Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance is
only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and tipping
directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one normal-sized
barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people and barrows I
need to borrow!

Colin

Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance
is only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and
tipping directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one
normal-sized barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people
and barrows I need to borrow!


took 2 of us 4 hours to mix and lay 1.3cubic metres (nearly 3 tons),
mixer was at the bottom of the garden about 15m from the entrance to the
room but it was all up hill, worked out at approximately 50 barrow loads

LJ

"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message
...
Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a cubic
metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance is only
about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and tipping
directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one normal-sized
barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people and barrows I
need to borrow!

Colin

One person - 3 hours!
Based on the figures by 'in2minds'
2 people (but one spent some time mixing) so, say, 1½ people divided by 1.3
cubic metres to get 1 cu.metre. and divide by 3 then mutiply by 2 to get the
10 metre distance - works out at 0.7692306 people. Enlisting this quantity
of assistance is not practical, therefore multiply by 4 and you get the time
it takes for one whole person to shift that amount - 3 hours.
Please by all means double check my figures as I don't want to be resposible
for a solid block of immoveable concrete - although I could probably lend
you a Kango if the worst came to the worst.
:-)
Hugh

Colin Blackburn wrote:
Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance
is only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and
tipping directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one
normal-sized barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people
and barrows I need to borrow!

Colin

I always did badly at school with this sort of equation, given the ready
access to calculators and the invention of the JCB I really didn't see the
point of archaic 'how many navvies do I need to' type numeric conundrii.

the real questions is, collin, what's your mass and do you know how to use
a sledge hammer, effectively, to disperse a _few_inches of concrete ?



RT

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:34:47 +0000, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance is
only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and tipping
directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one normal-sized
barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people and barrows I
need to borrow!

Colin

Two people, both relatively fit, used to a hard days work. If you go
for too many you get in each others way.

As time goes on, it becomes harder, and his harder to shift, I guess
you want it moved in an hour or so.

Two people give you some body to work with, keeps you going a bit.

Also you are having this delivered from a waggon, so have the driver
empty into barrows for as long as you can talk him into staying
arround, cups of tea & bacon butties will help out here.

Don't overload the barrows, you will struggle, best keep it inside
sensible limits.

All this is based on my experience of similar activites ...

Tell SHMBO to have the cold beer on standby for when you are
finished..... Its an incentive !!!

Rick

Colin Blackburn wrote:

Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance is
only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and tipping
directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one normal-sized
barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people and barrows I
need to borrow!

Colin

I work on 6 barrow loads per ton usually. Cubic meter is about 3 tons.

A good navvy could barrow 30 tons in a day, although he needed a load of
guinness afterwards.

It's probably a hard days work for a single person, not used to it.

Two of you? should take a hard couple of hours.

An afternoon: I shifted a 1 ton dumpy bag on my own ( shovelful by shovelful
into a barrow of course! )
in one afternoon.

Andy.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I work on 6 barrow loads per ton usually.

Assuming you mean a ton, and not a tonne, then each barrowload would weigh
373lbs! Granted there's a fulcrum point (the wheel), but I doubt you could
lift or push it!

If you mean a tonne, then its 166kg/barrowload. Still doubtful.

--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address

The message
from Colin Blackburn contains these words:

Can anyone suggest an estimate for how long it would take to move a
cubic metre of concrete by shovel and barrow? The barrowing distance is
only about 10 metres, shovelling into the barrow at one end and tipping
directly into the hole at the other. Assume one person, one normal-sized
barrow, one shovel---then I can work out how many people and barrows I
need to borrow!

Barrowing the concrete and tipping it is the easy bit with somewhere
between 1 and 1.5 cu feet to each barrow load. What will make all the
difference is whether the barrow is being filled by a contractor (who
might not want to wait very long to dump his load), shovelled off the
ground or mixed locally in a small mixer.

Estimating the time for shovelling wet concrete is very much like
estimating the length of a ball of string. It would vary by at least a
factor of 3 depending on how wet it is. I have no direct experience of
it but I reckon I can mix and lay about 6 cubic feet of concrete an hour
and that includes tamping down and levelling off. Just shovelling it up
and barrowing it around I would expect to be able to shift between 2 and
4 times that amount. There are about 35 cu feet in a metre cubed so my
estimate would be between 90 minutes and 3 hours.

--
Roger

Paul King wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I work on 6 barrow loads per ton usually.


Assuming you mean a ton, and not a tonne, then each barrowload would weigh
373lbs! Granted there's a fulcrum point (the wheel), but I doubt you could
lift or push it!

If you mean a tonne, then its 166kg/barrowload. Still doubtful.

Yes. I thought about that a bit.

I use 5 bags of cement per ton of sand, and each half bag of cement is a
barrow load.So its nearer ten barrow per ton. Although each barrow load
has got a lot of water in it.

So I am doing about 224lb per barrow - maybe a tad more.

I can certainly push 2 tons of car. 300lb is probably the limit to
control a wheelbarrow.

Its certainly possible to lift a cwt bag - 50kg or so - by hand. That is
1/20 of a tonne.

I would certainly say wheeling a pair is not hard, and three is on.

So somewhere between 6 and 10 barrows per ton.

Okay, everything was in place for getting concrete into this hole this
Saturday morning. Then I read of the weather warnings for next week,
freezing temperatures, lots of snow. The forecast at the moment is for
cold temperatures and snow from Saturday through to Monday with the cold
weather continuing into the week. Our house is right in the main area
for the first blast of cold weather and we are on an exposed moorland.

So, given that I have read that concrete should be kept above 10C and
given that this is impossible to guarantee at this time of year should I
shelve the plans?

