Good solid stuff, it was overhanging his house so he needed to cut it down
before something broke and came crashing through the roof. I've grabbed
about 10 good size logs, all about 15-24 inches long, 12"-18" in diameter
(carried it all home in my Jetta ) I've never worked with silver maple
before, but it's pretty soft (maybe just because it's wet) and turns pretty
easily (again probably the wetness)

I've turned some of the smaller branches into bowls with the bark left on
the outside. Wife likes them for rustic decorations around the house and
even asked me if we could make candles out of em. I instructed her that
wood does indeed burn and thus probably would not make a good candle holder,
although I did satisfy her by putting tea lights in a few very wet ones I
had just turned.

My question to the group as I'm relatively new to turning (about 6 months)
is should I let the logs dry out, then cut the bowl blanks? Or should I cut
the blanks, turn the bowls, and then let them dry? I turned a small branch
into a vase and the next day it had many ugly cracks in it. But the few
"bowls" I've turned with it haven't cracked.

I'd ideally like to make many bowls out of this stuff, mainly to work on my
technique, but also to have a nice set of bowls. I'd also like to turn some
natural edge bowls and I think I should do these now as I believe if I turn
them when dry, the bark will chip much easier.

TIA!

Mike Rinken

Mike
You are going to have fun. The problem with finish turning wet wood is it
moves and cracks. Rough turn and dry before finish turning. Take a look at
my web site under roughing a bowl for some hints.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Skippy Jones" wrote in message
news:e30aa$425a9f1b$41a9ca42$17470@allthenewsgroup s.com...
Good solid stuff, it was overhanging his house so he needed to cut it down
before something broke and came crashing through the roof. I've grabbed
about 10 good size logs, all about 15-24 inches long, 12"-18" in diameter
(carried it all home in my Jetta ) I've never worked with silver
maple
before, but it's pretty soft (maybe just because it's wet) and turns
pretty
easily (again probably the wetness)

I've turned some of the smaller branches into bowls with the bark left on
the outside. Wife likes them for rustic decorations around the house and
even asked me if we could make candles out of em. I instructed her that
wood does indeed burn and thus probably would not make a good candle
holder,
although I did satisfy her by putting tea lights in a few very wet ones I
had just turned.

My question to the group as I'm relatively new to turning (about 6 months)
is should I let the logs dry out, then cut the bowl blanks? Or should I
cut
the blanks, turn the bowls, and then let them dry? I turned a small
branch
into a vase and the next day it had many ugly cracks in it. But the few
"bowls" I've turned with it haven't cracked.

I'd ideally like to make many bowls out of this stuff, mainly to work on
my
technique, but also to have a nice set of bowls. I'd also like to turn
some
natural edge bowls and I think I should do these now as I believe if I
turn
them when dry, the bark will chip much easier.

Soft and soaking, I'll bet. Faster you get them roughed and drying under
control, the better.

At the least, run your saw up the middle before the radial shrinkage can
ruin them, and protect the ends from rapid moisture loss.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm will give
you a good idea of how it shrinks, explains why, and allows you to choose
your antidote. Chapters 2 and 3 are what you want to look at, with figure
3-3 showing how the wood will distort while drying.

With the sap already up, the cambium and sub-bark are going to be wetter
even than the sapwood, and will shrink at a different rate than the wood,
since their structure is different. Means your bark-up styles are going to
be a crapshoot when drying. Run some water-thin CA glue along the sub-bark
and cambium to try and stiffen and adhere it. Works most of the time.

Skippy Jones wrote:

Good solid stuff, it was overhanging his house so he needed to cut it down
before something broke and came crashing through the roof. I've grabbed
about 10 good size logs, all about 15-24 inches long, 12"-18" in diameter
(carried it all home in my Jetta ) I've never worked with silver maple
before, but it's pretty soft (maybe just because it's wet) and turns pretty
easily (again probably the wetness)

I've turned some of the smaller branches into bowls with the bark left on
the outside. Wife likes them for rustic decorations around the house and
even asked me if we could make candles out of em. I instructed her that
wood does indeed burn and thus probably would not make a good candle holder,
although I did satisfy her by putting tea lights in a few very wet ones I
had just turned.

My question to the group as I'm relatively new to turning (about 6 months)
is should I let the logs dry out, then cut the bowl blanks? Or should I cut
the blanks, turn the bowls, and then let them dry? I turned a small branch
into a vase and the next day it had many ugly cracks in it. But the few
"bowls" I've turned with it haven't cracked.

