From today's Telegraph:

"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows. Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do." It seems that the magic of television
programmes such as Changing Rooms and DIY SOS has finally
worn off.

It has given way to a realisation that botched DIY can
knock thousands of pounds off the value of homes, which
it was meant to enhance.

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up. The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally. "We've seen many
people ruin their properties and knock off value by
`having a go' when they didn't know how."

A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

"People are increasingly taking on major projects like
extensions and loft conversions that require more than
a knowledge of DIY.

"Also, lifestyles and work patterns have changed, so
unless DIY is a real hobby, people don't want to spend
every weekend doing work themselves."

A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time. "People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and
realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../24/ndiy24.xml

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

I don't think it will be dying, just reducing in popularity.

I haven't got £4.5k a year spare to spend on tradesmen, so I'll be
carrying on regardless. I think the problem here is one of definition.
Some people think DIY is knocking in nails for a picture frame, others
think it's doing your own loft conversion. For me, it's about learning
new skills and recognising when I should DIY and when I should get
someone in. I will happily do tiling, plumbing, carpet laying, electricity
(until January obviously ;-) dry lining, decorating, woodwork and
other things, but I have some people who I trust to come in for gas,
plastering and structural advice.

In the end, people will choose the route which they consider gives them
the best value in terms of time, money and self-satisfaction.

Al Reynolds

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get through
the door for DIYers...


"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
From today's Telegraph:

"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows. Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do." It seems that the magic of television
programmes such as Changing Rooms and DIY SOS has finally
worn off.

It has given way to a realisation that botched DIY can
knock thousands of pounds off the value of homes, which
it was meant to enhance.

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up. The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally. "We've seen many
people ruin their properties and knock off value by
`having a go' when they didn't know how."

A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

"People are increasingly taking on major projects like
extensions and loft conversions that require more than
a knowledge of DIY.

"Also, lifestyles and work patterns have changed, so
unless DIY is a real hobby, people don't want to spend
every weekend doing work themselves."

A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time. "People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and
realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../24/ndiy24.xml

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get through
the door for DIYers...


"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
From today's Telegraph:

"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows. Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do." It seems that the magic of television
programmes such as Changing Rooms and DIY SOS has finally
worn off.

It has given way to a realisation that botched DIY can
knock thousands of pounds off the value of homes, which
it was meant to enhance.

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up. The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally. "We've seen many
people ruin their properties and knock off value by
`having a go' when they didn't know how."

A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

"People are increasingly taking on major projects like
extensions and loft conversions that require more than
a knowledge of DIY.

"Also, lifestyles and work patterns have changed, so
unless DIY is a real hobby, people don't want to spend
every weekend doing work themselves."

A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time. "People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and
realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../24/ndiy24.xml

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...
I don't think it will be dying, just reducing in popularity.

I haven't got £4.5k a year spare to spend on tradesmen, so I'll be
carrying on regardless. I think the problem here is one of definition.
Some people think DIY is knocking in nails for a picture frame, others
think it's doing your own loft conversion. For me, it's about learning
new skills and recognising when I should DIY and when I should get
someone in. I will happily do tiling, plumbing, carpet laying,
electricity
(until January obviously ;-) dry lining, decorating, woodwork and
other things, but I have some people who I trust to come in for gas,
plastering and structural advice.

In the end, people will choose the route which they consider gives them
the best value in terms of time, money and self-satisfaction.


Another consideration is the increasing cost of the *correct* tools to botch
a job properly. :+)

Well I must admit, I have spent 3 weekends doing a shower room, a
professional would probably of taken one (and I still am nowhere finishing)

If I had worked overtime for the weekends, I would of had more than enough
money to pay the guy and materials for a weekend.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
From today's Telegraph:

"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows. Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do." It seems that the magic of television
programmes such as Changing Rooms and DIY SOS has finally
worn off.

It has given way to a realisation that botched DIY can
knock thousands of pounds off the value of homes, which
it was meant to enhance.

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up. The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally. "We've seen many
people ruin their properties and knock off value by
`having a go' when they didn't know how."

A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

"People are increasingly taking on major projects like
extensions and loft conversions that require more than
a knowledge of DIY.

"Also, lifestyles and work patterns have changed, so
unless DIY is a real hobby, people don't want to spend
every weekend doing work themselves."

A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time. "People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and
realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../24/ndiy24.xml

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Nospam Pat" wrote in message
...




Another consideration is the increasing cost of the *correct* tools to
botch
a job properly. :+)

We've never had much 'disposable' income but I've always insisted that
Spouse has not skimped on tools. Hiis forty five years of accumulated tools
has served us and family and friends in good stead.

