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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
(Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)!
I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. There is also a 15mm open ended copper pipe and two 110mm dia. holes also at first floor level. The hood flue sticks out by about 20mm, the boiler flue by about 300mm and the 15mm copper pipe by about 50mm, the two 110mm dia. holes are flush but it looks like they have (grey) soil pipe fittings and are waiting to have an external stack fitted. The offending wall is about 1m from the wall of my house and the boundary fence on that side (from the bottom of the garden to his house is my responsibility, I don't know if this matters). The passage is the only access from my back garden to my front garden and is used regularly, especially by the kids!! I know that the condensate from condensing boilers is acidic and that the flue can produce nuisance plumes of vapour and I guess it is not good to have these discharging directly onto my property. I am also concerned about the odours from the cooker hood flue. I'm not a controversial neighbour and probably wouldn't have minded him doing these jobs if only he'd discussed it with me first. Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. TIA, Kev |
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#2
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message
m (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. He sounds like a right #. He didn't want you to have the opportunity to refuse permission obviously. The houses on the site I am working at all have similar utility problems(?) like that. I would have queried that if I was buying one of them. One inmate even had the washing machine outlet from next door pouring into the trap for it with a section of the outlet missing and no attempt to put the pipe through the grid in the trap. How the surveyor missed that escapes me. Perhaps he is liable? I have no idea of the legality of it all but there is a thread on here somewhere about not getting into disputes with your neighbours if you want to sell up. If you do want to persue it psyche yourself up to take no nonsense. If you are unhappy with it, tell him and stick to your guns. DO NOT GIVE AN INCH! Don't smile and don't apologise in any respect. Just state your case plainly and curtly and leave it at that. Don't allow any argument to develop. If he wants to discuss it further let him do it later. Just say next time you see him: "Look; I'm not hapy with this, so and so and so and so." Then just walk away. Don't speak your mind don't tell him your reasoning, just explain what you are unhappy with. It isn't a dispute and you haven't given any ground or tried to second guess him. The onus is then on him. That in my considerable opinion is how to handle most events of that nature. (That and breaking windows.) Too many people these days don't know where the boundaries are, because too many people are afraid to put their feet down. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
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#3
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my
neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. There is also a 15mm open ended copper pipe and two 110mm dia. holes also at first floor level. The hood flue sticks out by about 20mm, the boiler flue by about 300mm and the 15mm copper pipe by about 50mm, the two 110mm dia. holes are flush but it looks like they have (grey) soil pipe fittings and are waiting to have an external stack fitted. The offending wall is about 1m from the wall of my house and the boundary fence on that side (from the bottom of the garden to his house is my responsibility, I don't know if this matters). OK, i`m not a gas fitter or lawyer, so no doubt a more knowledgeable answer will follow shortly, but... If its a fanned flue then there might be an issue with the installer - most want a horizontal spacing of over a 1m I think - I think mine (a non-condensing) wants about 1.5m minimum I thought condensate drains had (*HAD*) to be plumbed in to a soil stack or similar. If he is putting in provisions for a soil stack, it sounds like he`s going to have to dig up that passageway to get it into the sewer at some stage ! I`d say the first step would be to check your deeds urgently to figure out whether the passageway is a shared access (whether currently used as one or not), and who the land belongs to. If its a shared access it may be a joint responsibility rather than your land. I am also concerned about the odours from the cooker hood flue. I probably would be too if it was over my boundary - irrespective of any smells - as it might incur a right of access for maintenance purposes in future (which he probably has anyway for repointing the brickwork etc) Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. Perhaps posting to uk.legal or uk.legal.moderated might be in order too -- Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email --- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) --- |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Kev Parkin wrote: I know that the condensate from condensing boilers is acidic and that the flue can produce nuisance plumes of vapour and I guess it is not good to have these discharging directly onto my property. I am also concerned about the odours from the cooker hood flue. As regards the cooking smells, I can't really see what the difference would be if the hood outlet was just round the corner from where it is on a wall you'd obviously have no interest in. Whether you notice them will depend on the prevailing wind conditions. A bit like the constant barbecues we get round here... -- *Life is hard; then you nap Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Snipped
Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. Building regs approved document J - link below. http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...eg_027748.hcsp From my understanding a boiler flue must be at least 600mm away from a facing boundary. Therefore if his wall (through which the flue projects) forms the boundary then this arrangement is not acceptable - speak to Building Control Officer at the local council. A. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message m... (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. Phone and ask your local building control officer why he approved it. He will of course be right round as I expect he hasn't heard about it. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:18:59 +0100, "Andy" wrote:
Snipped Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. Building regs approved document J - link below. http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...eg_027748.hcsp From my understanding a boiler flue must be at least 600mm away from a facing boundary. Therefore if his wall (through which the flue projects) forms the boundary then this arrangement is not acceptable - speak to Building Control Officer at the local council. A. Interesting point. The distance of 1m would allow the safety requirements to be met - i.e. 600mm or more from facing wall, but the Building Regulations do define a boundary as "the boundary of the land or buildings belonging to and under the control of the building owner" ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article , Andy
writes Snipped Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. Building regs approved document J - link below. http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...e/odpm_breg_02 7748.hcsp From my understanding a boiler flue must be at least 600mm away from a facing boundary. Therefore if his wall (through which the flue projects) forms the boundary then this arrangement is not acceptable - speak to Building Control Officer at the local council. A. Perhaps your best bet might be to take some measurements and/or pictures and then get the local BCO to have a look at them, and see if he reckons any wrongdoings been dun. Much cheaper and far less bother then falling out unnecessarily with a neighbour and lining the plush pockets of me 'learned friends  -- Tony Sayer |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:33:15 +0100, "G&M" wrote:
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message om... (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. Phone and ask your local building control officer why he approved it. He will of course be right round as I expect he hasn't heard about it. He wouldn't have had to approve it if the installation was done by a CORGI fitter since CORGI has an approved self-certification scheme which exempts the need to inform Building Control. If the neighbour DIYed it, then he should have submitted a building notice. If A.N. Other did it for money, then that is illegal and CORGI could have an interest. However, how the OP would find out is another thing, and whether CORGI would then be interested or have any powers to act is another matter. It's still worth a BCO discussion on the boundary issue at least. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message
m (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. Four interesting questions he (1) is he allowed he put the pipes etc over the border and (2) even if he made the outlets flush with the side of his house is he allowed to discharge into your 'airspace'. (3) are you allowed to remove the offending bits of pipe and (4) are you allowed to block the pipes? Sounds like uk.legal would be a good place to ask all this. R |
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#12
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Andy wrote: From my understanding a boiler flue must be at least 600mm away from a facing boundary. Therefore if his wall (through which the flue projects) forms the boundary then this arrangement is not acceptable - speak to Building Control Officer at the local council. It sounds like the passageway between the houses is shared - so where is the boundary in this case? I've got a similar thing - my house is a Victorian semi, and there's about a 1 metre passage shared with next door. Just nicely too small to allow wheelbarrow access because of downpipes. And if they wanted to vent anything into that passage I wouldn't object - unless it were to cause physical damage to my walls. -- *What happens when none of your bees wax? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Robert wrote: Four interesting questions he (1) is he allowed he put the pipes etc over the border and (2) even if he made the outlets flush with the side of his house is he allowed to discharge into your 'airspace'. (3) are you allowed to remove the offending bits of pipe and (4) are you allowed to block the pipes? Sounds like uk.legal would be a good place to ask all this. Sounds like a good way of ruining relations with a neighbour. Just how much time do you spend in the passageway between two houses if it's only a metre wide? If you took any action which forced him to alter the layout of the inside of his house because of this, I'd call you unreasonable. -- *When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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#14
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"G&M" wrote in message ...