What would be the consequences of pouring the concrete in cold weather
or more significantly of the first few days of its curing being in
potentially sub-zero temperatures.

Colin

Don't suppose most of the 'hole' will be that cold - how deep/sheltered
is it? Can always insulate it beneath straw & plastic sheeting.

Phil wrote:
Don't suppose most of the 'hole' will be that cold - how deep/sheltered
is it? Can always insulate it beneath straw & plastic sheeting.

The hole is about a cubic metre. It's below a wall so there is some
shelter. It would be difficult to heat---other then by lighting a fire
on it!---but I could certainly insulate the top and cover it in
polythene. Would that be sufficient

Should be. -5 is forecast , of course that's air temperature, so
insulate well (also stops it drying out too fast).

In article , Colin Blackburn
wrote:
The hole is about a cubic metre. It's below a wall so there is
some shelter. It would be difficult to heat---other then by
lighting a fire on it!---but I could certainly insulate the top
and cover it in polythene. Would that be sufficient

I can't imagine problems in this situation. Concrete generates
warmth as it sets (on the Hoover Dam they had to cast cooling pipes
into the concrete) so if the ground isn't frozen and you cover it
well all should be OK

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Colin Blackburn wrote:


Okay, everything was in place for getting concrete into this hole this
Saturday morning. Then I read of the weather warnings for next week,
freezing temperatures, lots of snow. The forecast at the moment is for
cold temperatures and snow from Saturday through to Monday with the cold
weather continuing into the week. Our house is right in the main area
for the first blast of cold weather and we are on an exposed moorland.

So, given that I have read that concrete should be kept above 10C and
given that this is impossible to guarantee at this time of year should I
shelve the plans?

Nope. Just use winter additive.


What would be the consequences of pouring the concrete in cold weather
or more significantly of the first few days of its curing being in
potentially sub-zero temperatures.


You must protrect it from freezing by using e.g. feb 'wintamix'

It will take an age to set - probably 3-4 days before its even sensibly
set, and several weeks for full strength.

BUT its probably going to be better going off at 5C and 95% humidity
than 35C and 5% humidity.

Colin

In article , Colin Blackburn
writes

Okay, everything was in place for getting concrete into this hole this
Saturday morning. Then I read of the weather warnings for next week,
freezing temperatures, lots of snow. The forecast at the moment is for
cold temperatures and snow from Saturday through to Monday with the cold
weather continuing into the week. Our house is right in the main area
for the first blast of cold weather and we are on an exposed moorland.

So, given that I have read that concrete should be kept above 10C and
given that this is impossible to guarantee at this time of year should I
shelve the plans?

What would be the consequences of pouring the concrete in cold weather
or more significantly of the first few days of its curing being in
potentially sub-zero temperatures.

Colin

Add an antifreeze admixture and cover with a frost mat, all available at
the builders merchants, the frost mat is a layer of insulation so if you
have anything handy laying around that will do, if the concrete is ready
mixed ask the supplier to put something in the mix.
--
David

The ground is warmer than the air this time of year, so dont insulate
setting concrete from the ground

NT

In article .com,
writes
The ground is warmer than the air this time of year, so dont insulate
setting concrete from the ground

NT

Have you ever heard of concrete being insulated from the ground?? at
least not in this country, even in the north of Norway I have only ever
tented over and kept warm from above but at our temps a frost mat will
suffice
--
David

.. wrote:
In article .com,
writes
The ground is warmer than the air this time of year, so dont
insulate
setting concrete from the ground

NT

Have you ever heard of concrete being insulated from the ground?? at
least not in this country, even in the north of Norway I have only
ever
tented over and kept warm from above but at our temps a frost mat
will
suffice
--
David

Yes, its done all the time he each and every nwe build house
concrete floor is insulated from the gruond.

I know its a bit unlikely in the OP's case, but it was getting
recommended.


NT

In article .com,
writes
. wrote:
In article .com,
writes
The ground is warmer than the air this time of year, so dont
insulate
setting concrete from the ground

NT

Have you ever heard of concrete being insulated from the ground?? at
least not in this country, even in the north of Norway I have only
ever
tented over and kept warm from above but at our temps a frost mat
will
suffice
--
David

Yes, its done all the time he each and every nwe build house
concrete floor is insulated from the gruond.

I know its a bit unlikely in the OP's case, but it was getting
recommended.

You're at crossed purposes though, insulating a house slab is a bit
different to trying to keep lump of concrete from freezing and house
slabs are not necessarily insulated from the ground, they are insulated
to keep heat in which may be ground supported or suspended.

AFAICS nobody is recommending insulating from the ground, the comment
about insulating beneath polythene and straw I took as being on top of
the concrete
--
David

In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Colin Blackburn wrote:


Okay, everything was in place for getting concrete into this hole this
Saturday morning. Then I read of the weather warnings for next week,
freezing temperatures, lots of snow. The forecast at the moment is for
cold temperatures and snow from Saturday through to Monday with the cold
weather continuing into the week. Our house is right in the main area
for the first blast of cold weather and we are on an exposed moorland.

So, given that I have read that concrete should be kept above 10C and
given that this is impossible to guarantee at this time of year should I
shelve the plans?

Nope. Just use winter additive.


What would be the consequences of pouring the concrete in cold weather
or more significantly of the first few days of its curing being in
potentially sub-zero temperatures.


You must protrect it from freezing by using e.g. feb 'wintamix'

It will take an age to set - probably 3-4 days before its even sensibly
set, and several weeks for full strength.

BUT its probably going to be better going off at 5C and 95% humidity
than 35C and 5% humidity.

winter slabs are generally better cured than summer slabs up to the
point that they are frost damaged so protect the surface and they are
fine
--
David