Hi there; my wife has bought two new pendant lights to hang from the
ceiling. Both have instructions stating that the light must be earthed.
However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is no earth wire,
only the old black and red cabling. I know from previous experience that I
can buy non earth fittings (and have recently done so for a room upstairs),
but these two new lights are fairly ornate, and I don't know whether these
can be bought as non earth units. They were both bought from a local big DIY
store, but of course we have assembled the lights and thrown out the boxes!
Question is, would it be safe to wire them in anyway, or has anyone got any
decent suggestions - short of getting the house rewired :-). (The house was
built circa 1933 by the way).
Cheers
John

In article ,
"John Orrett" writes:
Hi there; my wife has bought two new pendant lights to hang from the
ceiling. Both have instructions stating that the light must be earthed.
However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is no earth wire,
only the old black and red cabling. I know from previous experience that I
can buy non earth fittings (and have recently done so for a room upstairs),
but these two new lights are fairly ornate, and I don't know whether these
can be bought as non earth units. They were both bought from a local big DIY
store, but of course we have assembled the lights and thrown out the boxes!
Question is, would it be safe to wire them in anyway, or has anyone got any
decent suggestions - short of getting the house rewired :-). (The house was
built circa 1933 by the way).

If there's really no earth in the cable, you need to get the lighting
circuit rewired, and until then, stick to double insulated lights and
plastic switch plates.

If the wiring is rubber, then you should get the rewiring done as a
matter of some urgency, and don't interfere with any of it until then
or you'll find the insulation all drops off.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Both have instructions stating that the light must be earthed.
However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is no earth wire,

Sorry, you won't like the answer.

Your light fittings will require an earth. If your lighting circuit doesn't
have one, then it will require rewiring or the fittings must not be used.
You need to determine the type of cable too. Lighting circuits have had
earths for many decades, so it indicates that the cable is very old. If it
is of a rubber construction, then it is very likely to be in a dangerous
condition and would indicate that a complete house rewire is in order.
Rubber wiring has a life expectancy of about 25 years but hasn't been in
general use for almost 50 years, so if discovered is generally flagged as
dangerous, even if apparently in good condition on inspection.

Do not disturb any rubber wiring that you find, as moving it may cause the
insulation to break down in a dangerous fashion, both for shock protection
and for fire risk.

If it is PVC, then it is probably safe, provided you keep to plastic
fittings. If you feel unable to investigate yourself, an electrician will be
delighted to perform a periodic safety check that will provide you with a
certificate detailing any shortcomings in your electrical system.

Christian.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"John Orrett" writes:
Hi there; my wife has bought two new pendant lights to hang from the
ceiling. Both have instructions stating that the light must be
earthed. However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is
no earth wire, only the old black and red cabling. I know from
previous experience that I can buy non earth fittings (and have
recently done so for a room upstairs), but these two new lights are
fairly ornate, and I don't know whether these can be bought as non
earth units. They were both bought from a local big DIY store, but
of course we have assembled the lights and thrown out the boxes!
Question is, would it be safe to wire them in anyway, or has anyone
got any decent suggestions - short of getting the house rewired :-).
(The house was built circa 1933 by the way).

If there's really no earth in the cable, you need to get the lighting
circuit rewired, and until then, stick to double insulated lights and
plastic switch plates.

If the wiring is rubber, then you should get the rewiring done as a
matter of some urgency, and don't interfere with any of it until then
or you'll find the insulation all drops off.

Hi Andrew; thanks for taking the time to reply. All light switch plates are
plastic, and the wiring is PVC, not rubber. However, as we have just
decorated and spent thousands on the house, I'm not sure if my wife will
take too kindly to being told this!
Regards
John

Christian McArdle wrote:
Both have instructions stating that the light must be earthed.
However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is no earth
wire,

Sorry, you won't like the answer.

Your light fittings will require an earth. If your lighting circuit
doesn't have one, then it will require rewiring or the fittings must
not be used. You need to determine the type of cable too. Lighting
circuits have had earths for many decades, so it indicates that the
cable is very old. If it is of a rubber construction, then it is very
likely to be in a dangerous condition and would indicate that a
complete house rewire is in order. Rubber wiring has a life
expectancy of about 25 years but hasn't been in general use for
almost 50 years, so if discovered is generally flagged as dangerous,
even if apparently in good condition on inspection.

Do not disturb any rubber wiring that you find, as moving it may
cause the insulation to break down in a dangerous fashion, both for
shock protection and for fire risk.

If it is PVC, then it is probably safe, provided you keep to plastic
fittings. If you feel unable to investigate yourself, an electrician
will be delighted to perform a periodic safety check that will
provide you with a certificate detailing any shortcomings in your
electrical system.

Christian.

Hi Christian; you are right - I didn't like the answer, but to be honest,
it's the answer I expected! As previously mentioned in the thread, the
wiring is PVC, and not rubber, so I suppose in a way it's not *too* bad. I
remember having a devil of a job finding double insulated bathroom lights,
so I suppose it will be a similar case for finding decorative ones.
Appreciate your help,
Regards
John

"John Orrett" wrote in message k...
Christian McArdle wrote:
Both have instructions stating that the light must be earthed.
However, when I have taken down the old fitting, there is no earth
wire,

Sorry, you won't like the answer.

Hi Christian; you are right - I didn't like the answer, but to be honest,
it's the answer I expected! As previously mentioned in the thread, the
wiring is PVC, and not rubber, so I suppose in a way it's not *too* bad. I
remember having a devil of a job finding double insulated bathroom lights,
so I suppose it will be a similar case for finding decorative ones.


Double insulated lights are no rarity. The Argos range with bulb
socket plugs on all need to be double insulated, as the 2 pin plug
doesnt provide any earth.

There just might be the option of threading an earth wire along side
the existing wiring to get you an earth, you might be able to lift a
floorboard or two above to get it in, maybe.

Although one physically can connect the fitting up as is, there would
always be a slight risk of electrocution, death, consequent
prosecution etc, so I dont recommend doing that.

Another option: changing the bulb sockets to take 12v bulbs and
running the fitting on a 12v transformer. Non-reflector type bulbs i
assume - you will likely need to reduce bulb wattages to stay within
the wiring capability of the fitting, or else rewire it.

Finally theres always the option of rewiring the fitting to make it
double insulated, if the wire will fit etc thats not hard, if you know
what youre doing.

So there are ways, but none of them elementary.


NT

N. Thornton wrote:

Finally theres always the option of rewiring the fitting to make it
double insulated, if the wire will fit etc thats not hard, if you know
what youre doing.

But then requires flash testing, under the provisions for 'site applied
insulation'.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote in message ...
N. Thornton wrote:

Finally theres always the option of rewiring the fitting to make it
double insulated, if the wire will fit etc thats not hard, if you know
what youre doing.

But then requires flash testing, under the provisions for 'site applied
insulation'.

not hard if you know what youre doing.

NT

N. Thornton wrote:

not hard if you know what youre doing.

And have (access to) the necessary equipment.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote in message ...
N. Thornton wrote:

not hard if you know what youre doing.

And have (access to) the necessary equipment.

i was thinking of making it, not difficult, but really its all pretty irrelevant.

NT