I am in the process of moving my hot water tank from a cupboard in the
bathroom to a fitted wardrobe in the adjacent bedroom. There is
currently a back boiler in the living room chimney.

In terms of planning ahead I would like to allow space in the wardrobe
to fit a conventional boiler at a later date when the back boiler
finally gives up and dies. The flow/return for the boiler passes under
the bedroom which would make it easy to re-route later on. One side of
the cupboard is on an outside wall which would allow for flue
installation.

My question is whether it's feasible to have a hot water tank in the
same cupboard as the boiler. A quick look at a couple boiler manuals
suggests that there are specific ventilation requirements for boilers
and it is quite likely that another heat source in the same cupboard
would not be permitted.

I don't plan on fitting the boiler myself, just wanted to make it easy
to install one later on when the time comes.

Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Any help is appreciated.

"Andy Hide" wrote in message
om...
I am in the process of moving my hot water tank from a cupboard in the
bathroom to a fitted wardrobe in the adjacent bedroom. There is
currently a back boiler in the living room chimney.

In terms of planning ahead I would like to allow space in the wardrobe
to fit a conventional boiler at a later date when the back boiler
finally gives up and dies. The flow/return for the boiler passes under
the bedroom which would make it easy to re-route later on. One side of
the cupboard is on an outside wall which would allow for flue
installation.

My question is whether it's feasible to have a hot water tank in the
same cupboard as the boiler. A quick look at a couple boiler manuals
suggests that there are specific ventilation requirements for boilers
and it is quite likely that another heat source in the same cupboard
would not be permitted.

Most modern boilers can fit in a cupboard with no ventilation.

I don't plan on fitting the boiler myself, just wanted to make it easy
to install one later on when the time comes.

Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do. All in
one box, all solved.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do. All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Hide wrote:


My question is whether it's feasible to have a hot water tank in the
same cupboard as the boiler. A quick look at a couple boiler manuals
suggests that there are specific ventilation requirements for boilers
and it is quite likely that another heat source in the same cupboard
would not be permitted.

Not going to be a problem I would have thought, unless the cupboard is
very small. As long as you can get in there to work on the tank or the
boiler it should be fine.

Most boilers are "room sealed" so they have no ventilation requirements
as such. They will have clearance distances specified that will ensure
they will not cause undue heating of adjacent surfaces, and also allow
sufficent clearance for removal of covers etc when servicing. These
clearances can be very small (i.e. my boiler only required 5mm to each
side, 100mm below, and 190mm above).

Also bear in mind that A modern well lagged tank is also a fairly poor
heat source. The same is also true of the casework on modern condensing
boilers - they may get warm to the touch - but not hot as such.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do. All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...


It's the July solution to world hunger, disease, pestilence and hot
water.......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 11 Jul 2004 14:11:43 -0700, (Andy Hide)
wrote:

I am in the process of moving my hot water tank from a cupboard in the
bathroom to a fitted wardrobe in the adjacent bedroom. There is
currently a back boiler in the living room chimney.

In terms of planning ahead I would like to allow space in the wardrobe
to fit a conventional boiler at a later date when the back boiler
finally gives up and dies. The flow/return for the boiler passes under
the bedroom which would make it easy to re-route later on. One side of
the cupboard is on an outside wall which would allow for flue
installation.

My question is whether it's feasible to have a hot water tank in the
same cupboard as the boiler. A quick look at a couple boiler manuals
suggests that there are specific ventilation requirements for boilers
and it is quite likely that another heat source in the same cupboard
would not be permitted.

I don't plan on fitting the boiler myself, just wanted to make it easy
to install one later on when the time comes.

Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Any help is appreciated.


One thing to think about if you are going to fit a boiler in a
bedroom, even in a cupboard, is the noise.

From next year, new boilers will have to be condensing types (nothing
wrong with that). However, these do have a fan (all do AFAIK) and
although pretty quiet are noticable. Hence they tend to be fitted in
kitchens etc.

Perhaps another option, if you are tight on space downstairs would be
to fit the boiler in the loft. If the heating system is switched to
sealed operation (this doesn't imply that the hot water has to be),
then there is no restriction on placement of boiler relative to
cylinder as you have today. You would have to have a gas supply run
the the loft and board the area around the boiler to allow access for
servicing, but it could be a solution. Most modern boilers have a
variety of flue arrangements, including a pair of 50mm high
temperature plastic waste pipes in some cases, so you don't
necessarily have to have the traditional arrangement of a large flue
terminal through the wall.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

It's the July solution to world hunger, disease, pestilence and hot
water.......

