A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

Many thanks
David

On 27 Apr 2004 11:08:19 -0700, (Lobster)
wrote:

A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Apart from the ones that you haven't found yet ! I think the answer is yes,
it is queens that are now waking up and seeking out nest sites. I've
disposed of about 4 indoors already - they seem particularly adept at
finding their way in through barely open windows and ventilation holes.
Perhaps such things are interpreted as possible nest openings ?

I'd have a look up in the loft. You won't be in great danger as they are
still very dozy and quite probably all the queens have left anyway.
(Although to be honest I don't know how many you might get in one nest.
Last year's queen and all worker wasps will be dead, and this years' are a
result of late matings producing the only fertile females.)

--
I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

They are irrelevant. Queen wasps will seek out any habitat which is suitable
to build a nest. They're unlikely to start building in your bathroom - it's
too light.

They're not 'dozy', they're either seeking suitable sites to build a new
nest or are lost, having blundered into a space which might have looked like
a suitable space from outside.

But I thought only queens hibernated;

Yes they do - and only the new queens which were bred late last year.

is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once?

Poor things. They were damned but not in the way you mean ...

I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps,

It depends what you mean by 'normal'. The first worker wasps to emerge and
have been well fed are bigger than the ones at high season which don't get
the same supplies as earlier ones. Queen wasps, which you won't see for much
longer because they'll be busy in the nest, laying eggs, and not venturing
outside, are perhaps half as big again as workers. To the educated eye such
as mine they are a different shape too.

but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

No, for every hundred or more of queens which survive the winter only one
will survive 'intervention' to found new nests. Intervention includes not
finding suitable habitats, poisonous sprays, animal predation (birds,
mammals (including Man), disease, weaknesses and accident. But since many
queens survive the winter you have to kill (if you must) many more than four
to ensure that none will build in your property.

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

I hope I have done. But wasps are not really a problem ... you won't believe
me but I'm happy to explain more.

Mary

Many thanks
David

Lobster wrote:
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

We've got loads of nice big fat queen wasps blundering around at the moment,
looking for somewhere nice to nest - I can't remember seeing so many. We had
a nest behind the facia on the flat roof of the lounge last year, but I've
filled up the cracks so they don't choose that this year as it's right by
the patio doors. No doubt they'll find somewhere else, but as long as it's
somewhere a bit more out of the way, and they stay out of the house itself,
I'll leave 'em alone.

Rick

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

We've got loads of nice big fat queen wasps blundering around at the
moment,
looking for somewhere nice to nest - I can't remember seeing so many. We
had
a nest behind the facia on the flat roof of the lounge last year, but I've
filled up the cracks so they don't choose that this year as it's right by
the patio doors. No doubt they'll find somewhere else, but as long as it's
somewhere a bit more out of the way, and they stay out of the house
itself,
I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

Mary

Rick

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

... you won't believe me but I'm happy to explain more.

I'm not sure I'll agree with you but I'm listening ...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:25:09 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

--
If everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem
for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

Of course it was. but wasps only sting as a reaction to a threat. To the
wasp the child's hand was a threat to its integrity. If something threatened
you you'd defend yourself, wouldn't you?

... you won't believe me but I'm happy to explain more.

I'm not sure I'll agree with you but I'm listening ...

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.

I'm talking about social wasps here by the way, which are a very small
proportion of the world's wasp community.

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

I've also been bitten by dogs (not as a defence by the way) but I'm not
frightened by dogs. I've been damaged in a car accident but I still drive.

We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he can
learn from others' attitudes.

He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

If you have any specific questions I'd be very pleased to discuss them,
using facts and not misconceptions.

Mary

"John Laird" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:25:09 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

wrote:

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...

I'll leave 'em alone.

Good. They'll do you a favour in your garden.

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living
space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their nest is paper
and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp excavates holes in the ground to
nest - would you like that?

Mary

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?
Anyway - if I see a wasp - I walk slowly away ... however ... every
other summer or so I get stung ... before I've even seen the bloody
thing (I've been stung twice while asleep!). Seems like a vendetta to me
.... they seem to 'know' - I'd slaughter the lot of 'em - sorry Mary!

Rob Griffiths wrote:

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?

No, you can tell an anaphylactic response, as you don't tend to use
usenet much afterwards.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et

We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he can
learn from others' attitudes.

