A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the desired
effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?

Any ideas?

--


Regards

John

John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the desired
effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?

Don't know about surveys - doesn't sound likely - I would have thought
that the best they can hope for is someone to suggest methods of
soundproofing that particular house.

For starters, is it double glazed? If not, that's got to be the first
thing to do, even if just secondary glazing. Needs doing slightly
differently if the object is primarily sound, rather than heat,
insulation (eg, glass separation should be greater). It's got to help,
and even if it turned out inadequate to prevent your friend from selling
up, I can't help feeling the outlay would be recouped in the sale (if
all the double glazing did was stop the attention of a buyer being
instantly drawn to the traffic noise, it would probably have paid for
itself!)

David

Lobster wrote:
John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house
but could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

For starters, is it double glazed? If not, that's got to be the first
thing to do, even if just secondary glazing.

Secondary glazing is likely to achieve a far better soundproofing result
than sealed D/G units.

In article ,
John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but
could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?

Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but
could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?

Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

.......to those interested. The above comment was nonsense. Double glazing
does have an affect.


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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but
could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?

Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

......to those interested. The above comment was nonsense. Double
glazing
does have an affect.

Indeed!

Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios that
you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when soundproofing
with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of frequencies that
are suppressed.

Scott

Chris Bacon wrote:

Lobster wrote:

John wrote:

A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house
but could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.


For starters, is it double glazed? If not, that's got to be the first
thing to do, even if just secondary glazing.


Secondary glazing is likely to achieve a far better soundproofing result
than sealed D/G units.

I have found double glazing better, mainly because of the rather better
seals.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
John wrote:

A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but
could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.


Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?


Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

It makes a phenomenal difference as aginst a rattly sash and no sealing.

"Scott" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house
but
could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?

Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

......to those interested. The above comment was nonsense. Double
glazing
does have an affect.

Indeed!

Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios that
you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when soundproofing
with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of frequencies that
are suppressed.

True. It stops the panes acting like a diaphragm. If using secondary DG, use
perforated fibre board on the walls between the two window sections.



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"John" wrote in message
news
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?

Any ideas?

--

Some friends of ours lived very close the flight path at Heathrow. They had
secondary double glazing fitted with a 100mm gap, as they were advised that
it was more efficient than replacement windows with sealed units for dealing
with noise.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

......to those interested. The above comment was nonsense. Double
glazing does have an affect.

Indeed!

Ignore the troll, Scott

*Ordinary* double glazing - of the type commonly found in domestic
premises is designed to minimise heat loss - not to provide sound
insulation.
Of course it has some effect, but that's because of the extra mass of the
second layer of glass. To provide a decent amount of sound insulation the
gap has to be much greater.

Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios
that you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when
soundproofing with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of
frequencies that are suppressed.

It's common practice to avoid having the two sheets of glass parallel to
one another, to avoid the creation of standing waves. But each one will be
plain thick plate glass of about 1/2" thickness. And spaced apart by some
9 inches or so at the nearest point. This will give the same sort of sound
insulation as a specially constructed 9" brick cavity wall made out of
heavy bricks.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios
that you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when
soundproofing with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of
frequencies that are suppressed.

True. It stops the panes acting like a diaphragm.

So you understand less about sound than anything else? I didn't think this
possible.

To prevent something acting like a 'diaphragm' at audio frequencies, you
make it as rigid as possible. Or you damp it in some way. With glass
windows in an acoustic insulated wall, you do this by not having the two
- or more - sheets parallel to one another, to prevent standing waves.

If using secondary DG,
use perforated fibre board on the walls between the two window sections.

Just perforated board? I'd suggest you look behind it. As if.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Kaiser" wrote in message ...
"John" wrote in message
news
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?
I researched this for my own project - yes to 100mm gap, lining the
gap walls with perforated board (proprietary sound absorbing stuff
can't remember the name), different glass weights (so they don't
reverberate in synchro) or different glass panel size for the same
reason, good air seals, heaviest glass the design can accomodate.
cheers
Jacob

"Kaiser" wrote in message ...
"John" wrote in message
news
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?
I researched this for my own project - yes to 100mm gap, lining the
gap walls with perforated board (proprietary sound absorbing stuff
can't remember the name), different glass weights (so they don't
reverberate in synchro) or different glass panel size for the same
reason, good air seals, heaviest glass the design can accomodate.
cheers
Jacob

"John" wrote in message
news
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic noise
in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house but could do
with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey done?