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message m... (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. Phone and ask your local building control officer why he approved it. He will of course be right round as I expect he hasn't heard about it. Hi Kev, Fan flued boilers should have there flues positioned so they are more than 600mm from the boundry. If it is less than 2metres from the ground it should have a guard round it. The flue should be more than 600mm from a facing wall. To quote from a glowworm condensing boiler instruction book "The flue will produce a plume of condensation in cold weather, so specia care must be takenin siting the flue terminal so as not to caue a nuisanceto adjacent property" As you say there is a 15mm pipe stickng out of te wall I would guss it is a combi boiler and this is the saftey pipe from the pressure valve. If it is then it is incorrectly fitted. if the valve were to blow, steam and boiling water at 3bar (thats 43.5psi. in old money, twice the pressure of most car tires) would be comming out of this pipe. Just imamage walking past when the valve blows...... scarred for life...... If this pipe was a condensate drian from the boiler I would expect it to be 22mm pipe and this should go into a soil pipe or drain gulley. Does your garden go up to your neighbours wall, if it does, from what you say, it would appear that it is an illegal installation. If there is a 600mm gap on there side of the fence,between the fence and the wall then it might just be legal. David. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"G&M" wrote in message ...
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message m... (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. Phone and ask your local building control officer why he approved it. He will of course be right round as I expect he hasn't heard about it. Kev, Just re-read your post, you say the flue protroudes through the wall by about 300mm this is a no no. Not knowing the make of the boiler, but most flues only protude the wall by between 75mm and 125mm 3/5 inches. depending on make of boiler. David. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message om... Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev (Andrew Gabriel) wrote in message ... In article , (David H) writes: Kev, Just re-read your post, you say the flue protroudes through the wall by about 300mm this is a no no. Not knowing the make of the boiler, but most flues only protude the wall by between 75mm and 125mm 3/5 inches. depending on make of boiler. I've noticed quite a few balanced fanned flues protruding very much more than this recently. Sometimes it might be because they are below eaves, and they have been installed to protrude past the edge of the eaves. Looks rather unsightly, but seemingly becoming rather common. What about access for the installation? Did they trespass for this purpose or have I missed something |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article , Andy Hall
writes On 3 Jun 2004 14:36:38 -0700, (Kev Parkin) wrote: Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev Kev, I think that you have to decide what outcome you are looking for and its implications. If you go and see him now, what are you going to say? Do you just want to mark his card to the extent that you are disappointed that he did this without asking and leave it there? Do you want him to get the probably obvious issue of the pressure relief pipe redone properly so that it is safe? From the perspective of the flue, where he has it now - i.e. 1m from a facing wall, meets the gas safety requirements but there is the possibility of encroachment on your property by virtue of the Building Regulations and the distance of the flue from the boundary - minus something. Do you want him to move the boiler? If so, you'll need to check the facts first with the BCO. I think if it were me, I'd decide how far I'm willing to take the issue first and what I want for an outcome, then check whether I have the backing from a regulatory perspective for it. I would also consider the implications if it did become an "official" dispute and factor that in as well. Only then would I go and see him, having got a full hand of cards. If you go and see him without checking the possible regulatory remedies, then you could make the issue worse if he tells you to take a hike, because you then have to go back to an inflamed situation with the big guns, or if there is no basis for compalint, you are stuck. If you do it on a "were you aware that" and "this is a potential safety issue" and "I'm sure you don't want to create a hazard" basis and then mention that you've looked into the gas safety and building regulations if you need to do so, I think that you can make it a lot simpler. Perhaps the best thing to do is to seek the advice of the BCO and ask him if and when he sees the neighbour would he not mention that there has been a complaint. He's just there to inspect building works. After all if its a matter of regulations being infringed then where are you at fault?. Its a statutory thing and nothing to do with you which is a good way to view it, as if he has infringed any law or reg than he won't be blaming you for "dropping him in it" so no unnecessary upset betwixt U and your neighbour. After all you never know when you might need their agreement to do something you want to do!..... -- Tony Sayer |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message om... Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev just to throw in some more suggestions to the pot, you may wish to discuss having the flue / extractor outlets extended with an external stack if appropriate. I would certainly expect your neighbour to tell you what the 15mm copper pipes are for and what they may be discharging.. In fact I would insist on it. If they boiler is a condensing type and one of these is a discharge pipe then there is no option but to get the problem rectified. In fact I wouldn't be happy no matter what the pipes could potentially discharge, I would never want them potentially discharging into a regularly used passageway... get him to pipe them around the corner to his own back garden. At the end of the day it may create some bad feeling.. you can always give him the opportunity to lay the blame on whoever carried out the work.. Good luck with this Kev I think we are all interested in the outcome. all the best David |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