Mary

In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time. "People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and
realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

I'm willing to bet there are more examples of his member's work lowering
the value of a home than that of DIY efforts.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
From today's Telegraph:

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all.

I simply don't believe that. I'd be interested in knowing what question was
actually asked. Opinion polls are invariably funded and/or undertaken by
companies or organisations who have a vested interest in obtaining a
particular result, therefore the questions are phrased in such a way as to
elict the desired answer from as many interviewees as possible.

David

"diynovice" wrote in
:

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get
through the door for DIYers...


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

mike

"mike ring" wrote in message

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get
through the door for DIYers...


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

I thought they'd stopped that!

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

Mary

"Lobster" wrote in message
news:044pd.431$WQ6.215@newsfe6-

From today's Telegraph:

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all.

I simply don't believe that.

Nor do I.

I'd be interested in knowing what question was
actually asked. Opinion polls are invariably funded and/or undertaken by
companies or organisations who have a vested interest in obtaining a
particular result, therefore the questions are phrased in such a way as to
elict the desired answer from as many interviewees as possible.

Well said. I was going to but it means more coming from a man!

Mary

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:43:34 +0000, Nospam Pat wrote:



Another consideration is the increasing cost of the *correct* tools to botch
a job properly. :+)

Very good tools are about the same in real terms for the last few years if
they have not been falling slightly.
Just good enough (and even not quite good enough) tools have been falling
in price rapidly in recent times.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"mike ring" wrote in message

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get
through the door for DIYers...


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

I thought they'd stopped that!

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

SWMBO works for the local B & Q "Mini warehouse". They don't do the 10% deal
because the prices are lower (or so they claim) than other B & Q shops. The
other day she was asked where the cafe was because the couple wanted to
spend all day there!

--
Malc

"Malc" wrote in message
.uk...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"mike ring" wrote in message

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get
through the door for DIYers...


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

I thought they'd stopped that!

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

SWMBO works for the local B & Q "Mini warehouse". They don't do the 10%
deal
because the prices are lower (or so they claim) than other B & Q shops.
The
other day she was asked where the cafe was because the couple wanted to
spend all day there!

Are you saying that the 'miniwarehouse' prices are lower than those of the
regular B&Q shops?

Mary

--
Malc

Another consideration is the increasing cost of the *correct* tools to botch
a job properly. :+)

Oh no, they are getting cheaper and cheaper. You can now mess stuff up quicker
and far more drastically than when I started!

Are you saying that the 'miniwarehouse' prices are lower than those of
the regular B&Q shops?


not around here, 4*2 CLS at mini B&Q was £1.98 but at big B&Q £1.48

LJ

"


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

I thought they'd stopped that!

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

It seems to depend; the ones that went warehouse, or superstore did, ie
Chelmsford, but the common or garden sort, ie Basildon, it still worked
last Wednesday week.

mike

In message , Tony Bryer
writes
From today's Telegraph:

"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows. Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

And then they moan about getting ripped off

Really - have they nothing better to fill column inches with ?

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...

Really - have they nothing better to fill column inches with ?

No. That's why we don't buy newspapers.

Nor watch telly.

We diy - make our own news instead of living life vicariously :-)

Mary

--
geoff

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:04:18 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
strung together this:

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

Perhaps they just didn't want you there? ;-)
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:



A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

No doubt my local B&Q will see this as an ideal excuse to reduce the 2
normally occupied checkouts (max 6) down to one. And the same
checkouts have to be used for returns too.

MJ

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net...
"Malc" wrote in message
.uk...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"mike ring" wrote in message

They have not been down to my local B&Q on a weekend. You can't get
through the door for DIYers...


Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!

I thought they'd stopped that!

Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

SWMBO works for the local B & Q "Mini warehouse". They don't do the 10%
deal
because the prices are lower (or so they claim) than other B & Q shops.
The
other day she was asked where the cafe was because the couple wanted to
spend all day there!

Are you saying that the 'miniwarehouse' prices are lower than those of the
regular B&Q shops?

That's what they claimed when they opened it. As I don't go there very
often and even less to other B&Qs I can't give a definitive answer.
Personally I go to Wickes as it's cheaper even with my dis****
(TOBAGO) card.

--
Malc

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under building regs, a la Part P.....

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off



yes, you never know.,... this morning on R4 Today had a story on... deep
frying turkey! spooky....

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:20:37 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off

Mary


Talking of shifty looking characters, take a look at the picture at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4040607.stm





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:20:37 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

snip

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off

Mary


Talking of shifty looking characters, take a look at the picture at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4040607.stm




nah, he's just nervously making sure that there are no hands emerging from
dark corners for him to shake (his excuse, not my sentiments!)

