What's the best thin insulation available?

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement helps.
I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form
but no luck.

Bedouin wrote:

What's the best thin insulation available?

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement helps.
I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form but
no luck.

Ah. If you key in 'depron' on an ebay sarch, someone is selling depron
sheet (expanded polyproplyene) in small quantites. 3mm and 5mm thick.
Use water based contact adhesive (copydex?)

Polystryene sheet is also available, at builders mercahnts, as are cork
sheet and bubble wrap, Mock not, these all work.

you can strip standard EPS foam with a hot wire or indeed a wood saw if
you don't mind a bit of mess.

Bedouin wrote:
What's the best thin insulation available?

I was trying to spec some thin insulation recently and a structural
engineer mentioned something called "Tri-Iso Super 9", about which I
know nothing other than it's pretty expensive, so I didn't go any
further - others here may know something about it?

David

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement helps.
I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form
but no luck.

You can get celotex down to 12mm. I take it this is still too thick?

Christian

In article , Lobster
writes
Bedouin wrote:
What's the best thin insulation available?

I was trying to spec some thin insulation recently and a structural
engineer mentioned something called "Tri-Iso Super 9", about which I
know nothing other than it's pretty expensive, so I didn't go any
further - others here may know something about it?

It's ****, avoid.

Sorry, to elaborate:
It relies on being fitted precisely in the middle of two 1" closed air pockets
in order to work; it is thin material but not an insulating medium for use in
limited spaces. It works mainly by limiting heat transfer by radiation but
then claims to "seal roofs against wind and damp, whilst retaining
ventilation" without mentioning that where the outer pocket is ventilated the
product will perform less effectively since heat will be lost by convection
instead of radiation.

Maybe have a read between the lines in the brochu
http://www.kensaengineering.com/pdf/79.pdf (209k pdf)

IMO, avoid foil based insulation systems, other types (foam based, celotex
etc) are more likely to achieve the claimed insulation performance over the
life of the property.
--
fred

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:32:42 GMT, fred wrote:

IMO, avoid foil based insulation systems, other types (foam based, celotex
etc) are more likely to achieve the claimed insulation performance over the
life of the property.

Wouldn't a foil component (IOW not relying totally on the foil) improve the
effectiveness of a thin insulating medium?

In article , nog
writes
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:32:42 GMT, fred wrote:

IMO, avoid foil based insulation systems, other types (foam based, celotex
etc) are more likely to achieve the claimed insulation performance over the
life of the property.

Wouldn't a foil component (IOW not relying totally on the foil) improve the
effectiveness of a thin insulating medium?

'Fraid not, certainly not if in contact with other materials. Foil is an effective
vapour barrier but achieves heat blocking by inhibiting radiation only. If it is
in contact with any material (insulator or otherwise) the heat loss is by
conduction and not radiation so there is no benefit.
--
fred

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:42:34 GMT, fred wrote:

In article , nog
writes
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:32:42 GMT, fred wrote:

IMO, avoid foil based insulation systems, other types (foam based, celotex
etc) are more likely to achieve the claimed insulation performance over the
life of the property.

Wouldn't a foil component (IOW not relying totally on the foil) improve the
effectiveness of a thin insulating medium?

'Fraid not, certainly not if in contact with other materials. Foil is an effective
vapour barrier but achieves heat blocking by inhibiting radiation only. If it is
in contact with any material (insulator or otherwise) the heat loss is by
conduction and not radiation so there is no benefit.

Ah yes, I see your point. Thanks.

Lobster wrote in message ...
Bedouin wrote:
What's the best thin insulation available?

I was trying to spec some thin insulation recently and a structural
engineer mentioned something called "Tri-Iso Super 9", about which I
know nothing other than it's pretty expensive, so I didn't go any
further - others here may know something about it?

David


My mate converted his loft, and wanted to preserve the view of the
original beams on the ceiling. To avoid filling the gaps completely he
had to use the Tri-iso Super 9 stuff. Seems to have worked - the loft
is toasty and the beams look good. He said the stuff was pricey but
glad he paid.

"Bedouin" wrote in message
k...
What's the best thin insulation available?

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement helps.
I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form
but no luck.

Couldn't you spray it with foam then sand down to the required shape ?

Bedouin wrote:
What's the best thin insulation available?

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement
helps.
I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form

but no luck.

This is primarily for conductive insulation at 'common' temperatures?
For space heating rather than keeping an individual warm?

I have no idea of its U-value or whether its more gimmick than benefit,
but Wickes have 'foil coated' bubble wrap type stuff in rolls for
putting behind rads, under floors, dry lining, etc.

How about flooring underlays?

IanC

wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

What's the best thin insulation available?

I need to find thin insulation (5-6mm) suitable for sticking (using
waterproof glue) to a gently curved surface. This is in a situation
where energy is in very short supply so every little improvement

helps.