I never see the neighbour to speak to, he's a young single guy who's
already had a run in with his neighbour on the other side, (he's a BMW driver if that makes any difference!), however, I've spoken to the local planning guru, who, don't have an application from him and from my description think i have a valid case and they have advised me to try to sort it out amicably and then, if i don't have any success get them to come round and have an official look at it. So I've dropped a friendly note through his door sort of saying that I think the installers may have made a mistake and that it might be worth getting an independant expert to cast his eye over it as if it needs to be modified it's going to be easier to do it now rather than when the thing is fully installed. I don't want to be a pain but at the same time I'd rather it was sorted now than have aggro if someone gets injured as a result of the installation etc. And all the hardware IS on my land! Kev Andy Hall wrote in message . .. On 3 Jun 2004 14:36:38 -0700, (Kev Parkin) wrote: Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev Kev, I think that you have to decide what outcome you are looking for and its implications. If you go and see him now, what are you going to say? Do you just want to mark his card to the extent that you are disappointed that he did this without asking and leave it there? Do you want him to get the probably obvious issue of the pressure relief pipe redone properly so that it is safe? From the perspective of the flue, where he has it now - i.e. 1m from a facing wall, meets the gas safety requirements but there is the possibility of encroachment on your property by virtue of the Building Regulations and the distance of the flue from the boundary - minus something. Do you want him to move the boiler? If so, you'll need to check the facts first with the BCO. I think if it were me, I'd decide how far I'm willing to take the issue first and what I want for an outcome, then check whether I have the backing from a regulatory perspective for it. I would also consider the implications if it did become an "official" dispute and factor that in as well. Only then would I go and see him, having got a full hand of cards. If you go and see him without checking the possible regulatory remedies, then you could make the issue worse if he tells you to take a hike, because you then have to go back to an inflamed situation with the big guns, or if there is no basis for compalint, you are stuck. If you do it on a "were you aware that" and "this is a potential safety issue" and "I'm sure you don't want to create a hazard" basis and then mention that you've looked into the gas safety and building regulations if you need to do so, I think that you can make it a lot simpler. Just a thought.... .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On 4 Jun 2004 08:47:04 -0700, (Kev Parkin) wrote:
I never see the neighbour to speak to, he's a young single guy who's already had a run in with his neighbour on the other side, (he's a BMW driver if that makes any difference!), There's your problem right there then :-) however, I've spoken to the local planning guru, who, don't have an application from him and from my description think i have a valid case and they have advised me to try to sort it out amicably and then, if i don't have any success get them to come round and have an official look at it. It isn't a planning department issue, though, Kev. If there is a statutory aspect, it will be with building control - different department, different legislation. So I've dropped a friendly note through his door sort of saying that I think the installers may have made a mistake and that it might be worth getting an independant expert to cast his eye over it as if it needs to be modified it's going to be easier to do it now rather than when the thing is fully installed. That's a good way to do it. I don't want to be a pain but at the same time I'd rather it was sorted now than have aggro if someone gets injured as a result of the installation etc. And all the hardware IS on my land! Absolutely. Kev Andy Hall wrote in message . .. On 3 Jun 2004 14:36:38 -0700, (Kev Parkin) wrote: Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev Kev, I think that you have to decide what outcome you are looking for and its implications. If you go and see him now, what are you going to say? Do you just want to mark his card to the extent that you are disappointed that he did this without asking and leave it there? Do you want him to get the probably obvious issue of the pressure relief pipe redone properly so that it is safe? From the perspective of the flue, where he has it now - i.e. 1m from a facing wall, meets the gas safety requirements but there is the possibility of encroachment on your property by virtue of the Building Regulations and the distance of the flue from the boundary - minus something. Do you want him to move the boiler? If so, you'll need to check the facts first with the BCO. I think if it were me, I'd decide how far I'm willing to take the issue first and what I want for an outcome, then check whether I have the backing from a regulatory perspective for it. I would also consider the implications if it did become an "official" dispute and factor that in as well. Only then would I go and see him, having got a full hand of cards. If you go and see him without checking the possible regulatory remedies, then you could make the issue worse if he tells you to take a hike, because you then have to go back to an inflamed situation with the big guns, or if there is no basis for compalint, you are stuck. If you do it on a "were you aware that" and "this is a potential safety issue" and "I'm sure you don't want to create a hazard" basis and then mention that you've looked into the gas safety and building regulations if you need to do so, I think that you can make it a lot simpler. Just a thought.... .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#24
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: (he's a BMW driver if that makes any difference!), There's your problem right there then :-) And I thought you appreciated fine tools, Andy. -- *A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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#25