He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

Quite right. Wasps are every bit as useful as bees. They act as
slaughtermen for other insects thus a control.



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
A bit OT but I've seen quite a few threads here about them here...

I found four large, very dozy wasps in the bathroom yesterday.
Bathroom is currently open to the attic space because of some ongoing
d-i-y on the ceiling, so I'm sure they must have come from there.
We've had several nests up there over recent years.

But I thought only queens hibernated; is it really likely I've just
copped for four of the damned things at once? I don't know how much
bigger they are than normal wasps, but mine seemed on the large side
of 'standard'. If they were indeed queens, presumably the problem is
now over?

Before I get the ladders and torch out, can anyone shed any light on
this for me?

Many thanks
David

MY GOD Euro Wasps!!!!!

MY GOD Euro Wasps!!!!!

Impossible - it stands for White Anglo Saxon Protestant. If they were
from Europe, they would be BEES - Bloody Eastern European Sh... This
is a joke by the way.
John
In limine sapientiae

Mary Fisher wrote:

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

Well said! This ridiculous obsession man has with killing or destroying
absolutely everything around him bugs me[1] no end, especially the poor
old insects.

In a similar vein, we had the luck to see a water vole in the garden
t'other week and I can imagine this creature gets a very hard time due
to his passing resemblance to a brown rat.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[1] Pun intended

"Rob Griffiths" wrote in message
...

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps
stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not
frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many
people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?

No, that's a mere 'local' response. Only the site round the sting is
affected. In a general (anaphylactic) response the whole body is affected,
blood pressure drops dangerously, there can be fainting, vomiting, voiding,
all over body rash and other symptoms - not always all at the same time or
even at all. It's a true allergy (the symptoms are not specific to insect
stings but can be caused by other allergens) and isn't all that common.
Swelling is NOT an allergic response, it's quite normal and while it can be
painful is not fatal. Anaphylaxis, without treatment, can be. The only
treatment is an injection of adrenaline.

Anyway - if I see a wasp - I walk slowly away

If a wasp were intent on stinging you that wouldn't do any good, it can fly
faster than you can walk :-)

... however ... every
other summer or so I get stung ... before I've even seen the bloody
thing (I've been stung twice while asleep!).

That's actually more common than you'd think. If you can see the wasp you
take care not to touch it. If you don't see it and accidentally touch it it
will defend itself by stinging, its only weapon. It can't reason with you
and ask you to remove whatever part of you is touching it!

Seems like a vendetta to me

Not at all. Well, there does seem to be a vendetta - against the wasps!

... they seem to 'know'

They don't. And the fact that you only get stung every other summer or so,
when there are millions of wasps flying around - shows that the others
aren't affected by you.

- I'd slaughter the lot of 'em - sorry Mary!

Well, I'd like to slaughter all cats and non-working dogs and very many
humans come to that :-)

It's a similar irrational response to something we don't like.

Mary

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Rob Griffiths wrote:

I've been stung by wasps and I sometimes react very badly to wasps
stings, I
have a general reaction - an anaphylactic response - but I'm not
frightened
by wasps. There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many
people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

Hmmm - not sure about that! I react badly to wasp stings - ie if I'm
stung on the arm it will swell to twice the size (oi - keep the smutty
laughter down in the cheap seats!), is that an anaphylactic response?

No, you can tell an anaphylactic response, as you don't tend to use
usenet much afterwards.

LOL! It does tend to take you out of the world for a while ...

Mary

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:21:04 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"John Laird" wrote in message
.. .

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living
space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their nest is paper
and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp excavates holes in the ground to
nest - would you like that?

I know where you are coming from (having followed your beekeeping posts),
but am still struggling to get my head around the idea that a function of my
house is to provide additional accommodation for unwanted guests ;-)

Presumably wasps managed just fine before we erected nice cosy brick huts
for them, at a guess by nesting in tree trunks ? There are plenty of trees
in my garden...

--
Too much month at the end of the money.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"John Laird" wrote in message
...

They are more than welcome to nest in the garden, then. In my living
space,
they come under the category of unwanted pests !

They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their nest is
paper
and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp excavates holes in the ground
to
nest - would you like that?

