't feel secure grinding my tools yet - so I prefer to do a minimum
of that = use HSS. I'll be glad to learn of alternatives...

Well, just about every chisel for sale out there is HSS...
I look at Oneway's chisels and note the steel specifications... and think that
they are probably very good steel but won't make my work 3 or 4 times better, so
I can't justify the price..

An example: Harbor Freight sells 2 basic lathe chisel sets, one that gouges on
sale for about $15, another that I picked up a few months ago for $30.. (half
price deal)
They're both HSS and about the same length, but the $30 set is much heavier and
obviously thicker steel...
They'll both sharpen ok and cut wood and are both good deals... you get what you
pay for.. (well sometimes you pay a lot for someone's autograph)

I'd recommend a set or 2 of the cheap ones to anyone that is learning
sharpening, especially if they want to get creative and regrind some of them...
As soon as I got the $10 set home, I reground both skews to a 90 degree for a
"straight skew" or whatever... work well and I didn't have to worry about
ruining an expensive tool if it didn't work.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

The problem with PSI, Benj's bowl gouges, is they are really spindle
gouges. At least that's been my experience. When I called to
complain, of course, the grouchy females that answer the phones, didn't
know what I was talking about. So, they put me thru to their "Turning
Tech Guru" (forgot his name), but, I may just as well have kept
speaking with the grouchy females. At least they admitted they didn't
know what I was talking about. This guy told me, like they told
you, that the problem would be corrected with the next shipment.
That was a couple of years ago. So, I see now, that was bull. At
PSI, they don't know a bowl gouge from a skew chisel.

My first experience with the "Benji Best" was the 6 piece set, at least
4 years ago. I liked them well enough that I thought I'd try another
set. Well, the quality wasn't nearly as good as the first set.
And, the bowl gouge, was a shallow gouge (read spindle gouge), not a
deep fluted (bowl gouge). What they did was reduce the price, along
with the quality, which is to be expected. Still, for the money, for
a first set, it is still worth the money.

I did buy 6 of their scrapers recently, & I think they are also a good
buy.

HTH,

I think they have corrected the bowl gouge issue, because I purchased the
bowl turning set last month and the two gouges were deep fluted bowl gouges.
I have used them sparingly so far but they seem to be of good quality for
the price. Like someone mentioned earlier, they might be sold on the Windsor
Design name because they look very similar to the Windsor Design set I got
from Harbor Freight.

John


wrote in message
ps.com...
The problem with PSI, Benj's bowl gouges, is they are really spindle
gouges. At least that's been my experience. When I called to
complain, of course, the grouchy females that answer the phones, didn't
know what I was talking about. So, they put me thru to their "Turning
Tech Guru" (forgot his name), but, I may just as well have kept
speaking with the grouchy females. At least they admitted they didn't
know what I was talking about. This guy told me, like they told
you, that the problem would be corrected with the next shipment.
That was a couple of years ago. So, I see now, that was bull. At
PSI, they don't know a bowl gouge from a skew chisel.

My first experience with the "Benji Best" was the 6 piece set, at least
4 years ago. I liked them well enough that I thought I'd try another
set. Well, the quality wasn't nearly as good as the first set.
And, the bowl gouge, was a shallow gouge (read spindle gouge), not a
deep fluted (bowl gouge). What they did was reduce the price, along
with the quality, which is to be expected. Still, for the money, for
a first set, it is still worth the money.

I did buy 6 of their scrapers recently, & I think they are also a good
buy.

HTH,

I sent an email complaining the "bowl gouges" I had received were actually
spindle gouges, not deep fluted bowl gouges.
They said they were aware of the problem and would replace them as soon as
the new ones came in. They did so
and I received them this week. They had a good fingernail grind and I just
touched them up on the Tormek before
turning couple of box elder bowls. I am very satisfied with them. They work
as well as my more expensive ones.
They may or may not last as long, only time will tell, but I can buy several
of them for the price of a Sorby.
By the way, PSI told me I could keep the spindle gouges.
Dave

gouges.
wrote in message
ps.com...
The problem with PSI, Benj's bowl gouges, is they are really spindle
gouges. At least that's been my experience. When I called to
complain, of course, the grouchy females that answer the phones, didn't
know what I was talking about. So, they put me thru to their "Turning
Tech Guru" (forgot his name), but, I may just as well have kept
speaking with the grouchy females. At least they admitted they didn't
know what I was talking about. This guy told me, like they told
you, that the problem would be corrected with the next shipment.
That was a couple of years ago. So, I see now, that was bull. At
PSI, they don't know a bowl gouge from a skew chisel.

My first experience with the "Benji Best" was the 6 piece set, at least
4 years ago. I liked them well enough that I thought I'd try another
set. Well, the quality wasn't nearly as good as the first set.
And, the bowl gouge, was a shallow gouge (read spindle gouge), not a
deep fluted (bowl gouge). What they did was reduce the price, along
with the quality, which is to be expected. Still, for the money, for
a first set, it is still worth the money.

I did buy 6 of their scrapers recently, & I think they are also a good
buy.

HTH,