Hi

I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

The other 'problem' is this neighbour is a solicitor.

Have other poeple in this group has to face similar planning
applications by neighbours.

I am going to write to the council before the deadline runs out.
Should I hire a solicitor aswell?
How do I find out who owns a boundary wall?

A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.

I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Any advice appreciated

Kind Regards

Sarah

In article , Bramble
writes
Hi

I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

The other 'problem' is this neighbour is a solicitor.

Don't let that frighten you, strange as it may seem the are not above
the law they can be very bullying when it suits them..

Have other poeple in this group has to face similar planning
applications by neighbours.

I am going to write to the council before the deadline runs out.

Yes phone up their planning dept and ask for their opinion, most of them
are very helpful when approached in the right way.

Should I hire a solicitor aswell?

Well you can if U want, but that may not as yet be necessary unless you
have money to burn.

How do I find out who owns a boundary wall?

Should be on your deeds. You could ask the solicitor who did your
original conveyance, or the office junior who "actually" did it

A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.

Yes you'll need to check that out.

I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.


Well as it affects your property you should have adequate notice in
order to protest.

Any advice appreciated

Kind Regards

Sarah



--
Tony Sayer

"Bramble" wrote in message
news
Hi

I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

The other 'problem' is this neighbour is a solicitor.

Have other poeple in this group has to face similar planning
applications by neighbours.

I am going to write to the council before the deadline runs out.
Should I hire a solicitor aswell?
How do I find out who owns a boundary wall?

A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.

I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Any advice appreciated

Kind Regards

Sarah

There is something called 'ancient lights', which is maybe where you've got
the 20 years from. Try a google search on ancient lights. I did a similar
search a few years ago and got of useful info.

Good luck

Peter Scott

"Bramble" wrote:
I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

It sounds like the excavations required for the extension
will almost certainly invoke the requirements of the party
wall act. See www.partywallact.info I think. This won't
do anything to stop the planning application though.

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

That is "loss of amenity" in planning speak. The rights
to lights thing is complicated AFAIAA so you're
probably better off focussing on the loss of view.

[snip]
I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Definitely get your views known now, and appeal if
the application is granted. Planning applications are
(theoretically) only refused if they break local planning
conventions or contravene the local government
"structure plan" or similar. It is worth having a browse
through recent applications refused and approved at
your planning department to get an idea if this one is
likely to be approved. Sometimes you can do this
online e.g. my local council: www.torbay.gov.uk/publicaccess/

Under the freedom of information act, since January
you can ask for information about exactly how local
government decisions are made. This might be useful
if the application is accepted and you want to know
whether it's worth appealing.

Finally, remember that you may want to sell your house
at some point and that you will be required to declare
on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours. Also consider
exactly why you don't want the extension to be built and
weigh up the stress of a dispute against the loss of view
or light. You need to decide which is more important to
you.

HTH,
Al

"Bramble" wrote in message
news
Hi

I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

The other 'problem' is this neighbour is a solicitor

Have other poeple in this group has to face similar planning
applications by neighbours.

I am going to write to the council before the deadline runs out.

This is definitely the next thing you should do. Firstly ask to speak to the
planning officer dealing with the application. They should already be
considering the impact of the extension on your property

Often, planning officers use a rule of thumb for 'neighbourly' rear
extensions, which restricts their size such that they do not cross a 45
degree line (on plan) taken from the centre of the nearest windows of the
neighbouring properties. Remember this is a rule of thumb and each
application will be judged on it's own merits. An important factor is the
orientation of the backs of the properties. i.e. in the U.K. if your
neighbour extends to the south of your window, it would have a greater
impact (loss of sunlight) than if the extension was proposed to the north.

The planning officer has to take an objective view on these matters (which
is always difficult for the partes concerned themselves), but you could set
out a letter that explains all of your concerns to the planning officer (try
not to rant though), and hopefully a fair decision will be reached.

I wouldn't hire a solicitor, but instead you could speak to an architect or
similar for advice. You should get a free copy of The Party Wall etc Act
1996 guide for householders (available at your local council offices). The
Act does not affect the outcome of any planning application, but it does set
out legally binding terms for the carrying out of such work.


Should I hire a solicitor aswell?
How do I find out who owns a boundary wall?

As I understand it, a boundary wall, regardless of 'ownership' if used by
both neighbours, is governed by the Party Wall etc. Act, which is far too
long winded for me to explain tonight (Celebrity Big Brother is on).

I hope this give some pointers:

Speak to planning officer dealing with the application
Write to them, explaining your objections.

Get guide to party wall Act, read it and see if it helps.

Regards

Kevin
(Don't Quote Me!)

A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.

I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Any advice appreciated

Kind Regards

Sarah

--

take off your trousers to e-mail me
"Peter Scott" wrote in message
...