I preferred the March solution of using 2 multipoint heaters to do the
heating.

Christian.

Perhaps another option, if you are tight on space downstairs would be
to fit the boiler in the loft.

Yes, I've got my cylinder (heat bank) and boiler in the loft. Best place for
'em. My loft was already boarded, loft laddered and with electric light, so
it was easy. We just needed to run loads of electrical cables and pipework.
The flue went out vertically through the roof with a flashing tile, which is
a much better idea than having a plume belching out onto the patio, which is
common with kitchen condensing boiler installations.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
It's the July solution to world hunger, disease, pestilence and hot
water.......

I preferred the March solution of using 2 multipoint heaters to do the
heating.

Do you people have solutions to suit the monthly climate? How novel

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest
removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do. All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...

Best solution for this man. The best. You don't know about these things.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest
removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do.
All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...

Best solution for this man. The best. You don't know about these things.


And you obviously can't read. Try looking at the first line quoted above,
with particular reference to the negatives. Furthermore, given that the
original poster has provide absolutely zero information regarding the type
of property, occupancy, hot water usage, heating requirements, etc then any
statement from yourself that a combi would be the "Best solution for this
man." is total ********. Once again your blinkered ignorance is revealed in
all its sorry glory.

Cheers
Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest
removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will do.
All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...

Best solution for this man. The best. You don't know about these
things.


And you obviously can't read. Try looking at the first line quoted above,
with particular reference to the negatives.

The OP, and yourself, doesn't know, he is being educated.

Furthermore, given that the
original poster has provide absolutely
zero information regarding the type
of property, occupancy, hot water usage,
heating requirements,

If he is considering putting the cylinder in a wardrobe that tells me a lot.
he needs a combi. That is easy for him to do if he is DIYing, takes up less
space, instant gushing water, etc.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Don't want to go down the combi route so please don't suggest
removing
the tank and fitting a combi!

Fit a high flow combi. The Alpha CB50 storeed water model will
do.
All
in one box, all solved.

The needle's stuck again...

Best solution for this man. The best. You don't know about these
things.


And you obviously can't read. Try looking at the first line quoted
above,
with particular reference to the negatives.

The OP, and yourself, doesn't know, he is being educated.

A bit of advice for you. If you're going to criticise a person's education,
then try to use acceptable English, rather than the nightmare construct of
poor grammar above. And don't assume that a person is uneducated simply
because they have already ruled out your prefered solution. After all, the
original poster knows more about his requirements than you do. Actually, the
original poster probably knows more than you, period. However, we'll skip
that for now.


Furthermore, given that the
original poster has provide absolutely
zero information regarding the type
of property, occupancy, hot water usage,
heating requirements,

If he is considering putting the cylinder in a wardrobe that tells me a
lot.
he needs a combi. That is easy for him to do if he is DIYing, takes up
less
space, instant gushing water, etc.


Wow, what a deductive genius you are. That the original poster wishes to
move the cylinder from a cupboard in the bathroom to a wardrobe in the
bedroom tells me a couple of things. Firstly that he needs more space in the
bathroom, and secondly that he is happy to sacrifice some space in the
bedroom. As I said before, the original poster gave no indication of his
other requirements, so the proposed solution of a combi is fundamentally
flawed.

Cheers
Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

snip tripe

After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution. he doesn't, neither do you.

Actually, the original poster probably
knows more than you, period.

He knows me? people who know me come to me.

However, we'll skip
that for now.

We will have to.


If he is considering putting the cylinder
in a wardrobe that tells me a
lot. he needs a combi. That is easy
for him to do if he is DIYing, takes up
less space, instant gushing water, etc.

Wow, what a deductive genius you are.

Thank you.

snip tripe

In article ,
IMM wrote:
After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution.

But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

Shall we run a sweepstake on the August solution?

I think he's going to modify an electric shower to heat up 100 tonnes of
sand poured into the cavity wall. Pipes then run through the sand to provide
millilitres of piping hot water at the taps.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

Shall we run a sweepstake on the August solution?

I think he's going to modify an electric shower to heat up 100 tonnes of
sand poured into the cavity wall. Pipes then run through the sand to
provide
millilitres of piping hot water at the taps.

Sounds interesting.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

snip tripe

After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution. he doesn't, neither do
you.

