I have a Worcester heatslave 9-24 combi boiler. There is a thermostat
knob on the front of the boiler and a separate controller (horstman
diadem?).

The timer on the controller is broken which is no great loss to me as i
dont use it. I will replace it at some point though i suppose. I usually
keep the HW switch on 24h and turn the CH on by putting the 'CH' switch
on the controller from 'off' to '24h'. This method has been working fine
for me so far... *BUT* i dont really think that the stat makes very much
difference to the heat output of the CH system! I have TRVs on all rads
and they are set to 5. The boiler is in a large cupboard (used to be a
bed recess i think!) would it make a difference if i had a room
thermostat? Or is there a better method for controlling the boiler and
heat output that im missing?

TIA

Yes you want a room stat, turn up the trv full or replace with lockshield in the zone where the stat is. Ther'll probably be a no volts connection shorted inside your boiler, take out the short and connect the common and call for heat from your roomstat to the two terminals it bridged. Get a stat that works without mains. Most will work with or without, the neutral in a stat is just for a preheater which predicts when the stat is going to soon reach temperature and switch off boiler early, this is supposed to level out the heating demand but I doubt it's any benefit. The anti shortcycling controls in boilers are stated to make no difference in economy in government publications.

"Paul Barker" wrote in message
...

The anti shortcycling controls in
boilers are stated to make no difference
in economy in government
publications.

They do increase longevity of the controls. Simple boilers mated to thermal
stores/heat banks, go a long time without any attention, as the boiler only
operates infrequently on one continuous long efficient burn. The controls
and fans and pumps get a far easier life.

Also nuisance boiler cycling is irritating. Many years ago I fitted a timer
on a relatives combi before controls became more sophisticated, to stop the
short cycling. I set a timer to 5 mins and it worked a treat.





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That's a very good point, some electronic things last longer if left on continuously switching on and off is what wears them out. I am into valve audio equipment, though it is true that valves have a certain number of hours cathode coating and they're dead. It's been fairly well established that if you leave your equipment on all the time the valves last longer than if you turn it on and off. It also sounds better when left on.

In article ,
Paul Barker wrote:
That's a very good point, some electronic things last longer if left on
continuously switching on and off is what wears them out. I am into
valve audio equipment, though it is true that valves have a certain
number of hours cathode coating and they're dead. It's been fairly well
established that if you leave your equipment on all the time the valves
last longer than if you turn it on and off. It also sounds better when
left on.

Hmm. The only piece of valve equipment I've got is a Quad AM tuner - and
if left on would require new valves every couple of years. So I only
switch it on when needed - which is rare these days, since pretty well all
the old AM services are now available on DAB.

Well designed solid state electronics shouldn't be worried about being
switched on and off. And things like pumps and fans will have a mechical
life based on 'running' hours. Although regular use should help prevent
any seizing.

--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dr Evil

Sorry to reiterate, your first paragraph makes a lot of common sense. You also often advise about going for a boiler swap rather than repair. This too can be valid advice. Though I try to fix most things I often regret the begining when I get to the end. An example just the other day Worcester 240 playing up, found ex vessel ruptured, put in new one, then auto air vent capooot, fitted new one, then o/h stat capoot, fitted new one, now pump suspect and heat ex badly scaled up. Before proceeding with last two I said to owner, it's up to you mate but now I think it's new boiler territory (his is 12 years old). I offered full refund of all work to date including parts and a reasonable price for a combi swap. I said honestly I don't want to invest any more labour in your boiler. In the evnt it's qtopped sounding like an aeroplane taking off and he's going to leave it running as it is for a while. I personally wouldn't spend another penny on it.

I know you have many enemies and sometimes have opposed me vehermently, but that's only because from the few words I print here you can't possibly understand all my logic. I can see yours is valid in many cases, though I don't make a study of every dot and tittle you express as some seem to.

It's true I prefer regular boilers and seperate controls, but I work amongst all elements of our industry they all have validity. There is wide consumer choice. I am about trying to fulliy inform my customers so they can make the best decision with their resources at the time. Surpisingly often this involves throwing in a cheap combi! Don't get me wrong though I wouldn't do it at home. I'd buy the best I could afford which is easy for me to service and part swap, I have my favourite make for that, I can change anything in 15 minutes and nothing costs more than £130.

If I wasn't so tired after all the work I do for others I'd fit a thermal store and a condensing regular boiler at home. Since I am so busy and everything at home works without my attention I'll stick with my Mexico and indirect open vent cylinder on Y plan, but one day it'll go to the knackers yard.

Anyway, peace!

In message , Paul Barker
writes
That's a very good point, some electronic things last longer if left on
continuously switching on and off is what wears them out. I am into
valve audio equipment, though it is true that valves have a certain
number of hours cathode coating and they're dead. It's been fairly well
established that if you leave your equipment on all the time the valves
last longer than if you turn it on and off. It also sounds better when
left on.

Maybe you should ask the neighbours

--
geoff

The best is a hybrid of internal immersed coil for low flows and preheat of the a plate heat exchanger, and a plate heat exchanger for high flows.

When you have high flows the DHW plate pump cuts in, otherwise the coil is adequate. This saves on the DHW pump, which can cycle on-off everytime someone just opens the tap for a few seconds, which is quite common. A small bypass around the flow switch with an in-line restrictor sets the flow rate for DHW pump switch on.