"Bramble" wrote in message
news


A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.




Kind Regards

Sarah



There is something called 'ancient lights', which is maybe where you've
got
the 20 years from. Try a google search on ancient lights. I did a similar
search a few years ago and got of useful info.

Good luck

Peter Scott


As I understand it and this is not comprehensive!! when I looked into "the
right to light" a few years back, it was not just that the window or
whatever had been there for 20 years but that you yourself had enjoyed this
light for the 20 year period. This normally knocks most people out the
equation. There are also some distance factors built into this as well.
HTH....a bit!

Bramble wrote:
Hi

I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

The other 'problem' is this neighbour is a solicitor.

Have other poeple in this group has to face similar planning
applications by neighbours.

I am going to write to the council before the deadline runs out.
Should I hire a solicitor aswell?
How do I find out who owns a boundary wall?

A friend said the Party Walls Act might help, and there is also a
'right to light' if light is reduced and the window has been there for
20 years.

I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Any advice appreciated

Kind Regards

Sarah


Again, go and speak to the planning officer involved. It is your right
to do so as you are materially affected by the proposal. I wouldn't go
in "How do I stop this?" but more "How does this affect me, and how
should I proceed?" He may well guide you on the things accepted as a
reason for objection. Some of the things we would normally expect to be
a ground for objection, aren't. ISTR (been out of this line of buis
since 1980) that EITHER 'right to light' or 'right to view' is not
grounds for objection. Please don't quote me, but get advise on this point.

As to the boundary wall, have a look at your deed plans. They SHOULD
show a 'T' mark on one side of each boundary line. The 'T' is on the
side of the boundary that 'owns' the boundary. The applicant's site
location plan that would have to be submitted with the application, MAY
be a copy of his deed plan and may also give an indication.

Andrew

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message ...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?



RT

Bramble wrote:

Any advice appreciated


Try these people :- http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/
--

Reply address is spamtrapped. Remove theobvious for valid e-mail address

Right to light - as I read it here
http://www.planning-applications.co.uk/righttolight.htm it seems that
the right to light is the window's irrespective of how long anyone has
had the benefit, or have I misunderstood it?

Anyway the first place to start with a planning issue is the planners
themselves. They are generally helpful but cautious about possible
disputes outside simple planning matters.

cheers

Jacob

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:20:07 UTC, "Kevin Brady"
wrote:

extensions, which restricts their size such that they do not cross a 45
I wouldn't hire a solicitor, but instead you could speak to an architect or
similar for advice. You should get a free copy of The Party Wall etc Act
1996 guide for householders (available at your local council offices).

Or he

http://tinyurl.com/ojqn

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

Bramble wrote:

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

And why does he know that you have ownership of the wall on the opposite
side of your property? Answer - he doesn't - he's making an assumption,
and he might be making a similar judgement about ownership of the wall
in question. So definitely check your deeds, as others have said...
althought be warned it might not be explicitly stated, in which case an
assumption might have to be made (and he may be right, therefore).

David

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:52:40 GMT, "[news]" wrote:


"Al Reynolds" wrote in message ...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?



RT


http://www.crutes.co.uk/content/pres...es/sep1_02.htm

Don.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:52:40 GMT, "[news]" wrote:


"Al Reynolds" wrote in message ...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?



RT



SPIF = Sellers Property Information Form

Don

"Don Spumey" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:52:40 GMT, "[news]" wrote:


"Al Reynolds" wrote in message ...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?



RT


http://www.crutes.co.uk/content/pres...es/sep1_02.htm

Don.


insufficient.



RT

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Bramble wrote:

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

And why does he know that you have ownership of the wall on the opposite
side of your property?

usually, looking at the front of your property (in a terrace for example)
you own and are responsible for the wall/boundary on the right.




RT

[news] typed:

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Bramble wrote:

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says he has ownership of that
wall, and I have ownership of the wall on teh otherside.

And why does he know that you have ownership of the wall on the
opposite side of your property?

usually, looking at the front of your property (in a terrace for
example) you own and are responsible for the wall/boundary on the
right.

OR Left or even both !

"[news]" wrote in message
...

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?

SPIF = Seller's Property Information Form

I didn't say it was law. But, if you are asked to complete
one and you lie, then you may have problems later. The
alternative is that you can refuse to fill it out, but that would
make most buyers suspicious. Now I suspect you could
count the number of conveyancers who wouldn't ask a
seller to complete this form on the fingers of one hand, so
the chances of just avoiding the SPIF are virtually none.

So, no it's not law, but it is nearly always requested.
Not filling it in will probably lose you the sale.
Lying on it might cost you later.

Clear enough?
Al

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...


Finally, remember that you may want to sell your house
at some point and that you will be required to declare
on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours. Also consider
exactly why you don't want the extension to be built and
weigh up the stress of a dispute against the loss of view
or light. You need to decide which is more important to
you.