I know where you are coming from (having followed your beekeeping posts),
but am still struggling to get my head around the idea that a function of
my
house is to provide additional accommodation for unwanted guests ;-)

Your house is absolutely full of wht you'd call unwanted guests if you knew
about them :-)

Come to that - so is your body, even your skin, no matter how clean you
think you are :-)))

Presumably wasps managed just fine before we erected nice cosy brick huts
for them, at a guess by nesting in tree trunks ?

Any suitably sheltered place will do. They often build nests in bird boxes
and garden sheds and wooden boxes - Man is responsible for their loss of
natural habitat as he is for the same for many species.

Birds and bumble bees are two obvious types of animal whose numbers are
diminishing because of this.

There are plenty of trees
in my garden...

With hollow trunks?

Believe me, I understand people's fear of wasps. I'd like to think that I
can persuade people to take a more sympathetic attitude to the richness of
the natural world - while we still have it - and by understanding more to
lose their fear. I know that I can do that when I'm face to face with
people, on usenet it's more difficult.

Mary

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:01:35 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"John Laird" wrote in message
.. .

I know where you are coming from (having followed your beekeeping posts),
but am still struggling to get my head around the idea that a function of
my
house is to provide additional accommodation for unwanted guests ;-)

Your house is absolutely full of wht you'd call unwanted guests if you knew
about them :-)

Come to that - so is your body, even your skin, no matter how clean you
think you are :-)))

Yes, yes, but no-one in my house freaks out at the sight of the odd fly,
spider or dust mite. (Wasps don't freak me out either, but I have other
people to think about.)

Presumably wasps managed just fine before we erected nice cosy brick huts
for them, at a guess by nesting in tree trunks ?

Any suitably sheltered place will do. They often build nests in bird boxes
and garden sheds and wooden boxes - Man is responsible for their loss of
natural habitat as he is for the same for many species.

Birds and bumble bees are two obvious types of animal whose numbers are
diminishing because of this.

There are plenty of trees
in my garden...

With hollow trunks?

Cor blimey, they are picky. If the alternative in house-free areas (or
times) is only hollow tree trunks, then they must have been struggling. So
we must be providing absolutely loads of free, suitable accommodation now.
I'm not going to worry about trying to exclude my property from the millions
of others that are available.

Believe me, I understand people's fear of wasps. I'd like to think that I
can persuade people to take a more sympathetic attitude to the richness of
the natural world - while we still have it - and by understanding more to
lose their fear. I know that I can do that when I'm face to face with
people, on usenet it's more difficult.

Over the years we've had many wasp nests, mostly in the attic. I could
leave them alone if they left me alone, but if one nest happens to be close
to a window, then that window can't be opened or the place fills up (and by
filling up I mean several wasps a day getting in and not going out again).
A friend also suffered an infestation in his house when they managed to chew
their way through some plasterwork from his loft (where the nest was) into
his bedroom, and apparently most of the colony then headed that way. At
times like that, the diversity of mother nature takes second place to self
preservation !

Fwiw, I've never been stung by a bee or a wasp of any kind. A hornet did
get me once - vicious nasty little b*****d. The most seemingly aggressive
of common pests are wasps. I've yet to be bothered by any kind of bee, and
I did once live nearby someone who had a couple of hives and saw many of
them in the garden. I'm still unconvinced wasps aren't the Millwall FC
hooligan end of the insect kingdom, and the fact that there are so many of
them making trouble and spoiling for a fight at the end of the summer might
suggest their numbers aren't in terminal decline.

Anyway, each to his own.

--
I'm an analog man in a digital world.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"John Laird" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:01:35 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

wrote:

"John Laird" wrote in message
.. .

I know where you are coming from (having followed your beekeeping
posts),
but am still struggling to get my head around the idea that a function
of
my
house is to provide additional accommodation for unwanted guests ;-)

Your house is absolutely full of what you'd call unwanted guests if you
knew
about them :-)

Come to that - so is your body, even your skin, no matter how clean you
think you are :-)))

Yes, yes, but no-one in my house freaks out at the sight of the odd fly,
spider or dust mite.

The things I meant can't easily be seen ...

(Wasps don't freak me out either, but I have other
people to think about.)

LOL! That's what everyone says, "I'm not worried but I have grandchildren,
dogs, babies, neighbours' children come, there's my old auntie ... " There
are so many big brave people in the world who say they aren't freaked out by
wasps. Oddly enough, the grandchildren, dogs, babies, neighbours' children
and old aunties never complain ...

