We've just bought a bathroom wall light, (from Habitat), that claims
to be Class 2 and specifically says that no earth should be attached.
Looking inside I can't see how on earth (pun intended!) it can be
double insulated, and I believe it will be much safer with an attached
earth. The case of the light is painted metal, (aluminium), and
inside there are mains votage wires. i.e. The separation between the
mains voltage and the aluminium consists of the brown single layer of
sheath around the cable and then the paint on the metalwork. Does
paint really class as a layer of insulation for these purposes?

Anyway, not withstanding the above I'm going to earth the b*gger,
especially as it's in a bathroom, which brings me on to the question
of supplementary bonding.
I know this is a well trodden subject in this group, but I still need
a little clarification.
The wall light is going to be wired in 1.5mm^2 T&E that I've burried
in the plaster. I know it is permissible to use the CPC for
supplementary bonding, so I presume this means that I am OK bonding
from the JB in the loft, (that feeds this light), onto all of my other
supplementary bonding?? Is the CPC in 1.5mm^2 suitable for this, as
I've read talk of min 4mm^2 for supplementary bonding???

Finally, if I do have to run in a separate supplementary bonding right
to the fitting, is this OK to run in the wall cavity, (as I forgot to
plaster one in the wall!) - Hopefully this will be irrelevant anyway,
as someone will tell me that the JB in the loft, being in 'close
proximity' to the wall light, is a suitable place to bond to.

In message , Mike Hall
writes
We've just bought a bathroom wall light, (from Habitat), that claims
to be Class 2 and specifically says that no earth should be attached.
Looking inside I can't see how on earth (pun intended!) it can be
double insulated, and I believe it will be much safer with an attached
earth. The case of the light is painted metal, (aluminium), and
inside there are mains votage wires. i.e. The separation between the
mains voltage and the aluminium consists of the brown single layer of
sheath around the cable and then the paint on the metalwork. Does
paint really class as a layer of insulation for these purposes?

Generally paint & enamels aren't counted for safety grade insulation.
I'm not totally familiar with the lighting equipment standards, but from
your description is doesn't sound like the product qualifies as double
insulated. If the insulated & sheathed mains wiring terminated inside
some sort of plastic housing (i.e. a fully enclosed lamp base) within an
otherwise metal case then OK, but if you're saying there are single
insulated wires possibly in contact with the metal case, that sounds
dodgy to me.

Anyway, not withstanding the above I'm going to earth the b*gger,
especially as it's in a bathroom, which brings me on to the question
of supplementary bonding.
I know this is a well trodden subject in this group, but I still need
a little clarification.
The wall light is going to be wired in 1.5mm^2 T&E that I've burried
in the plaster. I know it is permissible to use the CPC for
supplementary bonding, so I presume this means that I am OK bonding
from the JB in the loft, (that feeds this light), onto all of my other
supplementary bonding?? Is the CPC in 1.5mm^2 suitable for this, as
I've read talk of min 4mm^2 for supplementary bonding???
Yes you can do that.
4mm2 is the minimum where there is no mechanical protection, i.e. a
simple single core wire.

Finally, if I do have to run in a separate supplementary bonding right
to the fitting, is this OK to run in the wall cavity, (as I forgot to
plaster one in the wall!) - Hopefully this will be irrelevant anyway,
as someone will tell me that the JB in the loft, being in 'close
proximity' to the wall light, is a suitable place to bond to.

The J/B is close enough.
--
Steve

In article ,
Steven Briggs writes:
In message , Mike Hall
writes
We've just bought a bathroom wall light, (from Habitat), that claims
to be Class 2 and specifically says that no earth should be attached.
Looking inside I can't see how on earth (pun intended!) it can be
double insulated, and I believe it will be much safer with an attached
earth. The case of the light is painted metal, (aluminium), and
inside there are mains votage wires. i.e. The separation between the
mains voltage and the aluminium consists of the brown single layer of
sheath around the cable and then the paint on the metalwork. Does
paint really class as a layer of insulation for these purposes?

Generally paint & enamels aren't counted for safety grade insulation.
I'm not totally familiar with the lighting equipment standards, but from
your description is doesn't sound like the product qualifies as double
insulated. If the insulated & sheathed mains wiring terminated inside
some sort of plastic housing (i.e. a fully enclosed lamp base) within an
otherwise metal case then OK, but if you're saying there are single
insulated wires possibly in contact with the metal case, that sounds
dodgy to me.