HTH,
Al


IANAL but when a dispute is resolved it is no longer a dispute! Things just
need to be sorted before selling.

Fred wrote:
"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...


Finally, remember that you may want to sell your house
at some point and that you will be required to declare
on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.


IANAL but when a dispute is resolved it is no longer a dispute! Things just
need to be sorted before selling.

Yes, but the fact that there has *been* a dispute still needs to be
declared, and as such it is still a potential issue. If there is a
history of arguments with a neighour, that can certainly put off
potential purchasers.

FWIW, I've just scanned in the relevant questions on the SPIF on my most
recent house purchase. As you can see, it deliberately covers most
eventualities:


2.1 Do you know of any disputes or anything which might
lead to a dispute about this or any neighbouring property?

2.2 Have you received any complaints about anything you
have, or have not, done as owner?

2.3 Have you made any such complaints to any neighbour
about what the neighbour has or has not done?

3.1 Have you either sent or received any letters or
notices which affect your property or the neighbouring
property in any way (for example, from or to neighbours,
the council or a government department)?

3.2 Have you had any negotiations or discussions with
any neighbour or any local or other authority which affect
the property in any way?


David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...


Yes, but the fact that there has *been* a dispute still needs to be
declared, and as such it is still a potential issue. If there is a
history of arguments with a neighour, that can certainly put off
potential purchasers.

FWIW, I've just scanned in the relevant questions on the SPIF on my most
recent house purchase. As you can see, it deliberately covers most
eventualities:


2.1 Do you know of any disputes or anything which might
lead to a dispute about this or any neighbouring property?

2.2 Have you received any complaints about anything you
have, or have not, done as owner?

2.3 Have you made any such complaints to any neighbour
about what the neighbour has or has not done?

3.1 Have you either sent or received any letters or
notices which affect your property or the neighbouring
property in any way (for example, from or to neighbours,
the council or a government department)?

3.2 Have you had any negotiations or discussions with
any neighbour or any local or other authority which affect
the property in any way?


David

Not all SPIF forms are the same, either that or they have become far more
onerous in the last couple of years.

"Fred" wrote:
Not all SPIF forms are the same, either that or they have become far more
onerous in the last couple of years.

There is a standard practice guide for conveyancers,
so most use the same SPIF. I imagine it is updated
every time a solicitor is sued for not spotting something
they should have done.

Al

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...
"[news]" wrote in message
...

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...

you will be required to declare on the SPIF any disputes with
neighbours.

SPIF ? can you tell the group what this is and when it became law ?

SPIF = Seller's Property Information Form

I didn't say it was law. But, if you are asked to complete
one and you lie, then you may have problems later. The
alternative is that you can refuse to fill it out, but that would
make most buyers suspicious. Now I suspect you could
count the number of conveyancers who wouldn't ask a
seller to complete this form on the fingers of one hand, so
the chances of just avoiding the SPIF are virtually none.

So, no it's not law, but it is nearly always requested.
Not filling it in will probably lose you the sale.

Not necessarily. We wrote "unknown, please make you own investigations" on
most sections. As indeed did the person who sold us our latest property.
Really depends on how desirable a property is and the state of the market.

Lying on it might cost you later.

Agreed. Fill it at your own risk. There was no way our vendor could fill
it in so their solicitor gave me an off the record phone call and told me
where to go and look in the council archives and then to make a decision
based on that. In the end they purchased an insurance against the problems
being discovered and the sale went through. But it did take nine months.

Mike wrote:

Not necessarily. We wrote "unknown, please make you own investigations" on
most sections. As indeed did the person who sold us our latest property.
Really depends on how desirable a property is and the state of the market.

Did your form include the same sort of questions as mine, which I listed
elsewhere in this thread? eg "Have you received any complaints about
anything you have, or have not, done as owner?"

If so, how on earth can you answer 'unknown' to those?

David

"Mike" wrote:
But it did take nine months.

I think this is my point.
Al

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:57:01 -0000, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:


"Bramble" wrote:
I have been notified by my council that my neighbour intends to knock
down part of a boundary yard wall, and build a higher wall which will
become part of a kitchen extension attached to his house. We are
neighbours in a row of terraced houses

It sounds like the excavations required for the extension
will almost certainly invoke the requirements of the party
wall act. See www.partywallact.info I think. This won't
do anything to stop the planning application though.

My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

That is "loss of amenity" in planning speak. The rights
to lights thing is complicated AFAIAA so you're
probably better off focussing on the loss of view.

Except, of course, that no one has any "right" to a view whereas they
do have a right to light

[snip]
I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Definitely get your views known now, and appeal if
the application is granted.

