My mother was sent a letter today from the local council who own the other
half of her semi-detached house. The letter refers to the Party Wall act
section 6, 1996. It states:

"We are proposing to carry out a mini auger recinforced concrete piled raft
foundation system throughout the ground floor of number xx together with
refurbishment of the property on completion.

The works proposed are as depicted on the enclosed plan and you may feel you
can concur with these being carried out without the preparation and
agreement of a formal "Party Wall Award". In such circumstance we would
compile a schedule of conditions, with your agreement, of the areas adjacent
to the party wall, together with supporting photographs, as a record of the
existing defects in your property.

If you feel your interests would be better served by the preparation of a
formal award, then you may nonetheless concur with the appointment of a
third surveyor, who will impartially regulate matters affecting us both."



I guess many of you have received similar "Party Wall notices", but its the
first time I have encountered one. Would it be sufficient to go with the
councils record of the condition of the house, or should we go for a
"formal award"?
What would we need to do from our our side if we ask for a "formal award"?
Would we need to find and hire the "third surveyor" (their wording). I
think that they must mean a third party surveyor.

The house is ex-council, built on very heavy clay and is about 50 years
old. My mothers house has a number of cracks in the internal walls which
have been there for decades. They just decorate over them. I don't think the
party wall has any significant cracks.

Hi there,

In ,
JL wrote:
[letter from the local council]

The works proposed are as depicted on the enclosed plan and you may
feel you can concur with these being carried out without the
preparation and agreement of a formal "Party Wall Award". In such
circumstance we would compile a schedule of conditions, with your
agreement, of the areas adjacent to the party wall, together with
supporting photographs, as a record of the existing defects in your
property.

The building next door to me was demolished some years ago, turning my then
terraced house into a semi. Though the Council didn't own the property,
they dealt with demolition and pre-works survey.

They sent round a *snotty* surveyor, who searched out anything remotely
substandard in that area at the outset so when the work was over they
could - and did - claim any damage was pre-existing.

When the damage was *not* confined to the party wall [i.e. ceilings shoved
out of whack, windows that wouldn't open etc.], they pointed to their
"survey" and said "we're only interested in *this* bit".

So I'd advise you to photograph other areas yourself; walls at right angles
to the party wall, ceiling angles to the walls and anything else you might
think of. If you have a digital camera, it won't cost a bean unless you
print them. If you don't have one, now might be a good time to buy one.

If you feel your interests would be better served by the preparation
of a formal award, then you may nonetheless concur with the
appointment of a third surveyor, who will impartially regulate
matters affecting us both."

A good idea, but still keep an eye on things and, most important, *take your
own photographs*, over time too. Keep a written record of any remarkable
events. You may have to become quite annoying if there is any problem. I
hope there won't be, though.

What would we need to do from our our side if we ask for a "formal
award"? Would we need to find and hire the "third surveyor" (their
wording). I think that they must mean a third party surveyor.

I suspect they missed the "party" as LAs so often do. I didn't have to hire
the structural engineer who supervised the repairs but there was another
party involved in my case with whom I liaised. Might be worth checking with
your buildings insurer. You shouldn't have to *pay* when you're gaining
nothing IMHO.

The house is ex-council, built on very heavy clay and is about 50
years old. My mothers house has a number of cracks in the internal
walls which have been there for decades. They just decorate over
them. I don't think the party wall has any significant cracks.

Get photos of all the internal cracks before work starts. Keep an eye open
for any developing while it goes on. The works may cause no problems, and I
sincerely hope that's the case, but it's best to be prepared.

It took a long time to sort out the mess my place was left in. In my favour
was that the *other* semi [untouched by the actual work] developed cracks
too. And a piece in the local newspaper after two years.

Sorry to sound like the Prophet of Doom. But I wish I'd been a bit more
savvy.

HTH

--
Gill

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 12:58:52 GMT, "SmileyFace"
wrote:

Hi there,

In ,
JL wrote:
[letter from the local council]

The works proposed are as depicted on the enclosed plan and you may
feel you can concur with these being carried out without the
preparation and agreement of a formal "Party Wall Award". In such
circumstance we would compile a schedule of conditions, with your
agreement, of the areas adjacent to the party wall, together with
supporting photographs, as a record of the existing defects in your
property.

The building next door to me was demolished some years ago, turning my then
terraced house into a semi. Though the Council didn't own the property,
they dealt with demolition and pre-works survey.

They sent round a *snotty* surveyor, who searched out anything remotely
substandard in that area at the outset so when the work was over they
could - and did - claim any damage was pre-existing.

When the damage was *not* confined to the party wall [i.e. ceilings shoved
out of whack, windows that wouldn't open etc.], they pointed to their
"survey" and said "we're only interested in *this* bit".

So I'd advise you to photograph other areas yourself; walls at right angles
to the party wall, ceiling angles to the walls and anything else you might
think of. If you have a digital camera, it won't cost a bean unless you
print them. If you don't have one, now might be a good time to buy one.

If you feel your interests would be better served by the preparation
of a formal award, then you may nonetheless concur with the
appointment of a third surveyor, who will impartially regulate
matters affecting us both."

A good idea, but still keep an eye on things and, most important, *take your
own photographs*, over time too. Keep a written record of any remarkable
events. You may have to become quite annoying if there is any problem. I
hope there won't be, though.

What would we need to do from our our side if we ask for a "formal
award"? Would we need to find and hire the "third surveyor" (their
wording). I think that they must mean a third party surveyor.

