This is the most frequently asked question of all beekeepers!

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs. When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make seeds.

Other flowers, mainly grasses and some trees, don't make nectar, they rely
on the wind to blow their very light pollen to receptive female flowers.
These are the pollens which cause hay fever. The pollen grains are very
small and light. Insect pollinated plant pollen grains are large and
slightly sticky and don't fly in the wind.

In this case we're talking about honeybees, not just any old insect,
although some other insects can play a part in pollination. Honey bees will
also collect just pollen deliberately, take it back to the nest where it is
stored ready to be fed to the larvae, who are growing so quickly that they
need the protein of which the pollen is formed.

Honey bees also collect and store nectar. That's the carbohydrate - energy -
food for adult bees (a little is also fed to larvae but they need protein
more). They store it in large amounts while ever the weather is warm enough
to allow flowers to produce nectar. When the weather is cold or it's
raining and the bees can't fly or if it's so hot and dry that the flowers
don't produce nectar the bees have stored reserves to live on.

Other insects collect different types of carbohydrate and protein and don't
store either for any length of time. Honeybee stores, if they're not used,
can last for years, so one generation of bees (the workers live on average
about six weeks) are storing food for future generations. In that way they'
re capitalists. In other ways they're socialists but that's a different
matter. Honeybees are unique in this way of life.

Honeybees will collect honey while nectar is being produced and they usually
collect more than they need to see them through hard times, it's this
surplus which the beekeeper takes. If the bees don't collect enough nectar
for their needs the beekeeper will feed them sugar syrup so that they don't
starve.

All nectar comprises sugar (about 20%) and water (about 80%). The sugars are
different kinds. There are other elements of nectar, which differ between
plant types; this is why different floral sources of honey produce different
colours and flavours. Ling heather honey has about 3% of protein in it which
makes it thixotropic, uniquely to northern European honeys, but manuka honey
from the Antipodes has a similar property.

This is all relevant, promise.

At 80% water, nectar will ferment. The honeybee worker 'sucks' up the nectar
with her tongue, it's more of a pumping action. The tongue is in five parts,
which move against each other to transfer the nectar to a simple internal
organ, which stores the nectar until she returns to the nest. Once there she
dumps the nectar into a cell in the comb. That can be any cell, as long as
it doesn't contain pollen or brood.

Another bee comes along and 'sucks' up some of the nectar and spreads the
parts of her tongue to form a film of nectar. A bit like making bubbles in
the bath. At the same time other bees are standing around the hive and
especially near the entrance, fanning their wings. In this way warm,
moisture-laden air - the moisture has evaporated from the exposed nectar -
is expelled from the hive and cool, drier air is drawn in.

This process of taking out the nectar, exposing it to the air and putting it
back in cells continues until by some unknown process the bees are satisfied
that its moisture content has been reduced to about 20% of the original
nectar. We call that honey. The cells with the evaporated high sugar
concentrated contents are sealed with a cap of beeswax (another fascinating
subject, don't get me started) so that it's waterproof. Honey is
hygroscopic, if it is left open to the air it will eventually absorb water
and ferment. With its sealing cap of wax it's impervious to moisture unless
it's damaged. The bees will chomp through the capping when they need the
honey.

Back to the different sugar components in nectar - now honey. They are
complex but are, simply, glucose and sucrose, dextrose and laevulose. If the
proportion of dextrose is more than that of laevulose, which is normal in
most honeys, the honey will granulate. The exception is acacia honey, true
acacia honey, with no contamination from other honeys, will stay clear all
the time.

Some honeys have very large percentages of dextrose, they granulate very
quickly. Oilseed rape honey will granulate in the comb in the hive in a
matter of days. It's very important for the beekeeper to extract those combs
as soon as the cells are sealed if s/he wants to be able to extract the
liquid honey easily.

Such honeys grow crystals very quickly. Because they grow quickly they are
tiny - the next-door crystals are growing quickly too and there's no room
for them to grow large. The result is a very smooth honey.

Honeys with a lower proportion of dextrose grow crystals more slowly, those
with the lowest amount of dextrose grow so very slowly that there's time for
the crystals to grow very large - like gravel in some cases.

Most honeys need foci to start crystals growing, these can be tiny air
bubbles, microscopic bits of dust or other particles or other crystals which
are introduced by the beekeeper. This last is called 'seeding'. Ideally an
amount of very finely granulated honey - such as oil seed rape honey which
although set and probably very hard is also very smooth, like butter - is
introduced into the honey to be granulated or 'set'. It is stirred in until
finely distributed and then left. The crystals which grow will take on the
character of the seed, that is they will be very small and produce a soft
set, smooth honey. That's the ideal.

If the beekeeper doesn't have any such seeding material and wants to have
some controlled set honey s/he can agitate the newly extracted honey. This
isn't done, as someone once suggested, by jumping out at a jar and making a
face at it but by physically moving the honey. There are various ways but a
few years ago an innovative chap developed a large spiral screw, a bit like
the best corkscrews, with a long stem which fitted into a drill chuck. This
is where I came in on the ng. A low speed turning of the screw in a tank of
honey would start granulation in about ten minutes in about 60 lbs of run
honey. The honey would then be run off, while still soft enough into
plastic, lidded storage buckets or jars.