The hybrid also gives very high flowrates with the coil preheating the plate.

Another approach is have the coil for kitchen sink and basins and the plate for the high flows of bath and showers only, which can still be pre-heated by the coil.

You should see what the know-it-alls think. A quick recovery coil cylinder can be downsized. This is common knowledge, yet the know-it-alls get out their school physics books and say it doesn't. No experience whatsoever, but boy they know-it-all. I directed them to the Albion web site. They knew more than Albion of course. Even Gledhill say the same.

"CondenCyl HE ’s high efficiency coil and its ability to heat only the water you require means that a smaller capacity cylinder can be used. For example, a typical 120 litre cylinder to meet Part L requirements would reduce to 75 litres using a CondenCyl HE."
http://www.gledhill.net/building-pro.../condencyl.htm

The know-it-alls thread:
http://tinyurl.com/64zql

On one thread one man was limited to space, and they convinced him to go 120 litre when even a 45 litre would have done it. Unbelievable. That is the problem with this mediam, the OPs don't know who is genuine.

"Paul Barker" wrote in message

I know you have many enemies

You should see what the know-it-alls think. A quick recovery coil cylinder
can be downsized. This is common knowledge, yet the know-it-alls get out
their school physics books and say it doesn't. No experience whatsoever, but
boy they know-it-all. I directed them to the Albion web site. They knew more
than Albion of course. Even Gledhill say the same.

"CondenCyl HE 's high efficiency coil and its ability to heat only the water
you require means that a smaller capacity cylinder can be used. For example,
a typical 120 litre cylinder to meet Part L requirements would reduce to 75
litres using a CondenCyl HE."
http://www.gledhill.net/building-pr...x/condencyl.htm

The know-it-alls thread:
http://tinyurl.com/64zql

On one thread one man was limited to space, and they convinced him to go 120
litre when even a 45 litre would have done it. Unbelievable. That is the
problem with this mediam, the OPs don't know who is genuine.



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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You should see what the know-it-alls think. A quick recovery coil
cylinder can be downsized. This is common knowledge, yet the
know-it-alls get out their school physics books and say it doesn't. No
experience whatsoever, but boy they know-it-all. I directed them to the
Albion web site. They knew more than Albion of course. Even Gledhill say
the same.

Perhaps you'd quote the actual flow rates in what amounts to a near
instantaneous heating quick recovery coil in a storage cylinder if filling
a decent sized bath? Rather than adverts? Because all you're talking
about is a larger than normal 'thermal store' on a combi. Which is
easily exhausted on those - as will a smaller than needed fast recovery
storage cylinder.

You need to have some idea about physics. As if.

Hint. Makers of such things give all sorts of fancy names to things which
aren't new or revolutionary to impress fools like you.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You should see what the know-it-alls think. A quick recovery coil
cylinder can be downsized. This is common knowledge, yet the
know-it-alls get out their school physics books and say it doesn't. No
experience whatsoever, but boy they know-it-all. I directed them to the
Albion web site. They knew more than Albion of course. Even Gledhill say
the same.

Perhaps you'd quote the actual flow rates in what amounts to a near
instantaneous heating quick recovery coil in a storage cylinder if filling
a decent sized bath? Rather than adverts? Because all you're talking
about is a larger than normal 'thermal store' on a combi.

My God Mr Cranium is at it again! What is he on about? Babbling nonsense
about combi's and thermal stores when quick recovery cylinders is the point.
This would be good reading for a shrink. A whole diatribe could done on
him.



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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My God Mr Cranium is at it again! What is he on about? Babbling
nonsense about combi's and thermal stores when quick recovery cylinders
is the point. This would be good reading for a shrink. A whole diatribe
could done on him.

Then explain the differences in principle. You do understand principles?
I'll not hold my breath for your answer.

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My God Mr Cranium is at it again! What is he on about? Babbling
nonsense about combi's and thermal stores when quick recovery cylinders
is the point. This would be good reading for a shrink. A whole diatribe
could done on him.

Then explain the differences

What is he on about?


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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My God Mr Cranium is at it again! What is he on about? Babbling
nonsense about combi's and thermal stores when quick recovery
cylinders is the point. This would be good reading for a shrink. A
whole diatribe could done on him.

Then explain the differences in principle. You do understand
principles?

What is he on about?

I'll take that as a definite no, then.

--
*Warning: Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
My God Mr Cranium is at it again! What is he on about? Babbling
nonsense about combi's and thermal stores when quick recovery
cylinders is the point. This would be good reading for a shrink. A
whole diatribe could done on him.

Then explain the differences in principle. You do understand
principles?

What is he on about?

I'll take that as

Our treble and bass knob twiddler continued the babble.



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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Then explain the differences in principle. You do understand
principles?

What is he on about?

I'll take that as a definite no, then

Our treble and bass knob twiddler continued the babble.

Something else you know nothing about. Pro audio gear doesn't have 'treble
and bass' knobs.

--
*A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Then explain the differences in principle. You do understand
principles?

What is he on about?

I'll take that as a definite no, then

Our treble and bass knob twiddler continued the babble.

Something else you know nothing about. Pro audio gear doesn't have 'treble
and bass' knobs.

Unlike this thread ...

--
geoff