I'd ideally like to make many bowls out of this stuff, mainly to work on my
technique, but also to have a nice set of bowls. I'd also like to turn some
natural edge bowls and I think I should do these now as I believe if I turn
them when dry, the bark will chip much easier.

TIA!

Mike Rinken


I got some that had been standing dead awhile. Beautiful
spalting but where not spalted rather bland white wood.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing
for money.





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I got some that had been standing dead awhile. Beautiful spalting but
where not spalted rather bland white wood.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing
for money.


I made sure I grabbed Y pieces, and anything with character. I should have
a lot of bowl blanks, and I agree, it is rather bland white wood, but I need
the practice as my bowl turning skills are severely lacking. I can turn a
mean spoon or spatula handle though.

Thanks!

Mike Rinken

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:%hx6e.18568$vt1.17223@edtnps90...
Mike
You are going to have fun. The problem with finish turning wet wood is it
moves and cracks. Rough turn and dry before finish turning. Take a look at
my web site under roughing a bowl for some hints.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


WOW! Great stuff on there Darrell. My addiction to turning is growing
(please don't tell my unfinished furniture projects) and I think soon I'll
be way past the Jet Mini Lathe I'm currently using for everything.

Thanks for the site link!

Mike Rinken

Darrell,
I must disagree. I'm willing to bet one big fat dripping wet piece
of big leaf maple burl that I don't lose any more of my wet turned to
finished thickness bowls than you do of your thick turned, dried, then
returned bowls. We have different styles, but are both doing
essentially the same thing. Turn to an even thickness which distributes
the drying stresses evenly over the whole bowl, then controlling the
drying process so that the stress doesn't build to a great enough level
that would cause the bowl to crack. Yes they do warp, which I love.
Power sanding is almost a necessity. About the only ones that I lose
are ones where I don't quite turn out all of the radial cracking that
almost always comes off of the pith. I had one peice of Madrone that
finished moving at 18 inch long by 13 inch wide by 9 to 6 1/2 inches
high. It wasn't oval, it was triangular. It is the mystery that I love.












Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Mike
You are going to have fun. The problem with finish turning wet wood
is it
moves and cracks. Rough turn and dry before finish turning. Take a
look at
my web site under roughing a bowl for some hints.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Hi Mike

Maple, any kind can be bland or just beautiful, just depend on the tree,
and from where and how you cut the blanks out of the log, quilted, tiger
stripe, curly, reaction wood, bird eye, etc. are all types of maple
wood, and give you some idea of all the shades of maple lumber around.
I have turned a good number of turnings out off silver Maple, it is not
a problem wood, either for turning or drying, but you have to follow
some common sense rules when working with it, to keep the wood from
splitting and cracking, you have to give the wood the time to loose the
moisture, so that the stresses stay below the point where the wood will
split.

Seal the end grain of the logs and rough turn as soon as possible, keep
wall thickness approx. at 10% of Dia. then either put in paper bags or
seal the rough outs with a log end wood sealer.

For making weed pots or and candle holders the same thing counts, keep
them in paper bags or seal with wood sealer, but the bigger solid or
almost solid turnings, they still like to crack, though a lot of times
if you wait till the wood has totally dried the cracks close up and are
barely noticed, specially if you turn the crack to the backside (G).

For the bark-on turnings, like GEORGE mentions, the early spring is not
the best time for a lot of woods to keep the bark on, from the time when
the bark of oak logs and limbs was used for the leather tanning
industry, the bark was taken in early spring when it came off easily
after clubbing it, still, what do you have to loose, other than some
bark, give it a try, only practice and experience will make you a better
turner.
ca glue might keep the bark on for you, but even without the bark it can
be nice, so don't waste more time. GO FOR IT !!

There is some silver maple on my web site, if you care,

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum12.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


Skippy Jones wrote:

//snip//

My question to the group as I'm relatively new to turning (about 6 months)
is should I let the logs dry out, then cut the bowl blanks? Or should I cut
the blanks, turn the bowls, and then let them dry? I turned a small branch
into a vase and the next day it had many ugly cracks in it. But the few
"bowls" I've turned with it haven't cracked.

I'd ideally like to make many bowls out of this stuff, mainly to work on my
technique, but also to have a nice set of bowls. I'd also like to turn some
natural edge bowls and I think I should do these now as I believe if I turn
them when dry, the bark will chip much easier.

TIA!

Mike Rinken

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Turn to an even thickness which distributes
the drying stresses evenly over the whole bowl, then controlling the
drying process so that the stress doesn't build to a great enough level
that would cause the bowl to crack. Yes they do warp, which I love.