I don't have the standards, but it was described on a course I did
a few years ago. IIRC, two layers of insulation are required. One
can be air, but something needs to ensure a suitable gap is maintained
in this case. Unsheathed insulated conductors which can come into
contact with exposed metalwork would not count as double insulated.
Are you sure additional sleeving wasn't provided to slide over the
singles (not that I'm sure if this makes any difference)?

--
Andrew Gabriel

Mike Hall writes

We've just bought a bathroom wall light, (from Habitat), that claims
to be Class 2 and specifically says that no earth should be attached.
Looking inside I can't see how on earth (pun intended!) it can be
double insulated, and I believe it will be much safer with an attached
earth. The case of the light is painted metal, (aluminium), and
inside there are mains votage wires. i.e. The separation between the
mains voltage and the aluminium consists of the brown single layer of
sheath around the cable and then the paint on the metalwork. Does
paint really class as a layer of insulation for these purposes?


IME there are numerous items marked as double insulated which in
reality dont meet Class 1 or 2 standards. I've heard it suggested that
the extra insulation is included until production stage, when it is
often dropped.

I couldnt trust [[]] marked goods to be upto standard without an
inspection.


Regards, NT

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Steven Briggs writes:
In message , Mike Hall
writes
We've just bought a bathroom wall light, (from Habitat), that claims
to be Class 2 and specifically says that no earth should be attached.
Looking inside I can't see how on earth (pun intended!) it can be
double insulated, and I believe it will be much safer with an attached
earth. The case of the light is painted metal, (aluminium), and
inside there are mains votage wires. i.e. The separation between the
mains voltage and the aluminium consists of the brown single layer of
sheath around the cable and then the paint on the metalwork. Does
paint really class as a layer of insulation for these purposes?

Generally paint & enamels aren't counted for safety grade insulation.
I'm not totally familiar with the lighting equipment standards, but from
your description is doesn't sound like the product qualifies as double
insulated. If the insulated & sheathed mains wiring terminated inside
some sort of plastic housing (i.e. a fully enclosed lamp base) within an
otherwise metal case then OK, but if you're saying there are single
insulated wires possibly in contact with the metal case, that sounds
dodgy to me.

I don't have the standards, but it was described on a course I did
a few years ago. IIRC, two layers of insulation are required. One
can be air, but something needs to ensure a suitable gap is maintained
in this case. Unsheathed insulated conductors which can come into
contact with exposed metalwork would not count as double insulated.
Are you sure additional sleeving wasn't provided to slide over the
singles (not that I'm sure if this makes any difference)?

Yeah you could count an air gap if it was controlled (i.e. from a rigid
component), but wouldn't count from uncontrolled wires.
I've been trying to think if a seen anything similar to the OP's claim,
the nearest is a floor standing up-lighter I've got, metal body, but
double insulated two core feed, and the flex won't become un-sheathed
until safely in the lamp holder. So OK.
OTOH, I've had silicone sleeving provided with glass bowl type ceiling
fittings to slip over the incoming leads, but I'm fairly certain they
where earthed anyway and the sleeve was for high temperature protection.

Anyway, manufacturer's often get things wrong in production,
particularly the guy who menial task is to do the labels.
Start with a template label that has all approval logos & symbols, and
forget to delete them....
Not of course that I've seen product go out the factory with illicit
logos on labels, oh no ;-)

For the OP, was there any provision to earth the metalwork anyway ?

--
Steve

IME there are numerous items marked as double insulated which in reality
dont meet Class 1 or 2 standards. I've heard it suggested that the extra
insulation is included until production stage, when it is often dropped.

I couldnt trust [[]] marked goods to be upto standard without an
inspection.


Regards, NT

And most of this sort of stuff appears to come from our friends in Europe
!!!

Dave

--
Linux, breaking the pain of Windows

Steven Briggs wrote in message ...

For the OP, was there any provision to earth the metalwork anyway ?

No... not yet, but after a bit of work with a drill and a
nut/bolt/shakeproof washer there sure will be!

In uk.d-i-y, Mike Hall wrote:

No... not yet, but after a bit of work with a drill and a
nut/bolt/shakeproof washer there sure will be!

That's the spirit ;-) As I think I mentioned a couple of months ago, I had
a similar experience with some IKEA lights - five golfball lamps in a row
with shiny pressed-and-folded sheet metal backing. It claimed as yours to
be double-insulated and suitable for bathroom installation (in my case one
each side of a mirror above the sink, well out of reach of the shower but
still within a should-be-bonded Zone), and may even have met the letter of
that spec (though I wasn't that convinced by the details of the cable
routing). A few moments with a drill, nut-bolt-shakeproof to hold down a
ring crimp on the end of a handy length of green-and-yellow, and once again
Robert is a sibling to your parent...

Stefek