You missed out the word "think". You "think" you know how to give him the
best solution. Given the lack of information regarding his requirements, I
wouldn't have the temerity to make recommendations. There again, that's the
difference between a professional and a fool; the fool always rushes in
first.


Actually, the original poster probably
knows more than you, period.

He knows me? people who know me come to me.

Hmmm. Better add reading and/or comprehension to the list of basic skills
you're sadly lacking.


However, we'll skip
that for now.

We will have to.


If he is considering putting the cylinder
in a wardrobe that tells me a
lot. he needs a combi. That is easy
for him to do if he is DIYing, takes up
less space, instant gushing water, etc.

Wow, what a deductive genius you are.

Thank you.

An inability to detect sarcasm should also be added to the list of your
personal deficiences.


snip tripe


The tripe is actually your original statement quoted above. I'm actually
surprised that you haven't suggested putting the combi in the loft and
filling the wardrobe with sand to increase the thermal mass of the property.

Cheers
Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

snip tripe

After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution. he doesn't, neither do
you.

You missed out the word "think". You "think"

Correction: I "know".

snip tripe

In article ,
IMM wrote:
But I know how to give him then best solution. he doesn't, neither
do you.

You missed out the word "think". You "think"

Correction: I "know".

Well, if you know, why did you leave it out?

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:31:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution.

But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

I can't remeber where I heard/read this quote:

"If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail."

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:31:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution.

But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

I can't remeber where I heard/read this quote:

"If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail."

That was very nice.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:31:29 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Perhaps another option, if you are tight on space downstairs would be
to fit the boiler in the loft.

Yes, I've got my cylinder (heat bank) and boiler in the loft. Best place for
'em. My loft was already boarded, loft laddered and with electric light, so
it was easy. We just needed to run loads of electrical cables and pipework.
The flue went out vertically through the roof with a flashing tile, which is
a much better idea than having a plume belching out onto the patio, which is
common with kitchen condensing boiler installations.

Christian.

About a year ago we had a new condensing boiler and a large hot water
tank fitted by a professional heating engineer in the same large
airing cupboad (in an en-suite bathroom).
While the boiler has its strandard insulation (and I have
built a demountable enclosure round it) and the tank has integral
insulation, there is still a fair amount of heat leakage. As far as I
can tell it mainly comes from the pipework which I have insulated as
well as I can, but there are joints in the insulation and valves which
are not fully covered.
All in all, In summer I am glad that there is a door between
the boiler in its cupboard and the bedroom which we can shut to keep
the heat in. As far as noise is concerned, one can time the heating
circuits to be off for most of the time the bedroom is occupied - we
do not have young children.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:31:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
IMM wrote:
After all, the
original poster knows more about
his requirements than you do.

But I know how to give him then best solution.

But you only have one solution to every problem. Isn't it about time you
started reading some new brochures?

I can't remeber where I heard/read this quote:

"If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail."

What if you only have DeWalt boots?

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:15:44 +0100, Brian S Gray
wrote:


About a year ago we had a new condensing boiler and a large hot water
tank fitted by a professional heating engineer in the same large
airing cupboad (in an en-suite bathroom).
While the boiler has its strandard insulation (and I have
built a demountable enclosure round it) and the tank has integral
insulation, there is still a fair amount of heat leakage. As far as I
can tell it mainly comes from the pipework which I have insulated as
well as I can, but there are joints in the insulation and valves which
are not fully covered.
All in all, In summer I am glad that there is a door between
the boiler in its cupboard and the bedroom which we can shut to keep
the heat in. As far as noise is concerned, one can time the heating
circuits to be off for most of the time the bedroom is occupied - we
do not have young children.

I think that this is all fair comment, although one does have to
consider that other people who might buy the property in the future
may have different usage patterns.,


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I think that this is all fair comment, although one does have to
consider that other people who might buy the property in the future
may have different usage patterns.,

Yes, bedroom mounted boilers were definitely a negative point for us when
looking around properties.

Christian.

Thanks everyone for your comments on my original question.

As I said in my original post I was only trying to think ahead to the
future when the current back boiler needs replacing. I specifically
didn't want to get into the "get a combi" argument which was the
reason why I only gave details specific to my question. It may well be
that when the time comes the tank gets removed and I *do* get a combi
but until then that's irrelevant.

Andy.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
But I know how to give him then best solution. he doesn't, neither
do you.

You missed out the word "think". You "think"

Correction: I "know".

Well, if you know, why did you leave it out?