We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) = 3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

I doubt you will get Environment Agency consent and building regulations
approval to do it. A fully installed subterranean system cost me £7,000 last
years including removal of the old system

Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
I doubt you will get Environment Agency consent and building regulations
approval to do it. A fully installed subterranean system cost me £7,000
last
years including removal of the old system

Peter Crosland



This is what I reckon as well. I can see the EA saying no initially but in
theory what I propose is improving what is there and they are already happy
with. Instead of the Klargester going into land drains its going through a
whole other system which is designed to deal with raw sewerage. So all in
all its going to be better and safer than any single system. Bit
unconventional admittadly but if they are happy with both systems
individually then I shoud be able to convince them (I hope).

£5-£10K is what I expect it will cost all in. I've been quoted £750 inc VAT
for a 1000 gal. Klargester so with pipework, dig, install etc should be
reasonable.

I doubt you will get Environment Agency consent and building regulations
approval to do it. A fully installed subterranean system cost me £7,000
last
years including removal of the old system

This is what I reckon as well. I can see the EA saying no initially but in
theory what I propose is improving what is there and they are already
happy
with. Instead of the Klargester going into land drains its going through a
whole other system which is designed to deal with raw sewerage. So all in
all its going to be better and safer than any single system. Bit
unconventional admittadly but if they are happy with both systems
individually then I shoud be able to convince them (I hope).

£5-£10K is what I expect it will cost all in. I've been quoted £750 inc
VAT
for a 1000 gal. Klargester so with pipework, dig, install etc should be
reasonable.

I should make it clear I was talking about a domestic plant serving a three
bedroon bungalow. You should also remember that The EA will now only issue
septic tank consents valid for ten years from the date of issue. This means
after ten years they could force you to replace it with something less
polluting. For that reason alone doing the job with a proper plant would be
more sense long term. A properly functioning septic tank is recomended to be
emptied every two years.

Peter Crosland

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:39:03 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

You should also remember that The EA will now only issue
septic tank consents valid for ten years from the date of issue. This means
after ten years they could force you to replace it with something less
polluting.

I think it's twelve years, at least it was for me,(unless the official
in question made a mistake, of course :-) )

Cheers,

John

Thanks for that John. I could well be wrong. The point is still valid in
that it is for a relatively short time. My guess is that all septic tanks
will have to be replaced with less polluting systems within the next fifteen
years

Peter Crosland

"TonyK" wrote in message
...
We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn
thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory
never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) =
3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

I have a Klargester and the over flow water is fed to a soakaway adjacent to
it. Built my house 10 years ago and it has never been emptied as the
bacteria is active and deals with all waste provided your wife does not
empty strong chemical cleaners down the drain.
Secondly my old house which had a brick chamber with a divider is at least
50 years old and again has never been emptied to my knowledge for 30 years.
You could replace the original drains leading to the original tank at a
fraction of the cost you are talking about
What is wrong with the tank? A bit of cement repair work could transform
it.
Just a thought!!
Blair

"Blair Malcolm" wrote in message
...

"TonyK" wrote in message
...
We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the
original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn
thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l
Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and
the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory
never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) =
3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so
I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do
this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

I have a Klargester and the over flow water is fed to a soakaway adjacent
to
it. Built my house 10 years ago and it has never been emptied as the
bacteria is active and deals with all waste provided your wife does not
empty strong chemical cleaners down the drain.
Secondly my old house which had a brick chamber with a divider is at least
50 years old and again has never been emptied to my knowledge for 30
years.
You could replace the original drains leading to the original tank at a
fraction of the cost you are talking about
What is wrong with the tank? A bit of cement repair work could transform
it.
Just a thought!!
Blair



Yep but were talking about treating 1.5 million litres of water a year from
the mains alone.

TonyK typed:

We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground,
snip
Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

A septic tank is a *Tank* how is it not going to need emptying ?. if you
install a Klargester you just need to provide a soakaway that the EA
approve, Sometimes easier said then done ;-(

Mark typed:

TonyK typed:

We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground,
snip
Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

A septic tank is a *Tank* how is it not going to need emptying ?.

I cant believe I wrote that.
It's a Sunday im off for a lie down. ;-(


if
you install a Klargester you just need to provide a soakaway that the
EA approve, Sometimes easier said then done ;-(

at least that bit made sence

--
Mark

TonyK wrote:

We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) = 3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Odd, since my biodisc installed was 4.5k, and a quote to do it
professionally by some company was about 5.5k.


Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Get a Klargester biodisc and install it, and use that, and only that.

Its more than good enough on its own.



Ta

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:08:01 -0000, "TonyK"
wrote:

We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) = 3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta


Sir

You can get packaged sewage treatment units for less than 5K,
including installation, if you do some of the work yourself.

First you get a consent to discharge from the Environment Agency, you
can them empty onto the land / river with one of these things.

I got my unit from Angilan Polution Control. I got a digger in for 15
quid an hour including driver, and did all the plumbing bits myself.

Building regs check it out, so you have quality control as well.

You need an anual pump out, I pay 50 quid a go for mine, and the guy
comes with a big go anywhere tractor. I pump out when the weather is
dry in the summer.