I went for a pre-surgical assessment yesterday and the nurse asked me about
the bees in her lawn. She too was worried for her children (who had never
been stung by the bees and never will be). When I told her the natural
history of the bees she, being an intelligent woman, promised that she
wouldn't even think of getting rid of them. I've told her to come round and
duff me up if anything I told her proved to be wrong.

Presumably wasps managed just fine before we erected nice cosy brick
huts
for them, at a guess by nesting in tree trunks ?

Any suitably sheltered place will do. They often build nests in bird
boxes
and garden sheds and wooden boxes - Man is responsible for their loss of
natural habitat as he is for the same for many species.

Birds and bumble bees are two obvious types of animal whose numbers are
diminishing because of this.

There are plenty of trees
in my garden...

With hollow trunks?

Cor blimey, they are picky.

No, as I've said repeatedly, any suitably sheltered place will do. You're
the one who said there were plenty of trees in your garden, I was merely
pointing out that trees per se don't always afford a suitably sheltered
habitat.

If the alternative in house-free areas (or
times) is only hollow tree trunks, then they must have been struggling.

No, read what I said.

So
we must be providing absolutely loads of free, suitable accommodation now.
I'm not going to worry about trying to exclude my property from the
millions
of others that are available.

You can't exclude your property. They are extremely intelligent creatures
and know what they're looking for. It's not a house, it's a suitably
sheltered habitat. If a house satisfies their needs so be it. Man himself
has cleared away natural habitats to build his own unnecessarily complicated
dwellings and in doing so provide suitable habitats for other creatures.

Believe me, I understand people's fear of wasps. I'd like to think that I
can persuade people to take a more sympathetic attitude to the richness
of
the natural world - while we still have it - and by understanding more to
lose their fear. I know that I can do that when I'm face to face with
people, on usenet it's more difficult.

Over the years we've had many wasp nests, mostly in the attic.

A very suitable place.

I could
leave them alone if they left me alone, but if one nest happens to be
close
to a window, then that window can't be opened or the place fills up (and
by
filling up I mean several wasps a day getting in and not going out again).

Several? Good Heavens! But why can't you open a window? The wasps don't
paint it shut, surely? No - that's a Man thing ...

A friend also suffered an infestation in his house when they managed to
chew
their way through some plasterwork from his loft (where the nest was) into
his bedroom,

I don't believe that. They don't chew plasterwork. The plasterwork was
probably already damaged and hadn't been noticed. Of course, if your friend
had watched closely enough to see wasps chewing the plasterwork I'll eat my
words. But if he was confident enough to get close enough to see that
happening he was obviously sensible enough not to be worried by the wasps.

and apparently most of the colony then headed that way.

Apparently.

Most of the colony. Hmm.


At
times like that, the diversity of mother nature takes second place to self
preservation !

Did your friend die then?

Fwiw, I've never been stung by a bee or a wasp of any kind.

er - so what's your problem with wasps?

A hornet did
get me once - vicious nasty little b*****d.

As a matter of fact hornets are less likely to sting than wasps (same family
though). I don't know why that is. And they are quite rare in this country
and I've never heard of them building in houses. That only means that I've
never heard of it, not that they never have

The most seemingly aggressive
of common pests are wasps.

Ah! You're learning - 'seemingly' is the crunch word.

I've yet to be bothered by any kind of bee,

You're very unlikely to be unless you're a beekeeper. Bees (and wasps come
to that) are more likely to defend their home and the next generation from
an invasion of their nest - by a beekeeper for instance. Wouldn't you defend
yourself from a gigantic who removed the cover of your house and might
threaten your children?

and
I did once live nearby someone who had a couple of hives and saw many of
them in the garden.

Along with the wasps. They have more important things to do than harass you.
You, apparently, haven't more important things to do than to harass the
wasps :-)

I'm still unconvinced wasps aren't the Millwall FC
hooligan end of the insect kingdom, and the fact that there are so many of
them making trouble and spoiling for a fight at the end of the summer
might
suggest their numbers aren't in terminal decline.

There's no point in my saying any more that they're not making trouble and
spoiling for a fight. They're not football hooligans - those are men.

Anyway, each to his own.