This process explains why 'run' honey bought in jars or squeezy plastic
bears granulates after being used a few times. The frequent insertion of a
knife or spoon into a jar, or the squeezing of the soft bottle, means that
the contained honey is agitated and eventually will granulate.


Any granulated honey can be restored to run honey by warming the jar gently
in a pan of hot water to re-dissolve the crystals. Conversely, to prevent
granulation in stored honey it can be put in the deep freeze, this slows
down the growth of crystals.

If the beekeeper is tardy in extracting the honey from the comb for any
reason s/he has to melt the whole lot in a warm oven in a suitable container
until it's all liquid, let the lot cool and lift off the cake of wax from
the top.

The business of extracting honey hasn't changed except in detail for about
150 years, since the movable frame hive (the 'modern' wooden box) was
developed. Before that time comb had to be cut from the insides of hives
made from various materials, broken and filtered through fine cloth.

Now the sealed honeycomb is built by the bees in wooden frames which hang in
the hive and can be removed. The 'cappings' are removed with a knife and
saved to be melted and filtered. The honey-dripping frames are dropped
vertically into the purpose-built slots inside a drum. The slots are
attached to a central pivot which, when turned by a hand or electrically
powered cranked and usually geared device, throws out drops of honey
towards the internal walls of the drum. They collect at the bottom and are
drawn off from time to time by a 'honey gate' - a sort of tap - on the
outside.

By the way, the bees are encouraged to build comb in the frames by the
beekeeper, who fits a sheet of embossed beeswax into the wooden frame.
S/he does this not because the bees need it, they've been building perfect
comb for 300,000,000 years without our help (Man has been around for about
500,000 years) but so that we can move combs around within and between
hives. We want to be in control of insects!

Now I'm sure that I've forgotten some things and that others haven't been
explained well enough. If you have any questions about this or any other
aspect of honeybees, honey or wax, please say so.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs. When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make seeds.

snip super essay about bee-keeping

Thanks Mary, that's great! I've always fancied keeping bees, now I feel
I know loads more about the subject.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than
to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs.
When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make
seeds.

snip super essay about bee-keeping

Thanks Mary, that's great! I've always fancied keeping bees, now I feel
I know loads more about the subject.

You need to know far, far more ... that was just SOME of the stuff about
honey. But thanks anyway. If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

And if you're anywhere within striking distance, go to the National
Agriculture Centre (the Royal Agricultural Showground) on 24 April, at
Stoneleigh in Warwickshire. That's when the British Beekeepers' Spring
Convention is held and everyone who is anyone will be there. It's a huge
trade show with lectures. I'll be there with the biggest bee book stand in
the world [it's not mine :-) ] and would love to meet anyone from here. Even
non-beekeepers have a gret time.

Mary

--
Grunff

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:55:48 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote:

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs. When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make seeds.

snip super essay about bee-keeping

Thanks Mary, that's great! I've always fancied keeping bees, now I feel
I know loads more about the subject.

Agreed. Excellent indeed.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:55:48 +0100, Grunff wrote:


Agreed.

No questions?

:-(

That means you know it all :-)

Mary




.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Mary Fisher wrote:

If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

It is definitely something I'd like to do, but probably in 5 years' time
or so. We still have huge amounts of work to do on the house, stables,
garage, fields etc before we have time for proper hobbies. Wine making
is another on my list. As is building another trike.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you
get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

It is definitely something I'd like to do, but probably in 5 years' time
or so. We still have huge amounts of work to do on the house, stables,
garage, fields etc before we have time for proper hobbies.

Oh, beekeeping isn't a hobby. It's a terminal disease.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

Oh, beekeeping isn't a hobby. It's a terminal disease.

? Do go on...

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Oh, beekeeping isn't a hobby. It's a terminal disease.

? Do go on...

I'm off to bed. I'll explain later :-)

Mary

--
Grunff

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:21:35 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:55:48 +0100, Grunff wrote:


Agreed.

No questions?

:-(

That means you know it all :-)

Mary


Never. Thanks very much for this. I'll read through it some more
and I am sure that there will be more questions.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

This is the most frequently asked question of all beekeepers!

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs.
When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make
seeds.
[snip]
Haven't read all that, which was interesting... The uses you can put the
product to are limited aren't they?
Making mead with it being the most useful one...

In message , Grunff
writes
Mary Fisher wrote:

If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

It is definitely something I'd like to do, but probably in 5 years'
time or so. We still have huge amounts of work to do on the house,
stables, garage, fields etc before we have time for proper hobbies.
Wine making is another on my list. As is building another trike.

Not forgetting the hours of endless fun to be had when they, for
example, swarm and take up residence in next door's chimney - as
happened to someone I know in another NG last year
--
geoff

Mary Fisher wrote

This is the most frequently asked question of all beekeepers!