I expected to be able to find PUR/PIR closed cell foam in roll form


but no luck.


This is primarily for conductive insulation at 'common' temperatures?
For space heating rather than keeping an individual warm?

I have no idea of its U-value or whether its more gimmick than benefit,
but Wickes have 'foil coated' bubble wrap type stuff in rolls for
putting behind rads, under floors, dry lining, etc.

How about flooring underlays?

That's an excellent idea too.

Even 3mm of foam is a heck of a sight better than 9" of brick.


IanC

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Even 3mm of foam is a heck of a sight better than 9" of brick.

Wrong. Thermal resistance (R-value) is thickness divided by the thermal
conductivity of the material: R = t/k.

- for 3mm foam: t = 0.003m, k = 0.03 W/mK typically,
hence R = 0.1 m^2K/W approx.

- for 9 in. brick: t = 0.225 m, k ~ 1 W/mK,
hence R = 0.2 m^2K/W approx.

So 9 in. of brick is about twice as good as 3mm of foam, so far as
steady state heat loss is concerned.

--
Andy

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bedouin wrote:

What's the best thin insulation available?

Compressed Dr Evil, it's so dense it allows nothing through, not even a
clue.

Back when I laid the underfloor heating in the kitchen, my wife sourced
some extremely thin insulation (about 3-5mm) that claimed to be as good
as 50mm polystyrene. I'll see if I can find the sample and get the
details off it.

In the meantime someone else may recognise the stuff, it has two smooth
sheets of grey plastic (may be polyethylene or polypropylene) with a
foam sandwich.

The one I got has silver foil each side of the plastic. Called Airtec from
Screwfix and was b****y useless.


--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Andy Wade wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Even 3mm of foam is a heck of a sight better than 9" of brick.


Wrong. Thermal resistance (R-value) is thickness divided by the thermal
conductivity of the material: R = t/k.

- for 3mm foam: t = 0.003m, k = 0.03 W/mK typically,
hence R = 0.1 m^2K/W approx.

- for 9 in. brick: t = 0.225 m, k ~ 1 W/mK,
hence R = 0.2 m^2K/W approx.

So 9 in. of brick is about twice as good as 3mm of foam, so far as
steady state heat loss is concerned.


Umm. let's rephrase that rather sloppy sentence.

"Even 3mm of foam on 9" of solid brick is better than no foam at all"

The remark was prompted by the fact that lining just such a wall with
3mm cork tiles - and in fact it may actually have been 4.5" brick - made
a HUGE difference.

Steve Firth wrote:

Bedouin wrote:


What's the best thin insulation available?


Compressed Dr Evil, it's so dense it allows nothing through, not even a
clue.

Back when I laid the underfloor heating in the kitchen, my wife sourced
some extremely thin insulation (about 3-5mm) that claimed to be as good
as 50mm polystyrene. I'll see if I can find the sample and get the
details off it.

The very best insulator is polyisocyanurate board. Its precisely twice
as good as polystyrene and costs about 4 times as much. Its sold as celotex.


In the meantime someone else may recognise the stuff, it has two smooth
sheets of grey plastic (may be polyethylene or polypropylene) with a
foam sandwich.

Its called a load of old ********.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
The very best insulator is polyisocyanurate board. Its precisely twice
as good as polystyrene and costs about 4 times as much.

Not quite. The best insulator is a vacuum. It's just nobody has found a
way of encasing a building in it yet, though I'm sure Doctor Dickhead/IMM
will detail some place where it's been done.

Mike wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

The very best insulator is polyisocyanurate board. Its precisely twice
as good as polystyrene and costs about 4 times as much.


Not quite. The best insulator is a vacuum. It's just nobody has found a
way of encasing a building in it yet, though I'm sure Doctor Dickhead/IMM
will detail some place where it's been done.


Ok the best COMERCIALLY AVAILABLE insulation material...ok?

Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Not quite. The best insulator is a vacuum. It's just nobody has found a
way of encasing a building in it yet, though I'm sure Doctor Dickhead/IMM
will detail some place where it's been done.
Ok the best COMERCIALLY AVAILABLE insulation material...ok?
Umm no, you can buy a vacuum as an insulator commercially. Thermos.

Ah yes, how to build a gerbil house that complies with Part L in 2020

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Not quite. The best insulator is a vacuum. It's just nobody has found
a
way of encasing a building in it yet, though I'm sure Doctor
Dickhead/IMM
will detail some place where it's been done.
Ok the best COMERCIALLY AVAILABLE insulation material...ok?
Umm no, you can buy a vacuum as an insulator commercially. Thermos.

Ah yes, how to build a gerbil house that complies with Part L in 2020


If Two Jags stays in charge with his ideas on high ensity housing gerbil
houses is exactly what we'll be living in as well.