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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#81
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Mary Fisher wrote:
"Grunff" wrote in message ... Mary Fisher wrote: You no doubt drive a car. It's not a steam engined thing which needs a man with a flag walking in front of it ... but the modern i.c.e. couldn't spring fully formed, like Venus from the foam ... I do understand you viewpoint; I'm just not convinced that this is the right way to achieve the end goal (lower CO2 emissions - I still reserve judgment on whether this is necessary/desirable). It's ONE way. I'm not claiming that there's a single solution to all energy problems, perceived or otherwise. Most people live in cities/suburbs. Cities need a lot of power. Hmm. Need vs want ... Most, if not all of us (including me) use far more than we need. We just want it. And we're spending our resources at the expense of living creatures now and the future. You need to use vast swathes of the countryside to generate this power from sources like wind. I'm not sure a country like that would be a nice place to live. The city isn't a nice place to live for those who like clean air and see huge waste of energy of all kinds. As it happens I think that wind farms have an elegance of their own but that's subjective. I also think that pylons which litter the country - all over it, make the country not a nice place to live. Actually there is some benefit to be had from undergrunding the lot and going DC. Now we have high power voltage conversion technology.. Mary |
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#82
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Owain wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote [oil tanks] | You can build follies round em too. But if the folly has the purpose of concealing the oil tank, does it not then cease to be a folly? Interesting question.... | Best form of central heating is a lot of different ones. | Ive got a gravity feed aga, and electric pumped boiler, | two open fires and a wood stove. | One way or another we keep from hypothermia. Cats are a pretty useful back-up too. And a large labrador. Got all of those too.. Owain |
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#83
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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:54:21 +0000 (UTC), "Mike Deblis"
wrote: No maintenance - its a seled unit with a 25-year life... 25 years doesn't sound very long for what must have been a huge outlay - 50 metre long trenches! I bet it cost an arm and a leg to install. Surely a few fireplaces would have been a bit cheaper. Wood, after all, can be obtained from a sustainable supply. MM |
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#84
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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:29:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: Get an "Oil Watchman" device that fits to the tank and sends a radio signal to a plugin device inside that shows a number relating to the oil level. Ah, I was wondering whether such a device existed, me being a newbie oil tank owner. At present I stand at the kitchen window with my binoculars and can focus on the little green float in the sight tube which I have also marked off, though in inches. I must say, I am pleasantly surprised at how little the boiler consumes, but I'd still far rather have gas and forget about both the tank and the necessity to have to order refills, both pains in the veritable backside. Oh, and with gas, if it's chilly, you can just switch the hob on in the kitchen. Far better and quicker (and cheaper) heat boost than those fan heaters. Give me gas every time. MM |
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#85
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"MM" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:54:21 +0000 (UTC), "Mike Deblis" wrote: No maintenance - its a seled unit with a 25-year life... 25 years doesn't sound very long for what must have been a huge outlay - 50 metre long trenches! I bet it cost an arm and a leg to install. Surely a few fireplaces would have been a bit cheaper. Wood, after all, can be obtained from a sustainable supply. Depends where you are. Here all lumber would have to be brought in by road. Wood miles aren't sustainable. Mary MM |
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#86
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"Owain" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote | Cats are a pretty useful back-up too. | But you have to feed those too. Warm boots are the thing! Cat fur's a nice warm lining .... I skinned a hare recently, it's wonderful! I'm getting some more soon. Meat's tasty too - you get a huge amount from one animal. | Next weekend we'll be under canvas with others in tents also. | They're all moaning about how cold it will be. I say that | if they don't know how to keep warm in winter they shouldn't | be doing it. If they were doing it perhaps it would help keep them warm. Or would the sleeping bag just get clammy? Not if you have good quality duck or goose down one, the sweat doesn't accumulate. We have goose down duvets in our tents and caravans. Mary Owain |
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#87
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"Mike Deblis" wrote in message ... Yes. We opted for an Ice Energy ground heat pump (www.iceenergy.co.uk) - nothing visible, highly efficient (payback is about 5 years in a well insulated hgouse), government grant under the "blue skies" scheme to offset some of the initial outlay, easy to install, works day or night, summer/winter, cloudy/clear and even (like today) when there is a decent amount of snow on it. Not only is it a "green" way of heating, Heat pumps are NOT green. They use electricity that is about 30% efficient from station to home. No maintenance - its a seled unit with a 25-year life... and although these units are newish in the uK, they've been installing 10s of 1000s of them in Sweden (and elsewhere) for many many years. They are horrendously expensive to install. The running cost is about the same as a gas condensing boiler which is "very" cheap to buy in comparison. They tend to work better on low temperature heating and in many cases cannot produce hot enough water in winter for DHW. Working continuously they can over-cool the ground around and have to be switched off to allow the ground to recover. A minor plus point is the no maintenance. Well not quite right as the inhibitor in the loop needs periodic attention. The do have their place, but only in remote areas. The sums have to be done properly beforehand before going heat pump. Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#88
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Heat pumps are NOT green. They use electricity that is about 30% efficient
from station to home. Yes but overall gain is better?... No maintenance - its a seled unit with a 25-year life... and although these units are newish in the uK, they've been installing 10s of 1000s of them in Sweden (and elsewhere) for many many years. They are horrendously expensive to install. The running cost is about the same as a gas condensing boiler which is "very" cheap to buy in comparison. They tend to work better on low temperature heating and in many cases cannot produce hot enough water in winter for DHW. Working continuously they can over-cool the ground around and have to be switched off to allow the ground to recover. A minor plus point is the no maintenance. Well not quite right as the inhibitor in the loop needs periodic attention. The do have their place, but only in remote areas. The sums have to be done properly beforehand before going heat pump. Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. Wouldn't it be better to take the latent heat from the outside air?, which unlike the ground is easily "re-heated"?..... -- Tony Sayer |
