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Cooling a house
My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open
and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? sPoNiX |
Cooling a house
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? sPoNiX The rule in our house when it's hot (as it is today) is to close all curtains on the south side and open doors to allow any moving air to get around. It works. Mary |
Cooling a house
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? The hole into the loft space would allow warm moist air to enter in winter creating condensation up there. Try doubling the insulation up there using Rockwool, aim for 250-300mm in total. This prevents heat from entering the rooms below from the baking hot loft. It also keeps heat in, in winter. Then any heat gain in the upstairs rooms will be taken away via through flow ventilation from the windows. My loft has heavy insulation and the upstairs rooms are far cooler than the neighbours as a result. last August the were uncomfortable at night, while were just right. |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:44:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: The rule in our house when it's hot (as it is today) is to close all curtains on the south side and open doors to allow any moving air to get around. It works. We already do that..we also have blackout blinds that we use to prevent the sunlight getting in but it's still too hot. Fans simply circulate the hot air in the room..what I recon we need is a through draft. I have just spotted these American things: http://www.quietcoolfan.com/ look towards the bottom of the page and they seem to vent directly into the loft! Will there be any problems venting fans directly into a UK loft? I'm thinking maybe one of those bathroom extractors in each bedroom to suck the hot air into the loft. sPoNiX |
Cooling a house
sPoNiX wrote:
My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? sPoNiX First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. Secondly, yes, if you can find a source of cooler air, suck out the hot and dump it wherever it will leak away - be careful though - if the roof is already hot, pumping hot air into it isn't going to cool the room if the insulation between roof and room is so much garbage. better to arrange an exhaust pipe outside somewhere. |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:55:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. I hadn't thought that some of the heat could be radiating through the ceiling. I shall take some measurements and see if it's a problem sPoNIX |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:55:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. Hmmmm:http://jambalaya.bayswaterfarm.com/archives/000026.html "a hefty dose of loft insulation will keep warmth in during summer as well as winter" |
Cooling a house
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:55:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. Hmmmm:http://jambalaya.bayswaterfarm.com/archives/000026.html "a hefty dose of loft insulation will keep warmth in during summer as well as winter" If you ventilate it will take the warmth out of the rooms in summer. |
Cooling a house
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. That is, of course, why traditional houses in hot countries tend to be single storey. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Put whopping great extractor fans downstairs, to suck the hot air out before it has time to rise upstairs and insulate the loft well, so that heat does not permeate down from the roof. If you simply want personal comfort, rather than an overall lowering of the temperature, fit ceiling fans above your bed and wherever you usually sit. Colin Bignell |
Cooling a house
Mary Fisher wrote:
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? sPoNiX The rule in our house when it's hot (as it is today) is to close all curtains on the south side and open doors to allow any moving air to get around. It works. Mary We find it effective to open doors/windows on the north side of the house at ground level and the on south side of the house on upper floors. Draughts then tend to flow through the house bringing in cooler air and expelling the hotter stuff. Nick Broks |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:52:50 GMT, sPoNiX wrote:
Fans simply circulate the hot air in the room. Are these small high speed jobbies or a ceiling fan? Ceiling fans are very effective at keeping rooms comfortable, they set up a a gentle circulation through the entire room not just a little bit of it at high speed. what I recon we need is a through draft. Well that will bring the warm air from outside in, modern houses have very low thermal mass and are almost hermetically sealed. There is no where for the heat from appliances or the occupants to go. This place just about made 25C inside last August when it was in the low 30's outside. Generally it hovers around 21/22C in the summer. Thats the effect of thick solid stone walls that soak up lots of heat (and also release it in the winter) what you mustn't do it let the place cool down otherwise it takes several days to become comfortable again. Will there be any problems venting fans directly into a UK loft? Probably not during the warm spell but I'd be worried about condensation either in the wee small hours or during the cooler periods of the year. Far better to dump the warm (damp) air outside and draw air in from low down on the north side. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
Cooling a house
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message ... Mary Fisher wrote: "sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? sPoNiX The rule in our house when it's hot (as it is today) is to close all curtains on the south side and open doors to allow any moving air to get around. It works. Mary We find it effective to open doors/windows on the north side of the house at ground level and the on south side of the house on upper floors. Draughts then tend to flow through the house bringing in cooler air and expelling the hotter stuff. Good idea, same principle though - ventilation. Free :-) Mary Nick Broks |