Yes, I'd like to think that you might consider my words but I doubt that you
will. However, there are others who might be reading this who perhaps might.

And it's very interesting that someone who's never been stung by a wasp is
so aggressive towards them :-)))))))))

--
Mary

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Well said! This ridiculous obsession man has with killing or
destroying
absolutely everything around him bugs me[1] no end, especially the
poor
old insects.

I tend to agree but I draw the line at cherry black fly - if I see one I
squash it.

Neil

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:46:07 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

And it's very interesting that someone who's never been stung by a wasp is
so aggressive towards them :-)))))))))

Point out where I have indicated I am "so" aggressive, please ? Or is this
one of those "I am a man, therefore I am responsible for everything nasty in
the world" things... Just because I don't lay out the red carpet for every
yellow-and-black buzzy thing doesn't make me an exterminator.

:-)

--
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Well said! This ridiculous obsession man has with killing or
destroying
absolutely everything around him bugs me[1] no end, especially the
poor
old insects.

I tend to agree but I draw the line at cherry black fly - if I see one I
squash it.

I wouldn't know one if I saw one :-)

Gooseberry sawfly is the bane of my garden. They strip the leaves off the
bush but I still get a sufficient and perfectly formed crop of fruit. I've
tried feeding the catterpillars to my hens but they turn up their beaks at
them.

And although they're not insects I don't warm to slugs ... I reckon that I
still get the lion's share of my crops though. They're not worth worrying
about.

Mary

Neil

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

I draw the line at cherry black fly - if I see one I
squash it.

I wouldn't know one if I saw one :-)

Gooseberry sawfly is the bane of my garden. They strip the leaves off
the
bush but I still get a sufficient and perfectly formed crop of fruit.
I've
tried feeding the catterpillars to my hens but they turn up their
beaks at
them.

I've just discovered I have a gooseberry bush in my garden - it's not
exactly in rude health, having spent at least 3, and more likely 6 years
inside a holly. I expect to see it decimated now it can see the light of
day...


And although they're not insects I don't warm to slugs ... I reckon
that I
still get the lion's share of my crops though. They're not worth
worrying
about.

Slugs have not been a problem for me so far. Even the hostas are
normally unaffected.


Mary

Neil

In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:

And it's very interesting that someone who's never been stung by a wasp is
so aggressive towards them :-)))))))))

It is sad to note that the attitude is fairly common. "I don't like that
insect/rodent/animal/whatever, so instead of leaving it be, I'll kill it."

I am also saddened when people invite mice and rats into their dwellings
with "littering" lifestyles and then inflict suffering and death on the
poor creatures when they take up the invitation.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"John Laird" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:46:07 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

wrote:

And it's very interesting that someone who's never been stung by a wasp
is
so aggressive towards them :-)))))))))

Point out where I have indicated I am "so" aggressive, please ?

No, that would mean that I'd have to re-read your posts and I can't be
bothered. But I don't say things lightly, there will have been evidence for
my words.

Or is this
one of those "I am a man, therefore I am responsible for everything nasty
in
the world" things...

No, I like men and have quite a few in my life. Mankind, however, is a
different matter and in that case Man embraces Woman. I'm certainly not a
feminist and I have no political agenda about men.

Just because I don't lay out the red carpet for every
yellow-and-black buzzy thing doesn't make me an exterminator.

No-one mentioned red carpets but you did give the impression that you would
prefer to be rid of your "unwanted pests". A pest, by definition, is
unwanted and something which is a pest is often prone to be exterminated.

There are even local authority departments which exist for this purpose ...

Mary

:-)

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand on a
'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

on the floor of the upstairs landing (whence it had arrived from
a nest in the attic via an opening where 'dozy' dad had installed a loft
ladder but not yet fitted a new trapdoor :-). That wasp _was_ a problem
for
him, and vicariously for the rest of us.

Of course it was. but wasps only sting as a reaction to a threat.

Sorry, I can't agree with you there.

One tried to sting me last year. I was sitting down quietly and if it
hadn't been for my uncharacteristicly fast reaction, I would have
received quite a nasty sting on my shoulder. As it was, I brushed it
away just as it started to sting me

--
geoff

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand
on a 'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

(I put the word in quotes because I just knew you'd challenge my use of it!
:-)

I meant that it (and several others) tended to fly around slowly[1] - indeed
they almost fell rather than flew out of the attic, and wander around slowly
on the floor or windowsill or other surfaces. (I daresay the wasps were
doing this entirely purposefully and I'm simply anthropomorphically
projecting soporificity onto them :-)


[1] compared to the speed of British Standard (or even the new European
standard :-) wasps.


