I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug
and the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next.
However, the bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather
rain is collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away.
There is probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have
any significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the
hole with one prepared load?

Colin

Colin Blackburn wrote:
I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug
and the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next.
However, the bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather
rain is collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away.
There is probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have
any significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the
hole with one prepared load?

Me, I'd avoid the whole issue.
Dig an extra spade depth at the middle of the bottom of the hole, and
empty it with a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Colin Blackburn wrote:
I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug
and the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next.
However, the bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather
rain is collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away.
There is probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have
any significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the
hole with one prepared load?

Me, I'd avoid the whole issue.
Dig an extra spade depth at the middle of the bottom of the hole, and
empty it with a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.

I think I'd do the same.

The hole needs to have a good square bottom, even better undercut the base
to prevent the lump moving (which I've seen happen).

Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

That will be for his own personal celluar base station !!.

Dave

--
For what we are about to balls up may common sense prevent us doing it
again
in the future!!

"Huge" wrote in message
...

Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

Four 17 ele Tonnas and an 80m trapped dipole?

Drool ;-)

Came in from work today to find new neighbour having "Sky" installed (2nd
attempt- first seemed to stop Saturday when installer put dish lowish on
wall, in gap between houses. A blind man could have seen it wouldn't get a
clear path).

2nd company go for chimmney option, dish is pointed directly at my
2m/70cm/6m and 4m antennas and maybe 4m from same. If the installer didn't
notice the antennas in the sky, the fact he had to pass the mast base to put
the ladder in my garden (with permission), should have given him a clue.

Oh well, not much on Sky worth watching ;-)

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Huge" wrote in message
...
Oh well, not much on Sky worth watching ;-)

With about 2.4kW ERP into his dish, will it matter if there's anything
worth
watching anyway?

And that is just if my M3 daughter is operating ;-)

73

Brian

Brian Reay wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
[...]
Me, I'd avoid the whole issue.
Dig an extra spade depth at the middle of the bottom of the hole, and
empty it with a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.


I think I'd do the same.

Fair enough.

The hole needs to have a good square bottom, even better undercut the base
to prevent the lump moving (which I've seen happen).

It has been undercut to some degree. It is also slightly oversize
compared to the specified size. The rag bolt is also supported on three
enormous stones which will add extra mass.

Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

A domestic wind charger. Did you guess wrong ;-)

Colin

"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message
...


Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

A domestic wind charger. Did you guess wrong ;-)

Sure did. I didn't think anyone was that sad ;-)

Make me feel better, stick at least a small antenna on the top
--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message
...
I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug and
the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next. However, the
bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather rain is
collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away. There is
probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have any
significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the hole
with one prepared load?

Concrete sets by chemical reaction, so it is quite happy setting underwater.
Some yachts carry a bag of sand and cement mix (well-sealed) as part of
their emergency repair kit because of that.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar" nightjar@ insert_my_surname_here.uk.com wrote:

"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message
...
I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug and
the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next. However, the
bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather rain is
collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away. There is
probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have any
significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the hole
with one prepared load?

Concrete sets by chemical reaction, so it is quite happy setting underwater.

However, water will diffuse in, and wetten the mix, making it weaker.
This is probably not relevant in this case.

Brian Reay wrote:
"Colin Blackburn" wrote in message
...


Let me guess what the tower is for ;-)

A domestic wind charger. Did you guess wrong ;-)


Sure did. I didn't think anyone was that sad ;-)

Not sad, desperate. We live off grid.

Make me feel better, stick at least a small antenna on the top

Only if it would be happy going around with the wind direction!

Colin

Colin Blackburn wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Me, I'd avoid the whole issue.
Dig an extra spade depth at the middle of the bottom of the hole, and
empty it with a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.
I think I'd do the same.
Fair enough.

Okay, I have the hole sorted and most of the water will be out by the
time I have concrete. I need 1.1 cubic metres of concrete and I'm
looking at ways of getting it there.

Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer could
only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand. If I was
to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of the spread
of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

I may yet get it mixed on site or find some local mini-mixer delivery
that could get the stuff directly into the hole.

Colin

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Colin Blackburn wrote:


Okay, I have the hole sorted and most of the water will be out by the
time I have concrete. I need 1.1 cubic metres of concrete and I'm
looking at ways of getting it there.

Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer
could only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand.
If I was to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of
the spread of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

I've just done a rough calc on the assumption that the heap will be a cone
with sides at 30 degrees to the horizontal. Not sure whether this is
reasonable, but if it is, the base would be a circle of diameter approx 2.5
metres.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Colin Blackburn wrote:


Okay, I have the hole sorted and most of the water will be out by the
time I have concrete. I need 1.1 cubic metres of concrete and I'm
looking at ways of getting it there.

Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer
could only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand.
If I was to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of
the spread of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

I've just done a rough calc on the assumption that the heap will be a cone
with sides at 30 degrees to the horizontal. Not sure whether this is
reasonable, but if it is, the base would be a circle of diameter approx 2.5
metres.

Just in case there's anything similar near you, Colin: at the main
branch of May's Carpets near here, they have a bin full of large sheets
of heavy polythene - 25p a sheet in the charity box. Some of them are
even reinforced, and would be just the thing for dumping concrete on.

Seems like a very good way of recycling used packaging.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Colin Blackburn wrote:


Okay, I have the hole sorted and most of the water will be out by the
time I have concrete. I need 1.1 cubic metres of concrete and I'm
looking at ways of getting it there.

Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer
could only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand.
If I was to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of
the spread of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?


I've just done a rough calc on the assumption that the heap will be a cone
with sides at 30 degrees to the horizontal. Not sure whether this is
reasonable, but if it is, the base would be a circle of diameter approx 2.5
metres.

42 degrees is about the angle most natural 'scree slopes' end up at.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Set Square wrote:


I've just done a rough calc on the assumption that the heap will be
a cone with sides at 30 degrees to the horizontal. Not sure whether
this is reasonable, but if it is, the base would be a circle of
diameter approx 2.5 metres.

42 degrees is about the angle most natural 'scree slopes' end up at.

OK - if the angle was 45 degrees, the base diameter would be about 2.1
metres - so it's still in the same general ballpark. [I don't know how wet
concrete compares with scree in this respect - it probably depends on *how*
wet it is.]
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article , "Colin Blackburn"
says...
snip
Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer could
only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand. If I was
to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of the spread
of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

I may yet get it mixed on site or find some local mini-mixer delivery
that could get the stuff directly into the hole.

Seems to me it would be no more effort to mix it yourself, with the
mixer placed at the edge of the hole.

Hi,

What size is the tower?
Would guy wires be a good idea?. If you are off grid then I would guess
your turbine is large - I would hate to see it topple in 100+mph winds.

I for one would like to know more about what you are doing. (does that
make me sad?) Perhaps you could start a new thread telling us how you
are doing this. Are you installing the whole system yourself or just
the concrete? What turbine are you going for? Inverter? Batteries?.
What site analysis have you done? I am sure there are lots of others on
this NG who are looking into alternative power and would love to hear
from someone actually doing it

Cheers,

Alan.

Rob Morley wrote:
In article , "Colin Blackburn"
says...
snip
Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer could
only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand. If I was
to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of the spread
of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

Seems to me it would be no more effort to mix it yourself, with the
mixer placed at the edge of the hole.

I thought about this but...

I know very little about mixing concrete and don't want to f*#k up for
obvious reasons.

I know (well, I think I know) that if I get C35 from Readymix it will be
C35.

The cost for what I need will be about 150 delivered.

The vague calculation I have done based on local builders' merchants
prices is not much short of that for the raw materials, before the hire
of a mixer.

For the peace of mind I have decided the Readymix solution if probably
better for me even if it means an hour's back breaking work getting the
stuff into the hole.

(Thanks also to previous replies about spread and free polythene.)

Colin

Alan wrote:
Hi,

What size is the tower?

6m

Would guy wires be a good idea?. If you are off grid then I would guess
your turbine is large - I would hate to see it topple in 100+mph winds.

It's a pre-designed system with a free standing tower, the base is
designed to support the tower in such adverse conditions.

I for one would like to know more about what you are doing. (does that
make me sad?) Perhaps you could start a new thread telling us how you
are doing this. Are you installing the whole system yourself or just
the concrete? What turbine are you going for? Inverter? Batteries?.
What site analysis have you done? I am sure there are lots of others on
this NG who are looking into alternative power and would love to hear
from someone actually doing it

Okay, see thread 'Off-grid power'

Colin

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:53:52 +0000, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

I'm currently putting in a base for a tower. The base is about a metre
cubed of concrete with a ragbolt assembly in the cube. The hole is dug
and the ragbolt is in position, filling it with concrete is next.
However, the bottom of the hole is in clay and with the current weather
rain is collecting in the bottom of the hole and not draining away.
There is probably an inch of water in the bottom. Will this water have
any significant effect on the concrete (C35 mix) if I was to fill the
hole with one prepared load?

Colin

Can my kids come round a play mud pies ......

Form observing the nature of this product when I did my foundayions

The most obvious issue is splatter, as you pour the concrete from a
wheelbarrow, the water will splatter, all over you, the second load
will splatter water, and runny concrete all over you.