Cooling a house
In article om,
"Dave Liquorice" writes: On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:52:50 GMT, sPoNiX wrote: Fans simply circulate the hot air in the room. Are these small high speed jobbies or a ceiling fan? Ceiling fans are very effective at keeping rooms comfortable, they set up a a gentle circulation through the entire room not just a little bit of it at high speed. Ceiling fans raise the air temperature around you, but cool you. See... http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...net.uk.sun.com -- Andrew Gabriel |
Cooling a house
"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I was thinking, could I fit small unducted extractor fans in the upstairs ceilings such that they blow the heat directly into the loft? Cooler air would then be drawn in via the windows making the room cooler. Is there any problem with blowing air directly into the loft in this way? Would it cool the upstairs rooms or make additional problems? Don't put the air in the loft. It could be very humid given the current high temperatures and cause condensation in the loft. Vent it directly outside via the eaves using flexible or fixed pipeing as designed for these fans anyway in bathroom applications. |
Cooling a house
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.com... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:52:50 GMT, sPoNiX wrote: Fans simply circulate the hot air in the room. Are these small high speed jobbies or a ceiling fan? Ceiling fans are very effective at keeping rooms comfortable, they set up a a gentle circulation through the entire room not just a little bit of it at high speed. what I recon we need is a through draft. Well that will bring the warm air from outside in, modern houses have very low thermal mass and are almost hermetically sealed. They are? Er, no they are not. 40% of heat loss in modern homes is via air leaks. There is no where for the heat from appliances or the occupants to go. This place just about made 25C inside last August when it was in the low 30's outside. Generally it hovers around 21/22C in the summer. Thats the effect of thick solid stone walls that soak up lots of heat (and also release it in the winter) An interpersonal sore in the walls? what you mustn't do it let the place cool down otherwise it takes several days to become comfortable again. In short the heat is stored in the walls. The heat that enters the walls you paid for. Will there be any problems venting fans directly into a UK loft? Probably not during the warm spell but I'd be worried about condensation either in the wee small hours or during the cooler periods of the year. Far better to dump the warm (damp) air outside and draw air in from low down on the north side. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
"Graham Wilson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:41:17 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. The unit was on and running today. It turned the room into a fridge. Superb unit. About £300 though - so not cheap. However, it is noisy. You couldn't sleep with it on. That was my thought about all the talk about fans - apart from the power use. Today has been so ennervating that I had to go for a lie-down this afternoon but it happens on so few days a year that I don't think I could be bothered buying a special unit to counteract it. It might happen when I'm not here so it would be wsted. and who wants to be in a fridge anyway? Just my thought, I'm not trying to convince anyone else. Mary Graham |
Cooling a house
"IMM" wrote in message
... An interpersonal sore in the walls? Pardon? -- Andy |
Cooling a house
Graham Wilson wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:41:17 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. The unit was on and running today. It turned the room into a fridge. Superb unit. About £300 though - so not cheap. However, it is noisy. You couldn't sleep with it on. Graham Whats the power consumption of this beastie? Regards, NT |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:17:48 +0100, Graham Wilson
wrote: On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:41:17 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: My house is very hot, especially upstairs. Even with the windows open and a fan blowing it gets hot as the fans just blow the heat round and round the room. What's needed is somewhere for the heat to go. I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. We got ours from Homebase a few years ago and is one of the ones with a real external heat exchanger. I 'fitted' it in the (unused) middle bedroom (of our 3 bed 1897 (end of) terraced house) with the heat exchanger on the colder North facing wall. It also can turn that one room into a fridge pretty quickly or make the whole top floor very cold over a couple of hours (we did an experiment with the upstairs doors left open and polythene across the landing etc). So 'nice' infact you don't want to go back into the rest of the house! My next 'experiment' would be to knock a couple of holes through between our bedroom and the middle bedroom (one high, one low and a brick sized) with adjustable vents over the top with the thought that the cold air will flow into our room while the hot air will go back into the middle room to be cooled (this could be fan assisted if needed). If it worked out then we might also extend it to the back (box) room for our daughter but possibly using some rectangular trunking under the ceiling over to above her bed as it's built up onto the wall! The unit is pretty quiet anyway and we were able to sleep easily when we did the open door experiment. We also have the large ceiling fans that that work pretty well and are very quiet on 'slow'. T i m |
Cooling a house
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:17:48 +0100, Graham Wilson
wrote: I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. The unit was on and running today. It turned the room into a fridge. Superb unit. About £300 though - so not cheap. However, it is noisy. You couldn't sleep with it on. We have one but it only does one room. Also, it's a bit of a problem knowing what to do with the duct. sPoNiX |
Cooling a house
(sPoNiX) wrote in message ...
