"Andy Hide" wrote in message
om...
I need to make holes in a single brick thick solid plastered wall to
run both 15mm and 22mm copper pipe.

Just using a hammer and chisel in the past has always resulted in a
huge hole plus lots of plaster dropping off the wall/cracks etc. These
holes are going to be seen so they need to be neat.

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to this?

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or
hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

3) What size bit would I need for above holes ? Previous posts
indicate you usually end up with a bigger hole than the bit you use
for the job. Do I need a core drill bit or just a standard drill bit ?

4) Previous posts indicate drilling a small pilot hole first and then
going in half way from both sides. Any improvement on this method ?

Any help much appreciated with this.

Andy.

I drilled through brick to take a 22mm gas pipe; I found a plastic water
pipe that was a fairly snug fit to the 22mm copper, but its external
diameter was something like 28mm ( can't remember - that gives a wall
thickness of about =3mm ). Now the problem was that I could only find a
maximum 25mm drill for my SDS ( at Wickes, about £20 ). Sure enough, the
drilled hole was a little bigger than 25mm but it wasn't 28mm.. Here comes
the bodge - I opened the hole up by letting the 25mm drill bash away at the
inside over multiple passes. It wasn't too hard to open it to 28mm+ but I
can't say I felt proud of my methodology!

I had trudged the DIY sheds looking for a thin-walled plastic pipe
with OD 25mm but was unable to find one, either in water pipe or electrical
trunking. If you can find a suitable plastic sleeve then you'll feel much
better about doing this job with a 25mm drill ( the largest I could source
from the DIY sheds ). I think you will certainly need an SDS drill. BTW a
conventional 25mm masonry drill works fine, though you might want to start
it off with a smaller drill just to stop the 25mm drill from skittering all
over the shop at first. The pilot hole idea sounds fine; I did not drill one
and spalled great flakes of brick off the exit face of the brick, so going
in from both sides via a pilot hole sounds good.

My SDS drill comes from Wickes, it cost £109 a couple of years back, but
I expect it's cheaper now. It has performed well, though I dropped it on its
handle from about 3 feet up after I first got it, and cracked the case (
replaced for free by Wickes ), so I wouldn't say it was the ultimate in
robust casings.

Andy.

I need to make holes in a single brick thick solid plastered wall to
run both 15mm and 22mm copper pipe.

Just using a hammer and chisel in the past has always resulted in a
huge hole plus lots of plaster dropping off the wall/cracks etc. These
holes are going to be seen so they need to be neat.

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to this?

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or
hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

3) What size bit would I need for above holes ? Previous posts
indicate you usually end up with a bigger hole than the bit you use
for the job. Do I need a core drill bit or just a standard drill bit ?

4) Previous posts indicate drilling a small pilot hole first and then
going in half way from both sides. Any improvement on this method ?

Any help much appreciated with this.

Andy.

Andy Hide wrote:

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

Can you still get plastic coated copper tube? I remember it in 15mm, not
sure about 22mm ...

In article ,
(Andy Hide) writes:
I need to make holes in a single brick thick solid plastered wall to
run both 15mm and 22mm copper pipe.

Just using a hammer and chisel in the past has always resulted in a
huge hole plus lots of plaster dropping off the wall/cracks etc. These
holes are going to be seen so they need to be neat.

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to this?

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

20mm plastic electrical conduit works well for 15mm.
I don't think I've ever needed to do 22mm.
32 or 40mm (can't remember which, probably 32mm) waste
pipe works well for 28mm copper pipe.

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or
hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

You would probably burn out the B&D drill. When you buy an SDS
drill, certainly for first time use, make sure it has a clutch.
Otherwise you'll likely end up in casulty with dislocated wrist,
or in and case of a friend of mine, having stiches in your chin.
SDS drills don't stop turning just because the bit jams in the
hole -- it's the drill body and parts of your body which start
going round instead if it's got no clutch.

Also, for use with a large heavy bit, I would suggest some
gloves. I use my gell padded cycling gloves which absorb some
of the vibration from the drill.

3) What size bit would I need for above holes ? Previous posts
indicate you usually end up with a bigger hole than the bit you use

20mm SDS bit works for 20mm electrical conduit IME. Yes, the
hole ends up slightly bigger, but otherwise you won't get the
conduit in. Vacuum out all the dust or you might get the conduit
jammed half way in.

for the job. Do I need a core drill bit or just a standard drill bit ?

Standard SDS will do for these sizes. For anything bigger than
20mm, I would suggest drilling the hole out with smaller bits
first.

4) Previous posts indicate drilling a small pilot hole first and then
going in half way from both sides. Any improvement on this method ?

In a 9" brick wall with a big drill, you can end up with a large
bit just pushing the rear brick right out rather than drilling
through it. You might avoid this by drilling through halfway from
each side, but you'll have to be careful making sure the hole is
straight enough to get the sleeving and pipe in, or you drill it
sufficiently bigger that this isn't an issue. You might also try
drilling progressively larger holes in a few goes, but I suspect
this increases the chance of the bit sticking on something.

