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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Dangerous product alert: Screwfix junction boxes
I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In
fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?! Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them! Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:- http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctsfx.jpg Comparing the Screwfix version to the Wickes version (both 30A) there's a considerable difference between the two (Wickes on the right). http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctcomp.jpg Andy |
#2
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:13:48 -0000, "Pecanfan"
wrote: I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?! Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them! Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:- http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctsfx.jpg Comparing the Screwfix version to the Wickes version (both 30A) there's a considerable difference between the two (Wickes on the right). http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctcomp.jpg Andy You might consider telling your local Trading Standards office. They might fire off a letter to Screwfix, and that would have to be given attention. Two other alternatives would be not to buy this grade of product and get decent MK ones, or perhaps better still to use crimps. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#3
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Two other alternatives would be not to buy this grade of product and
get decent MK ones, or perhaps better still to use crimps. Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick? Andy |
#4
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"Pecanfan" wrote in news:1108401451.646741@smtp-
1.griffin.com: Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick? Andy Can I second that? mike |
#5
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mike ring wrote:
"Pecanfan" wrote in news:1108401451.646741@smtp- 1.griffin.com: Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick? Andy Can I second that? mike My kitchen fitter suggested that I use crimps in place of a socket that will be hidden by the new units, rather than any sort of junction box. With a fair amount of scepticism I visited what I hope were a serious electrical suppliers and asked 'vaguely' about crimps for joining cables. Quick as a flash they produced red plastic inline cable crimps of a sort that I am more accustomed to using on my car. They explained that with the proper crimping tool, i.e. a ratchet-type rather than the feeble plier-type, you can achieve a satisfactory joint that does not need to be accessible in the way that screw connections do. Of course you wrap it in tape to increase the rigidity of the joint. Richard -- Real email address is RJSavage at BIGFOOT dot COM The information contained in this post may not be published in, or used by http://www.diyprojects.info |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:09:22 +0000, Richard strung
together this: Of course you wrap it in tape to increase the rigidity of the joint. Er, think you should have some sort of exlamation mark or other feature after that to show it is actually a humurous comment. It is a humurous comment, isn't it? -- SJW Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject |
#7
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Richard wrote:
mike ring wrote: "Pecanfan" wrote in news:1108401451.646741@smtp- 1.griffin.com: Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick? Andy Can I second that? mike My kitchen fitter suggested that I use crimps in place of a socket that will be hidden by the new units, rather than any sort of junction box. With a fair amount of scepticism I visited what I hope were a serious electrical suppliers and asked 'vaguely' about crimps for joining cables. Quick as a flash they produced red plastic inline cable crimps of a sort that I am more accustomed to using on my car. They explained that with the proper crimping tool, i.e. a ratchet-type rather than the feeble plier-type, you can achieve a satisfactory joint that does not need to be accessible in the way that screw connections do. Of course you wrap it in tape to increase the rigidity of the joint. How do you join three (or more) wires together using crimps? -- Chris Green |
#8
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"Pecanfan" wrote in message ... Two other alternatives would be not to buy this grade of product and get decent MK ones, or perhaps better still to use crimps. Are crimps really better than junction boxes? Yes; for in-line jointing of conductors What sort of crimps? They come in three(?) colours identifying the gauge of conductor that can be joined .... basically the conducotrs are bared - inserted into the crimp until the insulation buts into the crimp and then you use an apropriate ratchet type crimper to compress the crimp onto the conductor. A rachet-(calibrated) crimper is essential. The crimps should be protected with heatshrink sleeves. Am I missing a trick? If you're not using crimps ... yes ... its much easier than fiddling with the brass itsy-bitsy screw clamps -often fighting against gravity. Screwfix shows them on their web-pages. -- Brian |
#9
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0000, "Pecanfan"
wrote: Two other alternatives would be not to buy this grade of product and get decent MK ones, or perhaps better still to use crimps. Are crimps really better than junction boxes? What sort of crimps? Am I missing a trick? Andy Well...... if you have a situation where you need to make joints in a place that won't be accessible again, then crimps are an approved joint and anything with screw terminals is not. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#10
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Andy Hall wrote: Well...... if you have a situation where you need to make joints in a place that won't be accessible again, then crimps are an approved joint and anything with screw terminals is not. I agree with the concept, but IME crimping solid wire with Screwfix red/blue/yellow receptacles and a ratchet tool produces a crap joint. IMO to get a decent crimp with solid wire, you need a hex or AMP type crimp and much thicker walled receptacles. The cheap terminals are just about OK with stranded wire, but again do not achieve the wire grip performance achievable with an industrial crimping system. Regards Capitol |
#11
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:24:47 +0000, Capitol