Any ideas?

The simplest and cheapest first step is to make sure all the windows, doors
and other openings facing the traffic are properly draught proofed. Most
noise travels through air and stopping up all the air gaps can make a
surprising difference. In a detached or semi-detached house, you may also
need to treat windows on the side of the house. Draught proofing will also
reduce heat losses.

If the house has sash windows, which can be difficult to seal, you can do a
temporary fix with gaffer (duct) tape over all the gaps. It won't look
pretty, but it will give you an idea of whether it is worth going to the
trouble of sealing them properly. (It almost certainly is, but it may
require the complete replacement of the original windows).

Once that has been done, then you need to add mass - things like fitting a
solid and heavy front door and double glazing. For best effect, fit
secondary double glazing, which should be separated from the original
windows by at least 50mm and preferrably by 100mm. Ideally, the glass in the
secondary double glazing should be a different thickness from that in the
original windows and, as we want to add mass, thicker is better than
thinner. This can be quite expensive, so start with the rooms where noise
reduction is most important, usually a bedroom or two. Note that secondary
double glazing allows air to circulate between the two panes of glass, so it
is not as effective at heat insulation as ordinary double glazing.

If the noise is worse upstairs, it may be coming in through the roof. Again,
the answer is to add mass and avoid air gaps. Heavy soundproofing felt,
draped across the ceiling joists and overlapped where two pieces meet, is
one way. If your ceiling joists will take the weight, or you are willing to
fit extra load-bearing joists, flooring it out with T&G flooring quality
chipboard (not loft flooring quality), preferably 22mm or even 38mm, is
another way. However, it can be difficult to make sure that all air gaps are
sealed around the edges, so you may need to combine that with soundproofing
felt there.

Colin Bignell

John wrote:
A friend is getting quite desperate to move house because of traffic
noise in the house. It is a really nice brick and stone built house
but could do with some work to improve the situation - new door, etc.

Before embarking on spending money and finding it does not have the
desired effect, is it possible to have some sort of objective survey
done?
Any ideas?

We live on a road off a busy road and which is a bus route. Apart from
buses, the traffic is reasonably quiet (apart from boy racers who insist on
zooming up the road). When we moved in we had old aluminium + original
frames thin gap double glazing. Some of the windows didn't close properly
(broken keepers causing the hinge edge to not stay in place) and so lots of
noise. This was a problem for us as we noticed this soon after moving in.

We replaced the double glazing at the front with uPVC DG which had larger
gaps than when the old stuff was installed - but normal gaps for modern
glazing. The effect was enormous! We do still hear the buses and cars, but
not enough to annoy us. Its probably a combination of the new DG and us
getting used to it.

In our situation the reason it was so bad was that the old windows didn't
fit properly. Once the new windows closed and sealed properly everything
was better.

Normal DG is designed to keep heat in and isn't designed to stop noise. It
does have an effect (as we found) but not as much as can be done using
proper accoustic glazing. Basically the gap required to stop sound is much
more than used in normal glazing. The size of gap is in the order of a few
inches, rather than the inch you get normally. As a result secondary
glazing will probably be easier/cheaper to implement the size of gaps
required.

David

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Scott wrote:
Secondary glazing with 'thick' glass will have a vast effect. Not
that
expensive, either. Ordinary double glazing makes little difference to
noise.

......to those interested. The above comment was nonsense. Double
glazing does have an affect.

Indeed!

.......our DIYing caber maker is shown to pass misinformation....he
continues....

Ignore the troll, Scott

....he failed to note that Scott disgareed with him, and many others on the
thread too......buit he goes on....

*Ordinary* double glazing - of

....of course this is not worth reading it is so bad... Sad but true.





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nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
Note that secondary
double glazing allows air to circulate between the two panes of glass, so it
is not as effective at heat insulation as ordinary double glazing.

The air "circulates" by convection - the recommended gap for good heat
retention is 25mm - this, however, is hard to get into some windows, so
smaller gaps are found much more often, which aren't so good. The main
benefit IMO for sealed unit D/G is the reduction or elimination of
condensation on the inside of the glass that is such a pain with single
glazing. Even 4-6-4 DG units are quite effective.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Ignore the troll, Scott

...he failed to note that Scott disgareed with him, and many others on
the thread too......buit he goes on....