Just as politics, all shrinkage is local.

As an example of how unevenly the drying stresses are distributed - wet
pieces warp.

Turn almost any wood to 3/8 or less, and you should have no cracks you
couldn't already have predicted. Exceptions are woods with prominent rays,
which split easily and randomly along them when local forces are high.
Sometimes they even close up later.

Robbo Hippy
I do not think that we are disagreeing, merely interpreting the same data to
different results. It is my record that finish turned wet bowls distort and
crack. The incidence of cracking is less than that of distortion since
distortion or warping is close to if not at 100%. It should be noted that I
tend to turn a lot of reaction wood or the like for wet and cracking is more
likely that from a clean piece of trunk wood.
The question is whether a warped bowl is suitable. I am usually turing a
bowl for utilitarian purposes and in this case a warped bowl is not as
useable. For aristic purposes it may be superior depending upon the eye of
the beholder.
On the other hand I enjoy turning wet wood to finished hollow forms with the
grain parallel to the ground and usually including the pith. They are turned
for the warp and sometimes with the expectation of radial splitting along
the pith, sometimes with the hope that a consistent wall thickness will
avoid the split. There is an uncertainty that adds to the enjoyment.
Keep turning and have fun.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Well this still has me scratching my head, and there isn't much hair up
there to scratch. I also turn reaction wood whenever I can get my hands
on it, mostly crotch wood. I am wondering why you seem to have more
problems with cracking when you turn to finish thickness than I do.
Some woods I can leave at 1/2 inch plus and they don't crack, and
others need to be 1/4 or less (like fruit woods). Maybe it is the
difference in our growing climate or something. A 30 year old Silver
Maple here is 30 inches in diameter.

George, your comment about uneven stresses got me thinking too. I
thought the warping was due to the structure of the wood fiber: little
shrinking up and down the tree (compression load) but a lot around the
girth of the tree (to accomodate seasonal water and sap flow). Does
that cause the stress? Is it because some parts shrink more that
others, like sap and early wood compared to heart wood?
robo hippy
















Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Robbo Hippy
I do not think that we are disagreeing, merely interpreting the same
data to
different results. It is my record that finish turned wet bowls
distort and
crack. The incidence of cracking is less than that of distortion
since
distortion or warping is close to if not at 100%. It should be noted
that I
tend to turn a lot of reaction wood or the like for wet and cracking
is more
likely that from a clean piece of trunk wood.
The question is whether a warped bowl is suitable. I am usually
turing a
bowl for utilitarian purposes and in this case a warped bowl is not
as
useable. For aristic purposes it may be superior depending upon the
eye of
the beholder.
On the other hand I enjoy turning wet wood to finished hollow forms
with the
grain parallel to the ground and usually including the pith. They are
turned
for the warp and sometimes with the expectation of radial splitting
along
the pith, sometimes with the hope that a consistent wall thickness
will
avoid the split. There is an uncertainty that adds to the enjoyment.
Keep turning and have fun.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...



George, your comment about uneven stresses got me thinking too. I
thought the warping was due to the structure of the wood fiber: little
shrinking up and down the tree (compression load) but a lot around the
girth of the tree (to accomodate seasonal water and sap flow). Does
that cause the stress? Is it because some parts shrink more that
others, like sap and early wood compared to heart wood?
robo hippy

Yep, early wood contracts proportionately more than late. The firmer, dense
"rings" are pulled in by the wider, but softer early wood. Of course
distribution of pores and variations between species play a factor. When
you cut near a limb, you've revealed a new local warp, that of its annual
rings. Check the fpl literature on wood structure, and any plank down at
the Home Depot to see the way radial distortion pulls toward the sapwood
with its broader rings. while radial takes dimension from the width. Slash
knots either stand proud of or sit below the average surface, depending on
whether their larger rings are out or in.

"Leo Van Der Loo" wrote in message
...
Hi Mike

Maple, any kind can be bland or just beautiful, just depend on the tree,
and from where and how you cut the blanks out of the log, quilted, tiger
stripe, curly, reaction wood, bird eye, etc. are all types of maple wood,
and give you some idea of all the shades of maple lumber around.
I have turned a good number of turnings out off silver Maple, it is not a
problem wood, either for turning or drying, but you have to follow some
common sense rules when working with it, to keep the wood from splitting
and cracking, you have to give the wood the time to loose the moisture, so
that the stresses stay below the point where the wood will split.

Seal the end grain of the logs and rough turn as soon as possible, keep
wall thickness approx. at 10% of Dia. then either put in paper bags or
seal the rough outs with a log end wood sealer.

