A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

Many thanks
David

On 27 Apr 2004 11:08:19 -0700, (Lobster)
wrote:

A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Apart from the ones that you haven't found yet ! I think the answer is yes,
it is queens that are now waking up and seeking out nest sites. I've
disposed of about 4 indoors already - they seem particularly adept at
finding their way in through barely open windows and ventilation holes.
Perhaps such things are interpreted as possible nest openings ?

I'd have a look up in the loft. You won't be in great danger as they are
still very dozy and quite probably all the queens have left anyway.
(Although to be honest I don't know how many you might get in one nest.
Last year's queen and all worker wasps will be dead, and this years' are a
result of late matings producing the only fertile females.)

--
I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

They are irrelevant. Queen wasps will seek out any habitat which is suitable
to build a nest. They're unlikely to start building in your bathroom - it's
too light.

They're not 'dozy', they're either seeking suitable sites to build a new
nest or are lost, having blundered into a space which might have looked like
a suitable space from outside.

But I thought only queens hibernated;

Yes they do - and only the new queens which were bred late last year.

is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once?

Poor things. They were damned but not in the way you mean ...

I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps,

It depends what you mean by 'normal'. The first worker wasps to emerge and
have been well fed are bigger than the ones at high season which don't get
the same supplies as earlier ones. Queen wasps, which you won't see for much
longer because they'll be busy in the nest, laying eggs, and not venturing
outside, are perhaps half as big again as workers. To the educated eye such
as mine they are a different shape too.

but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

No, for every hundred or more of queens which survive the winter only one
will survive 'intervention' to found new nests. Intervention includes not
finding suitable habitats, poisonous sprays, animal predation (birds,
mammals (including Man), disease, weaknesses and accident. But since many
queens survive the winter you have to kill (if you must) many more than four
to ensure that none will build in your property.

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

I hope I have done. But wasps are not really a problem ... you won't believe
me but I'm happy to explain more.

Mary

Many thanks
David

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

... you won't believe me but I'm happy to explain more.

I'm not sure I'll agree with you but I'm listening ...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem
for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

Of course it was. but wasps only sting as a reaction to a threat. To the
wasp the child's hand was a threat to its integrity. If something threatened
you you'd defend yourself, wouldn't you?

... you won't believe me but I'm happy to explain more.

I'm not sure I'll agree with you but I'm listening ...

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.

I'm talking about social wasps here by the way, which are a very small
proportion of the world's wasp community.

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

I've also been bitten by dogs (not as a defence by the way) but I'm not
frightened by dogs. I've been damaged in a car accident but I still drive.

We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he can
learn from others' attitudes.

He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

If you have any specific questions I'd be very pleased to discuss them,
using facts and not misconceptions.

Mary

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?
Anyway - if I see a wasp - I walk slowly away ... however ... every
other summer or so I get stung ... before I've even seen the bloody
thing (I've been stung twice while asleep!). Seems like a vendetta to me
.... they seem to 'know' - I'd slaughter the lot of 'em - sorry Mary!

Rob Griffiths wrote:

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?

No, you can tell an anaphylactic response, as you don't tend to use
usenet much afterwards.

"Rob Griffiths" wrote in message
...

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps
stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not
frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many
people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?

No, that's a mere 'local' response. Only the site round the sting is
affected. In a general (anaphylactic) response the whole body is affected,
blood pressure drops dangerously, there can be fainting, vomiting, voiding,
all over body rash and other symptoms - not always all at the same time or
even at all. It's a true allergy (the symptoms are not specific to insect
stings but can be caused by other allergens) and isn't all that common.
Swelling is NOT an allergic response, it's quite normal and while it can be
painful is not fatal. Anaphylaxis, without treatment, can be. The only
treatment is an injection of adrenaline.

Anyway - if I see a wasp - I walk slowly away

If a wasp were intent on stinging you that wouldn't do any good, it can fly
faster than you can walk :-)

... however ... every
other summer or so I get stung ... before I've even seen the bloody
thing (I've been stung twice while asleep!).

That's actually more common than you'd think. If you can see the wasp you
take care not to touch it. If you don't see it and accidentally touch it it
will defend itself by stinging, its only weapon. It can't reason with you
and ask you to remove whatever part of you is touching it!

Seems like a vendetta to me

Not at all. Well, there does seem to be a vendetta - against the wasps!

... they seem to 'know'

They don't. And the fact that you only get stung every other summer or so,
when there are millions of wasps flying around - shows that the others
aren't affected by you.

- I'd slaughter the lot of 'em - sorry Mary!

Well, I'd like to slaughter all cats and non-working dogs and very many
humans come to that :-)

It's a similar irrational response to something we don't like.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et

We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he can
learn from others' attitudes.

He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

Quite right. Wasps are every bit as useful as bees. They act as
slaughtermen for other insects thus a control.



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Mary Fisher wrote:

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

Well said! This ridiculous obsession man has with killing or destroying
absolutely everything around him bugs me[1] no end, especially the poor
old insects.