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#89
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Mary |
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#90
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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Logic is against them. And I have met tow people who bought them because they liked the technology. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#91
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"tony sayer" wrote in message ... Heat pumps are NOT green. They use electricity that is about 30% efficient from station to home. Yes but overall gain is better?... No maintenance - its a seled unit with a 25-year life... and although these units are newish in the uK, they've been installing 10s of 1000s of them in Sweden (and elsewhere) for many many years. They are horrendously expensive to install. The running cost is about the same as a gas condensing boiler which is "very" cheap to buy in comparison. They tend to work better on low temperature heating and in many cases cannot produce hot enough water in winter for DHW. Working continuously they can over-cool the ground around and have to be switched off to allow the ground to recover. A minor plus point is the no maintenance. Well not quite right as the inhibitor in the loop needs periodic attention. The do have their place, but only in remote areas. The sums have to be done properly beforehand before going heat pump. Many people go for them because it is a fad. Wouldn't it be better to take the latent heat from the outside air?, which unlike the ground is easily "re-heated"?..... Air to water heat pumps perform abysmally in winter and need assistance from an immersion to get hot DHW. They are only good enough to run a "very" low temp underfloor heating system (more extra expense again) . They are not recommended for thermal stores. What determines heat pumps is the COP (Coefficient Of Performance). An electric immersion heater is COP 1, as it turns 100% of the energy used into heat. A condensing boilers is about COP 0.85. Most heat pumps are about 3 to 4, so can just compete with a gas condensing boilers on running costs (electricity is 4 times the cost of gas per kW). I believe some very expensive heat pumps just on the market in the USA are now getting COP 7. This may make them more attractive, especially air to water versions, as no expensive trenches or vertical 60 foot holes to drill. But still the sums have to be done, and the operation assessed properly. Will it deliver enough heat in winter, etc? At COP 7 a ground sourced heat pump may be well worth it. But I fear it will extract heat from the ground faster than the ground can re-heat the surrounding earth, so a very long and/or deep slinky will be required, which is even more capital cost. With all this capital outlay you may as well spend it on insulation and air-tightness of the house, that keep steh hosue warm and cool, and not worry ever again about machines. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#92
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Logic is against them. That doesn't mean that they go for them because it's a fad. And I have met tow people who bought them because they liked the technology. Nor does that. But even if it did, two people don't add up to "many". Mary _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#93
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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Logic is against them. That doesn't mean that they go for them because it's a fad. And I have met tow people who bought them because they liked the technology. Nor does that. But even if it did, two people don't add up to "many". not many are sold. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#94
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Logic is against them. That doesn't mean that they go for them because it's a fad. And I have met tow people who bought them because they liked the technology. Nor does that. But even if it did, two people don't add up to "many". not many are sold. You know so much ... |
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#95
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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... heat pumps ... Mabny people go for them because it is a fad. How do you know that? Logic is against them. That doesn't mean that they go for them because it's a fad. And I have met tow people who bought them because they liked the technology. Nor does that. But even if it did, two people don't add up to "many". not many are sold. You know so much ... yep. What do you know about this? _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#96
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Doctor Evil wrote: "Grunff" wrote in message ... Chris wrote: Judging from the article in New Scientist Ah, that most respected of scientific journals... a few weeks ago, the vast majority of scientific opinion is that global warming is a fact So far so good. with the main discussions on how soon and how bad it is going to get. Well, and whether anything we've done over the past 200 years has made any difference whatesoever to the trend. snip garbage. Global warming is real and a fact and man made snip drivel |
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#97
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"MM" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:29:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" wrote: Get an "Oil Watchman" device that fits to the tank and sends a radio signal to a plugin device inside that shows a number relating to the oil level. Ah, I was wondering whether such a device existed, me being a newbie oil tank owner. At present I stand at the kitchen window with my binoculars and can focus on the little green float in the sight tube which I have also marked off, though in inches. I must say, I am pleasantly surprised at how little the boiler consumes, but I'd still far rather have gas and forget about both the tank and the necessity to have to order refills, both pains in the veritable backside. You can place a regular top up order with most of the big oil companies which avoids your need to keep an eye on your tank. This does of course remove your potential savings by stopping you "ringing around" for your next fill up price. |
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#98
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:30:40 +0000 (UTC), John wrote:
You can place a regular top up order with most of the big oil companies which avoids your need to keep an eye on your tank. This does of course remove your potential savings by stopping you "ringing around" for your next fill up price. Also if you have an account with a decent supplier they'll call you when they think you might be about to run out. Not quite as good as monitoring the sight gauge though. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#99
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... snip You know so much ... yep. What do you know about this? Probably more than you did before your Googling.... |