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| "mike ring" wrote
| Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!
| I thought they'd stopped that!
| Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

They were probably being tactful, rather than accusing you of pretending to
be older than you obviously look in order to fraudulently obtain discount.

Owain

"RichardS" noone@invalid wrote in message
.. .


How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off



yes, you never know.,... this morning on R4 Today had a story on... deep
frying turkey! spooky....

Yes, I heard it too. But the chef obviously hadn't gleaned his information
from You Know Where because he hadn't injected it.

The Mars bar was mentioned though ...

Mary

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


Talking of shifty looking characters, take a look at the picture at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4040607.stm

He always was ...

Mary

"Owain" wrote in message
. ..
"Mary Fisher" wrote
| "mike ring" wrote
| Try it on Wednesday at my branch - 10% off for wrinklies!
| I thought they'd stopped that!
| Last time we went on a Wednesday they said they had :-(

They were probably being tactful, rather than accusing you of pretending
to
be older than you obviously look in order to fraudulently obtain discount.

Sppplooooorttttttttttttt!

Spouse has been called 'a little old man' since he was forty.

I was first given a concessionary rate four years ago - without asking.

I didn't know whether to be pleased or not. I went for pleased, being a Tyke
:-)

Mary

Owain

Tony Bryer wrote in message ...
From today's Telegraph:

typical news media, selecting and interpreting stuff to make it sound
like there's news.


"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

lets see what they offer to support this... nothing, it turns out.


Research out today claims that Britons are falling out of
love with DIY. Householders who are working longer hours
and who want a perfect home no longer have the time to do
their own plastering, papering or building, the research
shows.

people working long hours never did, obviously


Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.

Odd... I know few people who spend that much a year on getting in
building trades. Most certainly dont. You can get a lot done for that
kind of money, if youre not stupid about it.


Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Its the same as it always was. And as was already pointed out, just
what was the question they asked anyway? I can just imagine 'Would you
do any diy, such as rebuilding a garden wall, converting your loft,
reroofing and so on?' We need to not be too naive about angled surveys
and articles.

And who did they ask? A bunch of senior citizens in a pub at
lunchtime? Who knows.


Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do."

again, nothing new, most were never into diy. And his vested interest
is a tad obvious!


It seems that the magic of television
programmes such as Changing Rooms and DIY SOS has finally
worn off.

it is, yes, but nothing to do with the diy aspect, more to do with the
scary taste of those programs, their sometimes misleading advice, and
their known frequent failure to point out that some people should
really not try what theyre doing.


It has given way to a realisation that botched DIY can
knock thousands of pounds off the value of homes, which
it was meant to enhance.

no, we always knew that! no-one's so silly theyre only now realising
that.


DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment.

I find that very hard to believe. Would need to see the figures, and
see what it really says, and how they have or havent been massaged
into this.


About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

nothing new, we all know a small number of idiots get involved. 70 out
of 60 milion would make it one of the safest activities of course,
which rather contrasts with the supposed 200,000 injuries quoted
above. Maybe 200,000 includes a guess at the number of very trivial
things that are to be expected.


Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up.

no evidence. The thirst for diy tv programs is of course, but thats a
different thing.


The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally.

Blatant propaganda. One of the main problems with tradespeople is they
dont do it properly.


"We've seen many
people ruin their properties and knock off value by
`having a go' when they didn't know how."

stating the obvious, thats always occurred


A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

always been that way. Only now becoming known? I doubt it somehow!


"People are increasingly taking on major projects like
extensions and loft conversions that require more than
a knowledge of DIY.

the building boom has little to do with what diy people do.


"Also, lifestyles and work patterns have changed, so
unless DIY is a real hobby, people don't want to spend
every weekend doing work themselves."

again, always was the way, no news there


A spokesman for the National Federation of Builders said:
"Our members in the domestic market are seeing their
strongest order books for a long time.

yup, but why? Nothing to do with diy falling out of favour, more to do
with a construction boom, and increasing regulation putting a lot of
professionals out of work. Hence far more demand for builders.


"People are
interested in protecting the value of their homes and

obvious propaganda

realise that they can jeopardise this by taking matters
into their own hands."

ditto, thats nothing new.


In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

these cases are funny, but really have nothing to do with diy on any
remotely serious level. Pointing out the exceptional absurd case,
making no mention of the huge number who have successfully overhauled
and transformed houses, many with huge value gains, and giving nothing
but one sided propaganda... it hardly makes for an unbiased, well
reasoned or convincing article.


Whats the real reason for the article? Either the media had nothing to
say and got desperate to fill the space and sell copy, or someone in
the building business decided to try and have a pop at the pesky diy
thats always competing with their work.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...

typical news media, selecting and interpreting stuff to make it sound
like there's news.