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

snip excellent fascinating article

Now I'm sure that I've forgotten some things and that others haven't been
explained well enough. If you have any questions about this or any other
aspect of honeybees, honey or wax, please say so.

Mary

I have a question Mary

I once had a girlfriend whose dad was a beekeeper and he used to let me help him
tend the hives sometimes. I don't remember much about it now, except that it
was my job to puff the smoke generator thingy, and it seemed to me that the bees
in one of the hives were much more aggressive and became angry sooner than the
others. I will always remember my trepidation when we approached this
particular hive and removed the lid. Was this my imagination or do different
hives really have different "temperaments" (if that's the right word)?

Peter

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:11:16 +0100, "Peter Taylor"
wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote

This is the most frequently asked question of all beekeepers!

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

snip excellent fascinating article

Now I'm sure that I've forgotten some things and that others haven't been
explained well enough. If you have any questions about this or any other
aspect of honeybees, honey or wax, please say so.

Mary

I have a question Mary

Me too ...

So, a friend runs his own tomato nursery and buys in boxes of bees to
pollinate the plants?

My brother I L used to have a tomato nursery and never did this
(summat about self pollination or spraying them with water or summat?)

Are there different breeds g of tomato that require different
processes?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. My bee a phobic daughter spent an hour in the green house with me
the other day whist I was wiring up some new extension phones for him
.... I think she'd forgotten she shared the place with over 100 bees
by the end .. ;-)

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Grunff
writes
Mary Fisher wrote:

If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you
get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

It is definitely something I'd like to do, but probably in 5 years'
time or so. We still have huge amounts of work to do on the house,
stables, garage, fields etc before we have time for proper hobbies.
Wine making is another on my list. As is building another trike.

Not forgetting the hours of endless fun to be had when they, for
example, swarm and take up residence in next door's chimney - as
happened to someone I know in another NG last year

Swarming can be prevented and in 25 years I've only been called to one in a
chimney. It wasn't a swarm from our hives. And retrieving it was challenging
and memorable, quite a lot of fun really. In fact swarm stories are legion,
deserve a ng of their own!

Mary
--
geoff

"BillV" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

This is the most frequently asked question of all beekeepers!

Here is then, some of the answer, without the hard words.

Some flowers produce nectar, which seems to have no other function than
to
attract insects, which accidentally collect pollen on their body hairs.
When
the insects go to other flowers they accidentally transfer the pollen to
that flower's receptive organ, the pollen fertilises the ova to make
seeds.
[snip]
Haven't read all that, which was interesting... The uses you can put the
product to are limited aren't they?

No.

Making mead with it being the most useful one...

That's not particularly useful, it can be enjoyable and you seem to be
thinking that honey is the only product of the hive.

Mary.

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...

I have a question Mary

I once had a girlfriend whose dad was a beekeeper and he used to let me
help him
tend the hives sometimes. I don't remember much about it now, except that
it
was my job to puff the smoke generator thingy, and it seemed to me that
the bees
in one of the hives were much more aggressive and became angry sooner than
the
others. I will always remember my trepidation when we approached this
particular hive and removed the lid. Was this my imagination or do
different
hives really have different "temperaments" (if that's the right word)?

They do seem to. Some beekeepers say that it can be a function of the
'strain' of the bee. I don't know if properly controlled studies have been
done on this aspect, it's very difficult to guarantee identical genetic
inheritance.

Some beekeepers say that it's a function of weather. I'd agree with this in
that if the weather isn't good for nectar production the bees are definitely
tetchy. My mentor used to say that women at home with nothing to do are to
be treated with respect ...

The queen has a very complex funtion in the hive, if there is a problem with
the queen - not laying well, getting old and not producing the chemical
which maintains colony cohesion* the bees are very 'defensive' (I'd rather
not use the term 'aggressive', they don't go looking for trouble but react
to outside stimulants). If a queen is removed from a colony the bees are
disoriented and defensive within a few minutes.

There are other things which can go wrong inside the, again, very complex
social structure of the colony and can make it display this defense symptom.
There are external factors too, some chemicals (such as agricultural
sprays), while not necessarily killing the bees, disquiet the colony.

Bees, like many insects, respond defensively to vibrations. If the beekeeper
is clumsy and bangs the hive the bees will often respond. Some beekeepers
think that this is the very way to manage their colonies, that you hve to
show them who's master. I suspect they're the ones who beat their dogs into
submission ...

I've had the experience of a tetchy colony in our apiary, an apparently
similar colony to all the others, has gone into defensive mode. Sometimes
it's temporary, at other times the only way to deal with it, short of
destroying the colony which no-one likes to do is to re-queen, that can have
a dramatic effect.

But to re-queen you have to go into the colony, disturb it even more and
find the old queen - one insect in, say, 50,000. To do that when you're
frightened and they don't want you in there is daunting ...

Another thing my mentor used to say is that "bees do nothing invariably".
Many beekeepers don't believe this, they think they know all about their
charges. They're wrong, no-one knows everything despite more research having
been done over centuries on bees than any other animal except Man. That's
one of the fascinations I suppose, we can never be in absolute control of
honeybees.