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message
om... Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev BS5440-1(2000) says: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" When locating a fanned flued room sealed appliance, the position of the terminal should be such as to minimize the risk of re-entry of combustion products through openable windows, vents etc. of opposite or adjacent properties. A plume of products of combustion may be readily observed, especially in cold weather or if a condensing appliance is involved. It is recommended that a fanned flue terminal should be positioned as follows: a) at least 2 m from an opening in a building directly opposite; and b) so that the products of combustion are not directed to discharge across a boundary. In the absence of any specific instruction from the manufacturer, a suitable guard should be provided whenever a terminal is fitted less than 2 m above ground, above a balcony or above a flat roof to which people have access. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" Approved Document J (2002) says: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" Flues discharging at low level near boundaries 1.51 Flues discharging at low level near boundaries should do so at positions where the building owner will always be able to ensure safe flue gas dispersal. A way of achieving this where owners of adjacent land could build up to the boundary would be to adopt the suggestions in Diagrams 3.4 or 4.2, as relevant. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" (Diagram 3.4 shows the terminal kept 600mm or more from the boundary line for a gas fired fanned balanced flue; 4.2 refers to oil-fired appliances.) From a gas safety perspective you (or a subsequent owner) might build an extension on your property up to the boundary which would then make the termination of his boiler unsafe. I'm not sure whether his installation would be classed as Not to Current Standards (NCS) or At Risk (AR) but as a new installation it certainly should not have been done in this way. The local CORGI inspector might have something to say about it. I also agree about the pressure relief discharge pipe: potentially very dangerous to you and your family and anyone else using your property. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Subject: Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
From: (Kev Parkin) Date: 03/06/04 01:48 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: (Apologies if this double posts - tried once and google crashed)! I have just got back from a long weekend away to find that my neighbour has installed a cooker hood flue (at eye level) and a boiler flue (at first floor level) through the external wall of his house that bounds my property. There is also a 15mm open ended copper pipe and two 110mm dia. holes also at first floor level. The hood flue sticks out by about 20mm, the boiler flue by about 300mm and the 15mm copper pipe by about 50mm, the two 110mm dia. holes are flush but it looks like they have (grey) soil pipe fittings and are waiting to have an external stack fitted. The offending wall is about 1m from the wall of my house and the boundary fence on that side (from the bottom of the garden to his house is my responsibility, I don't know if this matters). The passage is the only access from my back garden to my front garden and is used regularly, especially by the kids!! I know that the condensate from condensing boilers is acidic and that the flue can produce nuisance plumes of vapour and I guess it is not good to have these discharging directly onto my property. I am also concerned about the odours from the cooker hood flue. I'm not a controversial neighbour and probably wouldn't have minded him doing these jobs if only he'd discussed it with me first. Does anyone know what the regulations are concerning these issues as I would like to know where I stand before I confront him. I'd forget regulations. If the items protrude onto your land then they constitute a trespass and that's all you need to concern yourself with. By all means try and discuss it in a civil manner first but if the items aren't removed then court action will be needed. Provided you are certain that the house wall is the boundary (this may well need to be tested in court) then you have a sure fire win and the neighbour should realise that. Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) Next time someone insults you remember it takes 12 muscles to smile politely and try to pass it off but only 4 to reach out your arm and slap the ****. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:13:51 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote: In article , Andy Hall wrote: (he's a BMW driver if that makes any difference!), There's your problem right there then :-) And I thought you appreciated fine tools, Andy. Yeah I do, and of course present company excepted from the stereotype about boy racers in their 316s. :-) ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"If the items protrude onto your land then they
constitute a trespass and that's all you need to concern yourself with." I've been following this thread. I'm with Mr.Baker; it's your land and the neighbour should have sought your permission before installing anything on or over it. However, bear in mind that he might have been misled by the installer (who should have known your permission was required). Alternatively, if he is a devious type, he may have timed the installation to co-incide with your absence. Did he know you'd be away? The 15mm pipe could be a condense drain from a condensing boiler, but should then have been in plastic. I think it is more likely to be the discharge from a safety valve. If so then it shouldn't discharge anything in normal use, but if it operated it could discharge very hot water. It would have to be terminated in a visible and safe place. A termination over a passage is a safety hazard, if it is what I think. I think I'd write a brief note stating that your permission should have been obtained before these pipes were installed, that you have not given your permission and that you would expect all further work on the installation to be stopped until you have received written details of the works for consideration. When you know what it all is, only then could you consider giving permission. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