The only person who can appeal an application once it is granted is
the applicant (unless proper procedures weren't followed and that's a
tricky path to take)

Planning applications are
(theoretically) only refused if they break local planning
conventions or contravene the local government
"structure plan" or similar.

or if the planning committee (local councilors) don't like it.

It is worth having a browse
through recent applications refused and approved at
your planning department to get an idea if this one is
likely to be approved. Sometimes you can do this
online e.g. my local council: www.torbay.gov.uk/publicaccess/

Under the freedom of information act, since January
you can ask for information about exactly how local
government decisions are made. This might be useful
if the application is accepted and you want to know
whether it's worth appealing.

See above, appealing once the application has been granted is *not*
the best way of stopping this. Making ones views known to the planning
officers/planning committee is.


Finally, remember that you may want to sell your house
at some point and that you will be required to declare
on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

I don't believe objecting to a planning application can be classed as
a dispute and since all correspondence is with the council, *not* the
neighbour, it isn't with them anyway.

Also consider
exactly why you don't want the extension to be built and
weigh up the stress of a dispute against the loss of view
or light. You need to decide which is more important to
you.

It's not a dispute. Everyone is quite entitled to express their views
on any planning application they like. Council planning departments
regularly notify affected householders of relevant applications
expressly so they can make their views known.

Cheers,

John

"John Anderton" wrote:
"Al Reynolds" wrote:

"Bramble" wrote:
My house is already slightly set back from his and my one kitchen
window looks out onto a narrow yard, with this shared wall to the
right. The proposed wall would result, I believe, in quite a bit of
light loss aswell and blocking my view.

That is "loss of amenity" in planning speak. The rights
to lights thing is complicated AFAIAA so you're
probably better off focussing on the loss of view.

Except, of course, that no one has any "right" to a view whereas they
do have a right to light

I didn't say they had a right to a view. I said that
losing a view would represent loss of amenity,
which is one of the things considered in planning
applications.

*Very few* people have any right to light.

[snip]
I dont know whether to appeal now, or whether using solicitor would be
too late if the planning appliactino is approved.

Definitely get your views known now, and appeal if
the application is granted.

The only person who can appeal an application once it is granted is
the applicant (unless proper procedures weren't followed and that's a
tricky path to take)

Hence why I said to get views known now.
By appeal, I meant protest, not a specific
process of appeal, so you are undoubtedly
correct on this point. You can challenge a
planning decision through the courts.

Planning applications are
(theoretically) only refused if they break local planning
conventions or contravene the local government
"structure plan" or similar.

or if the planning committee (local councilors) don't like it.

They still have to justify it through convention
or the local plan etc. They can't *just* refuse
it because they don't like it - they have to find
(or make up) a reason.

In this case, the OP can use this to their
advantage, by finding some way in which
the neighbours plans contravene the local
structure plan or local planning conventions.
The planning department would have a
hard time approving the plans then.

It is worth having a browse
through recent applications refused and approved at
your planning department to get an idea if this one is
likely to be approved. Sometimes you can do this
online e.g. my local council: www.torbay.gov.uk/publicaccess/

Under the freedom of information act, since January
you can ask for information about exactly how local
government decisions are made. This might be useful
if the application is accepted and you want to know
whether it's worth appealing.

See above, appealing once the application has been granted is *not*
the best way of stopping this. Making ones views known to the planning
officers/planning committee is.

Which is why I suggested the OP should
get their views known now.

Finally, remember that you may want to sell your house
at some point and that you will be required to declare
on the SPIF any disputes with neighbours.

I don't believe objecting to a planning application can be classed as
a dispute and since all correspondence is with the council, *not* the
neighbour, it isn't with them anyway.

I don't recall saying that objecting to a
planning application represented a dispute,
but there a several ways this situation could
end up as a dispute between neighbours.

It probably will become a dispute if the OP
starts invoking party wall act etc. Also, the
neighbour will probably guess why their
application has been refused (if it is) and
may decide to start their own dispute.

A dispute is a dispute even if you don't start it.

Also consider
exactly why you don't want the extension to be built and
weigh up the stress of a dispute against the loss of view
or light. You need to decide which is more important to
you.

It's not a dispute. Everyone is quite entitled to express their views
on any planning application they like. Council planning departments
regularly notify affected householders of relevant applications
expressly so they can make their views known.

In my post, I suggested commenting on the
application regardless of anyhting else. I
wasn't suggesting that commenting on a
planning application represented a dispute,
but several of the possible ensuing situations
could easily result in a dispute.

The OP needs to consider all the possibilities.
One of which is to go back to their neighbour
and express their concerns. They may be able
to sort it out between them. If this is not the
case then there is a strong likelihood that this
situation will result in conflict between the OP
and their neighbour at some point, unless the
OP decides it's not worth the grief and just lets
them have their extension.

The decision about whether it's worth the
grief or not depends on how bad it's actually
going to be with a higher wall on their back yard.

Al