This won't have helped you at all, sorry! There's no one answer to your
question and from this distance in time and space I couldn't even begin to
suggest a reason.

Mary

* the beekeeping world is unimaginative in its Naming of Parts. The chemical
which the queen exudes from her skin is licked off and transferred orally
round every bee in the hive and is absolutely essential to maintaining a
'happy family'. I think its chemical name is something like
di-hydro-methyl-oxy-furfuraldehyde but I might have got a bit of it wrong.
It doesn't really matter, few know it as that. Its official name is 'queen
substance'.


Peter

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:11:16 +0100, "Peter Taylor"

I have a question Mary

Me too ...

So, a friend runs his own tomato nursery and buys in boxes of bees to
pollinate the plants?

Those are bumble bees, not honey bees. Honey bees don't thrive in glass
houses, it has been tried but you need very small colonies and they can't
collect enough pollen (and even less nectar) to maintain their population.

My brother I L used to have a tomato nursery and never did this
(summat about self pollination or spraying them with water or summat?)

I rely on self pollination for my tomatoes too because a) I only have a few
plants and b) I'm too idle to go round doing mucky things with camel hair
paintbrushes or even spraying or shaking.

There's no doubt though that in big commercial situations insect pollination
is more efficient than other methods. You get heavier yields and perfect
fruit rather than some mis-shapen ones. It's also expensive - swings and
roundabouts. Saves on labour though ...

Are there different breeds g of tomato that require different
processes?

I don't know. I don't think so.

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. My bee a phobic daughter spent an hour in the green house with me
the other day whist I was wiring up some new extension phones for him
... I think she'd forgotten she shared the place with over 100 bees
by the end .. ;-)

Bumble bees are delightful, they're like flying teddy bears and there's no
reason to be frightened of them. Even honey bees and wasps aren't the devils
they're often assumed to be but they are more defensive than bumble bees.

When a bumble bee feels threatened it leans over and raises its middle leg
as if to say please don't hurt me ... they very, very rarely sting. We've
moved bumble bee nests in our hands and often pick up chilled bumble bees,
blow on them gently in our cupped hands and give them a little drop of sugar
water so that they have the energy to return to their nests. I've never been
stung by a bumble bee. If you ARE stung by a bumble bee you really deserve
it. Try to get your daughter to watch them and see how beautiful and gentle
they are.

They also have an audible warning of approach, from now on the air could be
filled with the sound of entomological motor bikes - if, sadly, the bumble
bee population wasn't verging on extinction by loss of habitat and, I'm
sorry to say, ignorance.

Mary

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:15:39 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


In this case we're talking about honeybees, not just any old insect,

Maybe we should start a "Honey, not for us", thread to provide some
balance for the "any old insects" you harshly discount?

I mean, what about the bee's less 'goody goody' brother, the wasp?
They provide endless entertainment for folk indoors with rulers and
rolled up newspapers as they bat them into each others faces and
aren't fussy about their homes like your bees. In fact they can be
easily caught by making a 'wasp trap' consisting of a net curtian and
a window.

They also do a great job of keeping tramps out of the bins and (for me
anyway) great entertainment watching kids loose their ice creams as
they try to run away from them ;-)

"Not just any old insect" indeed ...!

Yours buzzingly .. ;-)

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:15:39 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


In this case we're talking about honeybees, not just any old insect,

Maybe we should start a "Honey, not for us", thread to provide some
balance for the "any old insects" you harshly discount?

I'm sorry if it came across as harsh, it wasn't intended to be so. I'm
fascinated by all insects, I just happen to know more about social ones than
others. There are far, far, more of those others than social ones.

I mean, what about the bee's less 'goody goody' brother, the wasp?

If you mean the social wasps - the yellow and black striped ones - they are
wonderful creatures, more intelligent and evolutionary advanced than any
kind of bee. They also have a fascinating natural history, do a huge amount
of good (in human terms) than many other insects and there's no reason for
them to be persecuted.

Incidentally, the 'brother' wasps can't sting they don't have the equipment,
I think you're worried about the females. The workers :-)

It's a delight to have a wasp nest at eye level where I can watch it and
show it to the children. On the rare occasion I've not been able to persuade
someone to keep a wasps' nest I've brought it home, put it in the deep
freeze to kill the inhabitants humanely and later carefully cut it apart to
show the wonderful structure to people.

Mary

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:26:55 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Swarming can be prevented and in 25 years I've only been called to one in a
chimney. It wasn't a swarm from our hives. And retrieving it was challenging
and memorable, quite a lot of fun really. In fact swarm stories are legion,
deserve a ng of their own!


So how? Smoke up the chimney?



Mary
--
geoff


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:35:11 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Incidentally, the 'brother' wasps can't sting they don't have the equipment,
I think you're worried about the females. The workers :-)

These seem to be the common threads throughout Nature.

(SWMBO made me say that)



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:35:11 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Incidentally, the 'brother' wasps can't sting they don't have the
equipment,
I think you're worried about the females. The workers :-)

These seem to be the common threads throughout Nature.

