Dear group,

My home improvement programme is in danger of being held up due to
conflicting advice I have received regarding how to attach insulated plaster
boards to 9 inch solid brick walls built with lime mortar.

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall :-

http://www.brent.gov.uk/bccs.nsf/24878f4b00d4f0f68025663c006c7944/bda0a799ca60698c80256c1d0047621d/$FILE/BCCS%20Dry%20lining%20Solid%20Blockwork%20info%20s heet%20No.7.doc

A video made 10 years ago by a local university shows waterproof sand/cement
render being applied then the insulating boards attached with adhesive dabs,
the boards then being skimmed.

The outside of the wall is rendered and I don't appear to have problems with
penetrating damp

yours,

"confused" of Bristol

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap
over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall :-

The Council are simply requiring you to follow current building control
standards. These change over time and what was considered appropriate ten
years ago is often different from that now required. These rules apply
across the country not just to Brent. Under certain circumstances they can
allow a particular job to be done in a different way if it is considered
appropriate.

In article ,
"brugnospamsia" says...
Dear group,

My home improvement programme is in danger of being held up due to
conflicting advice I have received regarding how to attach insulated plaster
boards to 9 inch solid brick walls built with lime mortar.

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall :-

http://www.brent.gov.uk/bccs.nsf/24878f4b00d4f0f68025663c006c7944/bda0a799ca60698c80256c1d0047621d/$FILE/BCCS%20Dry%20lining%20Solid%20Blockwork%20info%20s heet%20No.7.doc

A video made 10 years ago by a local university shows waterproof sand/cement
render being applied then the insulating boards attached with adhesive dabs,
the boards then being skimmed.

The outside of the wall is rendered and I don't appear to have problems with
penetrating damp

I'd go with the council - applying modern materials to old buildings
can lead to problems when it disrupts the movement or breathing of
the structure, which a waterproof render is likely to do.

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...
Dear group,

My home improvement programme is in danger of being held up due to
conflicting advice I have received regarding how to attach insulated
plaster
boards to 9 inch solid brick walls built with lime mortar.

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap
over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall :-


http://www.brent.gov.uk/bccs.nsf/248...944/bda0a799ca
60698c80256c1d0047621d/$FILE/BCCS%20Dry%20lining%20Solid%20Blockwork%20info%
20sheet%20No.7.doc

A video made 10 years ago by a local university shows waterproof
sand/cement
render being applied then the insulating boards attached with adhesive
dabs,
the boards then being skimmed.

The outside of the wall is rendered and I don't appear to have problems
with
penetrating damp


Knowledge on old houses has come on a lot in the last ten years.
Look at www.periodproperty.co.uk for a variety of articles on the subject.

We had to remove some of this waterproof render applied some twenty years
ago as the wall had gone green. Removing it of course took some of the lime
mortar with it so this had to be redone as well.

Once dried out, we used an average two inch gap (varies a bit as property is
random stone), and again no waterproofing applied. Make sure the air gap is
well ventilated. Upstairs is easy into the eaves but downstairs can be a
real pig. You need to put in airbricks and monitor whether damp is
collecting behind the insulation which of course is somewhat difficult to do
as you have to leave temporary access panels and plaster these up later. If
damp does collect you need to add more airbricks or a fan until things
stabilise.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...
Dear group,

My home improvement programme is in danger of being held up due to
conflicting advice I have received regarding how to attach insulated
plaster
boards to 9 inch solid brick walls built with lime mortar.

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap
over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall :-


http://www.brent.gov.uk/bccs.nsf/248...944/bda0a799ca
60698c80256c1d0047621d/$FILE/BCCS%20Dry%20lining%20Solid%20Blockwork%20info%
20sheet%20No.7.doc

A video made 10 years ago by a local university shows waterproof
sand/cement
render being applied then the insulating boards attached with adhesive
dabs,
the boards then being skimmed.

The outside of the wall is rendered and I don't appear to have problems
with
penetrating damp


Knowledge on old houses has come on a lot in the last ten years.
Look at www.periodproperty.co.uk for a variety of articles on the subject.

We had to remove some of this waterproof render applied some twenty years
ago as the wall had gone green. Removing it of course took some of the
lime
mortar with it so this had to be redone as well.

Once dried out, we used an average two inch gap (varies a bit as property
is
random stone), and again no waterproofing applied. Make sure the air gap
is
well ventilated. Upstairs is easy into the eaves but downstairs can be a
real pig. You need to put in airbricks and monitor whether damp is
collecting behind the insulation which of course is somewhat difficult to
do
as you have to leave temporary access panels and plaster these up later.
If
damp does collect you need to add more airbricks or a fan until things
stabilise.




Gawd, it gets worse and worse !

One thing I'm trying to avoid is having to pay for too much skimming so I
was hoping to avoid mechanical fixings.
I wonder if I could attach the boards to the battens with adhesive ?

The main problem I see is the difficulty in sealing on the warm, moist side
where the boards meet the floor.

Where adhesive is recommended it is laid in a grid to form sealed cells.

Perhaps a hybrid system would work with boards attached to the battens with
adhesive and with battens along the floor well sealed to the wall with
mastic ?

my idea :-

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/walldetail.JPG

=========================


"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...
Dear group,

My home improvement programme is in danger of being held up due to
conflicting advice I have received regarding how to attach insulated
plaster
boards to 9 inch solid brick walls built with lime mortar.