....

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their
own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.
... There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

I generally agree with you. When the kids have tried to swat wasps I've
suggested that if they leave them alone the wasps are likely to leave them
alone (and vice versa :-).


Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the road
to hell.)


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife, the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zEVjc.643$7S2.250@newsfe1-win...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
newsyAjc.12$ZW1.9@newsfe5-gui. ... wasps are not really a problem

A couple of years ago our youngest (then a bit under 3) laid his hand
on a 'dozy' wasp

OK - what makes you think it was dozy?

(I put the word in quotes because I just knew you'd challenge my use of
it!
:-)

I meant that it (and several others) tended to fly around slowly[1] -
indeed
they almost fell rather than flew out of the attic, and wander around
slowly
on the floor or windowsill or other surfaces. (I daresay the wasps were
doing this entirely purposefully and I'm simply anthropomorphically
projecting soporificity onto them :-)

They don't sleep.


[1] compared to the speed of British Standard (or even the new European
standard :-) wasps.

...

You have to think about wasps - and other creatures - as beings in their
own
right and part of the larger natural order. Humans are more dangerous to
wasps than wasps are to humans.
... There are millions of them flying about in summer, how many people
are stung by them? Those who are have been perceived by the insect as a
threat, they are defending themselves, wasps don't sting 'for badness'.

I generally agree with you. When the kids have tried to swat wasps I've
suggested that if they leave them alone the wasps are likely to leave them
alone (and vice versa :-).


Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans
are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's
a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the
road
to hell.)


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a
three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife,
the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but
maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zEVjc.643$7S2.250@newsfe1-


Sorry for hitting send too quickly ...

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans
are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's
a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the
road
to hell.)

The word 'good' has several shades of meaning.

A school of thought is just that - A school of thought. There are others.


We must be rational about these things. And please don't say that a
three
year old can't understand about these things, of course he can't. But he
can
learn from others' attitudes.

I wonder if you've read "The Continuum Concept"? Small children playing
freely but safely around sharp tools and weapons and dangerous wildlife,
the
overprotected child drowning in the swimming pool at the first unguarded
opportunity? (It doesn't sound as if you need to read it actually, but
maybe
it'll be a help to other parents as I think it was to me.)

I've never even heard of it. When I had children (five in seven years) I was
too busy to read child rearing handbooks - and of course in my arrogance I
don't suppose I'd have thought I needed them. Why should an author know more
about how to bring up my children than I did?

Our children did fall and hurt themselves in other ways but not fatally.
They learned by advice and experience what to avoid. One was bitten by a dog
which had just whelped, the daughter had no idea of the defensive nature of
an animal in that condition but she did after it had been explained that it
wasn't a 'naughty' dog. I don't remember any of them ever being stung.

Two damaged themselves very foolishly and one seriously when they were in
the early teens, by fire. It was their own fault and they felt very guilty
about it, now they are both ambassadors for fire prevention and avoiding
such accidents. They couldn't have learned that from any book.


He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

Mary

In message , Mary
Fisher writes


Our children did fall and hurt themselves in other ways but not fatally.
They learned by advice and experience what to avoid. One was bitten by a dog
which had just whelped, the daughter had no idea of the defensive nature of
an animal in that condition but she did after it had been explained that it
wasn't a 'naughty' dog. I don't remember any of them ever being stung.

Two damaged themselves very foolishly and one seriously when they were in
the early teens, by fire. It was their own fault and they felt very guilty
about it, now they are both ambassadors for fire prevention and avoiding
such accidents. They couldn't have learned that from any book.

Quite right, If you don't confront the unknown, you don't know how to
handle it when it imposes itself upon you
(did I say that ?)



He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

All journeys require a road of some sort. No road, no journey, no
journey no progress


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary
Fisher writes


Quite right, If you don't confront the unknown, you don't know how to
handle it when it imposes itself upon you
(did I say that ?)

looks round

Well, there's no-one else hereabouts ...