(SWMBO made me say that)

It wouldn't have occurred to me that you could have thought it up by
yourself ...

Mary



.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:26:55 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Swarming can be prevented and in 25 years I've only been called to one in
a
chimney. It wasn't a swarm from our hives. And retrieving it was
challenging
and memorable, quite a lot of fun really. In fact swarm stories are
legion,
deserve a ng of their own!


So how? Smoke up the chimney?

A swarm is a wonderful phenomenon and swarming must be seen as reproduction
of the species. The old queen and about half the original colony fly off to
find a new site and found a new colony. The rest of the bees and a potential
queen (she will emerge from her cell the next day usually) stay in the
original hive and continue as though nothing has happened.

A swarm is looking for a cavity of the right size to set up the new colony.
It would preferably have some kind of cover which is why chimneys are pretty
rare sites for swarms to land.

If you provide a better 'ole they'll go to it.

Bees walk upwards.

If you put a container of a desirable size with other desirable qualities
over the swarm, wherever it is, the bees will walk up into that container.
It can be a straw skep, a small wooden box, a whisky carton, almost anything
as long as it's dark, big enough and there's something for the bees to cling
to. And which is convenient for the beekeeper too, especially if using a
ladder. The ideal for most circumstances, we found, was a straw skep (the
old-fashioned beehive) which had had bees living in it. The legacy of past
bees seems to be irresistable to honeybees.

You don't need to smoke them, you don't need to find the queen. You DO need
time, an understanding of bee behaviour and a plan of action.

Mary



Mary
--
geoff


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:40:17 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:




A swarm is a wonderful phenomenon and swarming must be seen as reproduction
of the species. The old queen and about half the original colony fly off to
find a new site and found a new colony. The rest of the bees and a potential
queen (she will emerge from her cell the next day usually) stay in the
original hive and continue as though nothing has happened.

That's interesting. I would have expected the old queen to stay behind
and the new one to go off with her friends.

Are there territorial battles over who gets to be queen?


A swarm is looking for a cavity of the right size to set up the new colony.
It would preferably have some kind of cover which is why chimneys are pretty
rare sites for swarms to land.

If you provide a better 'ole they'll go to it.

Bees walk upwards.

If you put a container of a desirable size with other desirable qualities
over the swarm, wherever it is, the bees will walk up into that container.
It can be a straw skep, a small wooden box, a whisky carton, almost anything
as long as it's dark, big enough and there's something for the bees to cling
to. And which is convenient for the beekeeper too, especially if using a
ladder. The ideal for most circumstances, we found, was a straw skep (the
old-fashioned beehive) which had had bees living in it. The legacy of past
bees seems to be irresistable to honeybees.

You don't need to smoke them, you don't need to find the queen. You DO need
time, an understanding of bee behaviour and a plan of action.


So you were on top of the house with a container?



Mary



Mary
--
geoff


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:26:57 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:35:11 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Incidentally, the 'brother' wasps can't sting they don't have the
equipment,
I think you're worried about the females. The workers :-)

These seem to be the common threads throughout Nature.

(SWMBO made me say that)

It wouldn't have occurred to me that you could have thought it up by
yourself ...


Wouldn't be allowed, Mary.

BTW. You mentioned that you have a web site about your various
activities. Where is that?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Mary
Fisher writes

You need to know far, far more ... that was just SOME of the stuff about
honey. But thanks anyway. If you really do want to think about keeping bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

By far the best way to start. Someone turns up with a swarm, you borrow
a couple of boxes and a few frames and you're on your way. If you
thought about it, you'd never do it.

Joining a local bee-keepers' society is essential though - put two
beekeepers together and you have three opinions, but many of them have
been doing it for donkey's years and know all the tricks - most of which
involve leaving the bees to get on with it. Bees have been doing it
themselves for 60 million years, so its quite difficult to put them off.

J.
--
John Rouse

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
A swarm is a wonderful phenomenon and swarming must be seen as
reproduction
of the species. The old queen and about half the original colony fly off
to
find a new site and found a new colony. The rest of the bees and a
potential
queen (she will emerge from her cell the next day usually) stay in the
original hive and continue as though nothing has happened.

That's interesting. I would have expected the old queen to stay behind
and the new one to go off with her friends.

No, because of the answer to your next question.

Are there territorial battles over who gets to be queen?

Not exactly territorial. There's one queen per hive except in very special
circumstances. The queen is not a ruler at all, there's an historical reason
for the name. Shortly after the new queen is born she flies from the hive
and mates with several drones (male bees) who die, it is said, with a smile
on their faces. Their spermatozoa are stored in an organ in the queen's body
and don't race to find eggs as they do in mammals and other animals.

When the queen lays an egg in a cell in the comb she chooses whether or not
to release a sperm onto the egg. If the egg is thus fertilised it will
become a female bee. If it is not fertilised it will become a drone, a male
bee.