You can hire larger SDS bits. They are normally for SDS max chucks,
and you'll need an adaptor to go into an SDS plus chuck, which is
normally free loan with the bit. Note that you'll need one adaptor
per bit, as you probably won't be able to separate it from the bit
afterwards -- it needs a special tool which the hire shop has.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andy Hide wrote:

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

Firstly does it need to be a plastic pipe sleeve? Or would Denso tape do
the trick? (Would need to be a propper sleeve for a gas pipe, but for
water just protecting the pipe from corrosion is enough. You could also
get away with unsleeved plastic barrier pipe for water if you wanted.

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or

Yes. Even a cheap one will give you a hole much quicker than you though
possible before.

hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

A top end drill like the Makita H2450 is typically under 120 quid and
well worth it...

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...hisel%20Drills

3) What size bit would I need for above holes ? Previous posts
indicate you usually end up with a bigger hole than the bit you use
for the job. Do I need a core drill bit or just a standard drill bit ?

You can get 15mm copper through a hole drilled with a 16mm SDS bit. A
25mm bit will do it for 22mm. If you want another sleeving pipe then you
will need correspondingly bigger holes.

Once you get to holes larger than about 25mm, you can get larger SDS
bits, but they start getting harder to find and more expensive. You may
find a core drill a cheaper option. If you are going to use a core drill
then get a SDS with at least 700W, and make sure it has a safety clutch
because core bits tend to snag from time to time. With the safety clutch
this is no more dramatic than reaching the torque limiter on a cordless
drill when putting in a screw. Without it you may find yourself flying
off a ladder or with a clearly defined outline of a drill handle on your
right gonad!

Many of the sub 30 quid SDS units omit the safety clutch. Having a good
speed controller is also worth having especially when using the drill
for chiselling (chisel mode is not present on all drills, so check for
this)

4) Previous posts indicate drilling a small pilot hole first and then
going in half way from both sides. Any improvement on this method ?

Not necessary - even a 25mm diameter 400mm long SDS bit will romp
through brickwork etc without any problem.

--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
Andy Hide wrote:

1) What size plastic pipe should I use to sleeve the 15mm and 22mm
copper pipe ? Can you get special pipe sleeves for the job ?

Firstly does it need to be a plastic pipe sleeve? Or would Denso tape
do the trick? (Would need to be a propper sleeve for a gas pipe, but
for water just protecting the pipe from corrosion is enough. You could
also get away with unsleeved plastic barrier pipe for water if you wanted.

Heat-shrink sleeving should do the job nicely. It's thick enough to
protect the pipe against the very mild fretting that might occur inside
the hole, but without hugely increasing the hole diameter. (Unless the
regs require some specific type of sleeve?)

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or

Yes. Even a cheap one will give you a hole much quicker than you though
possible before.

hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

A top end drill like the Makita H2450 is typically under 120 quid and
well worth it...

My old B&D and I just barely managed a double solid wall with a
brand-new 18mm bit, but we both ended up stinking hot and badly shaken.
Every action has an equal and opposite thingy, and a 22-25mm hole would
definitely have wrecked both of us.

SDS was a revelation! This might be just the right moment to invest in
an SDS drill, but do heed what people say about buying a drill that has
a rotary stop, hammer stop - and above all, a safety clutch. I
thoroughly agree about the Makita H2450, which has all of those. It's a
very nice piece of kit, and one of those tools that is a real pleasure
to use.

A few thoughts about pilot holes... Yes, an SDS drill probably will let
you blast straight through with a 25mm bit, but don't forget that your
final objective is to have that pipe coming out at exactly the right
location and angle. Going gently through with a 12mm bit gives you a lot
more control. When you move up to the full-size bit, it will go through
much more easily. However, it won't follow the pilot hole exactly. To
avoid a step inside the hole, the final bit needs to be long enough to
go well past half-way.



--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

if you are drilling large holes through brick / concrete a cheapo SDS drill will
do the job BUT if and when the drill bit bites, particularly with core bits, you
will wish you had bought/hired a decent quality drill with a clutch mechanism.

broken wrist bones are not uncommon, you have been warned


RT

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or
hiring a decent one?

Get an SDS drill. I have a couple of quite huge drill bits that will go
straight through even a thick brick wall. Don't sleeve copper with plastic.
Cut out the middle man and just stick plastic through the wall. No need for
copper at all. If you must run the pipework before/after in copper then it
is easy to swap between with a compression/pushfit joint.

Christian.

Andy Hide wrote:
I need to make holes in a single brick thick solid plastered wall to
run both 15mm and 22mm copper pipe.


snip

2) All I have at the moment is a 570W B&D Hammer drill. Is it worth
investing in a cheap SDS drill (e.g. £30 Ferm model in Screwfix) or
hiring a decent one? Can you get anything decent for around the £100
mark as it's likely to be used for other jobs in the future but I
don't want to spend £500.

snip

Others have addressed your main points, and I'll just confirm that for £100
you get a respectable SDS drill. There have been many discussion's here on
SDS drills, cheap and expensive, but I wouldn't bother Googling as you'll
have to wade through a fair pile of crap,as to get the decent info.

I've got the Bosch SDS that is available in Argos for about £90, and am very
happy with it. Spend the money and buy this or something similar ,and you
will soon find yourself wondering why you never got around to purchasing it
sooner.

cheers

David

[news] wrote:

if you are drilling large holes through brick / concrete a cheapo SDS drill will
do the job BUT if and when the drill bit bites, particularly with core bits, you
will wish you had bought/hired a decent quality drill with a clutch mechanism.

I thought that it what I said? ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/