I think I'd write a brief note stating that your permission should have been obtained before these pipes were installed, that you have not given your permission and that you would expect all further work on the installation to be stopped until you have received written details of the works for consideration. When you know what it all is, only then could you consider giving permission. Suggestions: 1) Keep note brief and to the point. i.e making no other points that could weaken your argument. 2) Try to obtain some form of agreement (or a nominal payment?). That will then place on record that it IS an intrusion onto your property. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Kev Parkin wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property If this is the case, I belive you'd be completely within your rights to simply cut them off, and cap the ends. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Subject: Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
From: Ian Stirling Date: 06/06/04 09:30 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: Kev Parkin wrote: Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property If this is the case, I belive you'd be completely within your rights to simply cut them off, and cap the ends. No you wouldn't. That would be criminal damage. Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) Next time someone insults you remember it takes 12 muscles to smile politely and try to pass it off but only 4 to reach out your arm and slap the ****. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On 06 Jun 2004 09:24:01 GMT, a (Dave Baker) wrote:
Subject: Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs From: Ian Stirling Date: 06/06/04 09:30 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: Kev Parkin wrote: Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property If this is the case, I belive you'd be completely within your rights to simply cut them off, and cap the ends. No you wouldn't. That would be criminal damage. Not to mention the implications of blocking a flue or safety device ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#33
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: If this is the case, I belive you'd be completely within your rights to simply cut them off, and cap the ends. No you wouldn't. That would be criminal damage. Not to mention the implications of blocking a flue or safety device Getting into a dispute with a neighbour should really be avoided at near all costs these days, because these things now have to be stated on selling a house, and not much puts off a prospective buyer more. No matter what the rights and wrongs, an amicable outcome is the pragmatic way. -- *Dance like nobody's watching. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:24:07 +0100, John Stumbles wrote:
"Kev Parkin" wrote in message om... Thanks for all the advice, to try and answer some of the questions in the above posts: a) There is no shared access b) The neighbours wall forms the boundary to my property c) The flues/pipes etc protrude directly from the wall, hence are on my property d) There is no garden between the wall and my path e) The passageway is the only access from the back to the front of the house for pushchairs, bikes etc, so is used daily f) I don't know what type of boiler it is - if it's a combi this would make it worse. g) There is no fence the wall is the boundary Once again thanks for the input, I think I'll have a word with him and then take things further if that doesn't have any success. Kev BS5440-1(2000) says: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" When locating a fanned flued room sealed appliance, the position of the terminal should be such as to minimize the risk of re-entry of combustion products through openable windows, vents etc. of opposite or adjacent properties. A plume of products of combustion may be readily observed, especially in cold weather or if a condensing appliance is involved. It is recommended that a fanned flue terminal should be positioned as follows: a) at least 2 m from an opening in a building directly opposite; and b) so that the products of combustion are not directed to discharge across a boundary. In the absence of any specific instruction from the manufacturer, a suitable guard should be provided whenever a terminal is fitted less than 2 m above ground, above a balcony or above a flat roof to which people have access. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" Approved Document J (2002) says: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" Flues discharging at low level near boundaries 1.51 Flues discharging at low level near boundaries should do so at positions where the building owner will always be able to ensure safe flue gas dispersal. A way of achieving this where owners of adjacent land could build up to the boundary would be to adopt the suggestions in Diagrams 3.4 or 4.2, as relevant. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""" (Diagram 3.4 shows the terminal kept 600mm or more from the boundary line for a gas fired fanned balanced flue; 4.2 refers to oil-fired appliances.) From a gas safety perspective you (or a subsequent owner) might build an extension on your property up to the boundary which would then make the termination of his boiler unsafe. I'm not sure whether his installation would be classed as Not to Current Standards (NCS) or At Risk (AR) but as a new installation it certainly should not have been done in this way. The local CORGI inspector might have something to say about it. If the discharge pipe does not terminate safely - and in this case that likely would mean taking it to nearing ground level - then there is cause for concern. CORGI would be very interested to hear about this. However I'm not sure what right you have to complain to CORGI in this matter, maybe worth a try. A flue terminal that extends out of a plain wall 300mm does not sound right and I don't know of any manufacturers with such a requirement except for the 50mm (nom) plastic pipe flues which _may_ be taken that far (but don't need to be). -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Terry" wrote in message om...