Then something miraculous can happen. The very same fertilised egg can
become a worker bee, with all sorts of organs which a queen doesn't and
without some she does. A different insect, in fact. Or that fertilised eggs
can turn into a queen, a larger insect without some of the organs the
workers have and with some they don't. The difference is accomplished simply
by feeding. Young worker bees exude a substance from glands in their heads
and it is fed exclusively to those eggs they decide to rear as queens -
very few. This substance is something you'll have heard of: 'royal jelly'.
It's not royal and it's not a jelly, it's a white thick liquid with a horrid
bitter, acidic flavour and is no use to Man or other animals no matter what
you're sold - sorry, told. It's sole purpose is to make that egg, which if
it were fed honey and pollen, into a queen bee.

Despite her large size the queen only spends nine days in her cell (workers
spend about fifteen days in theirs). The workers care for the 'queen cells'
assiduously, unless they (somehow) know that the contents are defective, in
which case they'll destroy the cell and contents.

A few days before the new queen (or queens) are due to emerge the old queen
stops laying, it's thought so that she'll be lighter and be able to fly -
remember that she's only flown once before in her life, on her mating
flight. She's heavier than the workers despite having more or less the same
length of wings. The day before the first new queen is about to emerge the
old queen flies off with, as I said, about half the workers. That's the
swarm.

A swarm in flight is a wonderful sight and sound, a great dark cloud,
seemingly without direction. If you have the privilege of seeing and hearing
one just stand and marvel at one of Nature's fantastic phenomena. There's no
need to be frightened, the bees have nothing to defend (brood) and they've
tanked up with honey in case they might not have another meal for some time
so it's physically difficult for them to get into a position to sting (they
have to curl their abdomen under, it's like touching your toes after
Christmas dinner). The swarm settles on a convenient branch or other site,
it's though when the queen gives up. 'Scouts' leave the cluster and search
for a suitable cavity, when they find one the message is transmitted to the
swarm which then flies off in more or less a straight line and quickly to
the new home.

Back at the ranch - hive - everything carries on as though nothing has
happened. Even though the queen isn't there there seems to be colony
cohesion because of the presence of the queen cells.

Next day the first virgin queen emerges. Then another, and another. They
spend some time walking around the comb but if one meets another there's a
fight to the death. The fittest one survives to fly off and mate and it all
starts over again.

Occasionally workers will rear another queen because the old one is failing.
In that case the young one can mate and lay with no problems in the hive,
even on the same comb. The old queen is likely to die in that situation by
the action of the workers. It's another mystery how they do it. It's called
'balling' the queen. A number of workers surround the queen, all round, like
a ball - about the size of a large marble. We know that she isn't stung to
death and it's unlikely that she suffocates but she dies. It's thought that
the temperature inside the ball might be raised so much that the queen can't
survive.

Sometimes the beekeeper wants to re-queen a colony, the best way is to
remove the old one and introduce a new one. If that's difficult there's
another way, to introduce a new queen and let her find the old one and kill
her, but it's not 100% successful. Sometimes the keeper wants to unite two
small colonies. A good way of doing that is to put the colony with the
younger queen over the one with the older one. You can't just mix colonies
of honeybees.

A modern hive is made up of four sides boxes which stand on a floorboard
with a roof over the lot. So any of the boxes can be put over any other. If
a sheet of newspaper is laid on top of one box and another box (with the
young queen) is put over that both colonies will chew through it - they
don't like foreign bodies in the hive. Gradually they mix and become one
colony. When the new queen meets the old one there's a fight to the death
and the younger one usually wins.


So you were on top of the house with a container?

Yes, it was an old house, belonging to an architect. We got a ladder, lifted
the capping stone off the chimney and lowered it with a rope to the floor.
Then we placed a skep over the chimney opening and left it until the
following evening. We went back up the ladder, lifted the skep which was
full of bees and wrapped a large piece of sacking over the mouth, fastened
round with an elastic luggage band. Carefully we carried the skep down,
replaced the stone and took the swarm home.

Easy! Fun!! Exciting!!!

:-)

Mary


Mary



Mary
--
geoff


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

BTW. You mentioned that you have a web site about your various
activities. Where is that?


www.candlemaker.org.uk

Mary

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:35:11 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


In this case we're talking about honeybees, not just any old insect,

Maybe we should start a "Honey, not for us", thread to provide some
balance for the "any old insects" you harshly discount?

I'm sorry if it came across as harsh, it wasn't intended to be so.

That's ok Mary. I was only trying to defend those that can't speak.
;-)

I'm
fascinated by all insects, I just happen to know more about social ones than
others. There are far, far, more of those others than social ones.

And what about those (non social) suicidal ants that must be made of
magnesium or summat? Whenever I tried to look at them in the summer
with a magnifying glass they would spontaneously combust?

All the best ..

T i m (just had a shandy ..)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:36:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



BTW. You mentioned that you have a web site about your various
activities. Where is that?


www.candlemaker.org.uk

Mary


Very nice site, Mary, and an interesting set of products.

Have you thought about adding some pictures?




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

Have you thought about adding some pictures?

I'd definitely go along with that. While I appreciate the "keep it
simple, keep it fast" sentiment, sometimes it's nice to see what's on offer.