In a similar vein, we had the luck to see a water vole in the garden
t'other week and I can imagine this creature gets a very hard time due
to his passing resemblance to a brown rat.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[1] Pun intended

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Well said! This ridiculous obsession man has with killing or
destroying
absolutely everything around him bugs me[1] no end, especially the
poor
old insects.

I tend to agree but I draw the line at cherry black fly - if I see one I
squash it.

Neil

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem
for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

Of course it was. but wasps only sting as a reaction to a threat.

Sorry, I can't agree with you there.

One tried to sting me last year. I was sitting down quietly and if it
hadn't been for my uncharacteristicly fast reaction, I would have
received quite a nasty sting on my shoulder. As it was, I brushed it
away just as it started to sting me

--
geoff

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand
on a 'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

(I put the word in quotes because I just knew you'd challenge my use of it!
:-)

I meant that it (and several others) tended to fly around slowly[1] - indeed
they almost fell rather than flew out of the attic, and wander around slowly
on the floor or windowsill or other surfaces. (I daresay the wasps were
doing this entirely purposefully and I'm simply anthropomorphically
projecting soporificity onto them :-)


[1] compared to the speed of British Standard (or even the new European
standard :-) wasps.


....

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their
own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.
... There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

I generally agree with you. When the kids have tried to swat wasps I've
suggested that if they leave them alone the wasps are likely to leave them
alone (and vice versa :-).


Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the road
to hell.)


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife, the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zEVjc.643$7S2.250@newsfe1-win...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand
on a 'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

(I put the word in quotes because I just knew you'd challenge my use of
it!
:-)

I meant that it (and several others) tended to fly around slowly[1] -
indeed
they almost fell rather than flew out of the attic, and wander around
slowly
on the floor or windowsill or other surfaces. (I daresay the wasps were
doing this entirely purposefully and I'm simply anthropomorphically
projecting soporificity onto them :-)

They don't sleep.


[1] compared to the speed of British Standard (or even the new European
standard :-) wasps.

...

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their
own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.
... There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

I generally agree with you. When the kids have tried to swat wasps I've
suggested that if they leave them alone the wasps are likely to leave them
alone (and vice versa :-).


Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans
are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's
a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the
road
to hell.)


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a
three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife,
the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but
maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zEVjc.643$7S2.250@newsfe1-


Sorry for hitting send too quickly ...

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans
are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's
a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the
road
to hell.)

The word 'good' has several shades of meaning.

A school of thought is just that - A school of thought. There are others.


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a
three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife,
the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but
maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)

I've never even heard of it. When I had children (five in seven years) I was
too busy to read child rearing handbooks - and of course in my arrogance I
don't suppose I'd have thought I needed them. Why should an author know more
about how to bring up my children than I did?

Our children did fall and hurt themselves in other ways but not fatally.
They learned by advice and experience what to avoid. One was bitten by a dog
which had just whelped, the daughter had no idea of the defensive nature of
an animal in that condition but she did after it had been explained that it
wasn't a 'naughty' dog. I don't remember any of them ever being stung.

Two damaged themselves very foolishly and one seriously when they were in
the early teens, by fire. It was their own fault and they felt very guilty
about it, now they are both ambassadors for fire prevention and avoiding
such accidents. They couldn't have learned that from any book.


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

Mary

Lobster wrote:
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

We've got loads of nice big fat queen wasps blundering around at the moment,
looking for somewhere nice to nest - I can't remember seeing so many. We had
a nest behind the facia on the flat roof of the lounge last year, but I've
filled up the cracks so they don't choose that this year as it's right by
the patio doors. No doubt they'll find somewhere else, but as long as it's
somewhere a bit more out of the way, and they stay out of the house itself,
I'll leave 'em alone.

Rick

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

We've got loads of nice big fat queen wasps blundering around at the
moment,
looking for somewhere nice to nest - I can't remember seeing so many. We
had
a nest behind the facia on the flat roof of the lounge last year, but I've
filled up the cracks so they don't choose that this year as it's right by
the patio doors. No doubt they'll find somewhere else, but as long as it's
somewhere a bit more out of the way, and they stay out of the house
itself,
I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

Mary

Rick

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:25:09 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

--
If everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"John Laird" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:25:09 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

wrote:

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living
space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their nest is paper
and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp excavates holes in the ground to
nest - would you like that?

Mary

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:21:04 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"John Laird" wrote in message
.. .

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living
space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their nest is paper
and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp excavates holes in the ground to
nest - would you like that?

I know where you are coming from (having followed your beekeeping posts),
but am still struggling to get my head around the idea that a function of my
house is to provide additional accommodation for unwanted guests ;-)

Presumably wasps managed just fine before we erected nice cosy brick huts
for them, at a guess by nesting in tree trunks ? There are plenty of trees
in my garden...

--
Too much month at the end of the money.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

Many thanks
David

MY GOD Euro Wasps!!!!!

MY GOD Euro Wasps!!!!!

Impossible - it stands for White Anglo Saxon Protestant. If they were
from Europe, they would be BEES - Bloody Eastern European Sh... This
is a joke by the way.
John
In limine sapientiae