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Well...... if you have a situation where you need to make joints in a place that won't be accessible again, then crimps are an approved joint and anything with screw terminals is not. I agree with the concept, but IME crimping solid wire with Screwfix red/blue/yellow receptacles and a ratchet tool produces a crap joint. IMO to get a decent crimp with solid wire, you need a hex or AMP type crimp and much thicker walled receptacles. The cheap terminals are just about OK with stranded wire, but again do not achieve the wire grip performance achievable with an industrial crimping system. Regards Capitol I didn't say anything about using Screwfix or any other cheap crimps. Electrical wiring accessories are the *last* place to consider anything less than top quality materials. It is a false economy to use cheap electrical stuff for both reliability and safety reasons. Obviously one should use best quality branded crimps to the right specification and a properly specified ratchet tool to attach them. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#12
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"Pecanfan" wrote in message
... [snip] http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctsfx.jpg Comparing the Screwfix version to the Wickes version (both 30A) there's a considerable difference between the two (Wickes on the right). http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctcomp.jpg The one in the first photo looks distinctly nasty, but unfortunately, the second photo is too small to make out the differences in quality. Rick |
#13
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Pecanfan wrote:
I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?! Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them! Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:- http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctsfx.jpg Comparing the Screwfix version to the Wickes version (both 30A) there's a considerable difference between the two (Wickes on the right). http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/junctcomp.jpg Andy Are these their cheapo 'Select' branded ones? I used a load of the 20A ones when rewiring a lighting circuit not long ago - can't say I had any problems. I certainly didn't feel I couldn't tighten the screws as much as wanted to. David |
#14
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"Pecanfan" wrote in message ... I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?! Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them! Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:- Totally agree. I complained to Screfix some time after I had them and this came to light but they didn't want to know. Threw about 5 away. Also don't touch "I can't believe it's not nails" at the moment - the mastic cans leak all the gloop out of the back onto the gun. They really have gone downhill recently. |
#15
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Totally agree. I complained to Screfix some time after I had them and
this came to light but they didn't want to know. Threw about 5 away. Also don't touch "I can't believe it's not nails" at the moment - the mastic cans leak all the gloop out of the back onto the gun. They really have gone downhill recently. Of the last 5 orders I've placed, every one has resulted in a return or replacement of some description. They just don't care any more. Apparently everything gets packed by machine now too, which explains why my last order had no less than 7 damaged items. It's OK (if annoying) for the likes of me, mainly using them for DIY stuff, I don't see how anyone in the trade could possibly rely on them now though. Shame... Andy |
#16
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And talking of dangerous products - bought a selection of Wickes dual switched mains sockets. All same shelf, all same part number, all look similar. Only on closer inspection they aren't. Most are wired L - N - E but one has a slightly different moulding and is wired N - L - E !!!!! |
#17
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Mike wrote:
"Pecanfan" wrote in message ... I've tried telling Screwfix about this, but they don't seem interested. In fact the general 'shoddy goods' level from Screwfix seems particularly high at the moment - not sure if it's just me?! Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) and how these meet any relevant BS is beyond me. I've also tried replacements, on the off chance it was a dodgy batch, but same problem - clearly a fundamental design fault. I know you get what you pay for, but these are plain dangerous - don't buy them! Basically the grub screws cannot be properly tightened since the surrounding brass socket gives way under any reasonable pressure. As can be seen by the picture below, this causes the screws to jump out their threads, creating a hot joint. Sometimes the thread will give way AFTER installation - so even if it seems fine initially, it can fail later down the line:- Totally agree. I complained to Screfix some time after I had them and this came to light but they didn't want to know. Threw about 5 away. Also don't touch "I can't believe it's not nails" at the moment - the mastic cans leak all the gloop out of the back onto the gun. They really have gone downhill recently. Unbelievable... Only last weekend did I suffer both problems; namely the failing screws on the junction boxes and the reward-projecting glue gun. In both cases I put it down to my gym attendance finally paying off but now I'm not so sure...! Mathew |
#18
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"Mathew J. Newton" wrote in message ups.com... Anyway - 'Standard Junction Boxes' - I've tried the 20A and 30A jobs (13013 and 12802) snip Totally agree. I complained to Screfix some time after I had them and this came to light but they didn't want to know. Threw about 5 away. Also don't touch "I can't believe it's not nails" at the moment - the mastic cans leak all the gloop out of the back onto the gun. They really have gone downhill recently. Unbelievable... Only last weekend did I suffer both problems; namely the failing screws on the junction boxes and the reward-projecting glue gun. In both cases I put it down to my gym attendance finally paying off but now I'm not so sure...! They phoned me and claimed to have fixed the glue problem and would refund unused tubes. Didn't offer to refund the used tubes or the messed up gun though. Anybodu know when Toolstation are going to stock everything Screwitup do so that I can stop using them once and for all ? |
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