I suspect they missed the "party" as LAs so often do. I didn't have to hire
the structural engineer who supervised the repairs but there was another
party involved in my case with whom I liaised. Might be worth checking with
your buildings insurer. You shouldn't have to *pay* when you're gaining
nothing IMHO.

The house is ex-council, built on very heavy clay and is about 50
years old. My mothers house has a number of cracks in the internal
walls which have been there for decades. They just decorate over
them. I don't think the party wall has any significant cracks.

Get photos of all the internal cracks before work starts. Keep an eye open
for any developing while it goes on. The works may cause no problems, and I
sincerely hope that's the case, but it's best to be prepared.

It took a long time to sort out the mess my place was left in. In my favour
was that the *other* semi [untouched by the actual work] developed cracks
too. And a piece in the local newspaper after two years.

Sorry to sound like the Prophet of Doom. But I wish I'd been a bit more
savvy.

HTH

And the best way to "date" the photos, is to burn them to CD, put in
envelope & post. Then don't open the letter. The postmark acts as a
date.

Rick

Rick Dipper wrote:

And the best way to "date" the photos, is to burn them to CD, put in
envelope & post. Then don't open the letter. The postmark acts as a
date.

It doesn't prove the date at all. What is to stop you posting an empty,
unsealed envelope to yourself, inserting the CD at a later date and then
sealing it?

In article , Jl wrote:
What would we need to do from our our side if we ask for a
"formal award"? Would we need to find and hire the "third
surveyor" (their wording). I think that they must mean a third
party surveyor.

You have the right to appoint your own surveyor whose reasonable
fees should be paid by the person doing the work. If you do, the
first thing the two surveyors should do is to agree on a third
surveyor: in my very limited experience of these things some years
back we agreed that the third surveyor should be "someone nominated
by the President of the RICS" (he delegates this to a department).
In 99% of cases the third surveyor is never involved: they are there
to act as an arbitrator if the two surveyors cannot agree. Your
surveyor will draw up a schedule of condition of the relevant parts
of your property (with photos as necessary) and the other surveyor
will be asked to agree it before any work is done. It's 100% better
than just taking your own photos and trying to prove their validity
at a later date.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Andy Burns wrote:
Rick Dipper wrote:

And the best way to "date" the photos, is to burn them to CD, put in
envelope & post. Then don't open the letter. The postmark acts as a
date.


It doesn't prove the date at all. What is to stop you posting an empty,
unsealed envelope to yourself, inserting the CD at a later date and then
sealing it?

Used to be suggested that sending it registered was deemed sufficient
proof, since the PO would check it was sealed and stamp over the "openings".
Don't know if it's still the case.

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

Don't know if it's still the case,
With whatever service they replaced registered with.


--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

Lee wrote:

Used to be suggested that sending it registered was deemed sufficient
proof, since the PO would check it was sealed and stamp over the
"openings".
Don't know if it's still the case.

To prove a date on something, I think you need to lodge it (or possibly
have it sealed) by someone reputable, I wouldn't include the PO in that
category.

I recently had a registered delivery disappear back into the system
after PO initial delivery attempt, their "please collect" postcard was
the only evidence I had that it even existed, for a week they didn't
know where it was, eventually they did phone to say it had re-appeared,
I went to collect it, just in case ...

Lee wrote:

With whatever service they replaced registered with.

Thought it was _still_ registered delivery?

In article ,
"Andy Burns" says...
Lee wrote:

With whatever service they replaced registered with.

Thought it was _still_ registered delivery?

Special or Recorded Delivery, there's no "Registered" any more.

Andy Burns wrote:

To prove a date on something, I think you need to lodge it (or possibly
have it sealed) by someone reputable, I wouldn't include the PO in that
category.

I'd be inclined to leave a lot of lawyers out of that category as well
Though I suppose that's the accepted thing to do.

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

SmileyFace wrote:
If you have a digital camera, it won't cost a bean unless you
print them. If you don't have one, now might be a good time to buy
one.

ISTR reading somewhere that digital photos aren't acceptable in a court
of law -- perhaps someone can confirm? Court-wise or not, I can see the
Council surveyor pointing out it's all too easy to draw cracks on or
wipe 'em out.

Chris

And it's not easy to doctor a negative......?!

On 3 Jan 2005 03:52:39 -0800, wrote:


SmileyFace wrote:
If you have a digital camera, it won't cost a bean unless you
print them. If you don't have one, now might be a good time to buy
one.

ISTR reading somewhere that digital photos aren't acceptable in a court
of law -- perhaps someone can confirm? Court-wise or not, I can see the
Council surveyor pointing out it's all too easy to draw cracks on or
wipe 'em out.

Chris

Rick Dipper wrote:


And the best way to "date" the photos, is to burn them to CD, put in
envelope & post. Then don't open the letter. The postmark acts as a
date.

Eh? What does this prove?

Post an empty unsealed envelope to yourself now, then take photos
whenever you like and put them in the envelope and seal it.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Googolplex wrote:

Rick Dipper wrote:


And the best way to "date" the photos, is to burn them to CD, put in
envelope & post. Then don't open the letter. The postmark acts as a
date.

Eh? What does this prove?

Post an empty unsealed envelope to yourself now, then take photos
whenever you like and put them in the envelope and seal it.

You *could* send it by Special Delivery, using an envelope provided by the
Post Office. They won't accept it unless it's sealed, and it can't be opened
non-destructively.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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