Brent borough council insist on battening and hence a generous air gap
over
brickwork with no waterproofing treatment applied directly to the wall
:-


http://www.brent.gov.uk/bccs.nsf/248...944/bda0a799ca
60698c80256c1d0047621d/$FILE/BCCS%20Dry%20lining%20Solid%20Blockwork%20info%
20sheet%20No.7.doc

A video made 10 years ago by a local university shows waterproof
sand/cement
render being applied then the insulating boards attached with adhesive
dabs,
the boards then being skimmed.

The outside of the wall is rendered and I don't appear to have problems
with
penetrating damp


Knowledge on old houses has come on a lot in the last ten years.
Look at www.periodproperty.co.uk for a variety of articles on the
subject.

We had to remove some of this waterproof render applied some twenty years
ago as the wall had gone green. Removing it of course took some of the
lime
mortar with it so this had to be redone as well.

Once dried out, we used an average two inch gap (varies a bit as property
is
random stone), and again no waterproofing applied. Make sure the air gap
is
well ventilated. Upstairs is easy into the eaves but downstairs can be a
real pig. You need to put in airbricks and monitor whether damp is
collecting behind the insulation which of course is somewhat difficult to
do
as you have to leave temporary access panels and plaster these up later.
If
damp does collect you need to add more airbricks or a fan until things
stabilise.




Gawd, it gets worse and worse !

One thing I'm trying to avoid is having to pay for too much skimming so I
was hoping to avoid mechanical fixings.
I wonder if I could attach the boards to the battens with adhesive ?

The main problem I see is the difficulty in sealing on the warm, moist
side where the boards meet the floor.

Where adhesive is recommended it is laid in a grid to form sealed cells.

Perhaps a hybrid system would work with boards attached to the battens
with adhesive and with battens along the floor well sealed to the wall
with mastic ?

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...

SNIP


Perhaps a hybrid system would work with boards attached to the battens
with adhesive and with battens along the floor well sealed to the wall
with mastic ?



Why do you have this maina for fixing the boards with adhesive - whats wrong
with plasterboard nails through the boards into the battens?

"John" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...

SNIP


Perhaps a hybrid system would work with boards attached to the battens
with adhesive and with battens along the floor well sealed to the wall
with mastic ?



Why do you have this maina for fixing the boards with adhesive - whats
wrong
with plasterboard nails through the boards into the battens?



I'm trying to avoid paying a plasterer to skim the boards afterwards -
hoping to use taper-edge boards and special filler.

If I could have used "dabs" it would have been a 10 minute job :-)
yours,

"Skinflint" of Bristol

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...
Gawd, it gets worse and worse !

One thing I'm trying to avoid is having to pay for too much skimming so I
was hoping to avoid mechanical fixings.
I wonder if I could attach the boards to the battens with adhesive ?

I see you haven't discovered Gyproc Easyfill then ? :-) My wife can
produce a plaster finish so smooth even the paint falls off :-) (well not
quite but you get the point)


The main problem I see is the difficulty in sealing on the warm, moist
side
where the boards meet the floor.

Yep - Do you have a solid or vented underfloor. If the later it is easy.
For the former, the best solution is to actually build a false floor and
vent this as well. Kingspan on the underside of the floor (i.e. similar to
what you are doing on the wall) increases insulation considerably.

Also if the floor is solid, does it allow damp through from under (stone or
tiles on soil, lime concrete, etc) or is it impervious to water (real
concrete) ?

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...
Gawd, it gets worse and worse !

One thing I'm trying to avoid is having to pay for too much skimming so
I
was hoping to avoid mechanical fixings.
I wonder if I could attach the boards to the battens with adhesive ?

I see you haven't discovered Gyproc Easyfill then ? :-) My wife can
produce a plaster finish so smooth even the paint falls off :-) (well not
quite but you get the point)


The main problem I see is the difficulty in sealing on the warm, moist
side
where the boards meet the floor.

Yep - Do you have a solid or vented underfloor. If the later it is easy.
For the former, the best solution is to actually build a false floor and
vent this as well. Kingspan on the underside of the floor (i.e. similar
to
what you are doing on the wall) increases insulation considerably.

Also if the floor is solid, does it allow damp through from under (stone
or
tiles on soil, lime concrete, etc) or is it impervious to water (real
concrete) ?

Both are suspended floors. Looks like I'll be insulating the downstairs
floor and improving the ventilation under it.
Since the upstairs floor will be a warm / moist environment, I will either
have to continue the air channel / insulation through the floor between the
joists or have seperate vents through the wall upstairs.(may have to be the
latter - especially as the joists run front to back and I'm quite likely to
be replacing one of the upstairs floors and using wallplates and hangers )

No doubt there will be horrendous temperature differential cracking if I
don't insulate the wall under the upstairs floor ....)

It's a pity the kitchen is not being done for a bit as I have broken all the
rules there. It is the most exposed part of the house with every kind of
wall construction (but plastered) - all battenened with 1 inch of expanded
polystyrene slab crammed in, then leaky ply wallboards so I will see if all
this palarver is really neccessary :-)