I think I'd write a brief note stating that your permission should have been obtained before these pipes were installed, that you have not given your permission and that you would expect all further work on the installation to be stopped until you have received written details of the works for consideration. When you know what it all is, only then could you consider giving permission. Suggestions: 1) Keep note brief and to the point. i.e making no other points that could weaken your argument. 2) Try to obtain some form of agreement (or a nominal payment?). That will then place on record that it IS an intrusion onto your property. Hi all, thanks for the feedback, I thought I'd update you on the above situation....... Well, Saturday came and with it came white van man! Hey presto, all pipes and flue removed from boundary wall and re-sited on adjacent wall. Holes still need making good on external wall - I still haven't seen or heard from my neighbour though, but it looks like my friendly note did the trick. Kev |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Subject: Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
From: (Kev Parkin) Date: 21/06/04 23:46 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: "Terry" wrote in message . com... I think I'd write a brief note stating that your permission should have been obtained before these pipes were installed, that you have not given your permission and that you would expect all further work on the installation to be stopped until you have received written details of the works for consideration. When you know what it all is, only then could you consider giving permission. Suggestions: 1) Keep note brief and to the point. i.e making no other points that could weaken your argument. 2) Try to obtain some form of agreement (or a nominal payment?). That will then place on record that it IS an intrusion onto your property. Hi all, thanks for the feedback, I thought I'd update you on the above situation....... Well, Saturday came and with it came white van man! Hey presto, all pipes and flue removed from boundary wall and re-sited on adjacent wall. Holes still need making good on external wall - I still haven't seen or heard from my neighbour though, but it looks like my friendly note did the trick. Kev Result  Well done that man. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) Next time someone insults you remember it takes 12 muscles to smile politely and try to pass it off but only 4 to reach out your arm and slap the ****. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
In article ,
Kev Parkin wrote: Hey presto, all pipes and flue removed from boundary wall and re-sited on adjacent wall. Holes still need making good on external wall - I still haven't seen or heard from my neighbour though, but it looks like my friendly note did the trick. Result. Much better than getting into a dispute. Could be it never even occurred to him that his builders shouldn't have done this without permission. -- *The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article , Kev Parkin wrote: Hey presto, all pipes and flue removed from boundary wall and re-sited on adjacent wall. Holes still need making good on external wall - I still haven't seen or heard from my neighbour though, but it looks like my friendly note did the trick. Result. Much better than getting into a dispute. Could be it never even occurred to him that his builders shouldn't have done this without permission. You're probably right, anyhow alls well that ends well Kev |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
Excellent. Thank you for the feedback.
Maybe another friendly note of thanks is in order. The neighbour can't have been best pleased but he has sorted it out. |
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Flues cross my boundary - whar are the regs
"Aidan" wrote in message
om... Excellent. Thank you for the feedback. Maybe another friendly note of thanks is in order. The neighbour can't have been best pleased but he has sorted it out. Glad you got it sorted. My parents suffer a similar problem with their neighbours condensing boiler venting near their back door. All flues and pipes are within the neighbours property but in the winter it splutters water and steam that causes everything by the back door to be covered in a layer of ice. Not nice. They have had a word, but the neighbour is an grade one a*se, who says its not his problem. |
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