Mary



He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

All journeys require a road of some sort. No road, no journey, no
journey no progress

That's why I've never made much progress in life.

Poor deprived old dear!

Mary


--
geoff

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary
Fisher writes


Quite right, If you don't confront the unknown, you don't know how to
handle it when it imposes itself upon you
(did I say that ?)

looks round

Well, there's no-one else hereabouts ...

Mary



He can't learn about the dangers of road transport either - but I bet
he's
had quite a few car journeys, each of which is a potential danger.

It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

All journeys require a road of some sort. No road, no journey, no
journey no progress

That's why I've never made much progress in life.

Poor deprived old dear!


A Stanna lift would at least help you upstairs and allow you to view new
horizons
--
geoff

Mary Fisher wrote:
They need a very sheltered place to nest. Remember that their
nest is paper and vulnerable to weather. One type of wasp
excavates holes in the ground to nest - would you like that?

Yes, mush easier to deal with, just put in a teaspoon of cymag
and a dribble of water. You can even use petrol which will gas
them too, but it's not as good.


J.B.

Speaking of wasps, look what I found in my shed:

(About 120K each)
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0807.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0808.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0809.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0810.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0811.JPG

The "umberella" bit is about as big as a 2p piece.

Luckily for me, the wasp was also there chewing and spitting out my shed
into the interesting shape, so I bashed it with my lump hammer, and it's
back end fell off (the wasp, not the lump hammer).

Nipped that one in the bud - could have walked in there and been chased out
by a cloud of the buggers!

Bob

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net...
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:zEVjc.643$7S2.250@newsfe1-


Sorry for hitting send too quickly ...

Man, in my opinion, is the only creature which attacks for no good
reason.

Isn't that tending to inverted specieism (sp?) (or misanthropy)? Humans
are
part of nature too, and our behaviour is as explicible as that of other
animals if you delve deep enough into people's motivations and mental and
physiological processes. In other words there are always reasons, though
whether these are 'good' depends on your point of view and values. There's
a
school of though that we all act out of good intentions however perversely
these manifest themselves in actions. (I don't suppose this view is
particularly novel given the age of the adage about the pavement of the
road
to hell.)

The word 'good' has several shades of meaning.

A school of thought is just that - A school of thought. There are others.

I appreciate that, and that mine is a sort of religious (or
non-religious) position. Personally I prefer it to the go[o]d versus
[d]evil view, but then as an atheist I would, wouldn't I? :-)


It's not the journeys that are particulaly dangerous about roads!

If you don't use the roads to make journeys you don't get involved in
accidents.

These new-fangled hautomobiles haven't reached your part of t'sticks
yet, then? ;-)

Round here they seem to take particular delight in swatting any kids
who stray into the road whether making journeys or not. Put a bit of
damper on their play (when I were a lad ... play in streets ... safe
as houses ... etc etc).

Those spoilsports in pinstripes and bowler hats tried to put a damper
on this sport by restricting the speed charabancs are supposed to be
allowed to travel so that swatting the sprogs doesn't always kill them
outright, but a lot of them are getting round this by fitting metal
bars to the front of their wagons at optimum kid-swatting height.
Apparently it usually does the trick.

Bob Smith wrote:
Speaking of wasps, look what I found in my shed:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0807.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0808.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0809.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0810.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0811.JPG

The "umberella" bit is about as big as a 2p piece.

Luckily for me, the wasp was also there chewing and spitting out
my shed into the interesting shape, so I bashed it with my lump
hammer, and it's back end fell off (the wasp, not the lump hammer).

Nipped that one in the bud - could have walked in there and been
chased out by a cloud of the buggers!

Yes, but a lump hammer to kill a wasp even though this was a queen,
& a bit bigger than "normal". How do you crack your nuts, with a
steam-hammer??

Nice substantial looking shed BTW - is it made partly from
recycled pallets?


J.B.

"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message
news:N2EHGHFTAKP3B2B4KDLVAHMHMDCBN2FXLQFRH0II@zipl ip.com...
Bob Smith wrote:
Speaking of wasps, look what I found in my shed:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0807.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0808.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0809.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0810.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/spikewill...t/DSCF0811.JPG

You're fortunate to hve seen one in such an early state. Usually there re
seven cells when they're found like that. And was it really brown?

Good pictures.

Mary