Rick

"TonyK" wrote in message
...
We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn
thing
emptied due to its location.

Heres the plan... re-divert existing main drain 30m to a 4500l Klargester
style onion from which the grey water runs through another drain to the
original tank (once emptied).

The theory is I'll have a a proper Klargester doing the seperation and the
original tank then "filters" the grey water even further and in theory
never
needs emptying again (hope/pray).

Sort of a double tank system with the Klargester emptied quarterly.

BTW , based on the FAQs 180L per day I need (180x70x300)+(180x8x300) =
3.9m
L... since our water is metered I know we only used 1.5m L last year so I
gues this is more accurate? Rain water runs off through land drains.

A BioDisc is out of the question. Have been quoted £40-50K. I can do this
system for under £10K including the emptying!

Any thoughts, observations, obvious flaws?

Ta

You have the best now, the modern equivalent is the Albion which consists of
two parallel concrete rings which goes to soakaway.

1. What I would do I would re-do the spreader, empty the tank, and it will
be as good as new. The reason the spreader has failed is because the tank
has not been emptied regularly. Empting depends how thick is the crust in
the primary tank 18" is max.

2. The alternative is a reed bed system. SepticTank to reed bed tank 1, to
next reed bed, then to discharge to pond with fish or ditch or river. The
Environ Agency (EA) love reed beds.

In my system I have permit to discharge to ditch or river, my system is for
10 people. I have Albion going into 2 small reed bed tanks then to pond
overflow to open ditch. I scoop out the crust every 2 years as I need the
grey water to feed the reeds. The fish in the pond love it, the water was
checked, for the first year by EA, and they don't come any more. I built it
all 7 years ago and its perfect. Permit is for life of system.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 06:23:08 -0000, "Ratty"
wrote:


You have the best now, the modern equivalent is the Albion which consists of
two parallel concrete rings which goes to soakaway.

1. What I would do I would re-do the spreader, empty the tank, and it will
be as good as new. The reason the spreader has failed is because the tank
has not been emptied regularly. Empting depends how thick is the crust in
the primary tank 18" is max.

2. The alternative is a reed bed system. SepticTank to reed bed tank 1, to
next reed bed, then to discharge to pond with fish or ditch or river. The
Environ Agency (EA) love reed beds.

In my system I have permit to discharge to ditch or river, my system is for
10 people. I have Albion going into 2 small reed bed tanks then to pond
overflow to open ditch. I scoop out the crust every 2 years as I need the
grey water to feed the reeds. The fish in the pond love it, the water was
checked, for the first year by EA, and they don't come any more. I built it
all 7 years ago and its perfect. Permit is for life of system.


One thing to bear in mind though is that the rules changed about three
or four years ago and the EA are now substantially tougher about
things so what was fine seven years ago may not be acceptable today
:-(

Cheers,

John

"John Anderton" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 06:23:08 -0000, "Ratty"
wrote:


You have the best now, the modern equivalent is the Albion which consists
of
two parallel concrete rings which goes to soakaway.

1. What I would do I would re-do the spreader, empty the tank, and it
will
be as good as new. The reason the spreader has failed is because the tank
has not been emptied regularly. Empting depends how thick is the crust in
the primary tank 18" is max.

2. The alternative is a reed bed system. SepticTank to reed bed tank 1,
to
next reed bed, then to discharge to pond with fish or ditch or river.
The
Environ Agency (EA) love reed beds.

In my system I have permit to discharge to ditch or river, my system is
for
10 people. I have Albion going into 2 small reed bed tanks then to pond
overflow to open ditch. I scoop out the crust every 2 years as I need the
grey water to feed the reeds. The fish in the pond love it, the water was
checked, for the first year by EA, and they don't come any more. I built
it
all 7 years ago and its perfect. Permit is for life of system.


One thing to bear in mind though is that the rules changed about three
or four years ago and the EA are now substantially tougher about
things so what was fine seven years ago may not be acceptable today
:-(


That explains it. We looked at putting a reed bed in and got a
straightforward "NO!"

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John Anderton" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 06:23:08 -0000, "Ratty"
wrote:


You have the best now, the modern equivalent is the Albion which
consists
of
two parallel concrete rings which goes to soakaway.

1. What I would do I would re-do the spreader, empty the tank, and it
will
be as good as new. The reason the spreader has failed is because the
tank
has not been emptied regularly. Empting depends how thick is the crust
in
the primary tank 18" is max.

2. The alternative is a reed bed system. SepticTank to reed bed tank 1,
to
next reed bed, then to discharge to pond with fish or ditch or river.
The
Environ Agency (EA) love reed beds.

In my system I have permit to discharge to ditch or river, my system is
for
10 people. I have Albion going into 2 small reed bed tanks then to pond
overflow to open ditch. I scoop out the crust every 2 years as I need
the
grey water to feed the reeds. The fish in the pond love it, the water
was
checked, for the first year by EA, and they don't come any more. I built
it
all 7 years ago and its perfect. Permit is for life of system.


One thing to bear in mind though is that the rules changed about three
or four years ago and the EA are now substantially tougher about
things so what was fine seven years ago may not be acceptable today
:-(


That explains it. We looked at putting a reed bed in and got a
straightforward "NO!"