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#100
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... snip You know so much ... yep. What do you know about this? Probably more than you did before your Googling.... I love it. A typical loonie reaction. When I astound them they say I got it from Google. Classic, truly classic. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#101
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... snip You know so much ... yep. What do you know about this? Probably more than you did before your Googling.... I love it. A typical loonie reaction. When I astound them they say I got it from Google. Classic, truly classic. Look you moron, there is a (later) thread that is asking "Should balancing gate valves be on flow or return?" which you have not posted to, if you really do know what you are talking about than you would have answered the posters question, but you have not - and why not, because you are nothing but a Googling moron who knows nothing more than how to play with yourself ! |
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#102
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:28:07 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk"
wrote: Doctor Evil wrote: Heat pumps and underfloor heating have a very high capital cost. Best use that money on insulation and air-tightness and have virtually no bills at all. A cheap LPG condensing boiler is all you need for DHW and partial CH. Cheap to install and very low bills and you don't use much. I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? Hi, Ideally it escapes though the ceiling and walls of the building, which is why cement render, foil backed plasterboard and vinyl wallpaper are not always a good idea. Heat recovery ventilators are a good way to allow ventilation without losing too much heat. In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en030116-4/en030116-4.html cheers, Pete. |
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#103
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message et... snip You know so much ... yep. What do you know about this? Probably more than you did before your Googling.... I love it. A typical loonie reaction. When I astound them they say I got it from Google. Classic, truly classic. Look you moron, More classic reactions. snip offensive drivel _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#104
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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... snip Look you moron, More classic reactions. snip offensive drivel Only offensive to you, but it's the truth about you to everyone else ! Just seen yet another thread that your expertise has passed by, namely " Draining CH and hot water?". If you are the highly skilled plumber / heating engineer and not just the Googling boy of self abuse you would have posted to that group also.... Does your mummy know you're skipping 'sckool' again ?... |
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#105
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"Pete C" wrote in message I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: Increasing oxygen doesn't get rid of steam ... Mary |
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#106
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Nick Finnigan wrote: "Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.com... On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:22:10 -0000, J Ashton wrote: I am tempted though by the 'green' electricity you can get, I like the thought of being able to be at least a bit environmentally friendly. "Green" stuff costs more than "normal"... 'Juice' costs the same as 'normal' npower electricity, That's because NPower are required by law to buy a certain percentage of their electricity from non-carbon sources. They then sell that electricity to Juice customers (like me) who get a nice warm fuzzy feeling - but haven't actually contributed to saving the planet :-( (Well, we do a bit. Juice promise to put so much per kWh into a fund for developing green energy). I found this out when I was reviewing our electricity, and check out the Friends of the Earth website. The conclusion seems to be that there aren't any reliably green electricity suppliers. |
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#107
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"Pete C" wrote in message ... On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:28:07 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote: Doctor Evil wrote: Heat pumps and underfloor heating have a very high capital cost. Best use that money on insulation and air-tightness and have virtually no bills at all. A cheap LPG condensing boiler is all you need for DHW and partial CH. Cheap to install and very low bills and you don't use much. I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? Hi, Ideally it escapes though the ceiling and walls of the building, which is why cement render, foil backed plasterboard and vinyl wallpaper are not always a good idea. They are a good idea if you ventilate right. The problem is that most don't understand why a building needs to breath to protect its fabric; to take way excess moisture (water vapour). Th other aspects of changing air is for people to breath and take away foul smells. Heat recovery ventilators are a good way to allow ventilation without losing too much heat. Only if the house is pretty air-tight. If it is not air-tight then you are ventilating twice and drawing out heat which you have paid for through your bills. In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/off...116-4/en030116 -4.html Or more to counter the high pollution levels. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#108
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Mary Fisher wrote:
"Pete C" wrote in message I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: Increasing oxygen doesn't get rid of steam ... Mary The appropiate technique is to have your hot sweaty air exhaust via a heat exchanger, so it heats incoming cold air on the way in |
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#109
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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:45:29 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: Increasing oxygen doesn't get rid of steam ... Hi, A lot of the high end ones can do dehumidification as well. cheers, Pete. |
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#110
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"Pete C" wrote in message ... On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:45:29 -0000, "Mary Fisher" wrote: "Pete C" wrote in message I'm confused .... Where does the expired moisture (breating) and steam from showers etc go in an airtight house? In Japan there are oxygen enriching air conditioners available, that create oxygen enriched air from outdoors and use it to maintain optimal indoor oxygen levels: Increasing oxygen doesn't get rid of steam ... Hi, A lot of the high end ones can do dehumidification as well. That's not what was said. |
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#111
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:40:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: I don't know but everything has to start somewhere. For instance, I'm looking into www.windsave.com We have to put our money where our mouth is. How much are these? Mark |
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