The next issue must be when you walk on the stuff to flatten it, you
sort of float, a few inches below the top, I guess with it runny, you
will sink further, making bigger holes to fill to flatten it

The forcast (-4) for Saturday is not good for concrete ......

Rick

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 08:19:28 +0000, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

Colin Blackburn wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Me, I'd avoid the whole issue.
Dig an extra spade depth at the middle of the bottom of the hole, and
empty it with a wet+dry vacuum cleaner.
I think I'd do the same.
Fair enough.

Okay, I have the hole sorted and most of the water will be out by the
time I have concrete. I need 1.1 cubic metres of concrete and I'm
looking at ways of getting it there.

Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer could
only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand. If I was
to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of the spread
of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

I may yet get it mixed on site or find some local mini-mixer delivery
that could get the stuff directly into the hole.

Colin

Colin

This is something I spent lots of time working on, as I can not get
the mixer truck within 1/2 a mile of my house, and I had 3 trucks full
in one day .......

Options
1) The mix & barrow guys, they mix on site & barrow to your location,
proably your best option, as they charge for what you use. You simply
level it. However these guys seem to like more populated urban areas
to do business in.

2) The lorry based mixer.
They charge say 60 quid a cube for the RC35, and 25 quid a cube to
bring to nothing at all, so a 6 cube lorry will cost to 2*25 quid to
bring you freah air. Now you can get smaller 3 cube lorries, but again
they like populated urban areas, but in your case you will still pay
for lots of fresh air. Then you get delivery/waiting time. You get 5
mins + 5 mine a cube to empty the thing, then time on site is charged.
The stuff will not go solid all the time the lorry is turning, but if
you leave it too long it will go hard very soon after it leaves the
lorry. Beware, if you are a long way from the batching plant, you
might be cutting it fine.

3) "sexy" delivery systems on lorries
Some lorry based mixers have long shoots, conveyors or even pumps to
deliver the mix. over see notes on pumps below

4) concrete pumps
you get these on lorries, or smaller ones you shife by tractor, crane,
etc .. The mix has to be the right slimp, and you have to have lots of
water at the head end to clean the thing out. You can alos hire the
pump on its own for a DIY job, bit OTT for you I guess. A lorry based
one will cost 300 a day, and will pump a max of arround 200m. This
depends upon the terrain. You need to work out how to lay the pipes.

5) dumper truck
these come from 3 foot wide to huge monsters. You can only get about
half the quoted max load in, so a 3 tonne dumper is 3 tonne heaped, so
you get 1.5 tonne (about .75 cube) in it. If you have the lorry
delivery option, these are fun.

6) lorry & dump, then shovel & wheelbarrow
probably the hardest work of all. 1 cube will weight over 2 tonnes,
and you don't have long to do the work. I did a lorry - dumper - to
dump - sholvel - wheelbarrow - lay, with 6 cubes. Even with 4 guys, 3
were used to this work, we were knackered.

7) self mix with mixer, about the same amount of work as using lorry &
dump. Buy "ballast" from the local builders merchant.

8) mini digger, can be used in conjunction with any mechnical delivery
system, to locate the concrete more precisley

What I did/do

I take a lorry full (6 cubes), then run 1 or 2 * 3 tonne dumpers to
ferry the stuff, a mini digger to empty the dumper, and put the stuff
where I need it, and me, to level it off.

For smaller mixes, upto 3 cubes, I get all the stuff next to the
mixer, next to the hole, and have a mixing day. One of the kids plays
mud pies to level it off - take care this stuff will burn you.

I recommend you go for options 1, then option 7.

I recommend you start first thing in the morning, you then have all
day to clean up the mess, well you don't reallys, you have to do that
before it sets.

Rick

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:06:39 +0000, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:
In article , "Colin Blackburn"
says...
snip
Because of restricted access a standard (RMC, say) concrete mixer could
only deliver it onto the ground for me to barrow it in by hand. If I was
to take this route then has anyone any idea of the extent of the spread
of the pile so that I can plan for laying out polythene?

Seems to me it would be no more effort to mix it yourself, with the
mixer placed at the edge of the hole.

I thought about this but...

I know very little about mixing concrete and don't want to f*#k up for
obvious reasons.

I know (well, I think I know) that if I get C35 from Readymix it will be
C35.

The cost for what I need will be about 150 delivered.

The vague calculation I have done based on local builders' merchants
prices is not much short of that for the raw materials, before the hire
of a mixer.

For the peace of mind I have decided the Readymix solution if probably
better for me even if it means an hour's back breaking work getting the
stuff into the hole.

(Thanks also to previous replies about spread and free polythene.)

Colin


C35 is about 3-3.5 ballast to 1 cement by volume. ie 6 shovels of
ballast to half a bag of cement.