--
Grunff

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net...
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:15:39 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

snip

If you mean the social wasps - the yellow and black striped ones - they are
wonderful creatures, more intelligent and evolutionary advanced than any
kind of bee. They also have a fascinating natural history, do a huge amount
of good (in human terms) than many other insects and there's no reason for
them to be persecuted.

Incidentally, the 'brother' wasps can't sting they don't have the equipment,
I think you're worried about the females. The workers :-)

It's a delight to have a wasp nest at eye level where I can watch it and
show it to the children. On the rare occasion I've not been able to persuade
someone to keep a wasps' nest I've brought it home, put it in the deep
freeze to kill the inhabitants humanely and later carefully cut it apart to
show the wonderful structure to people.

Mary

Another beekeeeper joining on this one. Can't fault anything you have
said, Mary. My only quibble is your enthusiasm for wasps which, while
I am told do a lot of good, I've never actually seen it, but what I
have seen is the damage that wasps can do to a hive in the autumn.
They are stronger than bees and can sting continuously whereas the bee
can only sting the once leaving part of its abdomen with the sting to
carry on pumping the venom into you - hence bees are somewhat less
enthusiastic to sting you than wasps are. But wasps will rob out a
weaker hive very quickly in the autumn if steps aren't taken to
protect it.

Where abouts are you - I'm just west of Edinburgh. As you talk of an
apiary, I take it that you have a significant number of hives; I think
in my enthusiastic youth I got up to 8 at one stage but 3 or 4 is
quite enough now.

Out of interest just how did you get bees out of a chimney - I faced
this once and ended up using greenhouse smoke bombs to drive them out
as I couldn't safely get to the chimney itself.

The only disaster I've had with swarms was having re-hived one, it
then decided to flit again but did so as another hive swarmed so the 2
combined and went across the road into the neighbour's house -
unfortunately they had just moved in and the bees had found a cavity
high in the stone wall. The local authority had to called in to
exterminate them - I wasn't there at that time but would have been
interested to see how the guy did it as the access was very difficult.
Relations with those neighbours never really took off !!.

Rob

"Rob Graham" wrote in message



Another beekeeeper joining on this one. Can't fault anything you have
said, Mary. My only quibble is your enthusiasm for wasps which, while
I am told do a lot of good, I've never actually seen it,

I've seen them take huge numbers of what Man calls 'pests'.

but what I
have seen is the damage that wasps can do to a hive in the autumn.

So have I. To my own hives.

They are stronger than bees and can sting continuously whereas the bee
can only sting the once leaving part of its abdomen with the sting to
carry on pumping the venom into you - hence bees are somewhat less
enthusiastic to sting you than wasps are.

- er - that assumes that bees know that they're going to lose their sting
mechanism and therefore die when they sting. I don't subscribe to that
theory.

But wasps will rob out a
weaker hive very quickly in the autumn if steps aren't taken to
protect it.

Yes - but a weak tree will fall to a strong wind. It could be called
Nature's culling ... will the weak colony survive without help through the
winter?

Last week I dismantled equipment which was occupied by a swarm last July.
the colony had died, I found a small cluster which obviously couldn't travel
across the comb to access the large quantities of honey. It was, I'm sorry
to say, convenient for me that the bees died but it could be said that if
they were strong enough to survive they would have done. There was one wasp
in the pile, dead. That's meaningless!

Where abouts are you -

Inner city Leeds. I'm just west of Edinburgh.

As you talk of an
apiary, I take it that you have a significant number of hives; I think
in my enthusiastic youth I got up to 8 at one stage but 3 or 4 is
quite enough now.

No, I don't think we ever had more than fifteen but more than two would have
been too many to keep in our garden with unsympathetic neighbours. A friend
who has an organic goat farm wanted bees on her land and invited us to put
them there. It was idyllic. But I've developed arthritis and because
sometimes my fingers are too weak to turn the page of a magazine I know that
it would be dangerous for me to handle frames. I sold or gave away almost
all my equipment and some of my books, the bees themselves went to an
enthusiastic and intelligent man I met on a newsgroup.

I've seen too many old beekeepers neglect their bees through infirmity, it
does no-one any good (including the bees) and I was determined that it
wouldn't happen to me.

The above mentioned swarm went into a pile of boxes left for cleaning while
we were away. They'd been taped but the bees were determined. You can
imagine the potential mess inside. As it happened there was some fabulous
comb honey and I have some dripped honey too which is delicious. But it will
definitely be the last, the frames will be used as kindling for my bread
oven and the boxes used to grow potatoes.

Out of interest just how did you get bees out of a chimney - I faced
this once and ended up using greenhouse smoke bombs to drive them out
as I couldn't safely get to the chimney itself.

Story elsewhere.

The only disaster I've had with swarms was having re-hived one, it
then decided to flit again but did so as another hive swarmed so the 2
combined and went across the road into the neighbour's house -
unfortunately they had just moved in and the bees had found a cavity
high in the stone wall. The local authority had to called in to
exterminate them - I wasn't there at that time but would have been
interested to see how the guy did it as the access was very difficult.
Relations with those neighbours never really took off !!.