Of course.


"The maxim "if you want something doing properly, do it
yourself" appears to be giving way to "if you want
something doing properly, pay a professional".

lets see what they offer to support this... nothing, it turns out.

They never do. It's not proper research.

Instead, they spend an average of £4,500 a year on
tradesmen, equivalent to almost a fifth of the average
salary. The tradesmen most likely to be called in are
builders and plasterers, followed by window fitters.


Almost nine out of 10 (89 per cent) of the 500 men aged
between 30 and 50 questioned said that they would not
attempt any DIY at all. Of those, 67 per cent said they
were not up to the job, and 27 per cent didn't have time
or were not interested.

Its the same as it always was. And as was already pointed out, just
what was the question they asked anyway? I can just imagine 'Would you
do any diy, such as rebuilding a garden wall, converting your loft,
reroofing and so on?' We need to not be too naive about angled surveys
and articles.

And who did they ask? A bunch of senior citizens in a pub at
lunchtime? Who knows.

Well, they said men between 30 and 50. They said, according to above, that
67% said they weren't up to the job and (perhaps a more honest?) 27% said
they ... were not interested. Snipping mine.

I take exception to the suggestion that senior citizens might answer like
that. In my experience they're more likely to diy than younger people. In my
experience they're not likely to spend £4,500 a year on tradesmen.


Andrew Boddie, the head of marketing at Standard Life
Bank, which commissioned the survey, said: "Whether it is
a simple decoration job or more serious structural work,
men across the UK are agree that DIY is no longer the
thing to do."

It's interesting that they didn't ask women. Or didn't report it if they
did.

again, nothing new, most were never into diy. And his vested interest
is a tad obvious!

Indeed.


DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment.

I find that very hard to believe. Would need to see the figures, and
see what it really says, and how they have or havent been massaged
into this.

Indeed.


About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

nothing new, we all know a small number of idiots get involved. 70 out
of 60 milion would make it one of the safest activities of course,
which rather contrasts with the supposed 200,000 injuries quoted
above. Maybe 200,000 includes a guess at the number of very trivial
things that are to be expected.

I always suspect figures such as 200,000. Why not 200,001?


Justin Ryan, co-presenter with Colin McAllister of the
BBC2 series Million Pound Property Experiment, said: "It
seems the thirst for DIY may be drying up.

Perhaps they've run out of ideas for the programme (I've no idea what it is)
or perhaps they need a slot for another programme designed for airheads.

The quest for
home perfection is growing, but this time owners are
doing it properly and professionally.

AHEM!

Blatant propaganda. One of the main problems with tradespeople is they
dont do it properly.

Indeed!


A spokesman for the DIY chain B&Q, which has between
three and five million customers a week, said: "It's
becoming well known in the industry that a lot of people
now are very time-conscious and rather than doing a job
themselves, they will call in professionals.

always been that way. Only now becoming known? I doubt it somehow!

So are they downsizing?


In August last year, Sylvester Nseowo was jailed for three
months for refusing to knock down a botched extension to
his five-bedroom house in Telford. He had used seven-foot
girders without any steel supports or concrete. And Chris
Pendery, from Loughborough, was fined £15,000 for criminal
damage to his housing association home in April after
sawing through the roof supports in his loft to make more
space."

these cases are funny, but really have nothing to do with diy on any
remotely serious level. Pointing out the exceptional absurd case,
making no mention of the huge number who have successfully overhauled
and transformed houses, many with huge value gains, and giving nothing
but one sided propaganda... it hardly makes for an unbiased, well
reasoned or convincing article.

Indeed.


Whats the real reason for the article? Either the media had nothing to
say and got desperate to fill the space and sell copy,

Isn't that always the case???

Mary

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:05:34 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:20:37 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off

Mary


Talking of shifty looking characters, take a look at the picture at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4040607.stm

Which one?

Phil

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:31:41 GMT, Phil Addison
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:05:34 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:20:37 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:20:02 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

From today's Telegraph:

DIY disasters can also lead to serious injuries. Figures
released by the Department of Trade and Industry in
August showed that 200,000 people a year are injured in
DIY accidents, 100,000 of them seriously enough to need
hospital treatment. About 70 people a year die in such
accidents, most of which are caused by "a simple lack of
knowledge", according to the DTI.

How long before they use this to justify bringing all DIY work under
building regs, a la Part P.....

SSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .......... you don't know who's
reading this .....

looks rounds and slinks off

Mary


Talking of shifty looking characters, take a look at the picture at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4040607.stm

Which one?

All of 'em.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl