On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:51:02 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I meant when you started...I've forgotten what I used back in 1982 or
thereabouts.

RN it was, and rubbish it was too.

I still use it when I have to post articles (to a private news server)
over a Telnet link...because I still remember how to use it.

The one I use on my PC is much nicer!
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

(and before you answer, note that I am still trying to fix the fifth
compromised PC someone phoned me about in the last fortnight!)

LOL and i`m having to make a house-call tomorrow to someone who didn`t
take my advice several months ago when I handed him a CD of anti-spyware
apps - he`s now out of his depth and up the creek !

(which reminds me... download sysclean from Trend and put on CD ready...)

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Colin Wilson wrote:
(and before you answer, note that I am still trying to fix the fifth
compromised PC someone phoned me about in the last fortnight!)


LOL and i`m having to make a house-call tomorrow to someone who didn`t
take my advice several months ago when I handed him a CD of anti-spyware
apps - he`s now out of his depth and up the creek !

(which reminds me... download sysclean from Trend and put on CD ready...)

A copy of some of the tools from the SysInternals web site can be handy
for those b'stard nasties that keep killing any process that might be
used to remove them. Had one that not only took out all known virus
scanners and adware removers, but also killed regedit (both versions),
the command prompt and the task manager! It did not even fall for the
extract a new copy of the task manager to a new filename and run that trick.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:51:02 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

RN it was, and rubbish it was too.

I still use it when I have to post articles (to a private news server)
over a Telnet link...because I still remember how to use it.


I still use strn (using it to post this article). I did use rn as an
undergrad (being taught by Bob in fact ;-)) and then progressed to trn.
I've tried tin and slrn but I just can't get out of the habit

strn still works fine for me and I use usenet fairly heavily.

Darren

In article ,
Old Bill wrote:

Blimey, that takes me back.. thats all we had to use on Usenet 13 years ago.
A text based reader running on Unix ... Those were the days

Some of us are still using the same news reader (well, a varient of).

13 years ago I was using rn. I'm now using strn. :-)

Darren

(which reminds me... download sysclean from Trend and put on CD ready...)
A copy of some of the tools from the SysInternals web site can be handy
for those b'stard nasties that keep killing any process that might be
used to remove them.

Well I had an eye-opener today... usually a combination of HijackThis!,
Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster and CWShredder works, but I was at one today
for over 5 hours getting nowhere for a LONG time...

Key to all this is an *up to date* Norton Internet Security - read on :-}

After installing the usual suspects (as above) i`d clear all the
suspicious looking crud from the startup, but following a reboot it was
back again - I was obviously not clearing the right crud :-} - one of the
files being executed on startup was in a nested directory deep in the
system, and I investigated further via CLI only to discover a few more
were lurking (probably older variants of the same shyte) and deleted them
- found another directory a few hops away with more unknown executables
which had no visible calls to execute them, so wiped them too.

IE had toolbars patching in despite clearing them all out from HijackThis
and I was starting to pull my hair out and swear (moi ? ;-p) - i`d
already installed Firefox 101 so knew I was "relatively" safe to hit the
net while IE remained affected, so did lots of trawling for suspect
executables - which on a Hewlett Packard machine isn`t always that easy -
lots of HP specific apps in use :-}

Getting annoyed now... I grabbed the aforementioned Sysclean from Trend
and ran that in anger. Almost immediately it found a memory resident worm
(agobot variant), and a full file scan eventually found one other
infected file - both cleaned without incident. Skip forward 2 hours...

In a final act of desperation, I threw Pest Patrol at the system, and it
threw out 77 hits - some were simply toolbar urls, but it discovered a
lot of remnants of Lop and imesh that nothing else had picked up on - I
selected everything that wasn`t VNC (which i`d just put on from a clean
source), and held my breath while I rebooted.

The upshot:

Windows is ****, IE is dangerous
Pest Patrol has now joined my list of recommended apps
A free Trend app whups the ass off Nortons "****poor" Internet Security

and finally :-}

I`m still not entirely sure its 100% clean, but when someone uses IM apps
and IE, you`re certain to be in trouble a long time before you realise
you have a problem.

They`ve been told in no uncertain terms NOT to use IE unless absolutely
necessary (with the exception of Windows Crapdate), and I came away out
of pocket for transport getting to them to try to help !

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
news:4228418b$0$96070

snip stuff posted while I was away - not a holiday
Plausable?

You mean plausible.

Yes, but there are two attitude problems.

A) you did and do get at me because of what I use

B) you have a critical, negative approach to what you see as a problem
without explaining to your victims what are suitable alternatives and
suggest how they can be obtained and how they work. There's a n awful lot of
geek jargon bandied about which doesn't endear anyone to your cause, rather
it can make someone dig in his/her heels.

You're not alone in doing this by the way. It's become worse than boring.

(and before you answer, note that I am still trying to fix the fifth
compromised PC someone phoned me about in the last fortnight!)

Everyone needs a hobby.

Can I suggest that you use you spell checker before posting, to enable
easier and more effective communication?

Mary

Mary

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message


Windows is ****, IE is dangerous

Well that's going to convert users isn't it!

Pest Patrol has now joined my list of recommended apps
A free Trend app whups the ass off Nortons "****poor" Internet Security

That sort of statement is another reason why I don't say what protection I
have. I'm not prepared to be damned yet again.

... and I came away out
of pocket for transport getting to them to try to help !

Then you need to review your price structure to take account of such
variables.

Nobody's perfect you see :-)

Mary

Windows is ****, IE is dangerous
Well that's going to convert users isn't it!

Hopefully. Not a lot more I can say on this point other than USE A
DIFFERENT BROWSER !

Pest Patrol has now joined my list of recommended apps
A free Trend app whups the ass off Nortons "****poor" Internet Security
That sort of statement is another reason why I don't say what protection I
have. I'm not prepared to be damned yet again.

That`s fine, but if you do use Nortons, beware that its virus detection
abilities have fallen way behind over the last 3-4 years and are no
longer acceptable or adequate for the majority of seasoned computer
users.

There was a live worm active in memory on the machine I was looking at,
and despite Nortons being up to date it missed it completely. Trend
caught it within about 5 seconds of starting up as it scanned the memory.

I have a link to the free Trend Sysclean app at :
http://www.coreutilities.co.uk (bottom of the second linked page)

I had / have no intention of villifying you, and if I came across that
way I apologise :-}

We`re all castaways on the ocean known as the internet, and should be
willing to help learn and teach others about the tricks and tips we pick
up - using Internet Explorer can only be likened to pouring fish guts
overboard then taking swimming lessons in shark infested waters !

... and I came away out
of pocket for transport getting to them to try to help !
Then you need to review your price structure to take account of such
variables.

Price structure ? - I only ever offer help for free !

Nobody's perfect you see :-)

Least of all me :-}

Take care :-p

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"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
Windows is ****, IE is dangerous
Well that's going to convert users isn't it!

Hopefully. Not a lot more I can say on this point other than USE A
DIFFERENT BROWSER !

But if I choose a different browser how am I going to know that it meets
with your approval?

And if it does, will it meet with everyone else's approval?

And who is right?

Pest Patrol has now joined my list of recommended apps
A free Trend app whups the ass off Nortons "****poor" Internet Security

That sort of statement is another reason why I don't say what protection
I
have. I'm not prepared to be damned yet again.

That`s fine, but if you do use Nortons,

If it matters, I don't.


We`re all castaways on the ocean known as the internet, and should be
willing to help learn and teach others about the tricks and tips we pick
up

I agree, but you don't help. You only damn.

- using Internet Explorer can only be likened to pouring fish guts
overboard then taking swimming lessons in shark infested waters !

That sort of language, without offering alternatives in kindly words,
doesn't help. That's my point.

... and I came away out
of pocket for transport getting to them to try to help !

Then you need to review your price structure to take account of such
variables.

Price structure ? - I only ever offer help for free !

Then don't complain about the expenses.

Nobody's perfect you see :-)

Least of all me :-}

Nor me sigh

Take care :-p

Oh, I do, I do.