For making weed pots or and candle holders the same thing counts, keep
them in paper bags or seal with wood sealer, but the bigger solid or
almost solid turnings, they still like to crack, though a lot of times if
you wait till the wood has totally dried the cracks close up and are
barely noticed, specially if you turn the crack to the backside (G).

For the bark-on turnings, like GEORGE mentions, the early spring is not
the best time for a lot of woods to keep the bark on, from the time when
the bark of oak logs and limbs was used for the leather tanning industry,
the bark was taken in early spring when it came off easily after clubbing
it, still, what do you have to loose, other than some bark, give it a try,
only practice and experience will make you a better turner.
ca glue might keep the bark on for you, but even without the bark it can
be nice, so don't waste more time. GO FOR IT !!

There is some silver maple on my web site, if you care,

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum12.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


My problem now is my lathe is not big enough! I'm going to have to turn
smaller bowls to fit on the lathe (Jet mini lathe). I tried turning a
larger piece, as large that would fit between centers and not hit the bed,
problem was the tool rest is now a good 4-6 inches from the surface as i had
to put it on past the center on the right and it will not move any closer.
I'm not turning something that large and heavy just suspended from a tenon
until I have a good amount of wood removed, but the tools are not reaching
without considerable danger to hands and poor control.

So looks like lots of small bowls, lidded containers, etc. No big though, I
need the practice and will be fun turning! But man I GOTTA get a bigger
lathe.

thanks for all the advice so far.

Mike Rinken

"Skippy Jones" wrote in message
news:e82a$426050e6$41a9ca42$2789@allthenewsgroups. com...

My problem now is my lathe is not big enough! I'm going to have to turn
smaller bowls to fit on the lathe (Jet mini lathe). I tried turning a
larger piece, as large that would fit between centers and not hit the bed,
problem was the tool rest is now a good 4-6 inches from the surface as i
had
to put it on past the center on the right and it will not move any closer.
I'm not turning something that large and heavy just suspended from a tenon
until I have a good amount of wood removed, but the tools are not reaching
without considerable danger to hands and poor control.

So looks like lots of small bowls, lidded containers, etc. No big though,
I
need the practice and will be fun turning! But man I GOTTA get a bigger
lathe.

You can turn what will become about a 9-9 1/2" bowls safely and easily.
Takes care at the bandsaw and maybe a trim here and there with a block
plane, but you can get good circularity at 10 which will contract some with
drying.

The way I do it at http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/index.html makes
swing over toolrest just a phrase, and allows you to keep things in tight
where control is greatest.

Won't matter if you get bigger, something else will always happen. I got a
16" and then found out my drillpress could only bore to the center of a 15
1/2" circle. I ordered a 1" router bit for center plunging, though.

Skippy,
One of my favorite things to do with silver maple is to force it to spalt.
Just split it and put it in a plastic bag out of the sun. In 6 months you
should have some nice spalting. I got a couple of pieces about a year ago.
Put it in garbage bags in my garage and got some beautiful wood. I have a
bowl from it at the gallery where my pieces are for sale and get more
questions about that wood than any other.
Tony Manella

"Skippy Jones" wrote in message
news:e30aa$425a9f1b$41a9ca42$17470@allthenewsgroup s.com...
Good solid stuff, it was overhanging his house so he needed to cut it down
before something broke and came crashing through the roof. I've grabbed
about 10 good size logs, all about 15-24 inches long, 12"-18" in diameter
(carried it all home in my Jetta ) I've never worked with silver
maple before, but it's pretty soft (maybe just because it's wet) and turns
pretty easily (again probably the wetness)

I've turned some of the smaller branches into bowls with the bark left on
the outside. Wife likes them for rustic decorations around the house and
even asked me if we could make candles out of em. I instructed her that
wood does indeed burn and thus probably would not make a good candle
holder, although I did satisfy her by putting tea lights in a few very wet
ones I had just turned.

My question to the group as I'm relatively new to turning (about 6 months)
is should I let the logs dry out, then cut the bowl blanks? Or should I
cut the blanks, turn the bowls, and then let them dry? I turned a small
branch into a vase and the next day it had many ugly cracks in it. But
the few "bowls" I've turned with it haven't cracked.

I'd ideally like to make many bowls out of this stuff, mainly to work on
my technique, but also to have a nice set of bowls. I'd also like to turn
some natural edge bowls and I think I should do these now as I believe if
I turn them when dry, the bark will chip much easier.

TIA!

Mike Rinken