Was that from the EA, or building regulations.

I got permission from the EA first, they visited my site we discussed what I
proposed to install, they gave approval. I them went to put plans into
planning and I was told that they did not like reed beds.
I paid my money and asked them for a refusal as I have EA permission and I
would go to appeal.
The planning officer said he did not like my method of dealing as the way I
did this he could not make a decision. I would now start again with the EA
and not planning.

I use http://www.cresswater.co.uk/about.html a Dr Rick Hudson as consultant
and I get what I want.

If you want advice consult him and you will get what you want.

Planning permission for a reed bed is a quite separate issue from EA
consent.

Peter Crosland

"Ratty" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"John Anderton" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 06:23:08 -0000, "Ratty"
wrote:


You have the best now, the modern equivalent is the Albion which
consists
of
two parallel concrete rings which goes to soakaway.

1. What I would do I would re-do the spreader, empty the tank, and it
will
be as good as new. The reason the spreader has failed is because the
tank
has not been emptied regularly. Empting depends how thick is the crust
in
the primary tank 18" is max.

2. The alternative is a reed bed system. SepticTank to reed bed tank
1,
to
next reed bed, then to discharge to pond with fish or ditch or river.
The
Environ Agency (EA) love reed beds.

In my system I have permit to discharge to ditch or river, my system
is
for
10 people. I have Albion going into 2 small reed bed tanks then to
pond
overflow to open ditch. I scoop out the crust every 2 years as I need
the
grey water to feed the reeds. The fish in the pond love it, the water
was
checked, for the first year by EA, and they don't come any more. I
built
it
all 7 years ago and its perfect. Permit is for life of system.


One thing to bear in mind though is that the rules changed about three
or four years ago and the EA are now substantially tougher about
things so what was fine seven years ago may not be acceptable today
:-(


That explains it. We looked at putting a reed bed in and got a
straightforward "NO!"

Was that from the EA, or building regulations.


The planning authority.

In article , TonyK
writes
We have an old septic tank, ie. big concrete box in the ground, half
settlement tank and half clinker.

The tank is well past is useby date and we've just discovered the original
drains are failing etc. I'm looking at a £3K bill just to get the damn thing
emptied due to its location.


That sounds horrendous, where the hell is it? we had one at the bottom
of the garden next to a river which was too far from the road to empty,
we always used a local farmer to empty ours and he just drove in the
field the other side of the river with his sludgebuster and emptied it
across the river, cost about £70 IIRC.
--
David

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:33:48 +0000, . wrote:

That sounds horrendous, where the hell is it? we had one at the bottom of
the garden next to a river which was too far from the road to empty, we
always used a local farmer to empty ours and he just drove in the field
the other side of the river with his sludgebuster and emptied it across
the river, cost about £70 IIRC.

And I bet he declared the £70 to the Inland Revenue - not.
--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:13:41 +0000, Tony Hogarty
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:33:48 +0000, . wrote:

That sounds horrendous, where the hell is it? we had one at the bottom of
the garden next to a river which was too far from the road to empty, we
always used a local farmer to empty ours and he just drove in the field
the other side of the river with his sludgebuster and emptied it across
the river, cost about £70 IIRC.

And I bet he declared the £70 to the Inland Revenue - not.


I would guess he would, because the local sewage works would have a
record of him giving them part of the 70 quid to empty his tank .....

Rick

And by so doing both you and the farmer have committed a criminal offence!
You could well get a large £500 plus fine for it.

Peter Crosland

In article , Peter Crosland
writes
And by so doing both you and the farmer have committed a criminal offence!
You could well get a large £500 plus fine for it.

Peter Crosland

Who are you replying to Peter?


--
David

"." wrote in message
...
In article , Peter Crosland
writes
And by so doing both you and the farmer have committed a criminal offence!
You could well get a large £500 plus fine for it.

Peter Crosland

Who are you replying to Peter?


Don't you think any farmer with half a brain would simply pump the **** over
his muckpile far from the madding crowd? His chance of being found out are
somewhere approaching zero. Even with the threatened satellite observation
of his lands he only has to do it with a decent cloud cover - not hard in
the uk is it?

In article , John
writes

"." wrote in message
.. .
In article , Peter Crosland
writes
And by so doing both you and the farmer have committed a criminal offence!
You could well get a large £500 plus fine for it.

Peter Crosland

Who are you replying to Peter?


Don't you think any farmer with half a brain would simply pump the **** over
his muckpile far from the madding crowd? His chance of being found out are
somewhere approaching zero. Even with the threatened satellite observation
of his lands he only has to do it with a decent cloud cover - not hard in
the uk is it?

Possibly but not if they are licensed to carry out such work, they
perhaps wouldn't risk their license

--
David

I was replying to the suggestion that you get local farmer to empty it.

Peter Crosland

In article , Peter Crosland
writes
I was replying to the suggestion that you get local farmer to empty it.

Peter Crosland

My local farmer was a licensed council waste disposal service provider
as many of them are if they have the equipment, its a nice little
earner.
--
David