Mary

Hopefully. Not a lot more I can say on this point other than USE A
DIFFERENT BROWSER !
But if I choose a different browser how am I going to know that it meets
with your approval?
And if it does, will it meet with everyone else's approval?

Sod "my" approval - we say these things out of concern for the safety of
others on the net. Its in all our interests that "you" (as in anyone)
don`t get infected as it only results in more spam, trojans and worms for
the rest of us :-}

And who is right?

The ones who recommend not to use IE !

We`re all castaways on the ocean known as the internet snip
I agree, but you don't help. You only damn. snip
That sort of language, without offering alternatives in kindly words,
doesn't help. That's my point.

http://www.coreutilities.co.uk

Who says I don`t offer alternatives - I put (almost) everything I know
about trying to prevent others getting infected on the net for free.

Price structure ? - I only ever offer help for free !
Then don't complain about the expenses.

Its just nice to get a little "consideration" at times without appearing
to be a parasite :-}

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Mary Fisher wrote:

You mean plausible.

I can tell when you are narked, you start correcting my spelling... ;-)

Yes, but there are two attitude problems.

In your humble opinion?

A) you did and do get at me because of what I use

I thought I made it clear that I don't have a problem with what you use
(because of the responsible way in which you use it). I do have a
problem with the software that you use when it is not used in safe way.
This is a criticism of the software, not the people who use it.

B) you have a critical, negative approach to what you see as a problem
without explaining to your victims what are suitable alternatives and
suggest how they can be obtained and how they work. There's a n awful lot of

Part of the difficulty here is that I have do have good memory (for some
things at least!), and as a result I remember spelling out in some
detail on several occasions exactly what software can be used that is
not blighted by so many problems, and where to download it from etc.
This information was provided in direct response to some of your
postings the last time you raised this objection. Hence I assumed I
would not need to duplicate this information since you presumably
already know it.

However in my post above I seem to recall recommending:

"I was suggesting that you need third party programs for protection
(e.g. a good selection would be a virus scanner (AVG), AdAware,
Spywareblaster, SpybotSD1.3, (possibly ZoneAlarm depending on platform))
to keep safe."

In the thread (sometime around the 15th December last year) where we
were discussing usenet software, you said:

You have a point in that there might be other systems which are
better for certain uses but you didn't suggest what they were or in
what precise ways they were better.

I replied:

"Well to an extent, pretty much any of the applications designed as news
posting/reading clients will tend to do a better job.

However if you would like a specific recommendation, then I would
suggest that for people used to OE or Outlook they might like
Thunderbird. It has a nice (but not too different) UI, and you get a
number of advantages like good junk mail detection, ability to disable
running any active content in news/mail messages, support for RSS news
feeds etc.

If you don't mind paying for usenet software, then "The Bat" gets very
good reviews.

Ports of traditional Unix usenet software like Tin can also be good.
Forte Agent seems popular among many usenet users. "

Mary later said:

If anyone is tempted by these applications, where are they obtained,
how much do they cost, how are they installed ... etc.

I replied:

"The simplest to get on with would be Thunderbird:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Click the download link, run the setup program when done, and then
configure much like you would OE.

The Bat - easy to setup and use - can also do the MS Exchange
integration that usually requires Outlook:

http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/

Forte Agent - a google will turn up loads of versions, but here is one:

http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php

Tin (not recommended for newbies) in its original versions can be found
he

http://www.tin.org/
And a windows port he
http://two-wugs.net/wintin/"

geek jargon bandied about which doesn't endear anyone to your cause, rather
it can make someone dig in his/her heels.

I assume your heels to be well entrenched by now and I see no particular
need (for me at least) to shift them.

Accept my apologies for the jargon, I have been doing this stuff since I
was 10 and it is kind of natural to me. It is not intended to intimidate
or confuse. It is not always easy to put yourself into someone's head,
and so as work out exactly where to pitch an explanation. I hope you
realise by now that you only need ask for clarification on a term or
topic and I will attempt to provide it.

If you fancy a good online dictionary of everything "computer", then
look he

http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/index.html

You're not alone in doing this by the way. It's become worse than boring.