I'm always sorry about killing bees. It might have been possible to get them
out with a one-way escape and a small nucleus with queen and brood next to
the wall. It does take a lot of time though, we've done it once.

There are some difficult places and we have some great stories - but all
beekeepers do!

Mary

Rob

"John Rouse" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher writes

You need to know far, far more ... that was just SOME of the stuff about
honey. But thanks anyway. If you really do want to think about keeping
bees
get in touch with me, I probably know people who'll be able to help you
get
started. You shouldn't jump in without lots of consideration.

By far the best way to start. Someone turns up with a swarm, you borrow
a couple of boxes and a few frames and you're on your way. If you
thought about it, you'd never do it.

I disagree. I think that to be a responsible beekeeper you need to know at
least the basics before you start. Honeybees are animals and need good
husbandry like all stock.

Joining a local bee-keepers' society is essential though

I agree. And attend as many lectures, conferences and courses as you can.

- put two
beekeepers together and you have three opinions, but many of them have
been doing it for donkey's years and know all the tricks

Oh no they don't. They just think they do.

- most of which
involve leaving the bees to get on with it. Bees have been doing it
themselves for 60 million years,

Longer ...

so its quite difficult to put them off.

But it's easy for bees not to thrive in the artificial situation we put
them into. If we want to manage them - or any animal or process - we should
do it with the best knoweldge possible.

Mary

J.
--
John Rouse

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

Very nice site, Mary, and an interesting set of products.

Have you thought about adding some pictures?

Often. But there's no real need. It's a specialised market, not a site which
is of any interest to people who don't know what the stuff is all about,
those who do know what it's about know what things look like :-)

I'm very happy to send e-pictures to anyone at any time. What would you like
to see?

:-)

Mary

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

Have you thought about adding some pictures?

I'd definitely go along with that. While I appreciate the "keep it
simple, keep it fast" sentiment, sometimes it's nice to see what's on
offer.

I doubt that you'd want any of it though, what's the point in cluttering it
just for the sake of aesthetics? Although I offer pictures and have almost
everything ready to send I'm very rarely asked - except, curiously, by
museums because they don't really know what they're talking about.

What pictures would you like to see? Nåhlbindning needles? Tablets? An inkle
loom? They're yours for the asking.

Mary

--
Grunff

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:41:41 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Have you thought about adding some pictures?

I'd definitely go along with that. While I appreciate the "keep it
simple, keep it fast" sentiment, sometimes it's nice to see what's
on offer.

aol
me to
/aol

A picture paints a thousand words.

And for web use they needn't slow things down, I use a nominal 320x240
image size for photographs on my website compressed so that each is
just over 20k. Even ones with lots of detail and thus hefty
compression to get the size down don't show it on screen.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Mary Fisher wrote:

I doubt that you'd want any of it though, what's the point in cluttering it
just for the sake of aesthetics? Although I offer pictures and have almost
everything ready to send I'm very rarely asked - except, curiously, by
museums because they don't really know what they're talking about.

I know exactly what you're saying, and agree in many ways. But people
are very visual - they like to look at pretty pics. A lump of wax next
to the description of the wax will work wonders.

Please trust me on this one - getting people to buy something from a
website (either online or by picking up the phone) is what I do for a
living. A few pics can really make a difference to people's perception
of the product and the supplier.


What pictures would you like to see? Nåhlbindning needles? Tablets? An inkle
loom? They're yours for the asking.

No idea what any of these things are, but I bet they're pretty!

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

I doubt that you'd want any of it though, what's the point in cluttering
it
just for the sake of aesthetics? Although I offer pictures and have
almost
everything ready to send I'm very rarely asked - except, curiously, by
museums because they don't really know what they're talking about.

I know exactly what you're saying, and agree in many ways. But people
are very visual - they like to look at pretty pics. A lump of wax next
to the description of the wax will work wonders.

Not when people know what the wax is like - the re-enactment world is very
small and most of the people know us and our products from coming to our
tent at events.

Please trust me on this one - getting people to buy something from a
website (either online or by picking up the phone) is what I do for a
living. A few pics can really make a difference to people's perception
of the product and the supplier.

Hmm, I think you're right too for most cases. But there's something you
don't reliase, which is that we don't WANT to be selling any more than we
do. I keep telling magazines who try to sell us advertising space that any
more would mean that we couldn't keep pace without giving up something else.
We're playing at it, it keeps us off the streets, that's all :-)


What pictures would you like to see? Nåhlbindning needles? Tablets? An
inkle
loom? They're yours for the asking.

No idea what any of these things are,

That's my point. The people who do want them do know exactly what they're
like. Those who might like to see them wouldn't know what to do with them!
We're not catering for the curious.

but I bet they're pretty!

Not really. They're functional, that's all. A nåhlbindning needle is simply
a fat bodkin made from bone - real bone. A tablet is a square piece of
plywood with a hole at each corner and one in the middle. An inkle loom is a
slab of timber with dowels sticking out of it. They're beautiful only in
that they work, like an S bend under a sink :-)))))))))))

Mary

--
Grunff