Perhaps you'd give some figures of the noise reduction for normal single
glazing, normal double glazing, normal single glazing plus secondary
glazing with an approx 6" gap, and normal double glazing with secondary
glazing?

After all, you're good at searching for such things.

Hint. I've done my own tests, and after making sure the original single
glazing is properly sealed, secondary glazing makes *by far* the bigger
improvement.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We could not replace the SG sash windows in our house (and we would not have wanted to anyway), and could not fit secondary DG because of shutters. Simply having the windows refurbished and draughtproofed has resulted in 10db drop in the noise level (68 - 58). Not totally quiet, but much more tolerable. Our windows were in an appalling state, though (1/2 inch gaps were not uncommon), and this may account for the "good" result.

(averaged over three 3-minute observations with RIAA "C" weigthing at 7.30, 12.00 and 17.30 in four rooms on ground and first floor using a TRS digital phonometer - I think you can still buy it at Maplin for about £50)

Be careful over secondary DG installation in listed buildings - we heard stories of people being forced to take the secondary glazing off as the conservation officer objected. It is visible, especially if located 100-150mm inside the window, which you need to get good soundproofing.

Good luck!

Davide

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios
that you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when
soundproofing with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of
frequencies that are suppressed.

True. It stops the panes acting like a diaphragm.

So you understand less about sound
than anything else? I didn't think this
possible.

To prevent something acting like a 'diaphragm'

......our DIYing caber maker is at it again....totally wrong as
usual......sad but true.

MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did not
vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by playing a
beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed to know where the
building was at the time. Well me being me, I would know.



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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Ignore the troll, Scott

...he failed to note that Scott disgareed
with him, and many others on
the thread too......but he goes on....

Perhaps you'd give some

.......and still goes on, ad nausium...... Sad but true.


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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did not
vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by playing
a beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed to know
where the building was at the time. Well me being me, I would know.

So you think something that stops noise transmission one way won't in the
other? Or are you finally admitting that ordinary *double* glazing is poor
at sound insulation? You do know voices are a type of sound?

Hint. Try looking at houses round Heathrow, etc.

Of course when you find that triple glazing of a suitable design is both
good at heat and sound insulation you'll move on to recommending triple
'combi's'. Shudder.

--
*Procrastinate now

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios
that you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when
soundproofing with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of
frequencies that are suppressed.

True. It stops the panes acting like a diaphragm.

So you understand less about sound
than anything else? I didn't think this
possible.

To prevent something acting like a 'diaphragm'


.....our DIYing caber maker is at it again....totally wrong as
usual......sad but true.

MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did not
vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by playing a
beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed to know where the
building was at the time. Well me being me, I would know.

Is that where you keep your ill-tempered sea bass?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did not
vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by playing
a beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed to know
where the building was at the time. Well me being me, I would know.

....our DIYing caber maker is at it gain...Richard says......

So you think something that stops

....I did you all a favour and prevented you from reading this turgid
tripe....



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"Richard Conway" ShoobiddyDoobiddyDoopDoopDoopWah@com wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Also, I'm told (but not ever tested it) by someone who builds studios
that you're suppose to have 2 different thicknesses of glass when
soundproofing with double glazing. It apparently improves the range of
frequencies that are suppressed.

True. It stops the panes acting like a diaphragm.

So you understand less about sound
than anything else? I didn't think this
possible.

To prevent something acting like a 'diaphragm'


.....our DIYing caber maker is at it again....totally wrong as
usual......sad but true.

MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did not
vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by playing
a
beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed to know where
the
building was at the time. Well me being me, I would know.

Is that where you keep your ill-tempered sea bass?

Yes. I have whole tank of it.


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More than 120,000 groups
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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
MI6 in Mayfair had tripel glazed windows all around so that they did
not vibrate from the sound in the room. This could be detected by
playing a beam on the window from ouside. BTW, no one was supposed
to know where the building was at the time. Well me being me, I
would know.

...our DIYing caber maker is at it gain...Richard says......

So you think something that stops

...I did you all a favour and prevented you from reading this turgid
tripe....

You're a bit ****ed for this time of day?

--
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.