Sorry, but computer security *is boring*, it is also highly complex, and
its a moving target. Sadly if someone wants to retain exclusive use of
the PC they think they own, then they will need to overcome this
boredom, at least for a short time.

Can I suggest that you use you spell checker before posting, to enable
easier and more effective communication?

Generally I do, alas they are not perfect. I am dyslexic, so neither am
I, but between us we muddle through.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If you don't mind paying for usenet software, then "The Bat" gets very
good reviews.

me -- paid up user of TheBat! (its a mail program though, not usenet)

One of the few programs i`ve felt inclined to pay for !

--
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"The simplest to get on with would be Thunderbird:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Click the download link, run the setup program when done, and then
configure much like you would OE.
I remember finding it difficult to set up a news account that required a
password on Thunderbird, so I gave up. Now that text.news.ntlworld.com seems
to be functioning normally again, I must give it another try.

Stuart Noble wrote:
"The simplest to get on with would be Thunderbird:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Click the download link, run the setup program when done, and then
configure much like you would OE.

I remember finding it difficult to set up a news account that required a
password on Thunderbird, so I gave up. Now that text.news.ntlworld.com seems
to be functioning normally again, I must give it another try.

You are not prompted to enter your news server password until you go to
initially download the full list of Newsgroups. Similar to the mail
accounts on Thunderbird, that again do not prompt you until you send
your first mail. (You can alter/delete them later using Password Manager).

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

Mark Carver wrote:

You are not prompted to enter your news server password until you go to
initially download the full list of Newsgroups. Similar to the mail
accounts on Thunderbird, that again do not prompt you until you send
your first mail. (You can alter/delete them later using Password Manager).

One got'cha with Tunderbird mail it that it will default to having
authentication enabled for sending email as well. For many SMTP servers
this will actually prevent emails being sent. So you need to remember to
turn this off in those cases.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...

Who says I don`t offer alternatives - I put (almost) everything I know
about trying to prevent others getting infected on the net for free.

But in your posts you merely condemn.

Price structure ? - I only ever offer help for free !
Then don't complain about the expenses.

Its just nice to get a little "consideration" at times without appearing
to be a parasite :-}

True, but you still shouldn't gripe to others who are not responsible for
your expenses.

Mary

Mark Carver wrote:


You are not prompted to enter your news server password until you go to
initially download the full list of Newsgroups. Similar to the mail
accounts on Thunderbird, that again do not prompt you until you send
your first mail. (You can alter/delete them later using Password Manager).

This is the one area I can't seem to get Thbd to sit up and beg for me.
My ISP has changed newsserver access to require password access, and I
can't seem to trick Thdb into *remembering* that password - I have to
keep typing in the login and password - once on each invocation of tbrd,
and at 'random' occaisions later. It's a niggle, not a showstopper - but
if you have any incantations to suggest, I'll try them willingly. (I did
just try Refresh-ing the list of ng's, but that doesn't seem to have
tickled it.)

Stefek Zaba wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:


You are not prompted to enter your news server password until you go
to initially download the full list of Newsgroups. Similar to the mail
accounts on Thunderbird, that again do not prompt you until you send
your first mail. (You can alter/delete them later using Password
Manager).

This is the one area I can't seem to get Thbd to sit up and beg for me.
My ISP has changed newsserver access to require password access, and I
can't seem to trick Thdb into *remembering* that password - I have to
keep typing in the login and password - once on each invocation of tbrd,
and at 'random' occaisions later. It's a niggle, not a showstopper - but
if you have any incantations to suggest, I'll try them willingly. (I did
just try Refresh-ing the list of ng's, but that doesn't seem to have
tickled it.)

A couple of years ago I tried Mozilla Mail, and had exactly the same
issue. In the end I gave up on it, and went back to OE. However after a
friend recommended Thunderbird I gave V0.8 a spin. Been fine and I'm on
V1.0 now.

Have you ever had Mozilla Mail on your PC ? AIUI the 'origins' of
Thunderbird lie with this, I suppose it's possible that some of the
original attributes still lurk in 'Documents and Settings', though I'm
clutching at straws now.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.