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:55:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. Hmmmm:http://jambalaya.bayswaterfarm.com/archives/000026.html "a hefty dose of loft insulation will keep warmth in during summer as well as winter" That's the problem with sweeping generalisations, without explanation or consideration of individual factors. See for yourself by measuring the temperature in your loft. If it's hotter than the rooms below then the heat can only go one way - down. Extra insulation will stop that. If the loft is cooler then more insulation will keep the heat in the rooms. I suspect your loft will be warmer and more insulation will be a good thing. MBQ |
Cooling a house
"Andrew" wrote in message om... (sPoNiX) wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:55:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: First off you should insulate the upstairs ceilings better. This reduces heat uptake from the roof space. Hmmmm:http://jambalaya.bayswaterfarm.com/archives/000026.html "a hefty dose of loft insulation will keep warmth in during summer as well as winter" That's the problem with sweeping generalisations, without explanation or consideration of individual factors. See for yourself by measuring the temperature in your loft. If it's hotter than the rooms below then the heat can only go one way - down. Extra insulation will stop that. If the loft is cooler then more insulation will keep the heat in the rooms. I suspect your loft will be warmer and more insulation will be a good thing. In the USA in some states it is common to have a large fan on the gable end of the loft. This extracts all the hot air inside cooling the loft. They also use it to extract heavy moisture laden air to prevent condensation. Tests have proved that heavy insulation and a vapour barrier is best as the running cost, not mention the installation cost, of the fan is not worth it. |
Cooling a house
In article , Huge wrote:
So common, in fact, that in some 27 years of regular visits to the US, I've never seen one. Google gives 16,400 hits on "attic fan" As this is a d-i-y group: http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35693815 gives you instructions -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm |
Cooling a house
"Tony Bryer" wrote in message ... In article , Huge wrote: So common, in fact, that in some 27 years of regular visits to the US, I've never seen one. Being in a boozy haze he would not see one. 27 years of visiting Mickey Mouse each time. My oh my! Google gives 16,400 hits on "attic fan" As this is a d-i-y group: http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35693815 gives you instructions -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm |
Cooling a house
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net... "Graham Wilson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:41:17 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. The unit was on and running today. It turned the room into a fridge. Superb unit. About £300 though - so not cheap. However, it is noisy. You couldn't sleep with it on. That was my thought about all the talk about fans - apart from the power use. I have a two unit portable air conditioner. I can sleep with it on, but Barbara cannot. What I tend to do is use the air-con during the day to chill the bedroom to about 15C and leave it off overnight. It makes a nice refuge room during the day too, if I need to recover from excessive heat. Colin Bignell |
Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
In article ,
(N. Thornton) writes: (sPoNiX) wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:17:48 +0100, Graham Wilson wrote: I purchased a an air conditioning unit from B&Q. It is an Amcor 12,000 BTU unit with a tumble-dryer type pipe that you shove out of an open door or window. The unit was on and running today. It turned the room into a fridge. Superb unit. About £300 though - so not cheap. However, it is noisy. You couldn't sleep with it on. We have one but it only does one room. Also, it's a bit of a problem knowing what to do with the duct. sPoNiX If you feed the hot duct to the cooling side it'll cool it off, and there'll be no more hot air to get rid of ;) .... if you ignore the laws of thermodynamics ;-) -- Andrew Gabriel |
Cooling a house
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:29:12 +0100, "nightjar"
wrote: I have a two unit portable air conditioner. Two Unit? Graham |
Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:10:21 +0100, T i m wrote:
We got ours from Homebase a few years ago and is one of the ones with a real external heat exchanger. I 'fitted' it in the (unused) middle bedroom (of our 3 bed 1897 (end of) terraced house) with the heat exchanger on the colder North facing wall. How do you mean by external heat exchanger? You say you fitted the exchanger on the north facing wall. Do you mean you fitted through the wall? Wickes used to do a Phillips air conditioning unit a few years ago that was designed for a conservatory. The idea was that you made a square hole through the wall of the conservatory about 18 inches wide and about 12 inches high. The unit sat half inside and half outside. It was bolted onto a frame to prevent someone from sliding it out and entering the property through the hole. Graham |
Cooling a house
On 9 Jun 2004 16:34:35 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote: In article , (N. Thornton) writes: If you feed the hot duct to the cooling side it'll cool it off, and there'll be no more hot air to get rid of ;) ... if you ignore the laws of thermodynamics ;-) As a solicitor, I got around this problem by lodging a successful appeal against the laws of thermodynamics. (:-) Graham |
Cooling a house
"Graham Wilson" wrote in message ... On 9 Jun 2004 16:34:35 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , (N. Thornton) writes: If you feed the hot duct to the cooling side it'll cool it off, and there'll be no more hot air to get rid of ;) ... if you ignore the laws of thermodynamics ;-) As a solicitor, I got around this problem by lodging a successful appeal against the laws of thermodynamics. (:-) I'll remember that when I need a good solicitor. If you were successful, that is ... Mary Graham |
Cooling a house
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:48:26 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: "Graham Wilson" wrote in message .. . On 9 Jun 2004 16:34:35 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: ... if you ignore the laws of thermodynamics ;-) As a solicitor, I got around this problem by lodging a successful appeal against the laws of thermodynamics. (:-) I'll remember that when I need a good solicitor. If you were successful, that is ... I was successful. It wasn't my fault that they decided to breach the order. (:-) Graham |
Cooling a house
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Cooling a house
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in message ...
In article , (N. Thornton) writes: If you feed the hot duct to the cooling side it'll cool it off, and there'll be no more hot air to get rid of ;) ... if you ignore the laws of thermodynamics ;-) If you do that too then you get a repeated-cycle cooling machine capable of reaching absolute zero. For my initial suggestion one need only not think at all. When you get as sophisticated as being aware there are laws of thermodynamics involved, and thinking up excuses to avoid them, then you can really achieve stuff! Regards, NT |
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